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[AlphaSnake]

Everything you've sourced are comparisons of European diesels...for an American buyer. We don't care for diesels here. The BMW's diesel and 4-banger is known to be better than others. Also, I get the feeling you're sort of hinting at something in your post about biases...but I won't get into it with you. Instead, here is an awesome comparison review:

Jaguar XE-S vs BMW 335i M-Sport by Motor Trend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3YFTFLmcfk

And...

BMW 340i Review by Car and Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-bmw-340i-test-review

I'd be careful about some of the advice you get in this thread regarding cars and such. Some are highly impartial to specific brands, or the cars they own, and often throw facts, figures, data, professional reviews, reports etc to the wind, in order to champion pre determined preferences. It's almost like console fanboy wars at times. I've also learnt that when some use terms like "garbage" or "trash" to describe cars, engines, brands etc that are otherwise globally revered or commended, you're sometimes best just ignoring such opinions altogether, as it's often little more than unhelpful hyperbole.

Regarding the cars you've chosen, luckily they're very popular choices which have tonnes of comparisons already made. These are the top ones on Google and YouTube, nothing cherry picked, just the popular one's that come up first, in the order they did for me. Please be aware, they may not all line up with your specic engine options. You might as well also search out some more for your own.

1. TopGear | Diesel triple test: Jaguar XE vs Mercedes C-Class vs BMW 3-Series
Conclusion.



2. AutoTrader | BMW 3 Series vs Jaguar XE vs Mercedes C-Class
Conclusion.
The BMW 3 Series wins out of the three, Jaguar in second place, Mercedes in third. For the reasons why, just watch the video.


3. AutoExpress | BMW 3 Series vs Jaguar XE
Conclusion.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/3-series/92761/bmw-3-series-vs-jaguar-xe


4. WhatCar | Group test - BMW 3 Series vs Jaguar XE vs VW Passat
Conclusion.



5. CarAdvice | XE 25t R-Sport v Lexus IS200t F Sport v Mercedes-Benz C250
Comparison Review
Conclusion.
BMW 3 Series takes first place, Mercedes second, Jag third. Read article for comprehensive comparison.


6. AutoMoto | 2016 Mercedes C 250 vs BMW 330i vs Lexus IS200t vs Jaguar XE R-Sport
Conclusion.
Lexus wins. In order of their preferences, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW and finally Jaguar. Watch the video for a better breakdown.

----

Personal opinions.

Your car selection options closely mirror some of my own from a few months back. In the end, a few of the cars I narrowed it down to were the 4 Series Gran Coupe, 3 Series and the Jaguar XE. I actually test drove and compared all of them (though ended up with something completely different in the 3 Series GT M Sport, which I'd barely heard of before testing it at the garage).

Seeing as how the 4 Series GC nor 3 Series GT are in your list of choices, here's how I'd personally stack the final two that made both of our shortlists, based on my personal experiences.

Aesthetics - XE > 3 Series
Just find the XE looks a little sleeker and more sophisticated, though the 3 Series M Sport trim still looks very nice. The Jag's interior also looks a bit more luxurious, futuristic and less clinical than the BMW's more industrial look.

Interior - 3 Series > XE
Whilst I did think the XE's interior looked better, the BMW's was imo more practical and efficient. The cabin is roomier, there's more rear headroom and leg space, visibility from the rear is better, and the LCD screen and instruments are better positioned.

Ride - 3 Series > XE
The XE was a little nippier and sharper around corners, but I felt the BMW offered not only better feedback of the road, but a better balance between comfort and sportiness. The XE is a little stiffer and less forgiving, and doesn't eat up the road as well.

Gearbox - 3 Series > Jaguar XE
Even though both are brilliant and completely comparable (in-fact they might even be the same hardware wise), I still found BMW's set up was a bit more efficient and clever. The Jag's upshifts can pause a tiny bit longer before the next shift than the Beemer's, which feels more instantaneous in comparison.

Practicality - 3 Series > XE
This goes back to the roomier cabin of the 3 Series, on top of which it has the bigger boot as well, at 480 litres vs the XE's 455 litres. Also touched upon, it has a more comfortable overall ride too.

Engine - Depends
With the two diesel versions I tested, the BMW was quicker and got better mpg, but I'm not entirely sure how the US petrol models stack up. Based off of a quick googling, the 340i does 0-60mph in 4.6 seconds, and the XE 35t in 5.1 seconds. The 340i's mpg is 22/33, and the Jag's is yet to be announced.

Conclusion
If I had to choose between the two cars, in all honesty whilst I'd probably prefer the 3 Series (purely for practicality reasons), I'd actually just go with whatever was cheaper, or whoever offered me the best deal. They're both excellent, but as I said before, I ended up settling for the 3 Series GT M Sport in the end, and were I to pick a less practical option in this sort of price range, it would have likely been the 4 Series Gran Coupe instead of the 3 Series or XE.

Ultimately, the final advice I'd give is for you to just head to the garages and test drive all the cars you've shortlisted, however time consuming it may be. There is literally no better way to gauge your own preferences than that. Test them how you'd use them, e.g. the local routes, roads etc you use most, and also take along those who are likely to be the future passengers in your vehicle, whether in the rear or whatever, to gauge their thoughts as well (on rear comfort, space etc). The Garages might try to entice you to buy on the day with deals etc, but I'd hold out until you've test driven all your faves.

 

[Smokey]

what year is your car?

I've seen you make posts about repairs in the past. have you had major problems?

I ask because someone I know is looking at a N54 335i for $10k which he finds ridiculously low.

I have a 08.

The only major problems I've had are the water pump, but that was replaced years ago. The HPFP was also replaced a while ago as well, I believe before I got the car. The biggest offenders were actually those awful fucking run flat tires. I went through so many of those before punting them for good. When I was posting about repairs, it was maintenance that needed to be done which I didn't do since my CPO expired. There were no major problem areas, in fact the technician said my car was in excellent shape once they did the diagnostics. I've had it taken to a BMW dealer where they looked at the key and everything was green. I think I have some brake work that needs to be taken care of this year, but that was about it.

It's just been your standard oil/fluid maintenance since then. I don't go looking for what's wrong with the car on forums, because then my head will just be filled with that stuff and I'll anxiously await until it happens to me. I just drive it and keep it as up to date on its service as I can.

 

[nib95]

Everything you've sourced are comparisons of European diesels...for an American buyer. We don't care for diesels here. The BMW's diesel and 4-banger is known to be better than others. Also, I get the feeling you're sort of hinting at something in your post about biases...but I won't get into it with you. Instead, here is an awesome comparison review:

Jaguar XE-S vs BMW 335i M-Sport by Motor Trend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3YFTFLmcfk

And...

BMW 340i Review by Car and Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-bmw-340i-test-review

Actually no, the bottom two links I posted were for the 330i models (both comparisons in which the the 3 Series came out ahead of the XE). Not sure how the diesel comparisons would completely change all the impressions on things like ride, practicality, interior cabin space, etc. Also, the first link you've posted is for the XE-S. Is that not a different model altogether? I assume even the XE R-Sport is not the same thing as an XE-S. Tryptobphan specifically mentioned it was the Premium version he was interested in, so presumably he meant either a 25t or 35t Premium.

Lastly, I don't know what one particular cherry picked semi negative review is supposed to prove. Cherry picking is exactly what I was trying not to do, which is why I posted the first hits that came up for me.

If I google search BMW 340i review, these are my top 6 hits in the order the reviews appear. Bare in mind, I still think the 328i is the better pick.


1. Car Magazine | BMW 340i (2015) review
Verdict - 4/5 stars.

Yes, the BMW 3-series’ interior is beginning to look a touch dated next to the Jaguar XE’s classy minimalism and the Mercedes C-Class’s swoopy theatre, and by the same token, although the 3-series chassis is still superb, its rivals have closed the gap – we placed the Jaguar XE ahead of the closely related 4-series Gran Coupe in our recent triple test, and the C-Class is hardly a dullard to drive either.

But everything that made the 3-series such a class act before is still there, plus it’s now cleaner and more fuel efficient, and still looks fresh thanks to those handsome new headlights. It was great before and it’s still great now.

And for what it’s worth, the 5% of 3-series buyers who do go for the 340i engine will have a jolly good time.

2. Autocar - BMW 3 Series review (340i)
Verdict - 4/5 stars.

We've only driven the six-cylinder 340i variant and in this guise it's formidable, outstanding in lots of ways. Is it still the class’s benchmark on performance and handling? It’s too early to say, but the early signs aren’t universally promising.

3. Car and Driver | 2016 BMW 340i - What was good before is better.
Verdict - No score, but highly positive.

The 340i is no M3, but it does offer one of the best high-performance experiences in the segment. If the heart of a driving enthusiast beats within your chest, there are few better ways to indulge yourself than this remarkably subtle but capable driving machine.

4. WhatCar - 2015 BMW 340i review
Verdict - 4/5 stars.

It's too early to tell if the 3 Series has retaken its handling benchmark crown from Jaguar's XE - we need both cars on the same UK road before we can determine that. What's certain is that it's lost none of its ability to thrill, yet it offers an even wider range of adjustability to the driver, if wanted, without compromise. Look down the price list, and the 3 Series looks competitive compared with rivals throughout, too.

Having only driven the 340i, a model unlikely to find many homes in the UK, we're hesitant to hand back the 3 Series range our highest five-star rating either. Drives of the big-selling models such as the 320d Efficient Dynamics and new three-cylinder 318i in September will determine whether it's moved the game on enough to deserve it.

The 340i isn't our pick of the range, then, even if its emissions of 159g/km should be admired considering its performance. One thing's for sure, if you're lucky enough to be choosing from a list of poky petrol saloons, the breadth of the 340i's capabilities will be hard to ignore.

5. Road and Track | The 2016 BMW 340i Is Once Again the Sports Sedan Benchmark
Verdict - No score, but highly positive.

But the 340i is once again a BMW that feels like we want a BMW to feel. It's more fun than the car it replaces and is better than every other car in the class. And, once again, it's the car that every other automaker has to fight.

6. Autoguide - 2016 BMW 340i xDrive Review
Verdict - No score, but highly positive.

The new 340i is connected in a way that’s been missing in recent 3 Series. Hard to quantify in just a few words, the much storied 3 Series engagement is fully present in the new car. The 2016 340i has a level of urgency and intensity that just seems right in a compact luxury sports sedan.

---

P.S, I'm not trying to argue that the new 3 Series is definitively a better car than the XE. I don't think it is. I think preferences will be purely subjective, based on what you want from a car. The 3 Series is better for my personal needs (I gave my break down of the reasons why in my post earlier), but I'm not suggesting that will be the same for everyone else. Likewise, some critics, reviewers, journalists etc also prefer the 3 Series, and some don't. Like I said, I was close to picking up an XE myself. Hell, I have my eyes set on an XJ as a potential future purchase.

-Jaguar XE by a fucking landslide. The reviews and all critics have agreed, it obliterates the BMW in every category.

The above however, is categorically wrong, as the several links, comparisons and points I've posted already prove. All critics and reviews do not agree. At all.

 

[nib95]

what year is your car?

I've seen you make posts about repairs in the past. have you had major problems?

I ask because someone I know is looking at a N54 335i for $10k which he finds ridiculously low.

I'd be wary depending on the year of build. I made a post about it earlier in the thread. 07/08 models are most at risk. Probably better to just avoid them altogether.

Yea, the E90 was known to be one of the more unreliable BMW 3 Series releases, notably the 2007 and 2008 models. In-fact a lot of BMW's from those few years (3 series, 5 series etc) are among the most unreliable in BMW's history, as they were fitted with a new type of HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) that had unusually high failure rates.

BMW even acknowledged the issue and increased warranties for that specific part to 10 years or 120k miles.

High Pressure Fuel Pump for Turbo vehicles - BMW 335i, 335xi

BMW Technical Bulletin SI B 13 03 09

Date: April 2009

Subject: BMW emissions warranty of the High Pressure Fuel Pump (HDP) has been extended from 4 years or 50,000 miles to 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Situation:

BMW has become aware of a potential problem that could affect the durability of the High Pressure Fuel Pump (HDP) of certain MY 2007/2008 BMW automobiles equipped with N54 engines. It is estimated that only a small percentage of vehicles will actually develop a problem. Vehicles affected may have the Service Engine Soon lamp illuminated with various low fuel pressure-related faults (e.g., 29DC, 29F1, 29F2 ) stored in the Engine Control Module (DME). Also, the affected vehicles may experience long cranking times or reduced engine performance (engine in failsafe mode) when the HDP malfunctions.
Correction:

In the event that the High Pressure Fuel Pump of an MY 2007/2008 3 Series vehicle (335i/xi Sedan/Coupe/Convertible), MY 2007/2008 5 Series vehicle (535i/xi Sedan/Sports Wagon), or MY 2008 1 Series vehicle (135is Coupe/Convertible) with the N54 engine exhibits the symptoms listed above, it should be replaced with the improved part (P/N 13 51 7 592 881). For HDP diagnostic and replacing instructions, refer to SI B12 55 06 and RA 13 51 017, found in BMW TIS.

The BMW F30 (2012 onwards) is comparatively faring considerably better reliability wise, in-fact, it's been voted most reliable lease car two years in a row, according to surveys of more than 650,000 cars in the FN50. In the last few years BMW has been on the up in a notable way, in terms of Consumer Reports reliability ratings, going from 19th place in 2012 to 11th in 2015. Evidently their newer cars are writing many wrongs.

 

[mmazurkiewicz]

thanks.

he's looking at an 07. the HPFP thing is obviously very well known but not really a worry as its a free replacement and likely already done on the car.

as far as the e90 being unreliable, i dunno. if the media called it unreliable because of the HPFP then I don't care. I see hundreds of those cars on the road daily so theyre obviously somewhat reliable. like literally see as many e90s as I do Accords.

 

[Smokey]

When you say unreliable in what way are we talking? Like break down and you're on the side of the road unreliable? As I mentioned the only time that's happened to mr in the years of of owning my 335 was the water pump.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Actually no, the bottom two links I posted were for the 330i models (both comparisons in which the the 3 Series came out ahead of the XE). Not sure how the diesel comparisons would completely change all the impressions on things like ride, practicality, interior cabin space, etc. Also, the first link you've posted is for the XE-S. Is that not a different model altogether? I assume even the XE R-Sport is not the same thing as an XE-S. Tryptobphan specifically mentioned it was the Premium version he was interested in, so presumably he meant either a 25t or 35t Premium.

Lastly, I don't know what one particular cherry picked semi negative review is supposed to prove. Cherry picking is exactly what I was trying not to do, which is why I posted the first hits that came up for me.

If I google search BMW 340i review, these are my top 6 hits in the order the reviews appear. Bare in mind, I still think the 328i is the better pick.


1. Car Magazine | BMW 340i (2015) review
Verdict - 4/5 stars.



2. Autocar - BMW 3 Series review (340i)
Verdict - 4/5 stars.



3. Car and Driver | 2016 BMW 340i - What was good before is better.
Verdict - No score, but highly positive.



4. WhatCar - 2015 BMW 340i review
Verdict - 4/5 stars.



5. Road and Track | The 2016 BMW 340i Is Once Again the Sports Sedan Benchmark
Verdict - No score, but highly positive.



6. Autoguide - 2016 BMW 340i xDrive Review
Verdict - No score, but highly positive.


---

P.S, I'm not trying to argue that the new 3 Series is definitively a better car than the XE. I don't think it is. I think preferences will be purely subjective, based on what you want from a car. The 3 Series is better for my personal needs (I gave my break down of the reasons why in my post earlier), but I'm not suggesting that will be the same for everyone else. Likewise, some critics, reviewers, journalists etc also prefer the 3 Series, and some don't. Like I said, I was close to picking up an XE myself. Hell, I have my eyes set on an XJ as a potential future purchase.



The above however, is categorically wrong, as the several links, comparisons and points I've posted already prove. All critics and reviews do not agree. At all.

This category is very heavily weighed towards performance. A trait that the Jaguar has the BMW beat. From steering to handling, and so forth. The reviews you quoted yourself say as much. The 3-series gave birth to the defining characteristics that determine what the best car in the class should be. The XE-S has claimed those traits.

Fuel efficiency between the two is incrementally different - the XE-S should come in at 21/31 to the BMW's 22/33. But the Jaguar's far more responsive in performance, because it's supercharged. Reliability should easily be in the Jaguar's favor, again, because superchargers tend to be more reliable. Plus the supercharged 3.0s have been around for a few years in Jaguar's line-up too. He's also looking for good maintenance and reliability. BMW's track record with reliability hasn't been superb with their 3.0s and the B58 motor is completely new, so Lord knows what kind of BS may turn up with it.

To make matters worse, all new BMW's going forward will no longer have the 4 year/50k mile warranty + free scheduled maintenance, it's a generic 3/36 and nothing more. One of the great things about owning a BMW is now totally gone. Meanwhile Jaguar's increased their warranty to 5 years/60k miles + free scheduled maintenance, which makes them a segment leader.

This isn't bias talking. This is actual ownership experience. I've owned tons of cars, I've ignored CR and JD Power reliability studies and ended up getting burned by Audis and BMWs left and right. I've recommended F30s to friends in NYC who end up servicing them every 60 days like clockwork. And I recommended them only because they were the best performance sedan in its segment, and because I also owned a 335i myself. But that is no longer the case. I jumped ship when I realized it was sinking and didn't fulfill what past BMWs did. The 3-series had become a complacent car, with performance that's gone from great to good. With handling that's gone from razor sharp to good enough. Steering that's gone from responsive to numb. It's a true luxury car now that their marketing team has even emphasized as having best in-class trunk space at one point...sometimes BMW pushes the 3-series like Chevy pushes a Malibu and the enthusiast circle has noticed. Has it paid off? Of course! They sell like crazy because they attract the commoner. But they've made tons of sacrifices to do so.

So if tryptobphan is looking for an economy luxury cruiser and isn't concerned about performance that a car like the Jag XE-S/35t has to offer...he'd be better off with a Mercedes C300. But because he mentioned the 340i, that indicates to me he has some sporting intentions, and if that's the case, the Jaguar XE-S (XE 35t in the US) is going to be the better car in that regard because it sits on a better platform that was designed from the ground-up to carve, with very respectable MPG of over 30HWY, a better warranty, free maintenance, proven powertrain, higher quality interior, MUCH better price tag with a TON more standard equipment, and more accurate/engaging steering than the BMW.

If a slightly larger trunk and an extra inch of rear legroom are what you need...then sure the BMW's your car, but you will pay a lot more for it.

 

[AlphaSnake]

When you say unreliable in what way are we talking? Like break down and you're on the side of the road unreliable? As I mentioned the only time that's happened to mr in the years of of owning my 335 was the water pump.

Check engine lights and failures of that sort. Stupid inconveniences that require a dealer visit.

 

[nib95]

This category is very heavily weighed towards performance. A trait that the Jaguar has the BMW beat. From steering to handling, and so forth. The reviews you quoted yourself say as much. The 3-series gave birth to the defining characteristics that determine what the best car in the class should be. The XE-S has claimed those traits.

Fuel efficiency between the two is incrementally different - the XE-S should come in at 21/31 to the BMW's 22/33. But the Jaguar's far more responsive in performance, because it's supercharged. Reliability should easily be in the Jaguar's favor, again, because superchargers tend to be more reliable. Plus the supercharged 3.0s have been around for a few years in Jaguar's line-up too. He's also looking for good maintenance and reliability. BMW's track record with reliability hasn't been superb with their 3.0s and the B58 motor is completely new, so Lord knows what kind of BS may turn up with it.

To make matters worse, all new BMW's going forward will no longer have the 4 year/50k mile warranty + free scheduled maintenance, it's a generic 3/36 and nothing more. One of the great things about owning a BMW is now totally gone. Meanwhile Jaguar's increased their warranty to 5 years/60k miles + free scheduled maintenance, which makes them a segment leader.

This isn't bias talking. This is actual ownership experience. I've owned tons of cars, I've ignored CR and JD Power reliability studies and ended up getting burned by Audis and BMWs left and right. I've recommended F30s to friends in NYC who end up servicing them every 60 days like clockwork. And I recommended them only because they were the best performance sedan in its segment, and because I also owned a 335i myself. But that is no longer the case. I jumped ship when I realized it was sinking and didn't fulfill what past BMWs did. The 3-series had become a complacent car, with performance that's gone from great to good. With handling that's gone from razor sharp to good enough. Steering that's gone from responsive to numb. It's a true luxury car now that their marketing team has even emphasized as having best in-class trunk space at one point...sometimes BMW pushes the 3-series like Chevy pushes a Malibu and the enthusiast circle has noticed. Has it paid off? Of course! They sell like crazy because they attract the commoner. But they've made tons of sacrifices to do so.

So if tryptobphan is looking for an economy luxury cruiser and isn't concerned about performance that a car like the Jag XE-S/35t has to offer...he'd be better off with a Mercedes C300. But because he mentioned the 340i, that indicates to me he has some sporting intentions, and if that's the case, the Jaguar XE-S (XE 35t in the US) is going to be the better car in that regard because it sits on a better platform that was designed from the ground-up to carve, with very respectable MPG of over 30HWY, a better warranty, free maintenance, proven powertrain, higher quality interior, MUCH better price tag with a TON more standard equipment, and more accurate/engaging steering than the BMW.

If a slightly larger trunk and an extra inch of rear legroom are what you need...then sure the BMW's your car, but you will pay a lot more for it.

I've literally just posted a dozen or so links that are contrary to your opinion, many not only speaking of how great the handling is on the 3 Series, but of how it's better than the XE's in some of their opinions too. I mean, in comparisons where they're literally driving the two cars back to back. Yet there you go again, claiming that the steering feels numb and poor, contrary to 95% of all professional opinion out there.

I also literally just test drove both cars in October, and mentioned my impressions above. The XE's steering is slightly sharper, but the 3 Series offers the better feedback and ride, at least based on my comparison at that moment and time.

But to summarize some of the silly things you've said just recently.

• You claimed both Audi's and BMW's all have garbage reliability.
• When shown multiple reports, studies and findings that showed otherwise, you basically ignored them and came up with a bunch of excuses to the contrary. You also ignored that BMW came ahead of Jaguar in all of these recent reports, and that the Q50, another car you're very fond of because you own one (?), came up as one of the most unreliable cars of 2015.
• You claimed that all critics and reviews agree the XE obliterates the 3 Series in every category, another ludicrous claim that is patently false, as evidenced. Hell, some that are scientifically backed, like cabin space or boot capacity.
• When provided with impartially gathered links that prove otherwise, you ignore them, and instead cherry pick comparisons and reviews, essentially disregarding everything else, just to confirm your bias.
• You claim the 3 Series has numb steering and lackluster handling, something that is contrary to 95%+ of all professional and user opinions out there.
• Your OP basically reads like a giant advertise for Jaguar. It's actually embarrassing.

I hope you realise how impartial and ridiculous some of your posts come off, and how silly it is that you literally ignore every single piece of data, impressions, comparisons, facts, figures etc, that in any way go against your preferences.

On a side note, the lesser warranty period wouldn't even affect him unless he bought the car in 2017 (something you continue to ignore), so until then, that's a non issue.

 

[SliChillax]

The thing is that the weight difference between the 3.0 and 5.0 is almost negligible - only 45lbs. The two engines are identical, the 3.0 even has the space where the two extra 'cylinders' go, they're just not machined, cut, and ported for hardware to actually go there - it's basically just blank space. So it's not like the BMW S65 and S85 motors where BMW literally just lopped off a pair of cylinders - in the Jag's case, the 3.0L blocks are just not milled to house 8.

Interesting. We'll see after a year I guess if they will use the 5.0.

If I google search BMW 340i review, these are my top 6 hits in the order the reviews appear. Bare in mind, I still think the 328i is the better pick.

The 328i has been replaced by the 330i.

 

[nib95]

Interesting. We'll see after a year I guess if they will use the 5.0.

The 328i has been replaced by the 330i.

Then I'd personally go for the 330i instead then. Though it's not available to build on BMW USA's website yet. In the UK at least, diesel engines are becoming increasingly popular, and I think the 330d or 320d variants are probably the best in the range.

 

[Smokey]

Nib coming with that flame thrower. I always knew he had it in him from a past life (IGN)

 

[SliChillax]

Then I'd personally go for the 330i instead then. Though it's not available to build on BMW USA's website yet. In the UK at least, diesel engines are becoming increasingly popular, and I think the 330d or 320d variants are probably the best in the range.

Eh, don't really like diesels. As much as I love the low end torque and long range I wouldn't be willing to give up the smoothness and overall quietness of the petrol. The 330i is a great car because as others have said, the 340i is expensive and with a few options you could easily buy an M3 with low miles.

 

[nib95]

Nib coming with that flame thrower. I always knew he had it in him from a past life (IGN)

Lol, I sort of thought it'd be different when discussing things that literally cost tens of thousands of pounds/dollars. Evidently not.

Honestly the best advice is always to test drive all shortlisted options. I would never outright say this model or car is definitively the best for someone, especially whom I don't even know, because that's silly. Everyone has subjective preferences and unique requirements. I posted earlier in the thread about how I found the 3 GT's steering a touch on the stiffer side, and disliked that it didn't have an electronic parking brake, others mentioned they prefer heavier steering and regular handbrake's. That's just the way the cookie crumbles, and why there is never going to be a definitive best with these sorts of things.

Eh, don't really like diesels. As much as I love the low end torque and long range I wouldn't be willing to give up the smoothness and overall quietness of the petrol. The 330i is a great car because as others have said, the 340i is expensive and with a few options you could easily buy an M3 with low miles.

I suppose it's personal preference and down to differences in actual models. I prefer the low end torque of diesels, and they generally offer better fuel economy too. I don't really find them noisier per say, at least from an internal cabin perspective, but I definitely prefer the actual engine note of petrol engines, especially in idle, where diesels can sometimes sound a bit tractor like (again, from outside the car). Another thing I've found is that with Manual's, diesel's tend to have more forgiving biting points, and often give slightly better feedback too. That said, the vast majority of actual performance cars are petrol, so there's that.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I've literally just posted a dozen or so links that are contrary to your opinion, many not only speaking of how great the handling is on the 3 Series, but of how it's better than the XE's in some of their opinions too. I mean, in comparisons where they're literally driving the two cars back to back. Yet there you go again, claiming that the steering feels numb and poor, contrary to 95% of all professional opinion out there.

I also literally just test drove both cars in October, and mentioned my impressions above. The XE's steering is slightly sharper, but the 3 Series offers the better feedback and ride, at least based on my comparison at that moment and time.

But to summarize some of the silly things you've said just recently.

• You claimed both Audi's and BMW's all have garbage reliability.
• When shown multiple reports, studies and findings that showed otherwise, you basically ignored them and came up with a bunch of excuses to the contrary. You also ignored that BMW came ahead of Jaguar in all of these recent reports, and that the Q50, another car you're very fond of because you own one (?), came up as one of the most unreliable cars of 2015.
• You claimed that all critics and reviews agree the XE obliterates the 3 Series in every category, another ludicrous claim that is patently false, as evidenced. Hell, some that are scientifically backed, like cabin space or boot capacity.
• When provided with impartially gathered links that prove otherwise, you ignore them, and instead cherry pick comparisons and reviews, essentially disregarding everything else, just to confirm your bias.
• You claim the 3 Series has numb steering and lackluster handling, something that is contrary to 95%+ of all professional and user opinions out there.
• Your OP basically reads like a giant advertise for Jaguar. It's actually embarrassing.

I hope you realise how impartial and ridiculous some of your posts come off, and how silly it is that you literally ignore every single piece of data, impressions, comparisons, facts, figures etc, that in any way go against your preferences.

On a side note, the lesser warranty period wouldn't even affect him unless he bought the car in 2017 (something you continue to ignore), so until then, that's a non issue.

I ignore it because I've gone over a ton of these issues already in the past pages. BMWs and Audis are less reliable than others, and I've explained how and why. I've owned them. I know first hand. I have friends who are service advisors and they stay busy fixing random failures on brand new cars. CR and JD Power don't measure reliability like you think they do. This is also why the Q50 ranked low in reliability during its first year, because people kept taking them to service depts to ask how to use function A, function B, etc. You really think that the tried and tested VQ37 and the JATCO 7AT has a high failure rate or something? Come on. Those cars run without a hiccup. Ford at one point had extremely low reliability scores, because people didn't know how to use Sync. The cars themselves weren't unreliable, it was just that people didn't understand technology and claimed something was wrong with their car. I've clarified this. You're blindly looking at JD and CR, and not actually reading WHY and HOW these numbers came to be.

My knowledge is based on real experience, not an outdated method which dealerships have been longing to have fixed because it doesn't reflect the metrics accurately.

I also don't own a Q50.

Your posts of the 3-series where the Jaguar is used to compare aren't comparing what I'm comparing. They have Jags with 16 or 17 inch base wheels. Some of your reviews have outright said that the Jaguar is the better handling car, as have my reviews comparing it to an M-Sport 335i. Also, 95% of professional and user opinions? Are you kidding me? The F30 was criticized heavily for its lackluster steering by every major American publication. Maybe European publications didn't, but here in the states it was an outcry even from BMW fanboys on the numerous BMW forums I posted in when I owned my 335i. This is honestly the first time I've ever seen anyone try to say otherwise about the shitty electric steering from BMW in the 335i.

I knew things went sour for BMW when the Lexus GS350 won Motor Trend's best mid-size luxury sedan comparison. And when the Lexus IS350 beat out the 335i Sedan in Road and Track's comparison, and even R&T said about the 335 "But the new-to-this-car electric power steering is heartbreakingly bland and distant."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/road-tests/reviews/a5213/the-comparison-65-3-roa1013/

Motor Trend, Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Automobile are the big 4 that matter most when it comes to cars. They have the best equipment. The best metrics. They track most of their cars. They have genuine professional drivers on hand (such as Randy Pobst) and so when I have to defer to magazines, I look at them. Not Autocar. Not Auto Guide. The Car and Driver link you posted was a quick review from July 2015. Quick reviews range generally between 30 minutes to 2 hours of car time. The C&D quick review is purely an impression based review of an unfinished product, much like impressions of games are at E3. The final result from C&D was what I posted: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-bmw-340i-test-review

The new 3-series’ mid-cycle updates make a good car a little better, but they’re not transformative. This generation of 3-series still lacks the rewarding sense of driver involvement that helped earn its predecessors 23 10Best trophies since 1992. Knowing its record, we can’t help but miss its defining characteristic.

Yet, despite the tweaks to the steering software, the updates do little to improve the feedback at the 3’s helm. The steering still lacks the positive on-center feel we want in a driver’s car—it’s video-game artificial for the first couple of degrees of input—and there’s only a small increase in effort as cornering loads rise.

The Road and Track review of the 340i is more positive, but R&T hasn't driven or reviewed the Jaguar XE yet. We'll circle back once they do, but I'll put money on it that they'll say the Jag is the better handling and performing car of the two with the preferred steering.

XCar's Jaguar XE-S Review: Better than a 3-Series?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aHyx4jftHw

I've also driven the cars I critique, because I have press connections, I have written about cars on and off, I've been loaned cars by dealerships, and I've gotten press review loaners as well. The OP is what it is because Jaguar was making headlines 2 years ago left and right, it's a product of its time. If you don't like it, feel free to make your own thread.

You can keep going back and forth with me on this, but I have more than enough seat time in the 335i M-Sport and 340i to know it does NOT possess the classic BMW traits. The Jaguar XE, on the other hand, does. If BMW wants to make the 3-series truly great again, they need to give it the same steering software and weight as the M235i (a car one of my best friends owns based on my recommendation in November), stiffen up the suspension a bit more, and also employ thicker sway bars front and back. So I don't have a bias, because there are BMWs that I can still recommend, such as the 2-series and even the M3/M4 (which I'm considering for myself). But the 3-series is just not one of them. It doesn't meet the legacy its setup for itself since the E30.

 

[matmanx1]

oh wow, congrats man!



oh i thought i said something here about that. but yeah, we're having a boy. month left :x

my announcement is....

I made it yall. N54 da best.

Congratulations! That's a pretty big achievement and it looks like you made the right choice in hanging on to it as long as you have.

Do you guys think the new Elise that's supposedly in development has a real shot at making it to the US?

Does it hinge on the success of their upcoming mass market efforts?

I sure hope so. I would love to see a Lotus revival, of sorts. The world needs more truly lightweight, truly focused sports cars. That being said, Lotus also needs an SUV or a Crossover to really rake in the cash. Use Porsche's strategy (sell lots of Cayenne's and Macan's to finance the lower volume sports cars) and offer a great looking, unique, fun to drive SUV or Crossover and Lotus could make a comeback. It sounds ridiculous and purists will hate it but there's no denying that Lotus could sell a ton more "trucks" worldwide than they will ever be able to sell sports cars.

More cylinders, more friction :/

500cc per cylinder seems to be a common cut off point apart from the smallest engines nowadays. I don't think any were ever sold in the states, but BMW even made some 2l straight sixes.

Interestingly enough, the base motor in the Nissan Skyline (which the US also never got) was a 2 liter straight six. The GTS-T (not the GTR, which got the 2.6 liter motor) has a turbo version of it and it is supposedly a pretty great little motor. In my totally uneducated opinion I think a 2 liter flat six with a turbo in a Boxster/Cayman would be pretty awesome.

Check engine lights and failures of that sort. Stupid inconveniences that require a dealer visit.

I can vouch for this. I just lived through a year of it with my 128i. Nothing that ever left me stranded but boy is it irritating (and a drain on the wallet). For sure I will never own another out of warranty BMW as a daily driver (although as a fun 2nd or 3rd car, maybe).

 

[nib95]

I ignore it because I've gone over a ton of these issues already in the past pages. BMWs and Audis are less reliable than others, and I've explained how and why. I've owned them. I know first hand. I have friends who are service advisors and they stay busy fixing random failures on brand new cars. CR and JD Power don't measure reliability like you think they do. This is also why the Q50 ranked low in reliability during its first year, because people kept taking them to service depts to ask how to use function A, function B, etc. Ford at one point had extremely low reliability scores, because people didn't know how to use Sync. The cars themselves weren't unreliable, it was just that people didn't understand technology and claimed something was wrong with their car. I've clarified this. My knowledge is based on real experience, not an outdated method which dealerships have been longing to have fixed because it doesn't reflect the metrics accurately.

I also don't own a Q50.

Your posts of the 3-series where the Jaguar is used to compare aren't comparing what I'm comparing. They have Jags with 16 or 17 inch base wheels. Some of your reviews have outright said that the Jaguar is the better handling car, as have my reviews comparing it to an M-Sport 335i. Also, 95% of professional and user opinions? Are you kidding me? The F30 was criticized heavily for its lackluster steering by every American publication. Maybe European publications didn't, but here in the states it was an outcry even from BMW fanboys on the numerous BMW forums. This is honestly the first time I've ever seen anyone try to say otherwise about the shitty electric steering from BMW in the 335i.

I knew things went sour for BMW when the Lexus GS350 won Motor Trend's best mid-size luxury sedan comparison. And when the Lexus IS350 beat out the 335i Sedan in Road and Track's comparison, and even R&T said about the 335 "But the new-to-this-car electric power steering is heartbreakingly bland and distant."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/road-tests/reviews/a5213/the-comparison-65-3-roa1013/

Motor Trend, Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Automobile are the big 4 that matter most when it comes to cars. They have the best equipment. The best metrics. They track most of their cars. They have genuine professional drivers on hand (such as Randy Pobst) and so when I have to defer to magazines, I look at them. Not Autocar. Not Auto Guide. The Car and Driver link you posted was a quick review from July 2015. Quick reviews range generally between 30 minutes to 2 hours of car time. The C&D quick review is purely an impression based review of an unfinished product, much like impressions of games are at E3. The final result from C&D was what I posted: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-bmw-340i-test-review


The Road and Track review of the 340i is more positive, but R&T hasn't driven or reviewed the Jaguar XE yet. We'll circle back once they do, but I'll put money on it that they'll say the Jag is the better handling and performing car of the two with the preferred steering.

I've also driven the cars I critique, because I have press connections, I have written about cars on and off, I've been loaned cars by dealerships, and I've gotten press review loaners as well. The OP is what it is because Jaguar was making headlines 2 years ago left and right, it's a product of its time. If you don't like it, feel free to make your own thread.

You can keep going back and forth with me on this, but I have more than enough seat time in the 335i M-Sport and 340i to know it does NOT possess the classic BMW traits. The Jaguar XE, on the other hand, does. If BMW wants to make the 3-series truly great again, they need to give it the same steering software and weight as the M235i (a car one of my best friends owns based on my recommendation in November), stiffen up the suspension a bit more, and also employ thicker sway bars front and back.

Firstly, the Q50 didn't score low on reliability because people didn't know how to use the electronics lol. Read the bloody complaints and records. It's because the electronics in the car are awful, prone to crashing, hanging, slow loading and start ups, media and radio stations intermittently refusing to change, issues with the cameras, apps disappearing randomly and so on and so on. Parsing these things off as people simply needing to ask how things work is utterly misleading and misrepresentative.

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your post, as just like in the first part of this response, time and time again you've proven your complete lack of impartiality and reluctance to accept anything that might be contrary to your own very specific range of preferences. Every single outlet, study, reviewer or data point that disagree's with me is wrong, and all the one's that don't are the best. That's literally your point of argument every time.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Firstly, the Q50 didn't score low on reliability because people didn't know how to use the electronics lol. Read the bloody complaints and records. It's because the electronics in the car are awful, prone to crashing, hanging, slow loading and start ups, media and radio stations intermittently refusing to change, issues with the cameras, apps disappearing randomly and so on and so on. Parsing these things off as people simply needing to ask how things work is utterly misleading and misrepresentative.

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your post, as just like in the first part of this response, time and time again you've proven your complete lack of impartiality and reluctance to accept anything that might be contrary to your own very specific range of preferences. Every single outlet, study, reviewer or data point that disagree's with me is wrong, and all the one's that don't are the best. That's literally your point of argument every time.

Those issues in the Q50 were solved in the first 6 months of release. Infiniti even issued a TSB to dealers to NOT deliver cars until they've applied the software updates to the Intel powered hardware and software. But dealers didn't listen and kept selling cars without proper PDI. As of 2015 that has not been an issue for the car, because they ship from the factory with the right software now.

And to the rest of your post: you posted links trying to prove me wrong. I posted links trying to prove you wrong. And somehow I'm the bad guy. Hahahaha. Literally laughed while I read that last paragraph of yours quoted. You're the one who threw shade at me in your initial post. So don't try to get cute and act innocent. You have your opinion, I have my opinion. If you simply stated yours without the thinly veiled attempt to rile me up, I'd have never even replied to you. But you didn't. So we'll leave it at this:

Agree to disagree.

 

[Smokey]

 

[jongkookie]

C&C Dallas kinda sucked. It was fnckin cold and we got there there a little late so the fancier cars were streaming out.

Then some dipshit in a Mustang(of course it was a Mustang lol) spun out trying to leave the parking lot and basically ended the festivities so eh.

I'll post the pics later when I get home and my thoughts about BMW's since we ended up chilling inside the dealership the rest of the time lol.

 

[nib95]

Those issues in the Q50 were solved in the first 6 months of release. Infiniti even issued a TSB to dealers to NOT deliver cars until they've applied the software updates to the Intel powered hardware and software. But dealers didn't listen and kept selling cars without proper PDI. As of 2015 that has not been an issue for the car, because they ship from the factory with the right software now.

And to the rest of your post: you posted links trying to prove me wrong. I posted links trying to prove you wrong. And somehow I'm the bad guy. Hahahaha. Literally laughed while I read that last paragraph of yours quoted. You're the one who threw shade at me in your initial post. So don't try to get cute and act innocent. You have your opinion, I have my opinion. If you simply stated yours without the thinly veiled attempt to rile me up, I'd have never even replied to you. But you didn't. So we'll leave it at this:

Agree to disagree.

I posted the first 5-6 comparisons and reviews that came up on Google/YT. You posted cherry picked examples that only confirmed your preemptive biases, even though the links you posted weren't as relevant. One is comparing a 335i (not even a 340i) to an XE-S, and the other isn't even a comparison, just a review. It doesn't take a genius to realise that the links I posted, that are full on direct 1:1 comparisons of multiple different vehicles from the different manufacturers, chosen because they were the most popular, not because of their conclusions, are far more valuable and relevant. If you actually bothered to go through the comparisons I linked, you'd see how comprehensive and detailed some of them are, to write them off simply because they don't confer to your bias is just silly.

On a side note, it will certainly be interesting to see the Q50's reliability figures over 2016. Because 2015's were less than impressive.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I posted the first 5-6 comparisons and reviews that came up on Google/YT. You posted cherry picked examples that only confirmed your preemptive biases, even though the links you posted weren't as relevant. One is comparing a 335i (not even a 340i) to an XE-S, and the other isn't even a comparison, just a review. It doesn't take a genius to realise that the links I posted, that are full on direct 1:1 comparisons of multiple different vehicles from the different manufacturers, chosen because they were the most popular, not because of their conclusions, are far more valuable and relevant. If you actually bothered to go through the comparisons I linked, you'd see how comprehensive and detailed some of them are, to write them off simply because they don't confer to your bias is just silly.

On a side note, it will certainly be interesting to see the Q50's reliability figures over 2016. Because 2015's were less than impressive.

I did go through them...and most of them didn't even compare 6-cylinder cars. They were mostly diesels and 4-bangers to which I CONCEDED that the BMW is easily the winner in that regard because their diesels and 4-bangers are better than Jaguar's. What's the problem there?

It's hard to find outright XE-S vs 340i comparisons because of how new both cars are. The XE-S arrives in the states only in May. And the 340i has JUST started making press rounds here for Americans in December.

 

[nib95]

I did go through them...and most of them didn't even compare 6-cylinder cars. They were mostly diesels and 4-bangers to which I CONCEDED that the BMW is easily the winner in that regard because their diesels and 4-bangers are better than Jaguar's. What's the problem there?

It's hard to find outright XE-S vs 340i comparisons because of how new both cars are. The XE-S arrives in the states only in May. And the 340i has JUST started making press rounds here for Americans in December.

Did you read/view the two comprehensive Australian comparisons? I assume no, because you missed the fact that they were Australian, and the fact that they're comparing the 330i petrol variant. Read/watch them. It'd be a good start. P.S, the Lexus wins one of them.

On a side note, Tryptobphan is interested in the XE Premium, not the XE-S, so not sure that'd be of much value to him anyway.

 

[SliChillax]

Probably late to this but I just realized how many interior components Infiniti shares with Mercedez. Basically they use the same key design, gauge cluster is similar only with different silver background and font for the A class but they use the same small screen in the middle with the same UI, the headlights switch on the right is the same, buttons on the door are the same,same buttons on the steering wheel, same door handle and electric seat buttons, same AC controls, the row of buttons where you find the heated seats and hazard lights are the same, the thing whatever you call it where the gear level is looks the same. What else do they share apart from some of the engines?

 

[Stinkles]

Probably late to this but I just realized how many interior components Infiniti shares with Mercedez. Basically they use the same key design, gauge cluster is similar only with different silver background and font for the A class but they use the same small screen in the middle with the same UI, the headlights switch on the right is the same, buttons on the door are the same,same buttons on the steering wheel, same door handle and electric seat buttons, same AC controls, the row of buttons where you find the heated seats and hazard lights are the same, the thing whatever you call it where the gear level is looks the same. What else do they share apart from some of the engines?

And yet the Infiniti's looks vastly better, in large part because of the recessed screen and more attractive wheel/leather.

 

[SliChillax]

And yet the Infiniti's looks vastly better, in large part because of the recessed screen and more attractive wheel/leather.

I agree. Weirdly enough the Q30 is the only Infiniti which I actually like the interior. I hate the long vertical dash of the Q50 and just their designs overall look awful to me. I'm sure they are great and reliable cars but they just don't do it for me design wise.

 

[rokkerkory]

Mazda's new CX-9 is pretty badass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrY4g9EAveg

Looks really good, new turbo engine and awd system

 

[SliChillax]

Mazda's new CX-9 is pretty badass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrY4g9EAveg

Looks really good, new turbo engine and awd system

They have outdone themselves with the interior. Take note Japanese manufacturers.

 

[jongkookie]

11 pictures out of the 60 shots I took. That's kinda how bad it was today, so here's like a handful of my faves:






And my first Noble M600 sighting here in DFW:



I wanted to get really up close to the Noble but the owner left right after I took this picture as it started to sprinkle some rain.

There was also this doofus over there:



The rest of the album is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27432612@N04/albums/72157664221957001

Speaking of doofuses, here's that dipshit Mustang I was talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgqmKfZ75R8

Anyway, since we're on interior talk I thought I should share my thoughts about the BMW interiors. In short, it was fncking disappointing.

The 2 series was riddled with plastic-fantastic materials that felt like my Miata and this was a $40K car? What the fnck. The 4 series GranCoupe had a tiny ass interior. The front passenger was cramped as fnck, I had to have the seat all the way back just to feel comfortable and I'm 5'6" on a really good day lol. Mind you, I feel perfectly comfortable in my Miata and I actually have to sit close to the steering wheel coz I have short legs but a taller body.

Basically the nicest BMW's I found on the floor was a Dinan M4 for $90K and an M5 for $120K. The dealership was nice, letting us C&C people stay inside to avoid the cold and sit in the cars, but the cars themselves had a very disappointing experience for me.

Maybe its coz my expectations were wrong, but $40K for a 90's era plastic interior car? You've gotta be fncking kidding me BMW.

 

[J-Rzez]

Was set on blue if I got the new Focus RS, then my buddy sent me pics from the Philly auto show of it in white, now I don't know what do...

Reviews have been very positive thus far. Though I'll wait for some real tests and early adopters. Something makes me nervous about it's AWD. I mean, it's made by a good company, but still. Also, if it understeers too much I'm out.

Drift mode is interesting, even those slugs from jalopnik and autotrader were able to do some super drifto action.

 

[ruxtpin]

I went by the Philly Auto show myself earlier today. Was cool to see and sit in a bunch of new stuff. I'm torn between the WRX and Golf R for my next purchase (trading in my GLI). I still need to test drive both, but a DCC equipped R is about 8k dollars more expensive than a top-of-the-line WRX.

Someday one of those Porches will be mine. The Cayman GT4 on display was fantastic looking, but unless I had the time to take a car like that to the track I'd probably go with the Boxster Spyder or Targa they had on display. Putting the top down on one of those and cruising would be fantastic.

 

[SliChillax]

Was set on blue if I got the new Focus RS, then my buddy sent me pics from the Philly auto show of it in white, now I don't know what do...

Reviews have been very positive thus far. Though I'll wait for some real tests and early adopters. Something makes me nervous about it's AWD. I mean, it's made by a good company, but still. Also, if it understeers too much I'm out.

Drift mode is interesting, even those slugs from jalopnik and autotrader were able to do some super drifto action.

White is boring, it'll look like every other Focus on the road. Keep the blue, drive something different.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Did you read/view the two comprehensive Australian comparisons? I assume no, because you missed the fact that they were Australian, and the fact that they're comparing the 3 litre petrol variants. Read/watch them. It'd be a good start. P.S, the Lexus wins one of them.

On a side note, Tryptobphan is interested in the XE Premium, not the XE-S, so not sure that'd be of much value to him anyway.

Holy crap...are you trolling me? I'm legitimately curious. Did YOU even read and watch the links you posted? Those links and the video review (which btw you posted a BROKEN link of) are comparing 4-cylinders. The 330i is a 2.0L. The Jag XE R-Sport is just a body kit with the 2.0L. They're all 2.0s in these tests. Not 6 cylinders. Let me see you spin that as me twisting something or other to fit my agenda and bias.

Both Australian links reviewed the 2.0s across the board, including the Mercedes. The video review picks the Lexus but says it's not the best handling or the sportiest (they state the XE is, meanwhile) and that it's engine is downright lackluster (contrary to the XE's and BMW's). They picked the Lexus because it was the most comfortable to drive, most compliant suspension of the 4 and the cheapest - but were unsure of the Jaguar's maintenance because it was so new. That was why it won. But they specifically said for "outright driving enjoyment the Jaguar is our pick". So if driving enjoyment is not what you value, get the Lexus. If it is, get the Jaguar. Their words, not mine.

So before you chastise me for not reading, you should actually double check what you've posted. Because as I said many posts ago, everything you posted was diesels and 4-bangers. Categories Jaguar will not be winning right now because their petrol 2.0s SUCK and are still old Ford engines that will be replaced early 2017 with all new Jaguar Ingenium motors making ~265HP/260lbs ft of TQ with forged internals, and lightweight blocks.

 

[SliChillax]

Anyway, since we're on interior talk I thought I should share my thoughts about the BMW interiors. In short, it was fncking disappointing.

The 2 series was riddled with plastic-fantastic materials that felt like my Miata and this was a $40K car? What the fnck.
Maybe its coz my expectations were wrong, but $40K for a 90's era plastic interior car? You've gotta be fncking kidding me BMW.

Why is it always the Mustang owners crashing the exact same way? Anyway, have to disagree with the BMW interior. I've been in Miatas, like yours and the new one and it doesn't even come close to the 2 series in quality, I think you're just over reacting. There seems to be a stupid amount of unreasonable BMW hate in this thread. Yeah the interior isn't exciting to look at but I don't see where you saw the 90's era plastics that feel like a Miata. Maybe elaborate a bit? Also for 40k maybe you should drive the car instead before bashing it, you don't pay 40k for the interior only. My M235i feels great inside, from the comfort of the seat to the actual materials because I don't expect a 2 series to feel like a 7 series.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Why is it always the Mustang owners crashing the exact same way? Anyway, have to disagree with the BMW interior. I've been in Miatas, like yours and the new one and it doesn't even come close to the 2 series in quality, I think you're just over reacting. There seems to be a stupid amount of unreasonable BMW hate in this thread. Yeah the interior isn't exciting to look at but I don't see where you saw the 90's era plastics that feel like a Miata. Maybe elaborate a bit? Also for 40k maybe you should drive the car instead before bashing it, you don't pay 40k for the interior only. My M235i feels great inside, from the comfort of the seat to the actual materials because I don't expect a 2 series to feel like a 7 series.

He's talking about the center console. It's a common complaint, which I find largely...weird since we're talking about a car that starts in the mid-$30K range. For what it offers, it's just fine. Admittedly, the doors do close a bit cheaply on them, but again....it's an entry level BMW coupe, it's not going to close like an S-Class Coupe, for example. Quality of materials on the LCI 3-series (which shared a lot of parts with the 2-series) has been increased, and I expect the same for the 2-series when it's time for its refresh.

 

[SliChillax]

He's talking about the center console. It's a common complaint, which I find largely...weird since we're talking about a car that starts in the mid-$30K range. For what it offers, it's just fine. Admittedly, the doors do close a bit cheaply on them, but again....it's an entry level BMW coupe, it's not going to close like an S-Class Coupe, for example. Quality of materials on the LCI 3-series (which shared a lot of parts with the 2-series) has been increased, and I expect the same for the 2-series when it's time for its refresh.

Reason for the doors it's because there is no window frame to hold the glass still when you close it so it vibrates, it's worse if your window is rolled down. I expect the refresh to improve quite a lot as they usually do but for now, I think the reaction was exaggerated. I wish the 2 series has an extended leather option like the M3/4 has, my friends M4 had it and it felt so good.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Reason for the doors it's because there is no window frame to hold the glass still when you close it so it vibrates, it's worse if your window is rolled down. I expect the refresh to improve quite a lot as they usually do but for now, I think the reaction was exaggerated. I wish the 2 series has an extended leather option like the M3/4 has, my friends M4 had it and it felt so good.

Oh, I know why it closes the way it does. My 350Z use to close the same way. But my 370Z was tighter. Unfortunately, the 4-series tends to close the same way and my friend's complain about it all the time. On the other hand, my 335i Coupe closed very sturdily so it upset a lot of people when newer BMWs didn't quite maintain the luxurious close? They'll fix it, though. I know they will. And it's really not as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[SliChillax]

So I need an opinion. The M2 will be out soon and I expect the value of the M235i to go down a lot. Should I sell my M235i as soon as possible or keep it and wait for the M3 to become more affordable and get it with 20k miles max? My problem is that I don't know which I prefer more, the M2 or M3/4.

 

[jongkookie]

My complaint isn't with the driving experience, it's the interior I'm complaining about. I know BMW's drive really good, I drove a crapton of them when I was working as a valet through college.

Here's the exact listing for the car: http://www.classicbmw.com/new/BMW/2016-BMW-228i-66c25c0e0a0e0a17714745fbd6cec954.htm

I was off by $1K, but I just still find it unreal that a $44k car actually has a cheap interior that you can find in Fords, GM's, Mazdas, Toyotas, Hondas... etc. in 2016. That's really my big problem with it.

Yeah I know the new Miata's interior doesn't match up to BMW's, but the Miata is $33K at most and even then your average Miata owner doesn't give a rats ass about the interior. If we could drive it without a proper interior to save weight, we'd fncking do it! But this is a BMW we're talking about, it needs to have a semblance of luxury despite being $44K, sub $40K or whatever. If I was coming from a shitty car, like a Miata, and to a 2 series, I'd expect something more luxurious... not something that isn't really an upgrade.

That plastic-fantastic part I'm talking about is indeed the center console and also the entire dashboard. How can Mazda afford to use soft-touch materials for the entire dashboard of the CX-5(a CUV that goes up to also $33K at most) yet BMW can't do it for the 228i?

I know they're completely different cars and nobody will cross shop them, but if I sat in a CX-5 after sitting in that 228i, I'd come away impressed and feel that the CX-5 is more luxurious than the 228i.

I'm not saying that the Miata is the answer to everything

Spoiler

(even though it really is )

or that Mazda is the superior brand out of everyone else in the world... but it just really boggles my mind how BMW can't even afford to fake luxury in the bottom-end of their cars. That's all I'm really asking for here.

 

[grendelrt]

11 pictures out of the 60 shots I took. That's kinda how bad it was today, so here's like a handful of my faves:

So sexy, I have always wanted to build a 240 or 280 but they are so hard to find non rusted to hell.

 

[nib95]

Holy crap...are you trolling me? I'm legitimately curious. Did YOU even read and watch the links you posted? Those links and the video review (which btw you posted a BROKEN link of) are comparing 4-cylinders. The 330i is a 2.0L. The Jag XE R-Sport is just a body kit with the 2.0L. They're all 2.0s in these tests. Not 6 cylinders. Let me see you spin that as me twisting something or other to fit my agenda and bias.

Both Australian links reviewed the 2.0s across the board, including the Mercedes. The video review picks the Lexus but says it's not the best handling or the sportiest (they state the XE is, meanwhile) and that it's engine is downright lackluster (contrary to the XE's and BMW's). They picked the Lexus because it was the most comfortable to drive, most compliant suspension of the 4 and the cheapest - but were unsure of the Jaguar's maintenance because it was so new. That was why it won. But they specifically said for "outright driving enjoyment the Jaguar is our pick". So if driving enjoyment is not what you value, get the Lexus. If it is, get the Jaguar. Their words, not mine.

So before you chastise me for not reading, you should actually double check what you've posted. Because as I said many posts ago, everything you posted was diesels and 4-bangers. Categories Jaguar will not be winning right now because their petrol 2.0s SUCK and are still old Ford engines that will be replaced early 2017 with all new Jaguar Ingenium motors making ~265HP/260lbs ft of TQ with forged internals, and lightweight blocks.

Whoops, it was a typo. I'm well aware that they're not 3 litre engines, hell my company car is an X5 40d M sport, which as you know is actually a 3 litre engine. What I meant was that they were the mid upper sized petrol engines, not diesel, which you implied in a previous post. They're also not all British reviews. The last two, are Australian.

And regarding the comparison, I agree with everything you said, but you're still cherry picking. Ultimately the BMW still came ahead of the XE, because in their opinion it still had a very good ride, but also had added practicality over the Jag. Obviously the Lexus won for the reasons mentioned.

In the other Australian mega comparison, which also compares the 330i model, the BMW comes out on top of all the others. Presumably you checked that comparison out too. It's the most comprehensive out of the bunch. This was their final breakdown.

Lastly, comparing the XE 25t to the 330i is still a much better, more current and direct comparison than comparing the XE-S with the 335i, in terms of horsepower, performance, cost etc.

 

[Stinkles]

They have outdone themselves with the interior. Take note Japanese manufacturers.

Mazda interiors (for the money) are always pretty stellar, but I am not a fan of the Merc style pop up monitor.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Whoops, it was a typo. I'm well aware that they're not 3 litre engines, hell my company car is an X5 40d M sport, which as you know is actually a 3 litre engine. What I meant was that they were the mid upper sized petrol engines, not diesel, which you implied in a previous post. They're also not all British reviews. The last two, are Australian.

And regarding the comparison, I agree with everything you said, but you're still cherry picking. Ultimately the BMW still came ahead of the XE, because in their opinion it still had a very good ride, but also had added practicality over the Jag. Obviously the Lexus won for the reasons mentioned.

In the other Australian mega comparison, which also compares the 330i model, the BMW comes out on top of all the others. Presumably you checked that comparison out too. It's the most comprehensive out of the bunch. This was their final breakdown.



Lastly, comparing the XE 25t to the 330i is still a much better, more current and direct comparison than comparing the XE-S with the 335i, in terms of horsepower, performance, cost etc.

I saw it all. I actually laughed that they placed the IS200 dead last because it scored extremely well. That typically makes me question a publication's scoring chart and credibility, just my personal and professional opinion - in my 10+ years of writing I've never done something like that. If they rated the IS that much better than the Jag...then they should've given the Lexus its proper due and not short change it.

 

[DirtyManos]

Yep. Returning the old XF for this one. Really looking forward to it. Just have to wait a little bit for the order.

So I'm actually looking to buy a Jaguar XE 35t (S) R-Sport this year, but in a very specific configuration. Basically, I want it in blue (Dark Sapphire or Bluefire, have to see it in person first to make the choice) and the only extra option I want is the Adaptive Dynamics. The Tech Package is interesting, but I'd have to see it in person to see if it's worth it.

Here's a pdf of the exact configuration: Link

Seeing as how you have experience with Jag dealers, how did you go about getting your order? Is it just you tell them what you want, and they search for an exact (or close enough) match from other dealers and then deliver you that car, or will they actually "build" your spec?

How does this affect your price? Is the sticker cheaper because you don't have dealer fees? I don't want to have to maneuver around options I don't want on the car that only serve to drive the price up.

 

[ameratsu]

C&C Dallas kinda sucked. It was fnckin cold and we got there there a little late so the fancier cars were streaming out.

Then some dipshit in a Mustang(of course it was a Mustang lol) spun out trying to leave the parking lot and basically ended the festivities so eh.

I'll post the pics later when I get home and my thoughts about BMW's since we ended up chilling inside the dealership the rest of the time lol.

Think i found the video, lol

 

[Xdye7]

Speaking of doofuses, here's that dipshit Mustang I was talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgqmKfZ75R8

Think i found the video, lol

lol

 

[ascii42]

Seeing as how you have experience with Jag dealers, how did you go about getting your order? Is it just you tell them what you want, and they search for an exact (or close enough) match from other dealers and then deliver you that car, or will they actually "build" your spec?

I ordered a Cadillac ATS a couple weeks ago. Basically it went like you think. First, they searched for exact (or close enough) from other dealers. When none were found how I wanted (or was willing to accept), they had me sign a sheet that listed out how I wanted it, and placed the order with Cadillac.

 

[nib95]

I saw it all. I actually laughed that they placed the IS200 dead last because it scored extremely well. That typically makes me question a publication's scoring chart and credibility, just my personal and professional opinion - in my 10+ years of writing I've never done something like that. If they rated the IS that much better than the Jag...then they should've given the Lexus its proper due and not short change it.

Well, that's sort of like the age old video game scoring argument, where a game gets a 10 in graphics, a 10 in sound, and a 5 in gameplay, and some people critique the outlet for not making the final score 8.3. Simply put, some things are more important than others, and it's not necessarily about averages. There's also things not specifically covered in the summarised scores, like aesthetics, cool factor, and the reasons why they likely pit the Jag above the Lexus, namely dynamics and drivetrain.

But it is a good comparison. I like that they reviewed the sound systems too. I mentioned earlier that I thought the BMW default audio system in the new 3 GT had improved in a big way, and imo was even better than upgraded systems on other BMW's and vehicles, and that comparison confirmed my thoughts. They placed the 3 series sound system in second place, only below the optional extra upgraded Lexus system. In general, more car manufacturers need to learn that paying more for a sound system doesn't just mean you want bloated bass. It's about balance, detail and articulation.

In case anyone has lost the train of conversation, this is the comparison being discussed.

BMW 330i v XE 25t R-Sport v Lexus IS200t F Sport v Mercedes-Benz C250 Comparison Review

 

[SliChillax]

My complaint isn't with the driving experience, it's the interior I'm complaining about. I know BMW's drive really good, I drove a crapton of them when I was working as a valet through college.

Here's the exact listing for the car: http://www.classicbmw.com/new/BMW/2016-BMW-228i-66c25c0e0a0e0a17714745fbd6cec954.htm

I was off by $1K, but I just still find it unreal that a $44k car actually has a cheap interior that you can find in Fords, GM's, Mazdas, Toyotas, Hondas... etc. in 2016. That's really my big problem with it.

Yeah I know the new Miata's interior doesn't match up to BMW's, but the Miata is $33K at most and even then your average Miata owner doesn't give a rats ass about the interior. If we could drive it without a proper interior to save weight, we'd fncking do it! But this is a BMW we're talking about, it needs to have a semblance of luxury despite being $44K, sub $40K or whatever. If I was coming from a shitty car, like a Miata, and to a 2 series, I'd expect something more luxurious... not something that isn't really an upgrade.

That plastic-fantastic part I'm talking about is indeed the center console and also the entire dashboard. How can Mazda afford to use soft-touch materials for the entire dashboard of the CX-5(a CUV that goes up to also $33K at most) yet BMW can't do it for the 228i?

I know they're completely different cars and nobody will cross shop them, but if I sat in a CX-5 after sitting in that 228i, I'd come away impressed and feel that the CX-5 is more luxurious than the 228i.

I'm not saying that the Miata is the answer to everything

Spoiler

(even though it really is )

or that Mazda is the superior brand out of everyone else in the world... but it just really boggles my mind how BMW can't even afford to fake luxury in the bottom-end of their cars. That's all I'm really asking for here.

You pay for different things in each car. Yeah so what if the CX5 has a better interior, does it also handle as well or go as fast? No, so you shouldn't compare it. Can it be better? Yes. Is it scandalous for what the car is? No.

 

[Zerokku]

So in my continuing adventures of first time car buying/research I decided to pop by some local lots just down the street from me to see what they had in my range/in general. Test drove two cars. 2013 Nissan Sentra SL. Highest trim level and already down to 13.5k. Are nissans that bad at depreciation? That being said, It was a comfortable ride, I liked how it handled and I really liked it for what it was. Brakes seemed super sensitive but something I could get used to, and probably feel so different because of how bad my current car's are. Afterwards I drove a 2015 Toyotta Corolla. Baseline model.

...Holy shit that car felt cheap. Everything about it just felt like it was basically lowest quality. Like the only decent thing was the size of the infotainment system screen, but even then that didn't impress especially seeing how it all fit together. I mean the car was one I was only remotely thinking about because of how common it is for first time buyers but... damn. The acceloration on the free way didn't feel too bad but turning corners and the handling in general just felt completely lifeless. Like the car exists to get you from point A to point B and not care one whit about anything else. And I get that its supposed to be an easy entry level car but.. I just walked away from that car completely disappointed.