You and I must Shepard the blind.
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Avatar Community |OT| Live. Die. Repeat.
- Thread starter Trey
- Start date
FeenixRising
Banned
No wonder that finale felt like watching a full three hour RAW.
JadedWriter
Member
No amount of bullshit can get me to say I liked the end of season 2.
Infinite Justice
Member
It might be possible but then it becomes another discussion on what is considered canon and how the saying is usually said in the realm of "official" capacity.
*shrug*.
Also to this current discussion:
Stockholm Syndrome in full effect i say, season 2 was trash
I didn't really mean anything about canon by it. I'm just saying, if those guys can do it, there's no reason that Mike and Bryan couldn't have.
my guy you know that shit was dope. The finale was a hot mess in sum, but never can you nor should you deny that last fight.
goat
JadedWriter
Member
my guy you know that shit was dope. The finale was a hot mess in sum, but never can you nor should you deny that last fight.
goat
Damn statight. Music owned in that scene, too.my guy you know that shit was dope. The finale was a hot mess in sum, but never can you nor should you deny that last fight.
goat
This isn't Stockholm Syndrome. I watched books 1-2 completely divorced from public opinion. It really is that awesome.
FeenixRising
Banned
my guy you know that shit was dope. The finale was a hot mess in sum, but never can you nor should you deny that last fight.
woat
Fixed
JadedWriter
Member
JadedWriter
Member
JadedWriter
Member
You have no idea what dog shit is till you've witnessed the downward spiral that is Naruto.
Icyflamez96
Member
Naruto was good until Shippuden.
JadedWriter
Member
This is true. I call Shippuden "Shitpooden" for a reason. It really got bad during the War arc though. Not to mention the Pain finale.
It was decent. It was good in parts, bt it doesn't hold up in retropect. A lot of it was set up for a future that was never to be. You get a half rotten apple, then it's a rotten apple. Naruto part 1 maybe nicely done in some ways, I won't dispute that, but for it to be good, it would have to be good in tandem with part 2. There's just no way around that for me.
FeenixRising
Banned
I'd much rather talk about Freezing
JadedWriter
Member
FeenixRising
Banned
Random tits the anime? Nobody needs to talk about that shit. Ever.
When did you ever complain about random tits?
JadedWriter
Member
When it was in Freezing. Unless I'm watching porn or hentai I like my tits to have context.
SilentMatthew
Member
Season 2 finale stanning heh. The cycle will never end.
Icyflamez96
Member
Beginnings is still super overrated.
SilentMatthew
Member
Only because of the context of its surrounding episodes and the season itself. Need to rewatch it now fresh to give any real detailed thoughts on how the lore was expanded. Though this kinda reminds me how different Spirits were portrayed in ATLA compared to TLOK. Far less "alien" and more... cutesy? Dunno.
m_shortpants
Member
Season 2 ending was bad
No gifs can save you
No gifs can save you
Yeah, they're basically pokemon in LoK.
Needless to say, I preferred the TLA version.
Icyflamez96
Member
I like both depictions.
you're overrated
The Scollard
Member
Megidolaon
Member
So I recently got back into Avatar again after a long time. And I have to agree with a lot of the criticisms of LoK. I thought the show was above average as a stand alone action anime show, but compared to ATLA, it really does not fair well.
I loved Avatar, especially Season 2, it is just incredible. The philosophical and spiritual aspects, and the depth of the characters, the humor all blew me away. I didn't like Book 3 as much, but it had its moments.
So I was wondering why I hated the comics and why LoK just had nowhere near the level of thought provoking writing or emotional investment. I recently found out about Aaron Ehasz, and then it all made sense. I found out that he had all these ideas for the series and even a Book 4 that never happened. And I just feel like ranting.
I loved Avatar, especially Season 2, it is just incredible. The philosophical and spiritual aspects, and the depth of the characters, the humor all blew me away. I didn't like Book 3 as much, but it had its moments.
So I was wondering why I hated the comics and why LoK just had nowhere near the level of thought provoking writing or emotional investment. I recently found out about Aaron Ehasz, and then it all made sense. I found out that he had all these ideas for the series and even a Book 4 that never happened. And I just feel like ranting.
GamingOblivion
Banned
I'm cool not having a Book 4. I would love a source on those What ideas though.
Megidolaon
Member
Well, this is info from a lot of people on Tumblr. There was a class lecture that Aaon Ehasz did at UCB, here is the link to prove it is real.
http://www.decal.org/courses/1905
And here are the links to what was apparently said at the class.
http://terminaschosenone.tumblr.com/post/140476340821/kataraandzuko-zuzusexytiems-kataraandzuko
Exerpts:
“If we had another season then there would be more stuff about Iroh’s past” - Ehasz wanted to write a two-part flashback episode about Iroh’s transformation into the person he is today. It would feature the siege of Ba Sing Se, Lu Ten’s death, and his travels around both the mortal and spirit world.
“Toph fixing her own issues” - Toph learns to heal from the emotional abuse she endured from her parents and repairs their relationship. She needed some character development when it came to mellowing out her harsh personality. Katara’s motherly influence helped her but Toph needed to deal with the direct cause. Ehasz loves Toph (he basically created her) and was upset that she remained so static throughout the series.
“I wanted to develop this subtle romance between two of the main characters but I don’t think Mike and Bryan would have been too happy about that.” - It’s pretty obvious what couple he is talking about with this line. Ehasz always wanted to make Zuko/Katara canon or at least develop it much more than what was shown in the actual series, but Bryke would fight with him about it. This was why the chance of Katara ending up with either Zuko or Aang was 50-50 even mid-way through the third season. Yes, this means the “Zuko was originally going to be the love interest for Katara” and “The writers and creators toyed with the idea of Zuko and Katara falling in love” Avatar Extras are completely true. The cancellation of the fourth season and Shyamalan’s complaints about how indecisive Bryke were about who Katara was going to end up with led the Nick execs to step in and push for Katara/Aang because that was what they concluded as being most suitable for young children. The resulting draft for the finale ended up with Katara/Aang and lot of people in the writing room were surprised since they believed Zuko/Katara was the better choice. Bryke wanted Katara and Aang to passionately kiss to symbolize a marriage and make them look “definite”. This is in contrast with Ehasz who just wanted a sweet scene near the end where Zuko and Katara talked about how much the world had changed to foreshadow a future between them.
Another link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160204232755/http://zephyrita.tumblr.com/tagged/avatar-info
Exerpts:
Aaron Ehasz has said some stuff about it:
“Fire cannot exist without air.” There would have -ideally, according to Aaron- been more emphasis on the interplay of fire and air as elements.
Likewise, Aaron believes that in terms of bending/elements/nations, it is possible for a random different element bender to pop up. (A waterbender in a family of firebenders, for example) but it would be LIKE, SO VERY RARE. And it would have been taken in a darker, more genocidal angle, so it wasn’t touched on or even canon-a-fied.
On that note though, Aaron believes a good springboard for finding more Airbenders was the fire nation, repeating that “Fire cannot exist without air.”
There were a bunch of things cut or never made it in. The Avatar staff never said Aang would meet the surviving airbenders, but there were groups of airbenders who managed to flee the genocide and hide up in the mountains (so not all of them died in the initial attack). They may have largely died out or intermarried with local populations before Aang’s release from the iceberg as the Fire Nation put large bounties on the heads of refugee airbenders. We could have seen them if Book 4 was made because Aang was constantly searching for them but now we’ll never know and Legend of Korra has gone with an ass pull about airbenders returning because of Harmonic Convergence lol.
As for the two episodes I mentioned:
- An episode dedicated to Iroh in the Siege of Ba Sing Se. His transformation from a ruthless heir apparent prince to a broken general who stepped down from the line of succession after his son’s death and the realisation that he was a horrible person.
- An episode about Aang’s parents, with his mother being pregnant, and later giving birth. Avatar Roku dies approx. a week before Aang’s birth so the Air Nomads are looking for the next Avatar and they identity Aang as it. He spends a very short time with his parents before he is taken away to be raised in the Southern Air Temple and is too young to remember anything about them.
Aang’s parents were actually something they planned to reveal within the series ever since Book 1 but they were cut out due to time constraints. You only get to see a shadowy figure of Aang’s mother in Book 3. They would have fit very well within the possible Book 4 where Aang became “dark” and traveled back to the Air Temples for solace (where he examines himself, and finds a bunch of flying bison + winged lemur), but we all know that never came to be. Iroh and Lu Ten’s backstories were also going to be explored, and that would have fit great in Book 3, but I guess they exchanged all of that for filler episodes and poor pacing.
Another link
http://araeph.tumblr.com/post/139818544775/conversation-i-had-with-aaron-ehasz-in
Exerpts:
Me: What was working on Avatar like?
Ehasz: I loved working on Avatar. It was a great learning experience and it had an incredibly passionate team behind it. I can't believe it's been over ten years since it premiered.
Me: Was there anything you weren't too happy about the series, or anything you wanted to change?
Ehasz: Overall I was very happy with Avatar but yes, there are a lot of things I would change...I didn't always agree with Mike and Bryan. It's their work and I can respect that, but there was so much left to explore.
Me: What did you want to explore?
Ehasz: Powerful and specialised airbending techniques. I thought it was unfair that all the bending arts except air got this cool sub-skill. I wanted Aang to defeat Ozai and go through some emotional turmoil after taking the Fire Lord's bending...but I couldn't...since as we all know, that was the last episode of the show. If we had another season then there would be more stuff about Iroh's past, Toph fixing her own issues...and I wanted to develop this subtle romance between two of the main characters but I don't think Mike and Bryan would have been too happy about that. *laughs* I saw Legend of Korra and some of the comics and the vision that they [Mike and Bryan] present is totally different from my own. I would have had these stories play out very differently.
Me: I'm sad we never got more than three seasons
Ehasz: Me too. We could have done more a long time ago. It's pretty much impossible now with the ownership change and laws in place. I hope somebody buys it from Viacom and hires me again. *laughs*
One more link about Ehasz thpughts on Korra:
http://supremequeenofthenerds.tumbl...ron-ehasz-had-some-really-interesting-ideas-i
One more link about Ehasz' ideas for a Zuko/Katara relationship:
http://accioelements.tumblr.com/post/141009753502/zephyrita-deathatintervals-zephyrita/embed
http://www.decal.org/courses/1905
And here are the links to what was apparently said at the class.
http://terminaschosenone.tumblr.com/post/140476340821/kataraandzuko-zuzusexytiems-kataraandzuko
Exerpts:
“If we had another season then there would be more stuff about Iroh’s past” - Ehasz wanted to write a two-part flashback episode about Iroh’s transformation into the person he is today. It would feature the siege of Ba Sing Se, Lu Ten’s death, and his travels around both the mortal and spirit world.
“Toph fixing her own issues” - Toph learns to heal from the emotional abuse she endured from her parents and repairs their relationship. She needed some character development when it came to mellowing out her harsh personality. Katara’s motherly influence helped her but Toph needed to deal with the direct cause. Ehasz loves Toph (he basically created her) and was upset that she remained so static throughout the series.
“I wanted to develop this subtle romance between two of the main characters but I don’t think Mike and Bryan would have been too happy about that.” - It’s pretty obvious what couple he is talking about with this line. Ehasz always wanted to make Zuko/Katara canon or at least develop it much more than what was shown in the actual series, but Bryke would fight with him about it. This was why the chance of Katara ending up with either Zuko or Aang was 50-50 even mid-way through the third season. Yes, this means the “Zuko was originally going to be the love interest for Katara” and “The writers and creators toyed with the idea of Zuko and Katara falling in love” Avatar Extras are completely true. The cancellation of the fourth season and Shyamalan’s complaints about how indecisive Bryke were about who Katara was going to end up with led the Nick execs to step in and push for Katara/Aang because that was what they concluded as being most suitable for young children. The resulting draft for the finale ended up with Katara/Aang and lot of people in the writing room were surprised since they believed Zuko/Katara was the better choice. Bryke wanted Katara and Aang to passionately kiss to symbolize a marriage and make them look “definite”. This is in contrast with Ehasz who just wanted a sweet scene near the end where Zuko and Katara talked about how much the world had changed to foreshadow a future between them.
Another link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160204232755/http://zephyrita.tumblr.com/tagged/avatar-info
Exerpts:
Aaron Ehasz has said some stuff about it:
“Fire cannot exist without air.” There would have -ideally, according to Aaron- been more emphasis on the interplay of fire and air as elements.
Likewise, Aaron believes that in terms of bending/elements/nations, it is possible for a random different element bender to pop up. (A waterbender in a family of firebenders, for example) but it would be LIKE, SO VERY RARE. And it would have been taken in a darker, more genocidal angle, so it wasn’t touched on or even canon-a-fied.
On that note though, Aaron believes a good springboard for finding more Airbenders was the fire nation, repeating that “Fire cannot exist without air.”
There were a bunch of things cut or never made it in. The Avatar staff never said Aang would meet the surviving airbenders, but there were groups of airbenders who managed to flee the genocide and hide up in the mountains (so not all of them died in the initial attack). They may have largely died out or intermarried with local populations before Aang’s release from the iceberg as the Fire Nation put large bounties on the heads of refugee airbenders. We could have seen them if Book 4 was made because Aang was constantly searching for them but now we’ll never know and Legend of Korra has gone with an ass pull about airbenders returning because of Harmonic Convergence lol.
As for the two episodes I mentioned:
- An episode dedicated to Iroh in the Siege of Ba Sing Se. His transformation from a ruthless heir apparent prince to a broken general who stepped down from the line of succession after his son’s death and the realisation that he was a horrible person.
- An episode about Aang’s parents, with his mother being pregnant, and later giving birth. Avatar Roku dies approx. a week before Aang’s birth so the Air Nomads are looking for the next Avatar and they identity Aang as it. He spends a very short time with his parents before he is taken away to be raised in the Southern Air Temple and is too young to remember anything about them.
Aang’s parents were actually something they planned to reveal within the series ever since Book 1 but they were cut out due to time constraints. You only get to see a shadowy figure of Aang’s mother in Book 3. They would have fit very well within the possible Book 4 where Aang became “dark” and traveled back to the Air Temples for solace (where he examines himself, and finds a bunch of flying bison + winged lemur), but we all know that never came to be. Iroh and Lu Ten’s backstories were also going to be explored, and that would have fit great in Book 3, but I guess they exchanged all of that for filler episodes and poor pacing.
Another link
http://araeph.tumblr.com/post/139818544775/conversation-i-had-with-aaron-ehasz-in
Exerpts:
Me: What was working on Avatar like?
Ehasz: I loved working on Avatar. It was a great learning experience and it had an incredibly passionate team behind it. I can't believe it's been over ten years since it premiered.
Me: Was there anything you weren't too happy about the series, or anything you wanted to change?
Ehasz: Overall I was very happy with Avatar but yes, there are a lot of things I would change...I didn't always agree with Mike and Bryan. It's their work and I can respect that, but there was so much left to explore.
Me: What did you want to explore?
Ehasz: Powerful and specialised airbending techniques. I thought it was unfair that all the bending arts except air got this cool sub-skill. I wanted Aang to defeat Ozai and go through some emotional turmoil after taking the Fire Lord's bending...but I couldn't...since as we all know, that was the last episode of the show. If we had another season then there would be more stuff about Iroh's past, Toph fixing her own issues...and I wanted to develop this subtle romance between two of the main characters but I don't think Mike and Bryan would have been too happy about that. *laughs* I saw Legend of Korra and some of the comics and the vision that they [Mike and Bryan] present is totally different from my own. I would have had these stories play out very differently.
Me: I'm sad we never got more than three seasons
Ehasz: Me too. We could have done more a long time ago. It's pretty much impossible now with the ownership change and laws in place. I hope somebody buys it from Viacom and hires me again. *laughs*
One more link about Ehasz thpughts on Korra:
http://supremequeenofthenerds.tumbl...ron-ehasz-had-some-really-interesting-ideas-i
One more link about Ehasz' ideas for a Zuko/Katara relationship:
http://accioelements.tumblr.com/post/141009753502/zephyrita-deathatintervals-zephyrita/embed
FeenixRising
Banned
Actual Avatar discussion?! I am offended.
Megidolaon
Member
Sorry about that. I'm new here
Megidolaon
Member
I know right!? I was shocked, but I always did like them together ever since Crossroads of Destiny..
PoeticProse22
Member
Despite several fairly interesting ideas (Katara/Zuko notwithstanding), I definitely prefer the ending as is.
JadedWriter
Member
Zuko was a better dad than Aang.
Infinite Justice
Member
to think that scenario of being a shit dad would have caught him, thank god he dodged that bullet. LOL
i thought Ehasz was the chosen one but that Kutara shit relgates him to shitty Anakin tier
GamingOblivion
Banned
EDIT:
Okay, after reading through some of those blogs, a lot of what I'm reading sounds like fangirl bullshit. I see randoms on tumblr claiming to be assistant writers during Book 2 who claim to know all the interpersonal relationships between the writers, plus what their shipping affiliation is. The blogs go on to call Mike & Bryan liars and perpetuate some HILARIOUS revisionist history that Avatar was "always planned" as a four season show and the fourth book was cancelled for the live action movie trilogy. That literally makes no sense and has no basis in reality. It's like these people took a few comments by Ehasz over the years and created their own reality that supports their ship. Notice that these are all Zutara blogs or "antiKataang" blogs?
Shit. The fandom has taken a huge dive since the '06-'08 days.
EDIT2:
"Bryke, as much as I respect their creativity and the beautiful world they’ve given us, if you’re not kowtowing to their greatness and/or criticizing their narrative they really tend to not care that you exist as a fan. " lol
Someone says something that Ehasz says [Note: no video, btw, only interpretation and heresay from people who attended a lesson or chatted with him]
Then someone misinterprets that
Then it gets repeated over and over
And the message gets changed
And now Book 4 was supposed to be planned from the beginning and Nick cancels the fourth season for M Night and they retroactively claim there was 3 from the beginning
Tumblr is basically an echo chamber and it's filled with the above bullshit
EDIT3:
OH and now some people are claiming that there may have been a chance of a Book 5 lol
get the fuck out with this real life fanfiction
JadedWriter
Member
That would've character assassinated his entire character arc. How the hell Zuko going to be a shit dad when he had all of that time to learn from Iroh and witness what having a shit dad did to him and Azula. That's Naruto tier bad writing.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Zutara was never a good idea. Ever.