SilentMatthew
Member
Good to hear you finally went through the SU gauntlet. Just ignore it being a comedy and you'll be good (that being one of your complaints if I recall).
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Avatar Community |OT| Live. Die. Repeat.
- Thread starter Trey
- Start date
Good to hear you finally went through the SU gauntlet. Just ignore it being a comedy and you'll be good (that being one of your complaints if I recall).
Infinite Justice
Member
Nice to see you are enjoying it given your seemingly picky nature.
And yea the beginning isn't really strong but i personally didn't mind it since it was just silly.
JadedWriter
Member
Now there's a name I haven't seen in a very long ass time.
I'm right here.
FeenixRising
Banned
Nobody is talking about you
Icyflamez96
Member
I'm talking about him.
JadedWriter
Member
Me, too.
JadedWriter
Member
FeenixRising
Banned
Sure. Whatever you say
This works on so many levels for our community.
m_shortpants
Member
Bataar Jr
Discuss
Discuss
Code:
[IMG]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/609/800px-Yamcha_found_dead.jpg[/IMG]JadedWriter
Member
At least Bataar got the girl. Yamcha tier is like the lowest tier, the bugs under the rock are stepping on you if you're Yamcha tier.
Icyflamez96
Member
Anyone watching Dragon Ball Super
JadedWriter
Member
I haven't seen a single episode of it. I've seen the two movies though.
FeenixRising
Banned
English dub when?
SilentMatthew
Member
Non. Maybe when the English dub is done I will give it a try.
Icyflamez96
Member
How do you enjoy the movies? I thought Battle of Gods was a great way to continue the series. RoF was was pretty unnecessary and had issues, but still found it fun for the most part.
Yeah I don't know. The english voices are soo much better. I actually just watched parts of the BoG movie in English the other day. I'm pretty sure I watched it in English when it first came out, but since Super started, I've gotten a lot more accustomed to Goku's Japanese voice japanese voice. I associate Super's more "goofy" portrayal of Goku with the japanese voice actor. So going back to scenes in BoG with the english voice acting was so refreshing. It's amazing how much noticeably more talented his voice actor is when compared to the majority of BDZ stuff. I'm super interested to watch the dub when it comes out. I need more of that English cast goodness in my life.
Icyflamez96
Member
I wish we had this vibe for longer.
JadedWriter
Member
I found them to be alright. DBZ stopped being a favorite of mine years ago.
Serenade_King
Banned
Yep, to me Season 1 would have been perfect if it didn't include the forced love triangle. I even like that the defeat of Amon wasn't just because of Korra beating him on a fight making it seem more natural instead of a big "anime" battle (if you guys know what I mean).
GamingOblivion
Banned
I miss Republic City. I miss those city noir vibes. As good as Season 3 and some of season 4 was, Season 1 just had this special identity that was somehow lost in the shuffle. I would have been fine with 3-4 seasons in the City and never leaving it.
m_shortpants
Member
Season 1 was the best.
We didn't need more world exploration. We needed gritty, steampunk, underworld Republic City.
There was so much promise with the gangs and mobs. It was overshadowed in S1 due to Amon but it would have been so much cooler to see the fallout post-Amon in later seasons.
Or they could've just left Season 1 and not done anything else, that would have worked for me. None of the later seasons captured that vibe. Season 3 was good and definitely got the closest, mainly due to Ba Sing Se, but we never quite got it back.
We didn't need more world exploration. We needed gritty, steampunk, underworld Republic City.
There was so much promise with the gangs and mobs. It was overshadowed in S1 due to Amon but it would have been so much cooler to see the fallout post-Amon in later seasons.
Or they could've just left Season 1 and not done anything else, that would have worked for me. None of the later seasons captured that vibe. Season 3 was good and definitely got the closest, mainly due to Ba Sing Se, but we never quite got it back.
m_shortpants
Member
Sure. I guess I just got enough of that from TLA. I kind of wanted something different but I suppose that wasn't a focus for Bryke and the direction they wanted to take the story.
JadedWriter
Member
The Avatar is a messianic figure to unite and protect the world, she's not a beat cop. I really wish they did a better job with the world exploration. At some point I did want to see the new fire nation, but I guess since they weren't ran by idiots the Avatar didn't need to step in and fix shit.
The thing is, I could totally see a series where an avatar spends their entire time in one place, sure. I just don't see how they can become a fully realized avatar in that space. Being the centerpoint of 4 disparate cultures feels like it'd require them to actually go and visit them. I know republic city has a little bit of all of them, but that wouldn't be enough.
So I can accept an entire show of Republic City, I just wouldn't want to see Korra be fully realized by the end of it.
*glares at ending of season 1*
So I can accept an entire show of Republic City, I just wouldn't want to see Korra be fully realized by the end of it.
*glares at ending of season 1*
GamingOblivion
Banned
I mean who says that an Avatar series has to do that besides your preconceived notions based on the one show before Korra? Just because Aang went on a globe trotting adventure that affected the entire world at large and got to see most of that world doesn't mean that Korra has to.
Korra was a different show in the beginning with its own unique vibe but basically became ATLA 2.0 by the end. THAT'S where I think it went wrong.
Personally I don't think the Avatar is needed in a world that they are heading towards post-show. I mean, look at our own society: if we had an Avatar, what the hell would they even be able to do? I think if those themes were explored in a season 2+ that didn't go in the direction of Avatar 2.0 it would have been really cool.
TangerineCloud
Banned
Agree with GamingOblivion. The waning relevance of the Avatar's position as a larger-than-life figure serving as the bridge between four cultures (and two worlds) was a pretty bold idea that was ripe for exploration. While the execution of that concept was obviously far from satisfactory, I respect the hell out of Bryke for at least attempting to take Korra in that direction. I don't think having Korra's journey become another set of international, cross-cultural tours would have been an interesting choice considering the state the Avatar universe was in at the beginning of Korra.
Logical inference?
The fundamental basis of the avatar is that he is the only one who has a clear understanding of different cultures. Name me a more effective way of learning to understand cultures other than living them. The Avatar pretty much NEEDS to be well traveled.
JadedWriter
Member
Yeah I will admit that when Korra's time came the civilization evolved to the point where the Avatar was barely relevant. A lot of it was just her trying to find her own reason to exist. In the world of politics everything just became too complicated for one person to figure out how to fix anything.
Really, that was a problem every avatar would face. That part is just kind of a suspension of disbelief because even if any given avatar wanted to be the global conflict resolver, it would be hard to see how every ruler would defer to him automatically or how they'd be able to communicate enough to be at every national meeting when travel of the older times, magic included, was harder.
FeenixRising
Banned
I must be in the wrong thread
GamingOblivion
Banned
That ignores the issue that I discussed earlier: that the world doesn't need Korra anymore. If the Avatar is essentially worthless in the modern culture that the Korra world is heading towards, why does she need to be well versed? Her just going through the motions makes sense, like you've argued, but it doesn't make for good TV if she just does what Aang did.
Icyflamez96
Member
That'd be great, but that's not in any way shape or form brought up in the actual show. Civilizations advanced, but none of them suggested that the avatar's role has become unnecessary. The only ones that say that are the Red Lotus, and they're argument was that the avatar (and all other forms of government) was never necessary in the first place.
I mean, I don't disagree that as the world advances and nations stablize, the avatar would become more and more of a figurehead, but it's not something the show even alluded to.
GamingOblivion
Banned
Oh you're absolutely right. I find this to be a huge misstep on the behalf of the showrunners.
TangerineCloud
Banned
I felt Legend of Korra, especially Book 1, questioned the importance of the Avatar and his/her role in society quite a bit.
Right off the bat, the existence of Republic City stands in defiance of one of the core obligations of the Avatar, the preservation of the four separate nations/cultures. Republic City is established when Zuko, and eventually Aang, decide that the benefits of cultural exchange and integration could outweigh the benefits of separation, decades before the events in Legend of Korra even take place. It's an enduring testament to the idea that the values the Avatar embodies are at worst misguided, and at best worth calling into question. That's Legend of Korra's primary setting.
On top of that, many of the societal conditions that would have necessitated the intervention of an Avatar have either become irrelevant or are now being addressed by villains *and* allies who now have the ability and determination to intervene in matters that would have previously been the responsibility of the Avatar alone. For example, there's no need for the Avatar as a spiritual leader when spirits no longer have a significant presence in society. Who needs the Avatar to be a global keeper of peace and balance when the Air Nomads can handle the job for the most part while Korra is incapacitated? In the cases of the anatagonists, Amon and Unalaq take it upon themselves to encroach upon the Avatar's duties after recognizing the failings of previous Avatars' visions for the world. While those two characters eventually turn to outright villainy, the show (and Korra herself) eventually treats their respective causes as correct and even noble. Hell, Unalaq's desire to undo the separation between the human world and the spirit world literally revives a culture that had been all but erased from the world due to genocide. And his ideology directly contradicted the wisdom of the very first Avatar! If that doesn't blatantly support the idea that maybe the role of the Avatar isn't as vital as it once was, then I don't know what does.
Also, Amon's Lieutenant explicitly states that the Avatar isn't necessary anymore.
And all that's just off the top of my head. I could probably come up with even more stuff that would support this as a recurring theme if I did another re-watch.
Right off the bat, the existence of Republic City stands in defiance of one of the core obligations of the Avatar, the preservation of the four separate nations/cultures. Republic City is established when Zuko, and eventually Aang, decide that the benefits of cultural exchange and integration could outweigh the benefits of separation, decades before the events in Legend of Korra even take place. It's an enduring testament to the idea that the values the Avatar embodies are at worst misguided, and at best worth calling into question. That's Legend of Korra's primary setting.
On top of that, many of the societal conditions that would have necessitated the intervention of an Avatar have either become irrelevant or are now being addressed by villains *and* allies who now have the ability and determination to intervene in matters that would have previously been the responsibility of the Avatar alone. For example, there's no need for the Avatar as a spiritual leader when spirits no longer have a significant presence in society. Who needs the Avatar to be a global keeper of peace and balance when the Air Nomads can handle the job for the most part while Korra is incapacitated? In the cases of the anatagonists, Amon and Unalaq take it upon themselves to encroach upon the Avatar's duties after recognizing the failings of previous Avatars' visions for the world. While those two characters eventually turn to outright villainy, the show (and Korra herself) eventually treats their respective causes as correct and even noble. Hell, Unalaq's desire to undo the separation between the human world and the spirit world literally revives a culture that had been all but erased from the world due to genocide. And his ideology directly contradicted the wisdom of the very first Avatar! If that doesn't blatantly support the idea that maybe the role of the Avatar isn't as vital as it once was, then I don't know what does.
Also, Amon's Lieutenant explicitly states that the Avatar isn't necessary anymore.
And all that's just off the top of my head. I could probably come up with even more stuff that would support this as a recurring theme if I did another re-watch.
Dude, the first episode literally has Tenzin basically stating that despite his best efforts, he can't keep republic city balanced and Korra is has to be the one to come fix it.
Also, you can't really use Republic City as an example of the lack of need for the Avatar when Aang is the one who built and maintained the city for most of it's existence.
TangerineCloud
Banned
I didn't say Republic City demonstrates lack of need; I said it demonstrates that the worldview traditionally enforced by the Avatar isn't infallible and isn't the only way of doing things. And for all its problems, none of Republic City's woes stem from the intermingling of cultures, which is the ideal the city was founded upon and the main point of that part of my argument.
As for Tenzin, he's repeatedly shown to be almost cartoonishly incompetent, often specifically because of his slavish adherence to tradition. Republic City is progressivism. It's not surprising that it failed to thrive under his leadership.
But Republic City IS his way of doing things. The avatar is all about disbanding of illusions of seperation, and that's what Republic City does, making itself to be the melting pot of all 3 nations.
If you're trying to make the case that the world can continue existing without the avatar, that's obviously true. It was true even before, because they needed to take a 20 year break every time an avatar died. But everything progressive about what makes Republic City what it is is due directly to the Avatar making an executive decision on what Republic City stands for: The merging of the nations.
FeenixRising
Banned
All this actual discussion is making my head hurt. Where is Jaded?