Avengers & X-Men: AXIS (OT) The Red Onslaught
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Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Pym went to jail though.
MHWilliams
Member
Funny thing is, I actually see it the opposite way. Cyclops was protected by the writers so that nothing he did would really be his fault. He then got to be the star of Uncanny X-Men and appear in many other books, including starring as a younger version of himself in a self-titled book.
Hank Pym was given no out by the writers, the slap was portrayed as part of his ongoing mental breakdown. He's been stuck with the reputation of a crazy, unstable person ever since (not undeservedly, mind you, based on the way he acted in the Silver Age).
The Scarlet Witch was not protected by the writers in any way; "no more mutants" was portrayed originally as entirely her fault, and every X-Book then blamed everything bad that happened to the X-Men on this horrible evil renegade mutant. She was then banned from comics for the better part of a decade. She was only allowed to come back after Bendis stopped writing the Avengers, and even since then, she hasn't had much to do except listen to what a bad person she is because of M-Day.
Maybe in-universe, Cyclops is being treated badly, but the ironic thing is, he's being treated badly because the writers are treating him extremely well. They want us to feel sympathetic toward him because he's being treated badly for something that isn't really his fault. Wanda was treated like crap by the writers and is only now, because of the MCU, getting to a point where she's not considered totally expendable.
In other words it's not so much that Avengers get a free pass, it's that Avengers writers are more likely than X-Men writers to treat characters like crap, making them do terrible things without any "out" that makes them still heroic. X-Men writers and editors are better about not taking a character to the point of unusability.
Manmademan
Member
you say this, but then we still have Hank McCoy. edit: Xavier wasn't far off from this point either before they killed him.
Hank's been taken to that point partly by the Avengers line, though. Of course he was a last-minute replacement for Xavier in New Avengers after Bendis killed Xavier off.
Xavier, okay, I'll give you that one. But then he's always had a creepy side from the beginning that some writers couldn't help adding to, like Hank Pym's tendency to screw up or Reed Richards' douchiness. The amazing thing is that the X-Men writers kept him so usable for so long.
MHWilliams
Member
This is why I didn't care when he died. The X-Men kicked him to the curb for being an ass years before.
The amazing thing about Xavier is that he's lasted as long as he has. The comic tried to kill him off in the 1960s because Marvel thought it was a drag having these young mutants always answer to an old bald guy. And it is a bit of a drag; kids don't like him because he's basically Dad. Yet every time they try to get him out of the book, he comes back.
Maybe it's that comic writers, who are often old bald guys, identify with him. Brian Vaughan said something to the effect that the Xavier/Danger story was his favorite part of Joss Whedon's run because he gets a personal thrill out of seeing a bald guy fight.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Well on top of those deaths at the moment of "no more mutants" there were like 200 mutants left from what was a few million. Marvel still hasn't given a number of how many have shown up since hope has come along.
And once again cyclops isn't without flaws Utopia was him pulling a family guy Peteria in San Francisco. And while he lives there he has openly associated with known villains like Magneto, White Queen, Magik, and eventually Beast. You are right owning the Avengers membership card is like having the ultimate get out of jail card for the 616. However, Cyclops isn't a saint.
To be fair Hank hasn't been this interesting in years. Between his fuck up in All New X men and his membership in the illuminati (which is just an evolution of his Avengers membership). Also the fact that he is the only original X-men against most what Scott's.
He's become a factor in storylines again (I mean shit we're talking about him) and it has added depth to his character. I mean yeah the result is hank has self doubt and is questioning himself both figuratively and literally. However, for a long time he was just simply the super smart Mutant scientist/doctor like Forge or Dr. Nemesis who would create whatever cure/gizmo was needed to keep the plot moving and that was it.
So I read last night;
That was freaking horrendous. No seriously. The only time I actually laughed was when Sabretooth told Havoc to man up and take back his boyscout badge. Everything else... is horrible. What the hell was the point of the inversion? I mean, Havoc being evil and douchey is just lame. And man, the part where Sabretooth writes that letter... come on.
That was freaking horrendous. No seriously. The only time I actually laughed was when Sabretooth told Havoc to man up and take back his boyscout badge. Everything else... is horrible. What the hell was the point of the inversion? I mean, Havoc being evil and douchey is just lame. And man, the part where Sabretooth writes that letter... come on.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
I could actually see Thanos saying this, so once again the avatar enhances the post.
Regular Havok sucked and I'd rather see more mutants on Cyclops' side than working for used by the Avengers in the horrible way Havok was. I honestly think the inversions are welcomed changes for those characters.
Manmademan
Member
This. the entire event was pointless. only a few things of substance actually occurred, sandwiched in between 9 issues of the worst comics I've read in decades. Marvel should be ashamed of themselves. Concept was trash, execution was trash.
Post AXIS, we have:
*Quicksilver and Scarlet witch paternity test!
*The X-men appear to be unified again, but this one was already coming to that conclusion in uncanny. Havok is out of the uncanny avengers and back with the Xmen.
*Doctor Voodoo is back? yay?
*Tony Stark remains an asshole. Sabretooth stays redeemed. Havok is practically a supervillain- kidnapping his own wife and whatever which makes sense since he looks the part with half his face messed up. This will last exactly as long as it takes for someone to remember Triage exists on Scott's team.
*The X-men appear to be unified again, but this one was already coming to that conclusion in uncanny. Havok is out of the uncanny avengers and back with the Xmen.
*Doctor Voodoo is back? yay?
*Tony Stark remains an asshole. Sabretooth stays redeemed. Havok is practically a supervillain- kidnapping his own wife and whatever which makes sense since he looks the part with half his face messed up. This will last exactly as long as it takes for someone to remember Triage exists on Scott's team.
I'm truly struggling to come to a conclusion as to why this event was necessary, other than "random events sell comics".
It's "worked" for DC for how many years now?
Manmademan
Member
It's really not working well for DC at all. other than Batman, nothing they have really moves issues.
here's the top 30 or so issues from november, everything above 50K copies-
1 Amazing Spider-Man 9 Marvel 135,280
2 All New Captain America Marvel 120,500
3 Batman 36 DC 115,183
4 Amazing Spider-Man 10 Marvel 100,899
5 Spider-Woman 1 Marvel 93,723
6 Thor 2 $3.99 Marvel 89,131
7 Superior Iron Man 1 Marvel 83,994
8 Avengers and X-Men Axis 4 Marvel 79,068
9 Avengers and X-Men Axis 5 Marvel 74,928
10 Justice League 36 DC 74,796
11 Avengers and X-Men Axis 6 Marvel 73,824
12 Harley Quinn 12 DC 71,245
13 Spider-Verse 1 Marvel 71,232
14 Walking Dead 134 Image 68,093
15 Superman Unchained 9 DC 65,478
16 Guardians of Galaxy 21 Marvel 62,387
17 Captain America and Mighty Avengers Marvel 60,206
18 Wonder Woman 36 DC 58,965
19 Wytches 2* Image 58,345
20 Detective Comics DC 58,171
21 Uncanny X-Men 28 Marvel 55,939
22 Batman and Robin DC 55,289
23 Avengers 38 Marvel 54,368
24 Rocket Raccoon Marvel 52,979
25 Superman 36 DC 52,272
26 Deadpool 37 Marvel 51,579
27 Multiversity Pax Americana DC 51,490
28 Batman Eternal 31 DC 51,133
29 Inhuman 8 Marvel 50,766
30 Batman Eternal 32 DC 50,709
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2014/2014-11.html
If we look at the top 30, DC has 11 books there, of which 6 are batman titles, or batman spinoffs like harley quinn. one is justice league which has batman in it. the remainder are superman and wonder woman books, with Pax Americana sticking out like a sore thumb. With all the events that DC has had recently, they're back to the status quo of nothing really selling but Batman.
This is...pretty bad. It's the number one reason why "Marvel is going to reboot" makes no sense, because DC has rebooted their universe several times by now and the most recent effort went over like a lead balloon. Why would marvel imitate this?
events by themselves can sell in the short term, but investing in your broader properties pays greater dividends in the long run. Spider Man is having a self contained event that's suprisingly good and outselling AXIS handily- in no small part because AXIS is hot trash and spider verse isn't. Thor isn't part of any event outside of "thor is a woman now" and Thor 2 is outselling all axis books for the month by a fair margin.
the message here is that pushing better books is preferable to just shoving random events out of the door.
edit: note that I'm aware these numbers are estimates and not exact, and don't account for digital sales but lets' just go with it for now.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
You know, there's a reason the black analogy still works.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
How long until somebody figures out Havok might still want to force wasp to have their daughter?
evil solrac v3.0
Member
doesn't negate the other points.
but Scott's people were on the verge of extinction. he had to take extreme measures in order to survive.
Eric the Red
Member
I had so much faith in Remeder too after his amazing X-Force run and then, eventually, making Uncanny Avengers my most anticipated for months.
What happened man? Is it just a rule that every EVENT has to be a hot mess? I think everyone's acting dumb, I don't sympathize with any of them, and the inversions are not interesting or nuanced at all. Inside of the concept there's a ripe subject on the nature of "good" and "evil" for the picking. Instead every inverted hero is now Hitler and every inverted villain is a Mother Teresa. Just watching it rot on the vine.
What happened man? Is it just a rule that every EVENT has to be a hot mess? I think everyone's acting dumb, I don't sympathize with any of them, and the inversions are not interesting or nuanced at all. Inside of the concept there's a ripe subject on the nature of "good" and "evil" for the picking. Instead every inverted hero is now Hitler and every inverted villain is a Mother Teresa. Just watching it rot on the vine.
Manmademan
Member
I thought about it, but I think this one is something that just *might* be a bit too much, even for marvel.
I'm reading my comments with a Josh Brolin voice now, lol.
... really? After the launch of Marvel NOW! I was pretty content with the direcction of Wolverine and the X-Men, X-Force and the first issues of Amazing X-Men, but after Aaron left the series as a whole cratered. They made everyone into unlikeable assholes. Even characters like Kitty Pryde, Storm and Ice Man became tiresome and just plain stupid. Uncanny has been hard to read because Cyclops is so full of himself in his shitty crusade "for the protection of mutantkind" that he lost sight of everything. Is he right about mankind fearing and giving no fucks about mutantkind? Sure. But his solutions are plain stupid as well. Evil Havok joining him will fuck over his team soon enough, can't wait.
Best X book right now is... Cyclops. The younger version. That's fun.
Maybe the Beyonder will fix all of this lol
NormanOsborngivingthedtogwenstacey
Aaron left after all the issues started and if anything I put a lot of the current issues with the X-Men on both Bendis and Aaron because of the way they were writing the characters. Also, Cyclops hasn't even done crap yet because Bendis is so freaking slow(He's still writing a Original Sin tie-in for goodness sake).
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Worse than TCC and that event with Odins brother that i refuse to acknowledge and wont type its name?
Manmademan
Member
Pretty much, yeah
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
didnt say it to negate other points, said it to make a point. pym is a anomaly. who else has had to suffer for their mistakes in marvel? across the board with mutants and supers.
you need to drop knowledge bullets. or say something negative about jean grey so omni gamer can show up like the phoenix and scorch the thread
SilentSoldier
Member
I don't know what TCC means, but I liked the event with Odins brother. The X-Men, iron man, FF books from that event were pretty good to great.
This Axis mess though, nope.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I mean they could package it as him kidnapping her in an attempt to make her "love" him again. If I remember right before he kidnapped her he mentioned how he still had feelings for her.
Yea Axis was definitely worse then that which shall not be named.
Coffee Dog
Banned
This event was justified by the tie ins. Deadpool, carnage, iron man, and hobgoblin are (or were) a lot of fun.
Deadpool alone was worth it. Oh, and in addition to the post-Axis stuff:
Deadpool has a lot of self-reflection and realizes that he's never happy.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
like whatever you want, just do not utter its name, the name of unholy mind on paper an pen.....ugh so bad.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Yeah, they really used the contrast of zenpool to further wade's arc, which is great.
I wish we got more time with zenpool though, it felt over too quickly.
Sounds like a job for Mark Millar.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
hopefully, marvel is smart enough not to let millar anywhere near it
I thought he already went through that years ago?
What about Frank Miller?
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
the way hes looking, i wouldnt bet on him either sadly
flaxknuckles
Member
Yep, like a bazillion runs ago
Still entertaining nonetheless!
Joy of comics, they can't do anything new
I remember the brilliant secret identity/culpability stuff in Bendis Daredevil run being stolen, and fucked up, in Civil War.
What else is there to say? Jean is terrible and X-men are leagues better when she isn't around.
I agree the deadpool tie ins were good, because the book is well written overall and duggan worked in the inversion in a way that furthered his story.
These events are such trash, though.
I hate when I'm trying to read a marvel superhero run and then after the first arc its four issues of some nonsense that derails everything.
I love comics and I love well-done superhero stuff, but I hate these awful events that are just reflective of a comic industry that still relies of a bizarre hold-over of 90s speculator/collectors to support itself.
These events are such trash, though.
I hate when I'm trying to read a marvel superhero run and then after the first arc its four issues of some nonsense that derails everything.
I love comics and I love well-done superhero stuff, but I hate these awful events that are just reflective of a comic industry that still relies of a bizarre hold-over of 90s speculator/collectors to support itself.
Manmademan
Member
I don't think the issue is that Jean is terrible- Jean is fine, as long as you burn the yellow pajamas in a fire somewhere. It's that Jean + Cyclops is one of the most boring, snoozeworthy pairings ever created in comic book history.
not so much.
I don't think the issue is that Jean is terrible- Jean is fine, as long as you burn the yellow pajamas in a fire somewhere. It's that Jean + Cyclops is one of the most boring, snoozeworthy pairings ever created in comic book history.
not so much.
Cyclops had a long simp phase.
Manmademan
Member
Odds are wolverine and Jean wouldn't have been much better:
I think Jean just turns whoever she's with into bland, terrible people
Lokimaru
Member
Hank's been taken to that point partly by the Avengers line, though. Of course he was a last-minute replacement for Xavier in New Avengers after Bendis killed Xavier off.
Xavier, okay, I'll give you that one. But then he's always had a creepy side from the beginning that some writers couldn't help adding to, like Hank Pym's tendency to screw up or Reed Richards' douchiness. The amazing thing is that the X-Men writers kept him so usable for so long.
You think Xavier ever Piggy backed while Jean and Scott were having Sex?
Odds are wolverine and Jean wouldn't have been much better:
I think Jean just turns whoever she's with into bland, terrible people
Napoleonthechimp
Member
So how are they going to eventually bring Xavier back? I was imagining they'd retrieve his mental... essence *shrugs* and then put it into the body of Xavier's offspring. Y'know the evil one from the future that suspiciously looks exactly like Xavier and nothing like his mother.
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