SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
The supreme court ruling on gay marriage can't come soon enough.
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Bakery under fire for refusing to make anti-gay cake.
- Thread starter Camwi
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hawkshockey11
Banned
How likely would you think I were to get into the news if I were to ask a bakery to make a cake with jesus christ having sex with a man on top.
One is a cake that supports people, the other is a cake that attacks people.
Having a gay-themed cake made doesn't attack people who hate gays. It may go against their beliefs, but it doesn't say "People who hate gays are evil" or some other nonsense like that.
Having a cake made that directly depicts either hate speech or imagery directly attacks a group of people.
It's the difference between saying "I'm doing my own thing for myself" and "I hate you for doing your thing for yourself." For them to be equivalent the former would have to turn into "I hate you for hating me for doing my own thing for myself." Refusing to bake cakes that attack people seems like a sound business plan to me. Now if the bakery said no to straight-themed marriage cakes but yes to gay-themed cakes, we'd have something to talk about.
Having a gay-themed cake made doesn't attack people who hate gays. It may go against their beliefs, but it doesn't say "People who hate gays are evil" or some other nonsense like that.
Having a cake made that directly depicts either hate speech or imagery directly attacks a group of people.
It's the difference between saying "I'm doing my own thing for myself" and "I hate you for doing your thing for yourself." For them to be equivalent the former would have to turn into "I hate you for hating me for doing my own thing for myself." Refusing to bake cakes that attack people seems like a sound business plan to me. Now if the bakery said no to straight-themed marriage cakes but yes to gay-themed cakes, we'd have something to talk about.
imagine how the prudes would react to the symbolism of filling a cream donut.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
I didn't know my marriage was tied to politics
MY BAD Y'ALL!
I think it is tied when people go to Christian bakeries for that purpose, not that it shouldn't happen, but at the same time it isn't like you're not researching where to get a cake for your wedding either.
Fucking stupid. A bakery (or any commissioned artist) should not be forced to make anything for anybody.
Pro/anti whatever, if I don't like you there is no way you can force me to make you anything.
I would of told this guy to go fuck himself, and get the fuck out of my store before you get shot for trespassing.
Pro/anti whatever, if I don't like you there is no way you can force me to make you anything.
I would of told this guy to go fuck himself, and get the fuck out of my store before you get shot for trespassing.
No, I really can't. "Gay Hatred" isn't an organized religion.
The bakery isn't refusing to bake the cake on the basis that it will be used for any recognized religious practice or event. An anti-gay rally or similar event cannot be deemed a religious observance of any kind. It's a political event, and NOT a religious event.
This claim is patently absurd. As a general principle, anti discrimination laws do not protect people who would use religion as a justification to do whatever they want.
For example, Title VII would not protect me if I told my boss that I couldn't work because I need to participate in anti-gay rallies on Saturdays per my religious beliefs. However, in contrast, Title VII would offer some protection me if I told my boss that I need to attend the Sabbath on Saturdays per my Jewish faith which also prevents me from coming into the office on those days.
That is a very big distinction. A religious observer isn't given an infinite latitude to interpret his religion in whatever way he deems proper when suing on the basis of religious discrimination.
In general businesses can do this, but there are exceptions. You can't choose not to do business with someone because of their race, color, religion, or national origin (there are more exceptions when it comes to hiring). Some states have added other classifications that apply to businesses in those states.
So the guy here is wanting to say that the bakery is discriminating against him because of his religious beliefs. It's a hard case to make, though, because presumably they wouldn't make the "God hates gays" cake for anyone.
This is probably not a serious legal challenge, though, and is instead an attempt to demonstrate the hypocrisy of the law or liberals or something. There was a case in I think Oregon (which adds sexual orientation to the list of things you can't discriminate on the basis of) where a bakery got in trouble for refusing to provide a cake for a gay wedding. For people who are convinced that a "gay wedding cake" is a very different thing from a "straight wedding cake", the cases are going to look somewhat similar, proving that Christians are persecuted, etc.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Eh, I disagree. Businesses shouldn't be allowed to discriminate based on race or sexual orientation.
My guess is that this was a setup based on the Bakery that got sued for refusing to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple.
edit: Gotchaye provides a great summary two posts above.
Winterfang
Banned
Pretty much LOL. How about just make a simple delicious cake without charge it with social issues.
Plus, they didn't deny him a cake, they just wouldn't write his stupid shit on it.
This too.
Zoe
Member
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
The irony of this guy feeling victimised. What an absolute dickhead.
Should that extend to a cake like this?
I suspect that US courts would allow a bakery to refuse to bake that cake, but IANAL. Businesses have free exercise rights, and I think we already allow businesses to refuse to help people make speech the businesses disagree with (like, I think a cable network can refuse to air an ad they don't like the message of). The cake you posted was from a case in Ireland.
My husbands best friend got our cake for us. I didn't do any researching. Actually, going and tasting all of them? That'd be kind of fun.
But regardless, there's a huge difference between gay couple trying to get cake for their wedding vs someone going to "make a point". You're basically saying some couple getting married is going through all the shit you have to go through to get married just to make a political statement. Come on now.
I might be wrong but I don't think they refused to make them a cake as much as they refused to write their shitty message on it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Wouldn't this only work if homophobia is legally recognized as part of that foolish customer's religion
Such a hateful thing and waste of resources
Such a hateful thing and waste of resources
There's not much question of this, though. Clearly hating gay people is part of the guy's religion, and the courts show a lot of deference to how people represent their own religious beliefs - they don't want to be in the business of deciding what people's religious beliefs really are. Unless you're obviously just trying to claim that a preference is a religious belief (like "my religion says I need a standing desk so my boss should be forced to accommodate me") the courts are going to allow that whatever-it-is is actually your religion.
block tower
Member
a grown man fucking around with cakes for what? it amazes me what type of stupid shit people have time to waste on.
yep
Aeriscloud
Banned
Absolutely.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
sure, maybe, but making a political statement shouldn't somehow be devalued either. its how you make progress on pertinent issues.
there's always a first person to do something, and not only that but there are a lot of people who would consider doing something like that as something worth their time over their wedding for whatever reason. not everyone holds the same values or prioritizes things the same as everyone else.
since i guess we're talking about you specifically now, did your friend research bakeries? did they take into consideration whether or not the bakery may or may not make a big deal out of whether or not it is for a same sex couple, or did he just choose the closest one to your venue or even the venue itself to make the cake?
not really a point i'm trying to make, but its not exactly easy to gloss over whether or not a bakery is full of religious cakes or something like that.
The people from the last 2 bakery cases even said they weren't done with the issue and that we could expect something like this. Just throwing rocks at the gate.
looooooooool
They should have said they'd make the cake, then written something completely different on it to fuck with Jack.
GameGuru59
Banned
While the point was made stupidly (he could have just asked the bakery to make a cake that said "Gay marriage is a sin"... or something), this is an inconsistency. Which is why I'm against class protections in theory. In practice is a different question.
Cue moral outrage in 3... 2... 1...
Cue moral outrage in 3... 2... 1...
Cameron122
Member
When will cake with the neutral feelings towards gay people crisis begin?
no but really what was this cake for
I'll make you a cake that says "Yo man, this is just a delicious cake with no agenda!"
You don't know what a class is. This is perfectly consistent as countless people itt already pointed out.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Probably for a high school reunion followed by a hate crime.
Cameron122
Member
BrightEyedPanic
Member
lttp?
Ninja Scooter
Member
Jesus Hates Cake would have been acceptable because Jesus probably really would have hated cake. Except for ice cream cake everyone loves that shit.
Cameron122
Member
he hates fig cake
A car dealer can't choose to not sell a car to a non-white person.
A movie theater can't choose to not sell a ticket to a gay couple.
A store can't choose to not sell a kid's bicycle to an 80 year old woman.
A car dealer can choose to not to paint a car with 'fuck the jews' on it's hood before selling it to their customer
A movie theater can choose to not let a church group talk over a movie they are trying to show in the theater room, or carry a certain movie at all.
A store can choose to not gift wrap a videogame in wrapping depicting gore the customer brought themselves
Just some lame fucking troll going for a false equivalence.
A movie theater can't choose to not sell a ticket to a gay couple.
A store can't choose to not sell a kid's bicycle to an 80 year old woman.
A car dealer can choose to not to paint a car with 'fuck the jews' on it's hood before selling it to their customer
A movie theater can choose to not let a church group talk over a movie they are trying to show in the theater room, or carry a certain movie at all.
A store can choose to not gift wrap a videogame in wrapping depicting gore the customer brought themselves
Just some lame fucking troll going for a false equivalence.
GameGuru59
Banned
Well I said the point wasn't made well. If the baker refused to bake the cake with a big ass cross on it, it would be similar.
No it wouldn't.
GameGuru59
Banned
They would be refusing service because they are christian. Unless they just had something against crosses.
lol was going to say. What's it with bakeries and controversies. I swear I've heard so many stories about bakeries having these issues.
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