Launch didn't exactly dig deep for that theory. It's pretty much exactly the SK that he put into his danganronpa game
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Batman [Mafia] |OT| The mafia game Gafia deserves , but not the one it needs
- Thread starter roytheone
- Start date
Launch didn't exactly dig deep for that theory. It's pretty much exactly the SK that he put into his danganronpa game
I have been AFK for most of todays phasee, but have been keeping up with the thread on mobile. I wasn't able to post last night due to it being date night with my GF.
That all being said, I do trust El Topo's claim, it seems to check out. We've talked plenty about Camjo's claim, and I think we will be okay for at least a little while. His supposed Red Hood turn has me concerned. Additionally, I'm advising the cop to NOT check him, because he might actually be a false flag if he is actually a villain. So as far as I'm concerned, we need to be very careful with Camjo, because he feels like a time bomb at best, and a trap at worst.
I intended to vote for Flux before going to bed, but was too tired to give a good explanation for it. With him leaving the game, I'm going to hold off and allow his replacement to have a chance to play for a bit.
Will be back with more on the recent events soon.
This is such bullshit and if you would've actually looked at our respective post history, you would know it. I already didn't agree with your assessment of mine that I was overly rustled by wee's remarks, quite the opposite, but be my guest and point me to specific statements than "subtly" pushing in my direction. Same goes for Xam, which post is even more egrgious and probably will still account as "At least he pushed"someone".
Mazre... claims.
First comments are just proclamations what will happen later, nonsense. He thought Flame (and TL) were scummy. Flame flipped Town.
Comments on how people reacted to his claim.
No comment on why he claimed apart from reaction gathering.
FluxWaveZ-vote without explanation.
Flips to Karkador because... 15 minutes left!
Votes Flux, whateverwhy
He loves mafia. Potentially his team, not the game.
Day Two? Yep, that's it.
What do you mean exactly? He voted for Topo, flux got all the Votes --> Override?
Exactly. It's weird he didn't override El Topo whom he voted for.
Well... he probably didn't want to use his power necessarily and thus was voting on one of the two who were up, Topo being - in Camjo's eyes - more suspicious or whatever. When he saw that flux, who he didn't want to get killed, he used the power and took someone else entirely. Seems reasonable to me.
Specifically this chain of posts:
This was a fairly soft ball question that I didn't expect her to get much from, town or scum should be able to bat this away easily.
But I wasn't expecting just a random claim. It does read like you were expecting two kills from what weemad originally quotes even if you didn't intend it that way. She responds:
And this was during Launch's theory crafting hour so her point here isn't the best but then you say:
Which seems odd in my eyes when this started from your joking or pulling a random number out of two night kills which you must have thought was at least semi-plausible if you posted it. I'm kind of in the same boat with you as I am in Camjo, you aren't a good lynch today but this whole chain is interesting if we have 2 kills going forward. You read like someone who expected two night kills, which might be an honest mistake, but there has only been one night and it's possible a killed missed somehow.
Basically what I'm saying is that you almost sound like you had some privileged information and you back tracked a bit on it because it didn't come to pass anyway.
I'm waiting for him to answer your question from last night (this morning? I forget) but I'm confused where you are going on this. I can be on board with Launch's SK theory, maybe, but Camjo isn't scum. A scum aligned mayor is ridiculous. So sure, Camjo should answer for himself but who cares at the end of the day? I see no scenario where he has a team to defend so town or future SK, he would still be in the dark about all the other players in the game.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Launch didn't exactly dig deep for that theory. It's pretty much exactly the SK that he put into his danganronpa game
Exactly lol
And he was one of the least wanted of the vote switchers.
Kark, Mazre and Xam had all switched votes and had people wanting their flip. A couple of people didn't like Flame, but he was not on people's radar like those three.
As in, I don't think I would have still been able to use the override after getting NK'd once. I mean, if your theory of me becoming a killing neutral or mafia is correct, I would literally be able to become judge, jury, and executioner.
I already explained this in my first post today.
Weemad was active and Karu was not, so I tossed them out as choices. Didn't want to kill Topo because while I didn't believe him, I didn't want to be solely responsible for killing a PR claim if he was telling the truth and was useful. Xam was a potential choice, but as I said, Flame suddenly getting super into things right near the end made me more suspcious of him.
Now that that's cleared up, here's a question for you: what was with all the Batman fakeclaiming? Because last I checked you had SkyOdin on your "Batcomputer scum list" and he's a townie, yet you insisted it was not a simple read list. So basically, you've been feeding town blatantly false information and claiming a power that you don't actually have. Is there a reason you shouldn't be lynched today?
If I was so suspicious D1, why not override me instead?
SkyOdin wasn't dead to confirm your list was fake on D1, was he?
I already said yesterday that the vote on you was intended as a gag because you were acting too cool for school. See, I actually explain my thinking when people ask instead of being coy and guarded. You on the other hand still haven't answered my question. What's with the fakeclaiming?
Speaking of the batcomputer... how do you feel about Topo's inclusion as a neutral?
Let me see if I follow what you're saying here. Because I'm scum, I put SkyOdin on a fake Batcomputer scumlist - then, at night, I willfully decided with my scumfriends to kill SkyOdin, so that my Batcomputer scumlist looks false.
Is that the thought you're trying to get across?
So were all your votes gags? You don't actually explain your thinking, you're just making excuses. You're saying you wanted to be careful and not lynch people involved in the lynch, but you used the override on someone who didn't even have a case against them. You sat on the override ability for the entirety of D1, but you want to make it seem as if you just suddenly thought of using it at the very end. I don't buy it.
A more prudent Town player would at least use their normal votes to test other players to use the nuclear option on. This I would have been more sold on your story if you had claimed you were voting on us as a pressure test. At least have the decency to try to make your lie interesting.
As it stands, what I see is a player who either A) Used their override to protect either Topo or Flux, or B) doesn't really care who dies either way.
Ok, but that wasn't my question. Bad play in general is anti-town. If Mazre actually claimed his real role on day 1, that is anti-town. If the batcomputer is bullshit and you've been selling it as not bullshit then that is anti-town. The way that Camjo overrode Flame is anti-town, yes, but the fact that he even had an override far outweighs that. It's unlikely that he is scum and I'm doing this because it's bothering me that you are hanging up on this instead hunting more likely scum. Your stalling here and distracting just like you were yesterday.
Lol, Sorian, please. You're free to call "anti-town" on whatever you want, but this insistence that it MUST be a mayor and an override MUST be Town is just trying to hold down the conversation. GAFIA has had a scum override before. Do try to keep up.
Can you please detail that scum override for me and tell me how it was balanced? I'll sit here and wait.
You're free to go find that thread and post your musings on that game's balance there. The point is that you're jumping to rule out a possibility that is perfectly reasonable and with plenty of precedent. More concerning is that you seem to be doing it to protect another player.
I'm doing it because you are derailing to chase bullshit. Since you don't want to bring it up, I can. Why was a scum override ok to put into a game? That's odd, just allowing scum one free guaranteed mislynch that town can do nothing about? That's pretty overpowered, to say the least. The balance on that must have been something amazing. Oh right, THE MODERATER WROTE IN BIG READ LETTERS THAT THE PERSON USING IT WAS SCUM ALIGNED.
Like I said earlier in the day, that wasn't the case here, obviously. That's not the only way to balance the role though. We could also have a town-aligned ability that can hit scum with 100% accuracy and with no chance of failure, that would be a pretty good balance too. I'm going to guess that wasn't the case though because there would be no reason not to have used that ability already.
So no, what you are bringing up is not perfectly reasonable, as a matter of fact, in a game this small, that would be downright broken.
weemadarthur
Member
I kept up reading all the games while playing Princess, and joined the spec when we ended.
Dying in mafia is not necessarily bad, yes. Getting yourself killed day one when you're the cop due to a bad gambit, and ultimately losing the game, is bad.
Unvote
Will question a replacement when appointed.
I honestly don't think anybody is interested in your metagame garbage. What we have is right in front of us. Frankly, it's almost all we have in front of us. If you're not even allowing players to question why it happened, you're fucking up and you're acting suspicious. Back off. I'm sure Camjo can answer his own questions.
Now, if you're locked out of your normal mode of communication with Camjo, I can understand why you're doing this.
Mafia is a team game after all. I'll tell you (in fewer words) what I just told Sorian; what I did in the past is really neither here nor there for the discussion, but I do learn from past mistakes.
Yes, what we have is right in front of us. Someone who made a terrible play as a 100% verifiable role that is town aligned 99.9% of the time and we have a smiling cat who has been holding discussion hostage on a bullshit RNG list from day 1 and now wants to do the same with a dead lead on day 2. I don't really care what you think of me stepping in for another player, as far as I'm concerned, Camjo might as well be confirmed for right now and that seems to be all you want to chase today.
VOTE: Karkador
You must have been jumping for joy when you realized that the override was so bad that you might actually be able to spin suspicion on the mayor.
Right, I held discussion hostage with the Batcomputer list. That's the hill you want to die on? Should I take the trouble to prove you wrong, or is this the gameplan you're sticking to, no matter what?
We can talk about how your actions at the end of the day were indicative of someone trying to cause a tie and when questioned on it, you didn't even pretend to go through the motions, instead opting to go with the "batman doesn't kill non-sense" if you'd like. We could also talk about how you've soft claimed Batman so many times at this point that anyone who hasn't noticed may need to get their eyes checked so these aren't really the realm of breadcrumbs anymore. You haven't actually claimed in any manner though which effectively puts you in a weird limbo where you might be getting the good will from that claim but if/when someone eventually counterclaims or the real batman flips then you can just say "oh well, I never actually said I was batman, I was just role playing." That's a great place for scum to sit hoping to bait out a counterclaim from a role that is probably one of town's best.
So yeah, you can only skate for so long on "haha, Kark's gambits are so funny, he is doing silly things so he must be town" This is too much to be considered silly any more, this is destructive.
weemadarthur
Member
.
I am going to pretend you missed my post in the noise and just repeat it.
Really?
You're trying to skate by on a suggestion and then disappear while others do the work for you?
One decent suggestion does not wipe away your scummy play so far.
And do what with Camjo? Hmm? Lynch him? The odds of him being scum are so ridiculously low and the odds of him being neutral, while a little higher, aren't really worth the effort today since evidence (like a missed kill for example) would make lynching him as a potential mayor turned SK neutral at least make some sense. Right now, anyone trying to lynch Camjo looks to me like disgruntled town trying to bite their nose to spite their face or scum trying to the mob into another mislynch.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Sorian, you're jumping the gun big time here. That 99.9% of the time is unrealistic, and even if you're just saying it to prove a point, you're neglecting the .1% where there was a scum override. Especially since Camjo himself has admitted that there is more to his role than just having an override, I'd question whether you're looking at this with a level head or if you have something invested in Camjo. You're believing that a player is above scrutiny, and that's something a real town player would never do.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
This whole situation would smell of two towns fighting, but I don't think I've ever seen Sorian just lunge at someone or adamantly try to refute a stance. It's rather strange behavior.
The .1% is for if he is a neutral instead of town. I'm giving it a whole 0% chance of him being scum. Also, yes, he says there is more in his role and then tells us flavor that may make him bulletproof or convertible or something. It's something to look at but it's just as likely that he is reading more from his flavor than he actually is (reminds me of the inverse case where Blarg's flavor in Cthulhu told him he was bulletproof but he thought that was just flavor and not an actual thing, people don't clarify their roles when they are confused sometimes, it happens). That's neither here nor there though, this is the type of weird thing that you scrutinize later in the game when better leads are exhausted, not day 2. Being above scrutiny now does not equal being unlynchable for the rest of the game.
I'd also call someone out for trying to lynch a green check from a cop read on day 2 because the person might be a godfather. Sure, they might be but why would you be talking about that now when you have other things to do?
Continue to make excuses for a role you (supposedly) have no idea about. You are not the moderator.
Why even bring this up at all? Are you a cop? Did someone claim cop? Was someone in this game cleared?
weemadarthur
Member
So, between day one and two, you've started to think the batcomputer is a scumtell?
So? I'm not allowed to say something about a role because I'm not the moderator? You're the one banging at a drum that makes no sense and I'm telling you exactly why it doesn't. I see no possibility of a scum aligned mayor, simple as that.
And I brought the second part up as an example that more people would probably understand since this community is more used to seeing that. You're daft though so I know that these hypotheticals are rough on your literal sensibilities.
You're dismissing a very questionable event from D1, with a bunch of other things to it - you want to dismiss that entire line of questioning, because of "the odds".
Sorry; whatever Camjo is, you're not convincing me that you're on Town's side.
VOTE: Sorian
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
All this is amounting to is that you're being increasingly ignorant and thickheaded. Whether that's on purpose or unintentional, I think we better find out.
VOTE: Sorian
There are a bunch of other things to it? Like what? Either Camjo is scum and he overrode to protect teammates or he is town/neutral and he overrode because of bad reasoning/for the lolz. There is literally nothing else here, no one else was interested enough in Flame to be voting for him in the last hour, the vote was thrown out completely in regards to Topo/Flux. Very rarely can you say that a lynch decision falls squarely on one person because usually a mayor at least goes for someone that was up for discussion but here we are, we can say yesterday's lynch was all 100% Camjo.
So that leaves us with a binary, Camjo is scum or he is not scum (lumping neutral in with not scum because the point here is that the override wouldn't be protecting a known teammate), a scum mayor is dumb so yeah "the odds" also known as "good game design" are pretty apparent here.
I'll concede one thing though because writing this made me realize a single blind spot. He could still be town while overriding to protect a teammate if Flux was in a mason or lover's relationship with him. That's at least a believable role but that should have been brought up yesterday when Flux was about to get chopped in half imo or would have been brought up today when Camjo explained his actions for yesterday.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Because for all we know, yes, Camjo probably still is town right now like he says. I believe that it was a townie mistake. But, Sorian adamantly standing against any other possibilities is worrisome. If Camjo is a neutral who needs to be flipped, it benefits mafia to leave him alive because once he starts killing (if that prediction of mine is true), there are more town targets than there are mafia targets. He'll be helping mafia dwindle down town numbers and make their win easier.