Dreams-Visions
Member
agreed on all counts.
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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
agreed on all counts.
keltickennedy
Member
Oh, also the added scene with the cops watching the Metropolis Vs Gotham football game....was the metropolis quarterback Cyborg?
TheFuzz
Member
Let me cut 1/6 those other movies out and release a hackjob and lets see if they're still good.
Yes
It's good though.
Doubtful, because we already saw the deformed Cyborg and the timeframe doesn't fit.
It's really just that.
"How can we cut 5 to 10 seconds out of this scene".
They were just slicing off parts of the movie to get it as slim as possible. Even after removing an entire subplot, they cut a lot of stuff from scenes. Things that bring you into a scene comfortably, a lot of the Dark Knight Returns -like media coverage that runs throughout the Ultimate Edition, gone.
The editor(s) really had to hack chunks of it off to get the 2.5 hour run time. The theatrical cut is a version of the movie chopped up and stuck back together with tape.
BulletBees
Member
Watched the UE last night with my GF. We both liked the TC, but UE solved a lot of our issues with the movie. I feel the same way about Watchmen. TC was fine, but the directors cut made that movie really shine.
Made better in the UC with Bruce saying 'I don't deserve you Alfred'. Alfred: 'No sir, you don't'. When he lifts off in the Batwing.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
He blew up the bridge to prevent Ra's from driving the train in Wayne Tower and causing a chain reaction that would have ended up vaporizing the entire city's water supply. He didn't do it to flatout murder Ra's. Also justifying Snyder's Batman being so violent as being a reason for Superman to dislike him is asinine. There are many other aspects that would create an interesting conflict, such as Superman disliking the fact that a human is taking the law into his own hands and doing whatever to these criminals (vs. Superman apprehending criminals and sending their ass to jail). These characters will always diametrically oppose one another, so it doesn't need to be so complex to think about reasons why Batman/Superman dislike each other.
That seems to be a Zack Snyder problem. All of the director's cut versions of his films have been better to me. Dawn of the Dead, Sucker Punch, Watchmen, and now Batman v Superman. Makes me wonder what a Man of Steel director's cut would've been like.
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
Watched about an hour last night and it's already so much better. They really should have just put this out in theaters. Morons.
broncobuster
Banned
There is a detail I like from prerelease world building that's sadly missing in the film and ultimately puts into question the valued importance of it. Why Alfred is younger and feels indebted to Bruce is in part from his role as the Wayne bodyguard and failure to protect them.
Another aspect marginalized in the film are Lex's contributions to rebuilding Metropolis. Get more of that from the Turkish Airlines ad than the actual film.
More like WB's problem with Zack Snyder. He always impresses them with his DC, and then they butcher their movies at the eleventh hour with the promise of releasing the true cut on home video. The cycle repeats over and over again.
I'm intrigued enough to actively want to see this, but also pretty hesitant. I felt like the fact that it was quite a bit too long was one of the original cut's major issues, and it's tough to imagine how more runtime can help all that much.
I need to add based on recent discussion that I have no problem at all with long movies and find the notion that the length of BvS was cut down merely to arrange more screenings or to cater to attention deficit-riddled audiences perplexing. The movie that was intended to be made was too long by conception, and the too-long movie that we got would have been better if it were shorter.
Even without the false starts and time spent on the dreams/visions, there are entire sequences that don't do much to further the plot or justify their existence, and scenes that do need to be there are often ponderously paced. It's like the thing is setting itself up to be a thriller, when it has no desire at all to follow through on those aspirations. More broadly at a script level, there's just no reason why the Batman vs. Superman movie had to also be the Doomsday/Death of Superman movie and the Lex Luthor goes crazy movie and the Wonder Woman/Justice League origins movie.
The common counterpoint to this is that since the movie we got was all these things, its shorter length hurt it and more time spent on individual motivations can improve the whole, especially with regard to the pacing. I'm willing to buy this and give it a fair chance. But I'd be stunned if I don't come away still just feeling like it should have been shorter.
I need to add based on recent discussion that I have no problem at all with long movies and find the notion that the length of BvS was cut down merely to arrange more screenings or to cater to attention deficit-riddled audiences perplexing. The movie that was intended to be made was too long by conception, and the too-long movie that we got would have been better if it were shorter.
Even without the false starts and time spent on the dreams/visions, there are entire sequences that don't do much to further the plot or justify their existence, and scenes that do need to be there are often ponderously paced. It's like the thing is setting itself up to be a thriller, when it has no desire at all to follow through on those aspirations. More broadly at a script level, there's just no reason why the Batman vs. Superman movie had to also be the Doomsday/Death of Superman movie and the Lex Luthor goes crazy movie and the Wonder Woman/Justice League origins movie.
The common counterpoint to this is that since the movie we got was all these things, its shorter length hurt it and more time spent on individual motivations can improve the whole, especially with regard to the pacing. I'm willing to buy this and give it a fair chance. But I'd be stunned if I don't come away still just feeling like it should have been shorter.
I went in thinking that i will actually hate it but I liked it a lot. I think its really a good movie.
The only thing i disliked was the protryal of Lex Luthor. I think he was miscast. They should have chosen some one who had presence on the screen
2nd thing i didn't like was the end fight. It wasn't that bad it was just OK.
Overall a really good movie Specially first two hours . They didn't even felt like a CBM. It felt like crime thriller movie.
+ Beautiful looking film. I don't know why its not mentioned more but the film looked absolutely gorgeous.
+ Music was superb. Didn't liked the music in last fight tough
+ Acting was also good especially Ben Affleck .
+ Didn't had any issues with Batman killing. His first appearance was so good. It felt like a monster from Jeepers Kreeprs. Overall My favorite Batman.
+ Very different feeling from other CBM movies.
- Lex luthor was miscast or misdirected.
- Last fight wasn't that interesting
Flash Cameo was good. Aquaman was bad. Also the movie didn't needed Wonder woman. Also didn't had any issues with Knight Mare sequence but fight Coregraphy during that was bad .
Also don't know what are the complain about Martha scene. It was executed fine although Superman could have told him many time during the fight but he didnt so that another negative
Overall 8/10
Other recent CBM rating,
MOS 7/10
Dead Pool 7/10
Civil War 8/10
Apocalypse 6/10
AntMan 7/10
Age of ultron 6/10
The only thing i disliked was the protryal of Lex Luthor. I think he was miscast. They should have chosen some one who had presence on the screen
2nd thing i didn't like was the end fight. It wasn't that bad it was just OK.
Overall a really good movie Specially first two hours . They didn't even felt like a CBM. It felt like crime thriller movie.
+ Beautiful looking film. I don't know why its not mentioned more but the film looked absolutely gorgeous.
+ Music was superb. Didn't liked the music in last fight tough
+ Acting was also good especially Ben Affleck .
+ Didn't had any issues with Batman killing. His first appearance was so good. It felt like a monster from Jeepers Kreeprs. Overall My favorite Batman.
+ Very different feeling from other CBM movies.
- Lex luthor was miscast or misdirected.
- Last fight wasn't that interesting
Flash Cameo was good. Aquaman was bad. Also the movie didn't needed Wonder woman. Also didn't had any issues with Knight Mare sequence but fight Coregraphy during that was bad .
Also don't know what are the complain about Martha scene. It was executed fine although Superman could have told him many time during the fight but he didnt so that another negative
Overall 8/10
Other recent CBM rating,
MOS 7/10
Dead Pool 7/10
Civil War 8/10
Apocalypse 6/10
AntMan 7/10
Age of ultron 6/10
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Can't see how that's WB's problem when many directors have been able to cut into a 2/2.5hr hour movie without disrupting the flow or story of their films. If Snyder needs more than 2.5hrs to tell a coherent story, then it signals a fundamental directing/editing flaw.
esmith08734
Member
Sorry, but how can I watch this on my TV? I don't have an Apple TV or Google Chromecast. I have a MacBook Air. I can blow up the resolution on a monitor but it doesn't scale well.
Edit, can I watch this on my Xbox One somehow?
Edit, can I watch this on my Xbox One somehow?
.
Biting off more than he can chew in 2.5 hours seems like a fault of Snyder's. There were times during the Ultimate Edition that I wondered if he was better suited to the episodic television formation.
2.5 hours should be seen as the ceiling. WB probably need to ask him to make a 2 hour film, in the hopes that they only get a 2.5 hour one.
Scorpion Soldier
Member
Nope. They went for a 2.40:1 presentation throughout for the Blu-ray unfortunately. Having seen the IMAX version I found the cropping to be very apparent, unfortunately, which is a shame because for as much as I hated the film I found the IMAX footage to be quite well done.
That being said, I did enjoy the Ultimate Cut a little bit better. I'd say it went on from being a 5 to a 6 I guess. I really think the 'if you hate it you'll still hate it' thing applies, but I did find the editing and certain sequences to work out a lot better in the Ultimate Cut, though there were still so many problems that carried over for me that can't exactly be fixed IMO.
If you have seen neither cuts though, you'll probably have a better experience if you skip the theatrical cut and see this first.
You could watch it on your Xbox through the Amazon Instant Video app, if you use that of course.
Why was Aquaman bad? What about Cyborg?
I've yet to stop thinking that we'd be much better off with a direct adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns. Snyder's best work remains that for which he was just taking stylized source material and converting it to movie form, with some alterations here and there but preserving the main conflicts.
The reasoning behind why they're fighting, and the resolution of the fight itself, are just both so, so much better in TDKR.
My problem is why would Supes say "Martha"? If I was seconds from death having failed to rescue my mom and trying to convey that to Bats I wouldn't go "You're letting him kill Margaret", I'd be crying out "please listen, he's gonna kill my Mom". It just feels forced.
Flash had two cameos first is Flashpoint Camaeo where he comes from future to warn bruce this one is mostly for comic book fans. Other is a video which wonder woman is watching. CCTV footage where he saves a shopkeeper from a mugger and it felt natural. Aquman on the other hand had a cameo where Lex has sent some droone submarines underwater and they found a ship. Aquaman is there just staring at a camera for a min then attacks the drones and swims away. It felt forced. Cyborg Was also bad. It was just an information dump on the video where a mother box attaches to cyborg and also felt forced
Doesn't matter. Snyder is Snyder. As I said, they keep editing down his movies, they know he makes 3 hour long movies, that's his style, and they still haven't let him release his goddamned movie besides Man of Steel. Even Guardians of Ga'hoole has a Director's Cut kept around that is supposedly a much better movie, same for Sucker Punch which has a DC that is not even final. Most Zack Snyder movies have been butchered in post production because of audience fear, most are rightfully unliked, and most have good, superior versions lying around. That's a pattern WB should have seen by now. In fact, the reason they keep giving him gigs is because hey know he's not bad (They've seen his finished cuts) but they STILL don't let him do his thing. And it keeps backfiring as seen here.
It's super baffling.
I thought the Cyborg one made sense, in Iron Man Tony has video recording when he's building the Mk2 suit. This reminded me of that with a weird sci Fi horror bent.
Something that gets me is Lex is arrested due to the bombings and not for making a Monster.
TheFuzz
Member
It's literally the only Mother he knows. When he calls her in the movie he doesn't go "hello Martha", he says "hi, Ma....why did Pa never leave Kansas?".
Scorpion Soldier
Member
Adopted children call their adoptive parents mom and dad as well, so yeah, that's a huge nitpick.
I mean, for all intended purposes him saying 'Martha' is only a not-so-well thought out plot device to get Lois into the scene.
I even forgot that there was a Cyborg Cameo. But it felt forced to me .
Lex was arrested for bombings(was it explicitly said ?) because they had proof that metal used in Chair and bullet at start was provided by Lex. On the other hand they didn't had much proof or any proof that doomsday was created by lex
I stand for that he tried to make the "k" sound but Batman's metal boot doesn't let him.
He never calls his parents by their names before that though. Not even when he says "You're not my parents" in Man of Steel does he ever stop calling them Dad and Mom.
Nah.
"YOU'RE LETTING HIM KILL MUURRTHHA"
"What ... what does that mean?"
"FIND HIM. SAAVE MUUURTHHHAA"
"What ... what does that mean?"
"FIND HIM. SAAVE MUUURTHHHAA"
Its a small nitpick but at that time Bruce didn't knew that clark was superman.
Also Clark was very weak and was about to die so he gave information which he tought was most necessary to save his mom
"Muuurtha Kkkk...". Batman said that but he didn't let him say a thing! He was screaming like a lunatic.
Clark was trained his entire life to protect himself from others by his dad, and Bruce is literally trying to kill him. That's all the justification needed really. He's pretty much resigned to the fact at that point that it seems that he is about to die and needs Batman to save this person regardless, it makes more sense for him to say the name of who he wants him to save honestly.
He gets two opportunities, and he doesn't attempt Kent.
The information he gives Batman is useless.
Inferno313
Banned
I think, in theory it's great. In execution, is where it faltered. I'm a bit of a spoiler-addict. So when I had read that was the resolution, before seeing the film. I had never made the connection that their mother's shared the same name, and thought it was brilliant.
However, actually seeing it was kind of disappointing. For such a key, KEY, scene I'm shocked that Snyder thought the takes used of Cavil and Affleck's performances were acceptable. I like those guys too, they're mostly both excellent in the film, but both of them really are struggling to sell that moment. I guess it's hard to act or speak with a foot on your neck, but Cavil's delivery of "They're going to kill Martha!", or whatever his first line is, is dreadful. Affleck's reaction isn't sold any better.
If that was the case he would've said her entire name. "You're letting him kill my mom, save Martha Kent". I don't think it's a small nitpick at all, it feels very weird having a man about to be kill say his mom's first name instead of just "my mom".
Boombloxer
Member
Will watch this afternoon.
It's a fair criticism. Who knows, maybe it was his last ditch effort to manipulate Bats? Clark knows he's Bruce Wayne and the history of his parents is no secret. *shrug*
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Doing a direct adaptation of TDKR doesn't quite work IMO. TDKR also has problems with its conflict set-up, where they effectively neutered Superman's character into a government lackey with no ability to think for himself (especially when said government is morally corrupt in TDKR). It doesn't help Batman either, who is pretty much reduced into a testosterone-fuelled rage machine.
It absolutely matters, "Snyder is Snyder" isn't good enough, especially when there are many other directors who have no problem cutting even if it hurts their vision (but nonetheless still tells a consistent and coherent story). There are many things Snyder could have cut that didn't contribute to the larger narrative. Furthermore, there's a reason why they edit down. The movie is unlikely to have a thriving repeat audience if your film is 3 hours. Especially when people complain about films being bloated and too long. That's why the industry has a sweet spot that's generally around 2-2.5 hours. They do this to maximize on profits and repeat audiences.
He tries to say "Martha kent"! Really! Watch again.
Inferno313
Banned
Unfortunately, I don't think Snyder's take on Superman has the mental capacity to make that connection on his own.
He didn't even know who Bruce Wayne was in the beginning of the film. I dunno if he would know his parents name.
Like I said What would u think would be more useful for Batman. Saying save my Mom ? or save martha from him ? One is some what useful information other is not. Also at the start of the fight he did say that Lex luthor had his mom . When Batman starts fighting
He doesn't attempt 'Kent' in this clip.
Batman doesn't interrupt the first attempt. Superman says what he wants to, stops, then starts choking. Then Batman gives him another opportunity to talk, and he again doesn't attempt 'Kent', however the second time you can argue Batman just zones out after 'Martha'.
But we don't hear Superman attempt to say 'Martha Kent'.
TheFuzz
Member
Forgot about that, thanks for clarifying.