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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)

P

PackAPunchedMick

Member
Watched it last night (didn't see the original cut)

Loved it. The improved batsuit came out of nowhere which was strange unless I missed something? but I loved the batshit insane
doomsday
fights.

8/10.

Bring on the justice league.
 
F

Foggy

Member
Ahasverus said:
"WHY DOESN'T HE SMILE, SMILE GODDAMN IT! JUST LIKE REEVES SUPERMAN WHEN HE KILLED ZOD TOO."

Same song and dance.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'll take the Cavill approach to the character than the pandering cornball of Reeves. I respect people who feel differently, but I think those Superman movies(including 1 and 2) have aged very poorly. It's all a matter of taste, though.

As for Cavill's charisma, I think he has enough to be fine(not exceptional) from what I've seen him in. As an actor, he's doing exactly what Snyder is asking of him. It appears to me that people can't extricate his abilities and the "not mah Superman" pushback.
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Foggy said:
Personally, I'll take the Cavill approach to the character than the pandering cornball of Reeves. I respect people who feel differently, but I think those Superman movies(including 1 and 2) have aged very poorly. It's all a matter of taste, though.

As for Cavill's charisma, I think he has enough to be fine(not exceptional) from what I've seen him in. As an actor, he's doing exactly what Snyder is asking of him. It appears to me that people can't extricate his abilities and the "not mah Superman" pushback.
Click to expand...

I was down on Cavill until I saw The Man From Uncle.

Like holy shit, dude is fucking hilarious and charming there. So yeah, I blame Snyder for not capitalising on that charm. Superman is corny, but he's also charming as fuck.
 
G

guek

Banned
Snyder's Superman is the only version of the character that feels like they hate being Superman. That's why the Flight sequence in MoS is so often praised, because that's the only scene I can think of where Caville looks like he's having a good time. I think that's also why you heard so many people point out Wonder Woman as a highlight, because her enjoying the battle is a stark contrast to everything Snyder had presented before.
 
I

IconGrist

Member
guek said:
Snyder's Superman is the only version of the character that feels like they hate being Superman. That's why the Flight sequence in MoS is so often praised, because that's the only scene I can think of where Caville looks like he's having a good time. I think that's also why you heard so many people point out Wonder Woman as a highlight, because her enjoying the battle is a stark contrast to everything Snyder had presented before.
Click to expand...

I don't think he hates it but in BvS it definitely feels like it he didn't fully understand what the reaction would be. He just thinks he's helping people and it doesn't make any sense to him why there is such a backlash.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
guek said:
Snyder's Superman is the only version of the character that feels like they hate being Superman. That's why the Flight sequence in MoS is so often praised, because that's the only scene I can think of where Caville looks like he's having a good time. I think that's also why you heard so many people point out Wonder Woman as a highlight, because her enjoying the battle is a stark contrast to everything Snyder had presented before.
Click to expand...

WW's smirk miiiiiiiiiiiiiiight be the best part of the entire movie
 
F

FeD.nL

Member
guek said:
Snyder's Superman is the only version of the character that feels like they hate being Superman. That's why the Flight sequence in MoS is so often praised, because that's the only scene I can think of where Caville looks like he's having a good time. I think that's also why you heard so many people point out Wonder Woman as a highlight, because her enjoying the battle is a stark contrast to everything Snyder had presented before.
Click to expand...

Except he does enjoy being Superman. When Clark is at Lex's party he makes the concious decision to save the girl in the building as Superman instead of Investigating Bruce as Clark. When he saves the girl from the building he has the biggest smile on his face when bringing the girl to her mother.

The thing he hates is people worshipping him. Which he tries to embrace in the montage but obviously feels uncomfortable with.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Anth0ny said:
How he handled them. Just off the top of my head, WHERE IS SHEEEEE I WILL FUCKING KILL YOU WITH LASER EYES HULK SMASH came off so fucking weird and unlike the Superman character. This Superman completely lacks any kind of composure, which is something I always associated with the character. I know they're trying to portray him as this young whippersnapper who can't control his powers yet, which is why he fucking flies through buildings and accidentally blows a bunch of shit up and kills a million people... but I just don't buy it. Again, unlikable. Superman is unlikable!

But that's mostly the fault of the writing and Cavill's poor acting and severe lack of charisma.

There's more charm in these 5 seconds:

1aaqujef.gif


Than Cavill has had in two entire films.
Click to expand...

Not everyone can be Christopher Reeve. And certainly not Henry Cavill, whom you've already described to a tee. In all "fairness" though, the screenplays for both BvS and MoS were super grim (and putrid).

The Icon said:
On the subject of Cavill I'm always a little off put with comments that he lacks charisma because he has loads of it. Maybe not Dwayne Johnson level but he's not deadpan or anything.

As for Superman, personally, him losing it over Martha seems in line. Even Reeve Supes lost it when Lois died and ignored his father's directive about interfering in human history to save her (which ultimately lacked any consequence).
Click to expand...

For me, Cavill has no charisma. He tries during interviews and such. But that's just not something you "try" at. For instance, I thought he completely bombed in the role of playing a suave/humorous spy in UNCLE. I know some people around here like that thing, but for me Cavill just didn't transmit any charm.
 
G

guek

Banned
FeD.nL said:
Except he does enjoy being Superman. When Clark is at Lex's party he makes the concious decision to save the girl in the building as Superman instead of Investigating Bruce as Clark. When he saves the girl from the building he has the biggest smile on his face when bringing the girl to her mother.

The thing he hates is people worshipping him. Which he tries to embrace in the montage but obviously feels uncomfortable with.
Click to expand...

Yeah, kinda, sorta if you pause it and squint. The thing about that scene is that it's still shot, edited, and scored to feel very dark and oppressive. It'd be one thing if Snyder shot it so that it the scene itself felt like Superman was enjoying saving this girl and then switches tone once everyone tries to lay hands on him out of reverence. The fact that it's hard to even make out the faint grin on his face doesn't make me think Snyder was trying to convey any joy from the character in that moment.
 
N

norm9

Member
I think another thing is he's still new at being Superman in the movie. From what i remember, in Man of Steel, he's barely donned the suit and then has to deal with Zod. And from what I remember in BvS, it takes place pretty close to the time of MoS, so he hasn't had too much time to get used to being Superman and enjoy it.

Though, now I'm wondering how that giant ass Super statue got made so quick, so maybe my timeline is wrong.
 
B

broncobuster

Banned
I get the sense Cavill still sort of struggles with his American accent. He's charming and natural when speaking in his native accent, be it in interviews or other roles. Watching Spy, I had the same impression of Jude Law.
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
jett said:
Not everyone can be Christopher Reeve. And certainly not Henry Cavill, whom you've already described to a tee. In all "fairness" though, the screenplays for both BvS and MoS were super grim (and putrid).



For me, Cavill has no charisma. He tries during interviews and such. But that's just not something you "try" at. For instance, I thought he completely bombed in the role of playing a suave/humorous spy in UNCLE. I know some people around here like that thing, but for me Cavill just didn't transmit any charm.
Click to expand...

Yeah he is the weakest part of UNCLE. On the other end I like Arnie so much he almost saves the movie.
 
S

suaveric

Member
norm9 said:
I think another thing is he's still new at being Superman in the movie. From what i remember, in Man of Steel, he's barely donned the suit and then has to deal with Zod. And from what I remember in BvS, it takes place pretty close to the time of MoS, so he hasn't had too much time to get used to being Superman and enjoy it.

Though, now I'm wondering how that giant ass Super statue got made so quick, so maybe my timeline is wrong.
Click to expand...

BvS takes place 18 months to 2 years after Man of Steel.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
I enjoyed it. I think the extra time certainly made it a lot more coherent and rounded it out nicely.

I don't think the cinematic cut was ideal, but I do feel it got far more criticism than it deserved.
 
J

Jombie

Member
Finally watched it last night. Not as bad as I was expecting but that still amounts to it being watchable shit. First half of the film is a complete mess; feels less like a movie and a vignette of strung together scenes that don't gel or could have been cut completely. The second half flows better but doesn't make anymore sense. I think Snyder wanted to make a movie that would have cool trailers.

As I expected, Affleck and Irons are the best part of the movie. Gadot is OK - she opens emails convincingly enough.

2/5.
 
L

LosDaddie

Banned
I've watched the UE 3 times now. Twice from beginning to end, and another while a bit distracted. So yeah, I'm a fan, but the movie has some (sometimes serious) flaws.

My final worthless thoughts (some parts belong in both categories):

LOVED

- Opening Metropolis scene. It does a good job setting up the movie & Bruce Wayne.

- Snyder definitely has his own visual style. The movie may be a lot of things, but it's not a bland looking movie.

- Nice to see Lois be an actual reporter in the UE. Same goes for the couple of short scenes of Clark doing some investigating.

- Smart for Snyder to copy the DKR comics with news panelists discussing the heroes. Brings a certain amount "realness" to the movie/universe.

- Best Batman combat on the big screen yet. Very brutal. (more on this below)

- I actually enjoyed and appreciated the Knightmare scene. It would've been better as an end-credits teaser since it teases Darkseid and a time-traveling Flash...but can't have end-credits teaser like MCU does when you're WB. I just enjoy seeing these teasers showing the path DCEU will go down in future films.

- Great to finally see DC's Trinity on screen for the final battle. Simply a sight to appreciate if you're a comics fan.

- Appreciated the risk WB took in killing off Superman so early in the DCEU. It's a bold move, and would be even more bold if he stayed dead for at least JL part 1.

- Batman vs Superman. It's a silly but fun fight. Enjoyable to see heroes beat each other up for a bit. (more on this below)

HATED

- Lex. Just horrible. He's a stuttering, unconfident, sniveling little man. Snyder's/Einserberg's interpretation of the character, even if just being the son of Lex, is just horrible. I want a confident, cocksure Lex who isn't afraid to look Superman in the eyes. Not some mixture of the Riddler & Joker. Horrible.

- Batman vs Superman. It's a fight I've never cared for in the comics, and the live action version turned out no different. Ok, so Superman is there to talk sense into Batman, who is obviously enraged, but Supes abandons that gameplan after getting hit with those sound weapons and turrets? Supes shoves Batman down on the street (twice) but instead of trying to talk to him some more, he decides to throw him through building.

- Literally LOLed when the military guy said that downtown Metropolis was mostly empty because the business day was over. Laughable. Simply laughable. I live in Orlando, travel to Atlanta a few times a year for work, go to NYC at least once a year during my family vacation (my in-laws are from upstate NY)...and major cities don't empty out after 5pm.

- I don't really care for a Batman with no regard for the lives of bad guys. He straight up murders a bunch of thugs in this movie.

- This is a dark (visually) movie. I know Batman's costume isn't supposed to be colorful, but at least give Superman's suit a scene or two to pop on screen. These are grown men (and women) in costumes fighting for justice. It's ok to have them look at little silly....it's expected to a point. Nearly every important scene is at night. Even the scene on Capitol Hill has muted colors...which brings me to...

- Capitol Hill bombing scene. Hated it. Created for shock value, and little move. We see a brief collage of Superman doing heroic feats, yet this bombing is supposed to turn the public against him? Even after Superman stays to help the victims? I don't buy it.

- Why would a super genius like Lex have his mercenaries use bullets that the govt can trace back to his lab? dumb

- Wonder Woman. People are really starved for a female superhero (understandable), but what a waste of a glorified cameo. WW is basically in the movie to land a couple zingers ("You've never known a woman like me") and for "Wow" moments in the final battle. It felt like Snyder was essentially saying to the audience: "Look! It's Wonder Woman! Isn't she cool? There she is! Look at her!" bleh. WAnt to know how to introduce a new character to audiences? Look at what Marvel did with Black Panther and Spider-Man.

- Didn't care for the sidestory with the black woman from Africa. Sure, it filled in some of the movie, but still not essential.

- Flash/Cyborg/Seaman mini-trailers. Swallow your pride, WB, and do proper end-credit teasers like Marvel. No one gives a shit if you copy one of things audiences (especially diehard comic fans) love about the MCU.



Overall, I'd give the movie about a 6.5/10. Enjoyable enough, but flawed. WB clearly going for Avengers-money without the groundwork Marvel put in.
 
Soapbox Killer

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
So there it is.

Ultimate Cut is better although I didn't hate the original movie, this just plays better. The movie overall is much better on a second viewing. Some of my problems with my first viewing :

My own expectation of the distance between Gotham and Metropolis. Now that I know they are "Twin Cities" on the east coast as opposed to my thinking "New York Vs Chicago", the third act makes much more sense. I can't remember if they show Bruce drive from Gotham Estates to Lex's party in the original cut but it feels much better. For some reason that almost killed the movie for me.

Stephenwolf Scene. How in the hell was this cut from the OG? I can't fathom why that was a good idea to imply that Darkseid was coming without showing the reason Lex had this notion. Baffling move by the editor or Snyder or both.



I still say this should have been 2 movies released at the same time Poke'mon style. Then the focus could have been better paced and the problems could have been eliminated via not having to tell 2 stories in on film without the films having more than one movie leading up to it.
 
C

CREMSteve

Member
Watched UE last night. Movie's still got the same pacing issues and the emo Superman.

Continue to hope Justice League is drastically different in tone.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Count Dookkake said:
Could see potential in the theatrical, but was put off by the lumpy middle hour.

Love the ultimate. This is epic superhero nonsense. The finale feels like a Godzilla movie. Definitely plays as a sequel to Man of Steel, so one's enjoyment/understanding would be improved by a recent viewing of that.

The movie is not without flaws, but the highs are so fucking high that it doesn't matter.

Snyder is the best comic movie director out there. Can't wait to see how he continues to shape this DC universe.
Click to expand...

He made Watchmen, he will always get a pass from me. Watchmen remains the best superhero movie to date.
I find it interesting that no one wants to talk about Terrio, since most of the disliked stuff was in the writing. You just know Terrio would get all the praise if it turned out well.
 
S

SolidChamp

Banned
This was better than the theatrical version, which was a mess.

With the connecting tissue added back in things felt more fleshed out and cohesive.

Still doesn't fix a few glaring issues, such as Caville's AWFUL delivery of the "The bat is dead. Bury it." dialogue, the bullshit with Lois and the spear, the Knightmare sequence (and Bruce's vision of the Flash), etc.

Still serviceable entertainment, and Affleck and Irons are an INCREDIBLE Bruce/Alfred pairing. Best onscreen depiction of Bruce Wayne, by a long shot.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Count Dookkake said:
Could see potential in the theatrical, but was put off by the lumpy middle hour.

Love the ultimate. This is epic superhero nonsense. The finale feels like a Godzilla movie. Definitely plays as a sequel to Man of Steel, so one's enjoyment/understanding would be improved by a recent viewing of that.

The movie is not without flaws, but the highs are so fucking high that it doesn't matter.

Snyder is the best comic movie director out there. Can't wait to see how he continues to shape this DC universe.
Click to expand...

You know, I thought the quality of your posts would drop with the mods' strict "no puns" policy on negative news threads, but you don't get enough credit for being right all. the. time.
 
D

dEvAnGeL

Member
for those who watched the original on cinemas and watched the ultimate cut what exactly is new? is there enough extra scenes to justify a purchase?
 
C

CREMSteve

Member
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
dEvAnGeL said:
for those who watched the original on cinemas and watched the ultimate cut what exactly is new? is there enough extra scenes to justify a purchase?
Click to expand...

YES. Gone is the confusing lack of establishing shots and plot lines that never quite link to anything else. Motives are clearer, the reasoning behind emotions is more obvious, as well.
 
M

Moreche

Member
Would like to buy this but iTunes don't have it and only google play sell it. But I don't know how well it'll play using my chrome cast to cast it from my phone.
 
W

WhateverItTakes

Banned
Saw it yesterday without seeing the original cut. 6.5/10

I love some of the ideas, and I actually like the gravitas of the whole Gods vs. Men angle, but so many aspects of the film just fell flat, or didn't reach expectations. The title fight was good, if a little short. Doomsday didn't have a lot too him, liked the shockwaves effect at least.

They tried to push there being people who liked Superman and those who were afraid, but they did an awful job of showing the former. The one scene I can remember of people liking the guy was when the crowd was around him and the mood was so sombre it didn't feel like they really loved him. Perhaps they'd assume we'd take that for granted, because of course we love the S man

Film was incredibly stuffed. Can't see what could have been cut for the original release, besides the dream sequences I guess but I know they were still included. It's odd. Everything was necessary scene wise, but still, there should have been more effort put in to release a leaner, more efficient movie.

Actors/Actresses all did a great job. Still sad we never get to see Cavill actually be happy as Supes though. He doesn't even get to be chipper. I guess I'm mildly interested in the Wonder Woman film now. Justice League by Snyder isn't exactly filling me with hope though.
 
H

hendersonhank

Member
Watched it last night.

Story is dumb.

Batman is puffy, sour, and a psycho who bizarrely dedicates his life to murdering a guy who tries to save lives 24/7, all because maybe theoretically possibly someday in the future he might inexplicably decide to become evil.

Superman is a joyless guy who always looks constipated.

Lex Luthor seems to want to be the Riddler or the Joker.

Utterly forgettable and dull, zero excitement anywhere to be found.

I can't imagine how the shorter version could have been worse.
 
M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
-Plasma Reus- said:
He made Watchmen, he will always get a pass from me. Watchmen remains the best superhero movie to date.
I find it interesting that no one wants to talk about Terrio, since most of the disliked stuff was in the writing. You just know Terrio would get all the praise if it turned out well.
Click to expand...

The problem is no one knows how much is Snyder/Goyer's vs. Terrio's. Moreover, the marketing tried to spin it as if it was Terrio's work more so than Goyer, possibly because of the hate Goyer got after Man of Steel. At least with Justice League, since Terrio is the only writer, we'll see how he does and notice any similarities with scenes in BvS.
 
A

Ahasverus

Member
MegaManTrigger said:
The problem is no one knows how much is Snyder/Goyer's vs. Terrio's. Moreover, the marketing tried to spin it as if it was Terrio's work more so than Goyer, possibly because of the hate Goyer got after Man of Steel. At least with Justice League, since Terrio is the only writer, we'll see how he does and notice any similarities with scenes in BvS.
Click to expand...
I think we can credit all dialogue to Terrio, it's very heavy and operatic, Goyer doesn't have the brain to write such words. Now the story beats are probably Goyer's and Terrio was asked to retool the dialogue around it. I dunno, the very first plot leak from the pre-Terrio days somewhat has the beats there.
 
F

ffejeromdiks

Banned
hendersonhank said:
Batman is puffy, sour, and a psycho who bizarrely dedicates his life to murdering a guy who tries to save lives 24/7, all because maybe theoretically possibly someday in the future he might inexplicably decide to become evil.

.
Click to expand...

Thing is, Batman is completely right. That glimpse of the future wasn't just a vision, it was an actual future where Superman loses Lois and betrays humanity. This time he has a chance to assemble the Justice League before that future ever comes to fruition.
 
Soapbox Killer

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
ffejeromdiks said:
Thing is, Batman is completely right. That glimpse of the future wasn't just a vision, it was an actual future where Superman loses Lois and betrays humanity. This time he has a chance to assemble the Justice League before that future ever comes to fruition.
Click to expand...


I assumed the "knightmare" Bruce Wayne saw was a future where Darksied wins and Superman is his herold. Is there a comic version of this story out there or did I just make this all up?
 
I

IconGrist

Member
Soapbox Killer said:
I assumed the "knightmare" Bruce Wayne saw was a future where Darksied wins and Superman is his herold. Is there a comic version of this story out there or did I just make this all up?
Click to expand...

Honestly, if you saw a pile of Superman comics and randomly grabbed one you have a good chance of it being about Superman turning on the world. DC loves that story for some reason.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
ffejeromdiks said:
Thing is, Batman is completely right. That glimpse of the future wasn't just a vision, it was an actual future where Superman loses Lois and betrays humanity. This time he has a chance to assemble the Justice League before that future ever comes to fruition.
Click to expand...

Not really, since multiple futures are possible. All it establishes is that it is indeed possible that superman can go bad, which...duh, anyone can.

Also, Bruce writes it off as a weird dream, one of several he's having. While we know it's real, it's not any kind of evidence of anything for Bruce.

The Icon said:
Honestly, if you saw a pile of Superman comics and randomly grabbed one you have a good chance of it being about Superman turning on the world. DC loves that story for some reason.
Click to expand...

Well, that's because it creates a very tense dynamic of what would happen if one of the biggest threats in the world turns against the JL, both as a physical and moral threat.

As opposed to if Batman turns evil, in which case the world is basically doomed.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
So I saw this and enjoyed most, thought some was dumb. But can someone explain the intermet's problem with Lois and the spear? I saw zero issues here and don't understand all these references to people being annoyed with her?
 
I

IconGrist

Member
Veelk said:
Well, that's because it creates a very tense dynamic of what would happen if one of the biggest threats in the world turns against the JL, both as a physical and moral threat.

As opposed to if Batman turns evil, in which case the world is basically doomed.
Click to expand...

How is evil Superman a threat but evil Batman = planetary doom?
 
S

SaintR

Member
Wanted to watch this last night but couldn't get the VUDU Disc&Digital deal to work for me. Anyone here able to get that deal working without a problem?
 
L

Lord Virgin

Unconfirmed Member
Kenzodielocke said:
It's fine.

I am 90 % sure they will pull off the Superman you guys want in the next movie.
Click to expand...

*Superman saving someone from a horrible death, smiling while doing so*

"omg what a psychopath!"

"fuck u Zach, god I miss Reeve."
 
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