Support NeoGAF

[ZeoVGM]

Nintendo spent 5 years to create a game that only sold 140K units. :lol Zelda is doomed.

Spoiler

2 days sales on a 350K userbase or not

No.

 

[Jiggy]

Why both? Because the market for games like Wii Play and Wii Sports isn't infinite and if you devote a hundred-person team to cranking out 10-man games that take a few months to make you'll flood the market and no more games will be sold?

Because hardcore gamers still represent an incredibly big and important demographic that is still profitable and still buys lots of games?

This argument is like traveling back in time to 1998. "Holy crap, this Pokemon thing is so popular, so cheap, so easy to make... we need to be concerned Nintendo will start making nothing but Pokemon!"

Indeed, or even step back further to something like Tetris, or some of the other best-selling games of all-time like, you know, Super Mario Bros. and SMB3. Don't exactly see games in those veins dominating all the market, now.

 

[ethelred]

Indeed, or even step back further to something like Tetris, or some of the other best-selling games of all-time like, you know, Super Mario Bros. and SMB3. Don't exactly see games in those veins dominating all the market, now.

Or, hell, if people really want a more recent and applicable historical analogy, look at the DS. The dreaded non-games sold explosively well there, but Nintendo's still making/publishing platformers (NSMB, Yoshi, Wario, Kirby, Peach, Starfy), adventures (Hotel Dusk, Project Hacker), RPGs (Pokemon, Starsign, Tingle), fighting games (Jump Ultimate Stars), action-adventure (Zelda: Phantom Hourglass)...

One sports collection sold well and one wiimote with a packed in minigame collection sold well. Great. So did Zelda, though, and a company would be insane to stop making that kind of game.

 

[NinSoX]

You guys are just waiting to be banned eh...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Uhhh....Wii play doesn't count because if you're buying a 2nd controller you may as well get it. So you have 1 game doing fairly well and that's barely selling to over 50% of the people buying the hardware. Meanwhile you have Zelda doing under 50% and the rest of the games doing complete shit.

You think this a DS level of success?

Zelda has got a better tie ratio than anything did during the first week of the DS. Looking back at that week DS sold 468,883 units, and using only the numbers for games listed in the top 10...

SM64DS: 151,373: 32.3%
Wario Touched: 148,825: 31.7%
Pokémon Dash: 56,337: 12.0%
Band Brothers: 33,911: 7.2%
Feel the Magic: 27,250: 5.8%
Polarium: 25,415: 5.4%

It's actually the opposite of what you were saying. Overall software sales for Wii are better, but they're MORE concentrated into the top few spots. Wii selling 350,358, the top six games (disregarding Wii Play, for the same reason you did)...

Wii Sports: 176,167: 50.3%
Twilight Princess: 139,011: 39.7%
Wario Waggled: 63,954: 18.3%
Pangya: 16,908: 4.8%
Namco minigames: 10,763: 3.1%
Red Steel: 9,392: 2.7%

So the Japanese buy 2 games that are a little less expensive in huge sums over 2 days? Crazyness. What is making them want quicker games?

Wii Play is nearly free, and Wii Sports has broad appeal but is still enjoyed by most people on this board who have played it.

2 days sales!=weekly sales

Well, usually a new game is available for 3 days in the chart, so it's not like the 2 days factor is a monster disadvantage by itself.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Nintendo spent 5 years to create a game that only sold 140K units. :lol Zelda is doomed.

Spoiler

2 days sales on a 350K userbase or not

Worst post in thread confirmed.


So poor it almost makes me cry.

 

[Oblivion]

Most of the fear that comes from the poor Zelda sales isn't that Nintendo will stop making Zeldas, but they will probably not make any more on the scale of TP.

 

[TekunoRobby]

One sports collection sold well and one wiimote with a packed in minigame collection sold well. Great. So did Zelda, though, and a company would be insane to stop making that kind of game.

I think the difference here is that Zelda: TP was one of Nintendo's largest titles they've ever developed and certainly one of their most expensive. There is a valid fear that they may take a step back and realize that such a Herculean effort isn't required in order to please their fanbase and expand their business. The Wii console itself is a testament to that line of thinking, hence why we have a machine whose graphical capabilities are considerably less than the competition's. Nintendo has also demonstrated this pattern through their software on the Nintendo DS and thankfully they've proven that they can create deep involving games simply through unique gameplay and innovative use of the touchscreen. I'm sure the trend will continue on through the Wii's lifespan but I hope we're due for another grand masterpiece from Nintendo sooner rather than later. On the flipside I’m glad that such a simple game like Wii Sports has been the system’s top seller in Japan. It seems to be indicative that the Japanese are embracing the Wii-mote and are lapping up titles which use it extensively as part of the gameplay.

..and you still show up gray for me on my Wii address book!

 

[Oblivion]

I think the difference here is that Zelda: TP was one of Nintendo's largest titles they've ever developed and certainly one of their most expensive.

It's actually their biggest AND most expensive title so far (and probably forever).

 

[linsivvi]

Why both? Because the market for games like Wii Play and Wii Sports isn't infinite and if you devote a hundred-person team to cranking out 10-man games that take a few months to make you'll flood the market and no more games will be sold?

Because hardcore gamers still represent an incredibly big and important demographic that is still profitable and still buys lots of games?

This argument is like traveling back in time to 1998. "Holy crap, this Pokemon thing is so popular, so cheap, so easy to make... we need to be concerned Nintendo will start making nothing but Pokemon!"

Totally Agreed.

This kind of illogical paranoia is like saying American Idols and teenage pop queens will make all other forms of popular music obsolete. Just because they are not at the top of the charts doesn't mean they won't get made and released any more.

Mainstream outnumbers hardcore so mainstream games will always sell more than hardcore games. Get used to it people.

 

[Stumpokapow]

It should also be noted that Zelda: TP has a 0.75 tie in with American Wiis, so it's probably already broken 500k in NA.

 

[Dante]

Surprising wii numbers all around, to be honest I expected much higher.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Surprising wii numbers all around, to be honest I expected much higher.

Why, exactly?

 

[Dante]

Why, exactly?

I thought zelda for one would have a much higer tie in.

 

[TekunoRobby]

I thought zelda for one would have a much higer tie in.

It should have been. That means 25% of all Wii owners are either waiting for the GameCube version or are idiots (or may not like Zelda : ( ).

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I thought zelda for one would have a much higer tie in.

IIRC, Twilight Princess has sold about 1/3 to 1/2 what Wind Waker & Ocarina managed on their launch weeks - and those two games came when both systems were established, not on launch day with limited supply.

Something like 40% of all new buyers were taking home a copy of the game - pretty good, IMO.

 

[ghstwrld]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those numbers are only for two days. WTF is the problem????

 

[jarrod]

I think the difference here is that Zelda: TP was one of Nintendo's largest titles they've ever developed and certainly one of their most expensive. There is a valid fear that they may take a step back and realize that such a Herculean effort isn't required in order to please their fanbase and expand their business.

I dunno... this is the sort of ideology that led to the critically and commercially underappreciated Mario Sunshine, The Wind Waker and the GameCube in general. It's also something that Nintendo's been rather vocal about turning around, instead now following their N64 model for fine tuning landmark releases. I don't we have much fear of seeing a return to the GC days, rather we'll something more like DS (big budget tentpole titles surrounded by lower end, new market driven concepts). And really, that's probably the best one could hope for.

 

[Azelover]

Most of the fear that comes from the poor Zelda sales isn't that Nintendo will stop making Zeldas, but they will probably not make any more on the scale of TP.

That is a given though, unless TP surpasses Ocarina's worldwide sales I can't see them putting this kind of resources into a game again. They could have made three or four games and sold many more copies using those same resources, much of what is in the game could have easily been split and sold as stand alone packs to great success. A lot of TP isn't business but fan service, which is all the more reason why it should be more appreciated than it is. Definitely not gonna happen again, at least not to this extent.

 

[7Th]

Posting in a legendary thread.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those numbers are only for two days. WTF is the problem????

Most games charted in the MC statistics for their first week are normally only out for 3 days.

 

[duderon]

I thought zelda for one would have a much higer tie in.

Look at the tie-in ratio for the DS. Super Mother****ing Mario 64 only had a tie-in of 32%. Zelda did better than this. What's the problem again?

 

[Dante]

Look at the tie-in ratio for the DS. Super Mother****ing Mario 64 only had a tie-in of 32%. Zelda did better than this. What's the problem again?

Games been hyped for like 4 years.

I don't think it's odd to be shocked that it was outsold by Wii Sports, and Wii Play.

 

[soundwave05]

Games been hyped for like 4 years.

That's kind of a silly rationale .... Mario Kart DS was a lot more hyped than Brain Training, but Brain Training far outsold Mario Kart DS.

That doesn't mean "OMFG!!! Mario Kart DS is teh bomba! No more Mario Kartz ever again! Only Mario Kart Training in futures confirmed!".

Mario Kart DS also sold very, very well and had very good legs itself. There was always a reasonable chance that Wii Sports was going to sell on par/slightly more than Zelda in Japan from the onset. Infact in Japan, Mario Kart DS outsold Mario Kart: Double Dash and Mario Kart: Super Circuit in the long run.

Don't think Nintendo didn't notice that.

 

[Neomoto]

Zelda sold more than 600.000 units within a single week in 2 regions with limited supply in the week the Wii launched. Overal tie ratio of ~ 60% of ALL Wii users (75% US) worldwide have the game in their hands. That's a ridiculously high attach rate.

Just think about that for a second, and in 3 days the Wii launches in Europe, so the salenumbers will only be higher (AND will have the whole holiday season ahead of it, worldwide, and of course the years to come that it will keep on selling). Excellent sales overal, at launch even. I don't understand wtf some people are expecting. Oh who am I kidding, "lolz Zelda selz teh crapsorz AUHAHAHAH" etc.

 

[Dante]

I don't understand wtf some people are expecting. Oh who am I kidding, "lolz Zelda selz teh crapsorz AUHAHAHAH" etc.

Look, nobody's bashing Nintendo's sales. They are pretty much kicking the competitions ass in every area of sales. That being said, it's a little surprising ( Too Me ) That Zelda was outsold by Wii Sports, and Wii Play in Japan. I don't really follow sales threads that well, so I prob don't know what I'm talking about

 

[soundwave05]

Also the whole "you could make 8 Wii Sports for the cost of one Zelda: TP ... so unless Zelda sells X million copies Nintendo will never make a Zelda again" rationale is stupid.

If the Blair Witch Project is a hit movie, does any major studio suddenly stop making $100 dollar big budget films and only do low budget horror films? Hell no.

There's different audiences for different product. Nintendo could make 8 different Wii Sports, but they'd oversaturate the market for that product and eventually end up losing that audience due to product burn out.

The Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, etc. franchises are not going anywhere because they continue to capture a large audience that Nintendo can still cash in on. The bigger question really should be is Nintendo making a profit off Zelda: Twilight Princess? Chances are the answer is a resounding yes, and they'll make more of those types of games in the future to satisfy a certain audience.

 

[WARCOCK]

I would really like to know why Wii play and wii Sports are being considered "NON-GAMES!?!?!?!". Both games dont actually involve any traditional "academic/cognitive" activities like the BT games, they dont pertain in raising a virtual pet and they are certainly not a collection of recipes.... Both ****ing titles are solely aimed at being FUN!!!!!!!1

 

[Bat]

I think using Wii Sports and Zelda as a sort of 1-2 punch has been a really good strategy. Sure, the former outsold the latter in Japan, but I can't emphasize enough how important having TP at launch in the US has been. I think it's the biggest reason the Wii has been a big success here so far.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I would really like to know why Wii play and wii Sports are being considered "NON-GAMES!?!?!?!". Both games dont actually involve any traditional "academic/cognitive" activities like the BT games, they dont pertain in raising a virtual pet and they are certainly not a collection of recipes.... Both ****ing titles are solely aimed at being FUN!!!!!!!1

You're late to the DS success story. I'll fill you in:

Any software title that exceeds 100 000 units sold is immediately branded a "non-game" by a certain fanboy game, which leads to the demise of "true gaming". Yes, they even called New Super Mario Bros. that.

 

[Sweedishrodeo]

the software sales dont suprise me at all.

 

[Y2Kev]

The real problem here is the Xbox.

Why isn't the original Xbox selling? Damn Japanese gamers with their non games and their funny name games like "Odoro Toko Senshi DS Adult Ninna Taka Training" or "Ochi Doki Artichoki Llama Adventure Okapu Sengku Wave 4." If American gamers, with superior products like Madden, don't do something about the problems afflicting our eastern brothers...

...well, there is no accounting for regional taste.

 

[Magicpaint]

You're late to the DS success story. I'll fill you in:

Any software title that exceeds 100 000 units sold is immediately branded a "non-game" by a certain fanboy game, which leads to the demise of "true gaming". Yes, they even called New Super Mario Bros. that.

Pretty much. :lol

The real problem here is the Xbox.

Why isn't the original Xbox selling? Damn Japanese gamers with their non games and their funny name games like "Odoro Toko Senshi DS Adult Ninna Taka Training" or "Ochi Doki Artichoki Llama Adventure Okapu Sengku Wave 4." If American gamers, with superior products like Madden, don't do something about the problems afflicting our eastern brothers...

...well, there is no accounting for regional taste.

:lol :lol What the hell did you just type. :lol :lol

 

[Xeke]

Look, nobody's bashing Nintendo's sales. They are pretty much kicking the competitions ass in every area of sales. That being said, it's a little surprising ( Too Me ) That Zelda was outsold by Wii Sports, and Wii Play in Japan. I don't really follow sales threads that well, so I prob don't know what I'm talking about

Aye. But you have an excuse then. There are actually people who read the sales threads and for some unknown reason thought Zelda would outsell wiisports and wiiplay.

 

[Y2Kev]

Pretty much. :lol



:lol :lol What the hell did you just type. :lol :lol

Yeah, it's real funny. Before you know it, we'll be playing games in America like "Happy Boat Ocean Adventure Time Sailing Fungame."

 

[kenta]

Yeah, it's real funny. Before you know it, we'll be playing games in America like "Happy Boat Ocean Adventure Time Sailing Fungame."

I, for one, welcome our new Happy Sunny Shiny Super Funtime overlords

 

[ToxicAdam]

Why are people surprised at the Zelda tie-in ratio? ALOT of Zelda fans are waiting for the GC version and the Wii also attracts the non-traditionl gamer who has zero allegience to a 3D Zelda game. They just want to play the games they are familiar with (generic sporting games) that are multiplayer.

It just comes down to that.

 

[Neomoto]

Look, nobody's bashing Nintendo's sales. They are pretty much kicking the competitions ass in every area of sales. That being said, it's a little surprising ( Too Me ) That Zelda was outsold by Wii Sports, and Wii Play in Japan. I don't really follow sales threads that well, so I prob don't know what I'm talking about

Well Wii Play is basicly free because of the free remote added in, and Wii Sports is just a killer app for the system (and cheaper). And it's not like the game outsold Zelda by a large marign, the 3 game are actually pretty close to eachother.

What I find surprising is that the tie ratio overal whas a lot higher in US, WITH a pack-in game. Also, the low 3rd party sales.. I mean, it's basicly 4 Nintendo 1st party games and the rest is not doing so great, maybe the top 3rd party games isn't even good enough to be in the top 20. Of course it could be due to the launch and because of such a strong 1st party showing but I hope it'll turn around. Because, you know, online Pokemon in 2 weeks aint exactly gonna help 3rd party's out.

 

[Masklinn]

If there were more systems, and if the PS3 actually had good games, they would've sold more. Honest.

I see what you did there

It's actually their biggest AND most expensive title so far (and probably forever).

Seeing how well it sells in NA (75% tie rate ftw) and should sell in Europe, the potential semi-failure in Japan shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Yeah, it's real funny. Before you know it, we'll be playing games in America like "Happy Boat Ocean Adventure Time Sailing Fungame."

 

[ethelred]

I think the difference here is that Zelda: TP was one of Nintendo's largest titles they've ever developed and certainly one of their most expensive. There is a valid fear that they may take a step back and realize that such a Herculean effort isn't required in order to please their fanbase and expand their business.

This is a fair point, but I still think there is an understanding within the company -- any company -- that expansion cannot come at the cost of foresaking existing demographics. Yes, it's the most expensive -- and it'll pay off, as the game will sell wonderfully in the US and in Europe, on the GameCube and the Wii. And it'll likely sell very well in Japan, too, once the final numbers are counted and we give the game a few months and an expanding userbase.

These kind of Herculean efforts are necessary to please a certain very important segment of the fanbase -- the kind that buys lots and lots of games (tie ratios for the casual stuff is good, but it sales of big hardcore totals overall are still higher, and these are largely the same people buying all those games).

I'm sure the trend will continue on through the Wii's lifespan but I hope we're due for another grand masterpiece from Nintendo sooner rather than later.

Oh, me too, absolutely. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not pulling the "The sky is falling!" routine a lot of folks here are, but of course I want to see Zelda sell better, of course I want to see games like these perform phenomenally. And yeah, I want them to continue making huge, grand masterpieces like this, and I'd like it sooner rather than later.

I just don't think these numbers are in any way going to discourage that course of action. I'm sure they find the Zelda numbers very encouraging, personally.

..and you still show up gray for me on my Wii address book!

Ah, crap, sorry. I thought I did. Can you send me a PM or something and I'll try to get it when I get home from work? :/

 

[Frankfurter]

Shouldn't we atleast wait atleast another two or three weeks before calling a "semi-failure" or sth. like that? I'm still pretty sure that it will sell great in Japan. Imo it'll sell a million+ (Wii and GC combined).

 

[ethelred]

Shouldn't we atleast wait atleast another two or three weeks before calling a "semi-failure" or sth. like that? I'm still pretty sure that it will sell great in Japan. Imo it'll sell a million+ (Wii and GC combined).

Yes, we should. Welcome to GAF.

We should also wait a month or so before declaring that third parties are invariably doomed on the console (as I bet when we see end of month December numbers for these games on Famitsus chart, a number of these otherwise niche games will have pretty decent sales).

But that's not quite how things work here.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Shouldn't we atleast wait atleast another two or three weeks before calling a "semi-failure" or sth. like that? I'm still pretty sure that it will sell great in Japan. Imo it'll sell a million+ (Wii and GC combined).

No. Gaf needs controversy.

 

[fresquito]

Why is people claiming Zelda sales are bad? What were people expecting, it to sell over half a million even when there're just 350k Wiis sold? It's dumb to come to conclusions with such a short insight. Maybe in a month time we can know how the game is performing, but from two days sales with a 350k units of installed base? Hell no.

 

[Ashodin]

WTF PEOPLE

Nintendo has already stated they'll still be supporting the hardcore. Whether or not the developers that are third party do the same thing is up to them. WE WILL STILL GET ZELDAS.

 

[Frankfurter]

WTF PEOPLE

Nintendo has already stated they'll still be supporting the hardcore. Whether or not the developers that are third party do the same thing is up to them. WE WILL STILL GET ZELDAS.

A few years ago Nintendo also stated that Mario 128 is a Gamecube game

 

[Oblivion]

WTF PEOPLE

Nintendo has already stated they'll still be supporting the hardcore. Whether or not the developers that are third party do the same thing is up to them. WE WILL STILL GET ZELDAS.

Most of the fear that comes from the poor Zelda sales isn't that Nintendo will stop making Zeldas, but they will probably not make any more on the scale of TP.

.

 

[herod]

A few years ago Nintendo also stated that Mario 128 is a Gamecube game

Pikmin rocks!

 

[sprsk]

.

There's always the american market.

 

[CorwinB]

Yes, they even called New Super Mario Bros. that.

New Plumber Training, you mean ?

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

where are the PS2/DS/PSP/XBOX360 sales for the week?