Arjen
Member
Damn, that's a shame. You were doing such a great job of articulating the differences between transgender and transable and why those differences should matter.
Damn you're on a roll today

Damn, that's a shame. You were doing such a great job of articulating the differences between transgender and transable and why those differences should matter.
Transracial is already a thing, that dude didn't invent the term.like I said in my post I have no real idea on this particular issue and am trying to avoid snap judgements but the X versus Y argument is lazy and reminds me of the South Park argument, also seen in his post where he used the term Transracial. Surprised he did not go full Cartman and say what about someone who wants to become a dolphin.
Why? On the surface, they both look like a mismatch between body and brain.Besides I feel gender, but my body presents as gender is a far cry from I don't feel like this limb is mine I need to get rid of it.
It only takes a toll if they claim some sort of disability benefit. Thing is though, you can't deny those benefits just because the disability was self-inflicted. Otherwise what do you do about people that permanently injure themselves falling down stairs or crash their car whilst drunk?Beyond the false equivalency there is also the fact that gender reassignment takes no toll on the public at large, whereas people disabling themselves on purpouse does.
There shouldn't be an argument against transgender people. Much of the progress in acceptance of transgender people might help the transabled gain acceptance though.Again I am not ready to dismiss these people, but using them as an argument against transgender people is pretty shortsighted.
I thought he was just saying 'fuck it, let 'em live'.The way he said the comment, it sort of seemed like he thought people were just coming up with random things to have and then social media was celebrating it so it's "whatever" at this point.
Maybe I took it the wrong way?
You're not ready to dismiss them, right after you just finished dismissing them? You have done nothing to posit a false equivalence beyond saying there is one. Nothing societally wrong with either transgender or transable, but as we can see from this thread, some arbitrarily decided one is ok and one is weird because reasons. Sounds like a familiar argument against transgender or homosexuality or any number of individual determinations that we increasingly as a society rightfully aren't making for others based on previous norms. Some consistent tolerance would be nice. "That's weird and wrong" or picking and choosing acceptance of individual rights to self determination are pretty gross.like I said in my post I have no real idea on this particular issue and am trying to avoid snap judgements but the X versus Y argument is lazy and reminds me of the South Park argument, also seen in his post where he used the term Transracial. Surprised he did not go full Cartman and say what about someone who wants to become a dolphin.
Besides I feel gender, but my body presents as gender is a far cry from I don't feel like this limb is mine I need to get rid of it.
Beyond the false equivalency there is also the fact that gender reassignment takes no toll on the public at large, whereas people disabling themselves on purpouse does.
Again I am not ready to dismiss these people, but using them as an argument against transgender people is pretty shortsighted.
Stop, I'm getting triggered. You don't want to see me when I'm triggered.
don't expect me to pay for, or support your applying for disability
real victims need that money, it's already stretched thin (and butchered) as is
this is disgraceful shit, these people need psychological help
I assume you are okay with paying for that "psychological help", right?
I'm waiting to hear the words "toxic" and "problematic" trotted out as well, myself, since they always seem to come in a set. Every topic needs to be turned into a "pro-SJW" and "anti-SJW" battleground these days.You're really mocking people who legitimately trigger when they read things that remind them of traumatizing events?
You really honestly think this is the same thing?
I'm waiting to hear the words "toxic" and "problematic" trotted out as well, myself, since they always seem to come in a set.
Ah, so you are just here to mock people, ok. No point trying to converse with you then.Stop, I'm getting triggered. You don't want to see me when I'm triggered.
You consider a surgical procedure as "mutilating"? Someone chopping their own arm off with a saw is mutilation, a trans person having a sex change is undergoing surgery.
What is YOUR definition of mutilation? since you don't seem to understand the difference between the two.
In the sense that both parties don't feel like they belong in their body the way it is and feel the need to correct it sure, it's the same thing.
As long as they aren't hurting anybody else I don't see what the big deal is.
In the sense that both parties don't feel like they belong in their body the way it is and feel the need to correct it sure, it's the same thing.
As long as they aren't hurting anybody else I don't see what the big deal is.
No, that's not what I meant by what a mental illness is, which is why I actually brought up homosexuality and paedophilia. Both are sexual preferences diverging from the norm. The difference is, there's no harm to society and/or other people if gay/lesbian people live out their differing sexual preferences, whereas there very much is with paedophilia. The difference isn't whether there's a cure, the difference is whether it's harmful to society, other people or one self.But there *is* a "cure" (and I'm not even sure that's the right word to use), from their perspective - amputation of the respective limb or body part. Also, even if that wasn't the case, I still reject your argument. Saying something is a mental illness only if there is no cure means that to be consistent you must also argue that having severe gender dysphoria was a mental illness only up until medical science had progressed to the point that gender reassignment surgery was possible, but not a mental illness after because it is now capable of being "cured". That seems a bizarre conclusion, not to mention a biased one: the use of the word "cure" from the start predisposes you towards thinking of it as a medical condition.
I never said anyone was weird or wrong, though I will admit as a disabled person disabling yourself does not sit right me. Beyond that in this thread I have said I do not know what's going on in their head, and I have no medical training so I will reserve judgment. That's pretty much the definition of tolerance.You're not ready to dismiss them, right after you just finished dismissing them? You have done nothing to posit a false equivalence beyond saying there is one. Nothing societally wrong with either transgender or transable, but as we can see from this thread, some arbitrarily decided one is ok and one is weird because reasons. Sounds like a familiar argument against transgender or homosexuality or any number of individual determinations that we increasingly as a society rightfully aren't making for others based on previous norms. Some consistent tolerance would be nice. "That's weird and wrong" or picking and choosing acceptance of individual rights to self determination are pretty gross.
Because by that very definition you are saying that trans people who go through a sex change are "injuring, disfiguring or making imperfect". Mutilation is a word used in a negative context. You say that a murderer has mutilated their victim, or a dog mutilated someone in an attack.So once these people find doctors to do their operations, does that mean we can make the comparison?
Here's Dictionary.com's definition: to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts.
That seems 100% applicable to removing penises, testicles, breasts, etc to me. Regardless of whether the person holding the knife has a medical degree on the wall.
Perhaps you can post a definition that agrees with what you said, so I can see if I'm mistaken in thinking the word "mutilation" quite obviously applies to cutting off major body parts.
One theory states that the cause of BIID is a neurological failing of the brain's inner body mapping function (located in the right parietal lobe). According to this theory, the brain mapping does not incorporate the affected limb in its understanding of the body's physical form.
Munchausen syndrome is a psychiatric factitious disorder wherein those affected feign disease, illness, or psychological trauma to draw attention, sympathy, or reassurance to themselves. It is also sometimes known as hospital addiction syndrome, thick chart syndrome, or hospital hopper syndrome. True Munchausen syndrome fits within the subclass of factitious disorder with predominantly physical signs and symptoms, but they also have a history of recurrent hospitalization, travelling, and dramatic, untrue, and extremely improbable tales of their past experiences.[1] There is discussion to reclassify them as somatoform disorders in the DSM-5 as it is unclear whether or not people are conscious of drawing attention to themselves.[2] In the current iteration, the term "somatoform disorder" (as used in the DSM-IV-TR and other literature) is no longer in use; that particular section of the DSM-5 has been renamed "Somatic Symptom and Related Disorders". Officially, Munchausen syndrome has been renamed "Factitious Disorder", with specificity either as "Imposed on Self" or "Imposed on Another" (formerly "by Proxy").
Munchausen syndrome is related to Munchausen syndrome by proxy (MSbP/MSP), which refers to the abuse of another person, typically a child, in order to seek attention or sympathy for the abuser. It is an obsessive want to create symptoms for the victim in order to obtain repeated medication or even operations.
Also, I'm usually very much in favour of people being the masters over their own body. I'm just having a hard time simply being okay with people wanting to mutilate themselves; very few people may have a need to do this, but if that's just okay then why even try to, yes, cure people who try to harm themselves in much less severe ways (e.g., cutting themselves)? Or saying being obese is bad for you? Or trying to cure anorexia? Etc. pp.
About a hundred years ago, the great neurologist Henry Head suggested that the brain contains maps of the body, and that these maps which he referred to as 'schemata' can expand to incorporate clothes, tools and other objects. "Anything which participates in the conscious movement of our bodies," he wrote in a classic 1911 paper, "is added to the model of ourselves and becomes part of these schemata: a woman's [schemata] may extend to the feather in her hat."
Head's idea was very prescient; it has been confirmed by modern research which shows that the brain's representation of the body is indeed highly malleable. This work shows that the body map can be temporarily altered by tool use, distorted by various drugs and diseases, and deliberately manipulated in illusions of bodily awareness. A study published today now reveals how the activity of individual brain cells changes as external objects are assimilated into the body map.
One of the most striking examples of body map's malleability is the so-called rubber hand illusion, which was first demonstrated in 1998. As the film clip below shows, the illusion can be induced by simple manipulations of the sensory information entering the brain, which create a discrepancy between vision and touch that tricks the brain into treating an artificial hand as a real body part, or taking 'ownership' of it.
The new study, led by Solaiman Shokur of L'Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) in Switzerland, involved inducing a virtual reality version of the rubber hand illusion in two macaque monkeys. Working in collaboration with Miguel Nicolelis and his colleagues at Duke University, Shokur strapped the monkeys into a customized chair, with their arms were hidden from view under a large screen. The screen displayed a pair of computer-generated arms, whose size and position closely resembled those of the monkeys' real limbs.
This kind of reminded me of a debate I was having the other day with a dude who intentionally got infected with HIV.
I imagine the number of people who want to self-amputate is so infinitely small that it's pointless to even discuss their impact on social benefits. Otherwise I foresee a certain group of people saying we should cut back on disability benefits because they feel some 'abuse' it.
I feel for the people that think they need to do this, but protecting behaviour like this is not healthy for the person or for society at large, and frankly I think labelling is as Transabled is a gross and massive slap to anyone going through serious and legitimate changes or thoughts of changes in the scope of what we traditionally would call "trans" issues (Gender, sexual preferences, etc)
Trans people have something in their brain that we can fix, assist or change (I'm not trying to be offensive with these terms, I actually don't know what term is better to use) to help them feel better in whatever body they can be in. "Trans-abled" people simply need mental help to fix up before they hurt themselves.
I'm usually not one to say this, in fact I usually recoil at it when it's said, but what is too far with this? Transabled, I don't want to walk, break my spine so I am a quadriplegic, I feel this is my natural state!! Transgendered individuals at least you can completely understand it's social constructs and how we live our lives, I mean who can really say "I had my awakening that I believed I didn't want my arms on my twelfth birthday".
What's next after this? Are we going to PC up people with suicidal tendencies and just let 18 year olds commit suicide after break ups? Are we going to let the people who "want" to get AIDS or HIV (bug chasing?) do this as well? I mean I just don't understand anyone who makes this comparison between Transgendered people and people who just want to physically hurt themselves. It's such a mockery of the former it's offensive.
Some problematic transablephobia in here.
I welcome these people with open arm.
Sorry, these people need professional help of the mental variety
With that logic homosexuality and transexuality are illnesses too? Just accepted by the public?Yep this is a mental illness
They'd take you up on that offer but... You know.Some problematic transablephobia in here.
I welcome these people with open arm.