Being bad at fighting games is the single most frustrating thing in my gaming history
- Thread starter Dr_Boris_Goltz
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Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
I've been there man. I was a shit player for all my P4A career and to some extent my BBCP time. It took me a 3rd fighting game that I played seriously (P4AU) to git gud.
revolverjgw
Member
I find one-on-one matches online to be absolutely nerve wracking. It's just me and the other guy and I can feel him judging my lack of attack variety and combo ability. It makes me too self-conscious to perform.
ShinMaruku
Member
That is just nerves, it destroys many players. Happens to me many times. It's why I don't do too much high stakes things in play.
Do you find it normal that people would go into something like that very young? I find that out of the ordinary.
In regards to having that clutch, I disagree on the part about developing that to an acceptable standard. Since you cited Tekken Tag 2, then you already know how much of a mess this game is at high levels outside of Korea, and Japan. Bronson constantly talks about how shitty high level play over here looks due to all of the dropped combos, missed punishes, and bad gameplanning that goes on in most of those matches. Sure, some people are able to develop that clutch to a ridiculous level. Inkog's recent performance vs JDCR is a fine example of that. Sure, Inkog didn't win, but man was that guy firing on almost all cylinders that night.
There are people that have been competing at a high level for far longer than he has and are still dropping shit left and right. Justframejames is probably the classic example here. Those matches of his at recent tournaments that people seem to adore are absolute messes and are only so intense because the dude drops all of these ridiculous set ups that he comes up with. In regards to execution, he has enough clutch to occasionally comeback from being behind, but with the way that he plays, he will probably never be a consistent winner.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Finally somebody else admits not everybody can get top 8 at evo. Passion and putting in work sometimes will never be enough.
That's what I've been saying this whole damn time guys.
I think Teknopathetic had the only rational response to me earlier here where he finally understood my argument and offered the only valid refutation I saw for it. After that I was finally happy.
MikeTheSponge
Member
You just need to put in the time, OP.
Grind in training mode, get those combos (or in your case, *****s) right, and do them again and again. Turn on the AI, and try to hit the same combo on moving opponents. Hit the combos out of confirms, counter-hits, whiffed specials, and what have you.
Go through arcade mode (in medium, so you have some measure of challenge), try to get used to the playstyle of different characters. Learn what's safe and what you can punish effectively.
Watch pros play. Look at what they're doing and not doing with the characters you use. You don't need to emulate them, just see what their good pokes are, and what they do in certain scenarios and match-ups.
Have some friends over and have some casuals. Playing with other people, no matter the skill level, will make you more comfortable in actual game scenarios.
If you have a local FGC in your area, it won't hurt to join them. People in the FGC are generally helpful towards newbies (if you don't act like you're the shit right off the bat). You might get more people to have casuals with.
Also, the most important rule is have fun with the game!
Grind in training mode, get those combos (or in your case, *****s) right, and do them again and again. Turn on the AI, and try to hit the same combo on moving opponents. Hit the combos out of confirms, counter-hits, whiffed specials, and what have you.
Go through arcade mode (in medium, so you have some measure of challenge), try to get used to the playstyle of different characters. Learn what's safe and what you can punish effectively.
Watch pros play. Look at what they're doing and not doing with the characters you use. You don't need to emulate them, just see what their good pokes are, and what they do in certain scenarios and match-ups.
Have some friends over and have some casuals. Playing with other people, no matter the skill level, will make you more comfortable in actual game scenarios.
If you have a local FGC in your area, it won't hurt to join them. People in the FGC are generally helpful towards newbies (if you don't act like you're the shit right off the bat). You might get more people to have casuals with.
Also, the most important rule is have fun with the game!
and git gud tho
You're not the only one Graffgor, I consider my self a great player for almost any MP and SP games, but when it comes to a fighting game, I'm very bad at it, I don't even consider my self good playing against the AI Lol, I cant do a consistent combination of tricks and punches like great fighting players do... and even worst with someone else online.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
I started playing in tournaments in 2005 and didn't place top 8 until 2011. Tournament nerves were a big factor in that. Took years to get over it.
I'm saying that not everyone has the capacity to do that. Execution in the clutch is not something that's unique to video games either, so there's many examples of this in most other competitive outlets.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
I also think competition also matters, Koreans probably run into situations that require that clutch more than people outside of those Korea. s.Korea has a high concentration of high level players, the high level players know what to do when a certain situation arises in a tournament. Tekken isn't the most poppin game in the states, they probably dont run into these clutch situations most of the time, so when they come up the player may not even be in that mindset as they dont have to 99% of the time they play the game.
I bet if JFJ moved to s.korea his game would improve tremendously. But hes not going to do that just for Tekken. I still think anyone can be evo champ but that person has to put in a ton of time and possibly other things to get that good
gameoverbro
Member
Mortal Kombat x has been the hardest game for me to win in. I'm bad at all fighting games but none come close. I can go play Killer Instinct now and get some wins easily. I just don't know what it is.
ShinMaruku
Member
That is all I am saying. Nothing I am saying is about getting to ground level. I am just attacking the notion than any yahoo can get top 8. There are any factors against that.
That whole variation thing is wack and it's a great example of what aggravates me about 2D fighters. Raiden without a teleport, whatever next?
Probably for the best, to be honest. If it hasn't clicked in 25 years then maybe it's not meant to be.
That is all I am saying. Nothing I am saying is about getting to ground level. I am just attacking the notion than any yahoo can get top 8. There are any factors against that.
Yes, unwillingness to train for hours learning every thing about the game, not knowing how to train, lack of competition around you, tournament nerves. All things that can be changed and any yahoo can do. Most wont understandably tho
If that's the case: Then why aren't all moves a variant of 360's and a button? I mean if I can just faceroll on a stick and somehow get the combo move that the combo training wants out, why... would it show different?
To Far Away Times
Member
If you're just starting out it's worth it to spend an hour and learn the framework for fighting games. When should you use which moves (why do you have a fireball and a dragon punch with the same character?), what are footsies, overheads, mixups, why you should use throws, etc...
Don't even worry about combos yet.
Just getting that foundation I've found is the key. I've found it's almost always easiest to start with Ken or Ryu in one of the Street Fighter games.
For every situation you should have some kind of goal, you should never just be throwing out moves.
Once you understand the framework, it kinda clicks and you'll make progress much faster in all other fighting games.
Don't even worry about combos yet.
Just getting that foundation I've found is the key. I've found it's almost always easiest to start with Ken or Ryu in one of the Street Fighter games.
For every situation you should have some kind of goal, you should never just be throwing out moves.
Once you understand the framework, it kinda clicks and you'll make progress much faster in all other fighting games.
Because doing the motion the right way allows you to move around, buffer the input into movement and moves to hide the motion, and release it at will. Mashing it out like that, and you can do it that way in sc2 since the buffer window is so lenient, means you give up control for ease of use.
Because doing the motion the right way allows you to move around, buffer the input into movement and moves to hide the motion, and release it at will. Mashing it out like that, and you can do it that way in sc2 since the buffer window is so lenient, means you give up control and utility for ease of use.
MisterLuffy
Member
Don't have the patience nor time to practice fighting games in depth. Lack of motivation, I usually question myself on why I'm trying to get good at fighting games when I don't have anyone around me to test my skills or help me get better. I'm not sure how to practice match ups in training mode, and I'm lazy in checking which moves are safe or unsafe. I'm really bad at punishing people's mistake during a match. Whether is 5 or more matches, for some reason I don't try to stop and ask why I lose most of the matches. I'm really bad at downloading my opponent. Lack of mentality, losing matches always bother me. I get really frustrated when I make mistakes, and falling for my opponent's tactics.
I used to be godlike in Mortal Kombat 1 to 3 and Killer Instinct 1 and 2 but that was like what ? 15-20 years ago ? Don't care about the genre anymore now.
What I remember is that it's not really the combo's that matter but more the little things like how to find an opening in your opponents defense, how to keep constant pressure, what moves can be countered by others, how you can do chip damage , draw your oponent out etc etc.. That stuff only comes natural if you play A LOT though and you need good reflexes.. I was spending more time in the arcades back then than in school. Good times..
What I remember is that it's not really the combo's that matter but more the little things like how to find an opening in your opponents defense, how to keep constant pressure, what moves can be countered by others, how you can do chip damage , draw your oponent out etc etc.. That stuff only comes natural if you play A LOT though and you need good reflexes.. I was spending more time in the arcades back then than in school. Good times..
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I have played a ton of fighting games, but I still only can get shoryukens off 80 percent of the time I try. Ask me to chain anything more together, and it never happens, no matter how hard I try. I have spent hours in the practice/training modes of multiple games, and everything past the simple fireball motions just seem impossible.
I can still win without combos, and I do have a basic understanding of fighting game fundamentals, but it's not really fun when you spend 10 seconds in the air getting combod for 30% of your health, and you respond with a 10% 3 hit mash light punch combo.
Thankfully Smash 4 isn't so input heavy.
I can still win without combos, and I do have a basic understanding of fighting game fundamentals, but it's not really fun when you spend 10 seconds in the air getting combod for 30% of your health, and you respond with a 10% 3 hit mash light punch combo.
Thankfully Smash 4 isn't so input heavy.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
It depends on the game, but on most with normals that cancel into special moves, the trick is to buffer in the move you want as an extension of the move you input.
So d+MK df, f HP for a cancel into a hadouken. (It's easy enough to just mash it TBH.)
The cancel part means you gotta get that done before the normal's animation finishes.
SF IV's stranger due to the one frame links, but similar principles still apply.
Tutorials can help convert some casuals just not the majority of them and that's fine. Fighting games need to find ways to attract more people to play them regularly to keep the community from descending further into a small niche and a lower barrier to finding info to "get gud" in the first place is welcome. An in game system to teach you and importantly tell you what your doing wrong is very valuable if you don't know anyone who could help you with that.
Virtua Fighters tutorials converted me from a guy who just plays arcade mode into wanting to learn to get better. On the other hand some 2D game tutorials overwhelmed me and put me off trying. Mileage can vary but its worth putting them in there even to convert just a few.
Also please devs put some more modes in there a casual player can enjoy. Mortal Kombat gets that right, its not top of my list of fighters to play but I applaud it for that.
I'm very very average, but as soon as I started paying close attention to the timing of everything and made a small range of moves second nature I improved drastically.
Thankyou for contributing..
Thankyou for contributing..
I agree about the tutorials, they definitely have a place. They are there to get new players who want to put the time in to get better up to speed.
I think the big problem with getting completely new players to invest the time to get better is that there's no Trojan horse that secretly teaches the player what they need to know without deliberately explaining it like they're reading a text book. Another genre that has a lot depth and requires the player to be skilled at obtuse mechanics to be good is character action games. Those games typically put in "skill checks", usually in the form of bosses, that require the player to use a certain mechanic if they want to move on in the game (ex: the robot dog from MGR and parrying).
There isn't an immediately intuitive way to put something like that into the single player of a fighting game. Sure, developers might add a challenge mode where a particular challenge would be that an opponent can only be damaged by specials canceled from normals or something. However, that information is still conveyed with a dialogue box. It isn't something that the player would stumble on intuitively and incorporate into their play because of the benefits it provides.
Send me a PM,
Basically all I did was teach people to play fighters. MK may be something I'd have to get used to, but I can help out if you like.
Manbig; its the Internet. There's no claims of "hard" evidence. All I know is that I've see this narrative play out time and time again, anecdotally. The biggest (negative) impact elaborate tuts had on me were the earliest: VF4:EVO. The game everyone claimed descended from the high heavens and was exactly what was needed to help crawl FGs out of its niche existence (this is back in 2002). I agreed: until I got my friends to sit down and attempt the tutorial.
They quit the genre completely. I was devastated. Here I was, for years, trying to get my friends to improve in FGs because they wouldn't play me in them anymore since they couldn't challenge me. They'd play a new game for a few days and quit after I caught my bearings. Me, thinking EVO's capacity to teach would motivate them, only got them to pack it up for good.
Thankfully, I eventually stumbled into the competitive scene shortly after. I'd have gone mad if I couldn't play FGs against humans.
Purely anecdotal, yeah, but I've seen this happen numerous times over the years, irl and on the Internet - enough to notice a trend. It made me do a compete 180 on FG tutorials.
They have their place, but more fundamental and important is motivating and convincing people that playing FGs competently is worth the investment in time in the first place.
It's of my experience that people that are converted by an elaborated tutorial - didn't need the tutorial to be converted in the first place. They just needed to be exposed to some pronciples of high-level play to get hooked. They could just get wrecked on the Internet and become a convert. They could get exposed to a tournament stream or YouTube combo video and become converted. The tutorial serves that player, the one that is motivated to learn in the first place, not the one that just wants to relax and turn his/herbrain off after a long day of work.
The games have to evolve from their niche caste before the community does. They're still developed and designed under '90s arcade principles. The FG is probably the most antediluvian genre in existence today; their design docs still center around an input device that houses a large, digital lever and not enough focus on entertaining, or at least marketing towards, those not competitive-minded.
The irony here is that the Smash series has been a paragon of potential evolution for... 15 years now? the fact that more devs aren't mining that series for ideas, rather than just copying the 4 player dynamic wholesale, baffles me.
They quit the genre completely. I was devastated. Here I was, for years, trying to get my friends to improve in FGs because they wouldn't play me in them anymore since they couldn't challenge me. They'd play a new game for a few days and quit after I caught my bearings. Me, thinking EVO's capacity to teach would motivate them, only got them to pack it up for good.
Thankfully, I eventually stumbled into the competitive scene shortly after. I'd have gone mad if I couldn't play FGs against humans.
Purely anecdotal, yeah, but I've seen this happen numerous times over the years, irl and on the Internet - enough to notice a trend. It made me do a compete 180 on FG tutorials.
They have their place, but more fundamental and important is motivating and convincing people that playing FGs competently is worth the investment in time in the first place.
It's of my experience that people that are converted by an elaborated tutorial - didn't need the tutorial to be converted in the first place. They just needed to be exposed to some pronciples of high-level play to get hooked. They could just get wrecked on the Internet and become a convert. They could get exposed to a tournament stream or YouTube combo video and become converted. The tutorial serves that player, the one that is motivated to learn in the first place, not the one that just wants to relax and turn his/herbrain off after a long day of work.
The games have to evolve from their niche caste before the community does. They're still developed and designed under '90s arcade principles. The FG is probably the most antediluvian genre in existence today; their design docs still center around an input device that houses a large, digital lever and not enough focus on entertaining, or at least marketing towards, those not competitive-minded.
The irony here is that the Smash series has been a paragon of potential evolution for... 15 years now? the fact that more devs aren't mining that series for ideas, rather than just copying the 4 player dynamic wholesale, baffles me.
ShinMaruku
Member
Smash has had the most evolution BECAUSE it does not focus on the 90s arcade attitude, they decided to make a game that is fun in a multiplayer setting with deep mechanics and a great fun factor.
Not once did Sakurai and team say "We are making a fighting game" I know some people poo-poo his comments but I guarantee if he was not behind this game it would never have the appeal it does. It's a testament to his and his team's skill at their craft. This is why Nintendo is top notch.
You may shit on them for their ideas on online and what not but you find me a company out side of Sony (Who are only there because like Nintendo they are insane and have been doing this for over 15 years. Give them 5 more years and they will probably equal Nintendo in the quality department for their top tier development) who put the same amount of care into their games.
Of course nobody else has copied them, they have the wrong focus they only settle on their niche then have the wrong idea how to broaden the appeal. What's worse is the deeper you are into fighting games the harder it is for you to see outside perspectives. Like those who say "Oh this ain't hard" You been doing for hundreds of hours of course it's not hard. But if you brain does not have those connections and you suffer from information overload how in the fuck do you expect it to be easy?
Not once did Sakurai and team say "We are making a fighting game" I know some people poo-poo his comments but I guarantee if he was not behind this game it would never have the appeal it does. It's a testament to his and his team's skill at their craft. This is why Nintendo is top notch.
You may shit on them for their ideas on online and what not but you find me a company out side of Sony (Who are only there because like Nintendo they are insane and have been doing this for over 15 years. Give them 5 more years and they will probably equal Nintendo in the quality department for their top tier development) who put the same amount of care into their games.
Of course nobody else has copied them, they have the wrong focus they only settle on their niche then have the wrong idea how to broaden the appeal. What's worse is the deeper you are into fighting games the harder it is for you to see outside perspectives. Like those who say "Oh this ain't hard" You been doing for hundreds of hours of course it's not hard. But if you brain does not have those connections and you suffer from information overload how in the fuck do you expect it to be easy?
balladofwindfishes
Member
I've had it since release, but I went online in For Glory on Smash 4 for the first time yesterday and lost 6 games in a row. Only one of which wasn't a complete and utter stomp (2 stocked with <100 percent on the enemy) and that was because I was playing my best character (Toon Link).
So I've kind of written off For Glory for now, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.
Also, for Street Fighter, I'm enjoying the 3DS version recently (I bought it last week). It has hotkeys on the touch screen for doing specials, so it solves the biggest issue I have with the series, trying to remember all of the character's movesets.
So I've kind of written off For Glory for now, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.
Also, for Street Fighter, I'm enjoying the 3DS version recently (I bought it last week). It has hotkeys on the touch screen for doing specials, so it solves the biggest issue I have with the series, trying to remember all of the character's movesets.
I like how you put "BECAUSE" in huge caps as though you're controvertng my point. You're saying the same thing.
And no, FGs are not hard to play if you're willing to play people at your skill level. They're potentially among the most gradient genres in terms of accomorating skill levels by virtue of what they are. There's just not enough people playing them. There's just social and psychological barriers that get in the way of realizing that, due to that same nature (1v1 competitive).
And no, FGs are not hard to play if you're willing to play people at your skill level. They're potentially among the most gradient genres in terms of accomorating skill levels by virtue of what they are. There's just not enough people playing them. There's just social and psychological barriers that get in the way of realizing that, due to that same nature (1v1 competitive).
Karsticles
Member
It is out of the ordinary because modern parenting is pretty hands-off compared to what it could be. If you expose a child to a concept thoroughly throughout his/her major growth period where language and other basic skills are learned, amazing things can happen. It's not that these children are special, though. They just had parents that cared enough to nurture them well at a young age.
Carl Sagan, for example, had parents that exposed him to mathematics at a very young age. His parents would just take turns sitting with him and doing various kinds of math problems. He wasn't genetically gifted, he just got to practice complex math about 10 years before the rest of his peers. I was taught Algebra in 3rd grade, and as a result I slept my way through Calculus when I got to it in high school. Almost all of the divide between human intellect is explainable in terms of environmental differences. Undoubtedly, you do have the mentally handicapped, which are often limited (though moreso in terms of communication and sociability than mental capacity, I am learning).
SliceSabre
Banned
I am shit at fighting games too, but I'm okay with that and enjoy them all the same. I gain a lot of joy from being able to hit people with ultras and supers in them.
shouamabane
Member
I suck at fps games. Something about aiming and shooting isn't that interesting to me, and I'm just no good at it.
Lostconfused
Member
No shit. It's a video game. People want to play it to have fun. Most people don't want to put in work, why is that strange or odd?
Because if you don't want to work to be competent at a thing, you have zero claims to any sense of pride associated with the activity.
This is life.
It's fine not to want to put "work" into a game, but this means you forfeit any right to be upset when you lose to someone that does. It's fundamentally childish.
Hence, why the OP's attitude is "terrible".
sixteen-bit
Member
losing badly in a FG is like getting ur soul snatched
Thanks for this. Always intended on learning how to properly (competitively) play fighting games. Good start, this was.
I am not good at them either. Playing mkx i just spam milenna abilities, 3 moves over and over again. Might not sound like fun to alot of people,but its Hilarious to me. Everyone gets so angry. My ps4 messages are filled with hate mail. Current ranked record is 190/18. Been losing more frequently lately, so it seems people are catching on to milenas bullshit.
ShinMaruku
Member
I will give you that that if there are people at your level they are very fun and if you get people who grow at a similar rate to you you can see some fantastic growth but it's not like that in practice, it's never like that in practice there are large skill gaps in fighting games today because they are niche, If Tekken had a great skill gradient that was gradual I'm sure much more people will go through it. But it's very niche and by virtue that it's so competitive people will get crushed and unless it's gradual or you are one of the rare human beings with ambition most will get frustrated and leave only the converted and the enthusiasts.
Wish I knew how they could keep a large enough player base that can gradually fill up the skill levels to make it slope more gently but I don't have those answers and if I did game development is too slap dash to make that even a worthy endeavor.
Perhaps if they find better ways of teaching people through game modes that can change. But that's impossible the people making these games don't know how to do that so I would not expect them to do it.
Since modern parenting is that hands off and detached where parents don't take the time to actually exploit the natural inquisitiveness of childhood I would argue those are the exception and not the rule. Mind you I am not saying genetically is the only reason why some people are outliers, it could also be the background they are in, the parenting they receive. As I said it's never so simple. If I was implying that it's just simple genetics and not epigenetics and other sources I apologize.
Also I think some of you give humanity too much credit when you try to put logic in people bitching because somebody put more time into a game beating them as unfair. Those people are full of shit and should be laughed at.
Perhaps maybe it's me who don't give people enough credit. But in my experience it's only when shit is dire do you get the best out of people. Otherwise they are just all over the place and never reliable.
Storm Kyleis
Member
Sounds like you're just playing with people more skilled than you. It takes a lot of losing to improve.
Losing is never a bad thing if you are learning from it.
Losing is never a bad thing if you are learning from it.
You need to win to have fun? It's a competitive game. You can't pick up a baseball bat for the first time in your life and expect to compete in the Major League.
Lostconfused
Member
Counter point. What time do people spend on a fighting game? Their free time, leisure time, the time they could spend doing absolutely anything else. We are ignoring here tournament players that can actually make money from doing something.
So chances are they are looking for an enjoyable activity, to get whatever positive emotional feedback they can get from it. Fighting games most of the time don't offer that return, not until you put in a ton of work into them. So yeah people are going to be upset that they wasted their time, people will obviously refuse to actually work for anything during their free time. It's human nature, it's terrible but it's not changing.
Same to you.
Edit: And no, you don't have to win to have fun. But if there is no fun to be had for that person then they won't be sticking around.