Ben Carson says prison proves being gay is a choice.
- Thread starter Coins
- Start date
- Status
Not really.
It looks to be a party of rich silver spoon kids who are able to underachieve their way into the best of schools. Wasn't Bush a C student at Yale? Then waltzed into HBS.
Exactly. I mean comments like this
are downright offensive to me. That's like saying it's impossible to choose to be a gamer. You're either born liking video games, or you aren't. Being a gamer is not a choice.
That's what I'm wondering too. If Homosexuality is a choice then isn't heterosexuality by default, a choice too?
What? Comparing Sexual orientation to a hobby?
I'm more talking about donors to the republican party like the Koch brothers.
This is satire right?
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
What?
Sexuality is instinctive and part of what makes us human.
Liking videogaming isn't.
In order to be a gamer you must first choose to commit the act of playing games, in order to be a murder, you must first commit the act of murder, in order be a thief, you must first commit the act of stealing...etc. In order to be gay, there is no act required. Choices are based on actions/inactions one makes. Attraction is not an action; it's a feeling. Unlike, being a gamer, where it requires an action to be one, you don't have to kiss someone of the same sex, sleep with someone of the same sex, date someone of the same sex...etc in order to be gay. Choosing to be gay can't be done.
Too subtle.
Ah, I see.
So are life experiences which mold who we are. I don't believe it's a one size fits all for every person.
You're right, of course. Very few things about humans are absolute.
It is reasonable to say that in general and as far as current science can tell us, homosexuality is not meaningfully a choice, any more than one chooses their own fingerprints.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Carson may be educated but he's still a fucking idiot.
I think it's fairly well known that convicts who engage in homosexual behavior while in prison are not homosexuals. That is, they are not attracted to the opposite sex. If they had a choice between raping a man or a woman in prison, they'd go for the woman, but men are all that's available.
I think it's fairly well known that convicts who engage in homosexual behavior while in prison are not homosexuals. That is, they are not attracted to the opposite sex. If they had a choice between raping a man or a woman in prison, they'd go for the woman, but men are all that's available.
Ah yes I vividly recall the day when I decided to be straight after reading a particularly compelling opinion piece in The New Yorker.
C'mon, people.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The part that's stupid is how fucking fixated GOPers are in justifying their burning hatred of gay people.
Its also unquestionably a choice to not be a Christian and to have a non-Christian marriage, but I don't see Carson jumping up and down to annul anyone else's relationship status.
Its also unquestionably a choice to not be a Christian and to have a non-Christian marriage, but I don't see Carson jumping up and down to annul anyone else's relationship status.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Why would he say something so stu-
Ohhhhhhh
Ohhhhhhh
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
BTW Carson, if you want to cut down on all this dirty sinful prison sex you should stop putting so many people in fucking prison
Lamel
Banned
I am always in disbelief whenever this guy says this sort of stuff. I feel like he's like a parody on purpose, the stephen colbert of the medical world.
They are, though, at least in a way; science is inherently involved with medicine. Especially these days with the amount of research doctors partake in.
They are, though, at least in a way; science is inherently involved with medicine. Especially these days with the amount of research doctors partake in.
CornBurrito
Member
Don't know why you only bring up female examples when Carson was clearly talking about men.
Also more people would be willing to accept your position if religious people didn't often package it with "thus homosexuality can be treated/cured."
Of course I half expect you to link some ex-gay therapy success stories to show that we can't take an absolutist position even with that.
A person should not ask if homosexuality is a choice, but if being a homosexual is a choice. The term "homosexuality" embodies everything to do with being a homosexual; the attraction & the same sex acts a homosexual may participate in. The part of being a homosexual is not a choice, while participating in same sex acts is a choice.
Okay, it is possible that Ben Carson's words illustrate that religion uniquely has this issue. Or, it could illustrate that humans are generally quite contradictory and often lack an overarching uniformity to their beliefs.
I will use the example of one of my relatives. She is studying and academically excelling at Western medicine, but still holds beliefs that stem from her Asian upbringing, such as the idea that foods are either "heating" or "cooling" to the body. As far as I know, Western medicine does not regard this very seriously, but she manages to have knowledges and beliefs of both. Both are equally factual to her, and to many others like her.
My view is thus that people's beliefs are heterogeneous, deceptively polyphyletic, and/or often in direct conceptual opposition to each other, mainly because there is no pressing force strong enough to make us align our beliefs according to logic, rationality, or any particular ideology or line of thought. I can think of cognitive dissonance, which I do not know much about, though I suspect that it must be quite easily circumnavigated to produce the contradictions we see so often.
Edit: I should also add that "intelligence" may not be as transferable a quality as we are treating it in this discussion; an intelligent mathematician may give a very unintelligent opinion on racial issues. Does the field Ben Carson works in generally encourage or require critical thinking, for example?
Always-honest
Banned
Well, maybe just to banana peels..
crazygambit
Member
It is though. Say that they're right and it indeed is a choice. So what? Does that mean, that suddenly, their argument holds water? Who are they to tell other people how to live?
It's completely irrelevant one way or the other and engaging with bigots in that discussion is a mistake IMO.
I'm not sure why some people are surprised that doctors are religious.
Maybe its just here (doubt it) but pretty much every good hospital is ran by a church or associated with religion.
(from best hospitals in my area)
1. Barnes Jewish
2. Baptist Medical Center
3. Mercy Medical Center (catholic)
4. St. Luke
5. St. Joseph
Maybe its just here (doubt it) but pretty much every good hospital is ran by a church or associated with religion.
(from best hospitals in my area)
1. Barnes Jewish
2. Baptist Medical Center
3. Mercy Medical Center (catholic)
4. St. Luke
5. St. Joseph
But it's not a choice, and it automatically shuts down their idiotic arguments. Also, a homophobe that knows homosexuality is not a choice might be less of a monster if his son or daughter turns out to be gay.
Eh, I've never really been sold by this logic, and there's some very good literature questioning that.
This is worthwhile reading, if fairly academic: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0226712095/?tag=neogaf0e-20
The author's argument is that "immutability" is a poor basis for rights, and that religion makes a better parallel than race.
DrGonzo615
Banned
foot, meet mouth.
What a dumbass.
What a dumbass.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Ben Carson has a right to his own opinions, and if he wants to give Tea Party speeches and make people like Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck swoon that's one thing. But why in the hell do people think he'd make a great President? Has their ever been an elected president who never held any political office before?
(Note, yes, I'm aware of Washington. He was also not elected President)
(Note, yes, I'm aware of Washington. He was also not elected President)
Sexual behavior is a choice in that you can decide to not have sex with anyone, for whatever reason, but sexual identification is not only not a choice, but it's also not related to homosexuality.
And preventing gay people from having sex means limiting rights of people before they present any behavior, so yeah.
He has a history of saying stupid crap when it comes to gay issues...
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...on-continues-his-tradition-making-absurd-anti
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...on-continues-his-tradition-making-absurd-anti
I made that comparison to make it sound more ridiculous.
The notion that whether someone would like yellow or blue, classical music or pop music, pepsi or coke, android or ios are all determined before they were even born sounds like an argument from a hard determinist to me. It completely disregards human free will and devalues people's life choices. Saying that you can't choose to be gay because you're either born gay or you're not is offensive becuase as it suggusts humans are like robots, i.e. only do what they're programmed to do (and in humans' case, only do what their genes tell them to do), when in reality people's life experiences, more so than genes, are what make people who they are.
speculawyer
Member
So I guess that Ben Carson would like to suck dick but he chooses not to.
It doesn't, but avoiding educating people on the matter is hardly helpful.
frankthurk
Member
It does if it means you can pray/train/fix your underage kid into not being gay.
I do that every morning right after brushing my teeth.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Exactly. Even a 21-year old movie knows better than this idiot:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Is "Fuck the gays" even a universal starter amongst moderate republicans? That seems like a hard position to back off of once you've gotten the base behind you.
I think he misses a point. Homosexual behavior can be a choice. But that doesn't mean homosexuality is a choice. And even if it was, so what? All that matters is how consenting adults feel towards each other.
So I have a question for gayGAF: I have a friend who identifies as a lesbian. She's been a lesbian as long as I've known her - since 2009. However, one very drunk night a while back she admitted to me that she would prefer to date men, but her whole life she's been ignored by them (she's very large and a bit hairy, but very feminine). I never questioned her about it later because I didn't think it was my place to dig into it. My question is: how common is this? For both gay females and males, how common is it for people who are ignored for physically superficial reasons to seek out the homosexual community for relief?
So I have a question for gayGAF: I have a friend who identifies as a lesbian. She's been a lesbian as long as I've known her - since 2009. However, one very drunk night a while back she admitted to me that she would prefer to date men, but her whole life she's been ignored by them (she's very large and a bit hairy, but very feminine). I never questioned her about it later because I didn't think it was my place to dig into it. My question is: how common is this? For both gay females and males, how common is it for people who are ignored for physically superficial reasons to seek out the homosexual community for relief?
She might be bi, with a preference for females even though she'd prefer having a straight relationship. Sexual attraction doesn't need to match romantic attraction, I've read plenty of cases like that. Or she could have been drunk
Is it offensive that our current scientific understanding points to the conclusion that sexual orientation is biological? I'm not sure why it should be. Also, there's no biological basis for liking jazz or the color blue AFAIK. It's not a great comparison.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Oh no, I doubt it. She's generally smart. She was going to nursing school, and yet...she was just ignorant. She also thought she could heal people by touching them. And she's Russian. So maybe she was just an idiot.
- Status