SliceSabre
Banned
I support Sanders but I do not think he actually has a ghost of a chance
Bernie Sanders = Ron Paul
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onadesertedisland
Member
There's a good possibility that Ron Paul actively courted racists as part of his base.
gutter_trash
Banned
the main reason why Ron Paul was unelectable was because he did not have significant support inside the Republican party, period.
The brunt of his supporters were not even Republican at all
I disagree with the idea that isolationist only refers to conflict and alliances. I think the term is now used that way to justify the shifting of our foreign policy from eschewing wars/alliances to justifING them. In truth, the US has never been isolationist. It just didn't want to bully Europe until the 1900s.
Well that doesn't really matter socialist is a "dirty" enough word in the U.S that it would stop people from voting for him.
Well unless he drastically changes the perception of the word socialist in the U.S in a year, then it doesn't matter he will lose horribly. He would almost certainly be running against an opponent who raised more money and specifically plays up the fears of socialism.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
"Most people will agree with him once they hear it!" is one of those rhetorical fallacies that supporters of whatever ideologue is running go with in every single election. Every poll ever tells us that people don't like socialists, and rationalizing it by saying "they probably do like socialists, they just don't know it!" isn't really an effective argument.
gutter_trash
Banned
okay okay okay okay, Paul is a non-interventionist... happy?
Boom. It is as simple as this.
If Sanders is doomed, then LET him be doomed. LET his supporters see him fail. Why should it bother you so much that they hope he succeeds?
People who support Sanders are not idiot college kids. They are progressives who had resigned to accepting Hillary, but secretly hoped Warren would run.
And supporting him has literally NO downside. Either he wins or he strengthens Hillary and/or pushes the base to the left.
Carnby
Member
Yes sirrr!
As long it comes with ice cream.
benjipwns
Banned
And then President Walker appoints two more Supreme Court justices making it a 7-2 conservative court.
Well if he wins the primaries, we are almost guaranteed a republican executive, legislative and judicial branch (judicial branch is especially important because it will last for the next few decades) which should terrify progressives.
AstroNut325
Member
I agree with this but the idea/concept of socialism has been heavily skewed and misunderstood by the general population in the US.
Future PhaZe
Member
he's got my vote for now
RustyNails
Member
yes YES YES
Scott32020
Member
Republicans, at least Bush, Walker, Paul, and Rubio, would have a better chance against him than Clinton.
If Bernie does win the nomination and overtakes Hillary Clinton's popularity; I don't see why he would lose to Scott Walker. Doesn't that make him the new #1.
I vote Green Party because I don't view Democrats as true progressives.
Counterpunch.org has trashed Bernie Sanders from the beginning.
gutter_trash
Banned
a large portion of GOP voters feel that Donald Trump represents them:
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/247383-trump-leads-gop-presidential-field-in-new-national-poll
AstroNut325
Member
You really underestimate the fear of left wing/socialist ideas in the USA. When it comes down to it, a lot more people would sign up for lower taxes over more safety net.
onadesertedisland
Member
I actively support division within the GOP and hope that the party splinters. It would be the best thing that could happen to the US.
Neither do I. Sanders is an independent.
The most 'political' move he has done thus far is identifying himself as a Democrat for the sake of running.
He is the most progressive I think a candidate can be in the mainstream and not be run out of town.
benjipwns
Banned
In the latest PPP, Clinton leads Walker 46-42. Walker leads Sanders 40-32.
Walker leads Clinton 44-38 among Independents. Leads Sanders 41-27.
I don't see that going well when Sanders is constantly referred to as a Socialist Democrat.
RustyNails
Member
America is not Europe. In America, Independent voters decide the elections. The independents tend to be slightly conservative overall, but it's a mix. Independents, and overall Americans in general would rather vote for a conservative or a liberal than a socialist.
ConsumerSquare
Member
You couldn't have at least gone with "Bernie Sanders = Ralph Nader?" Fucking young people and your limited frames of reference.
Remember back in 07 when gaf was all, "Black man can't win gud?"
Remember back in 07 when gaf was all, "Black man can't win gud?"
Hillary Clinton is an old, white out-of-touch neo-liberal who was born into privilege whose candidacy is based entirely on name-recognition and financial clout.
Hillary is the democrat's Mitt Romney except Hillary is facing the clown show GOP this time instead of Barack Obama. Even on social issues, Hillary was in opposition of Gay Marriage until it was no longer tenable to hold the position. Hillary also resigned from her cabinet position early.
Bernie Sanders stands no chance. It's sad, but once again there is no real progressive candidate in this election. Whoever has the most money will win the primary. No populist or non-Reagan-skewed Democratic candidate stands a chance these days.
I do see the similarities in the general fervor for Paul and Sanders, but that's what Internet grassroots campaigns create. These guys are underdogs. It's like beating your head against the wall. I don't see similarities in terms of policies.
Hillary is the democrat's Mitt Romney except Hillary is facing the clown show GOP this time instead of Barack Obama. Even on social issues, Hillary was in opposition of Gay Marriage until it was no longer tenable to hold the position. Hillary also resigned from her cabinet position early.
Bernie Sanders stands no chance. It's sad, but once again there is no real progressive candidate in this election. Whoever has the most money will win the primary. No populist or non-Reagan-skewed Democratic candidate stands a chance these days.
I do see the similarities in the general fervor for Paul and Sanders, but that's what Internet grassroots campaigns create. These guys are underdogs. It's like beating your head against the wall. I don't see similarities in terms of policies.
But she is going to win so vote for her.
Democrats can be left on issues such as abortion but ten to be centrist/corporatism on economics.
And to be clear, I do not think he has a chance in hell either, but I want to live in a world where he does.
I do not want to have to settle. Again.
I know. In fact, that statement describes most of the Democratic party to a disturbingly large degree.
I do not want to have to settle. Again.
I know. In fact, that statement describes most of the Democratic party to a disturbingly large degree.
benjipwns
Banned
Few Cabinet Secretaries stay for both terms, so I wouldn't hold that against her.
onadesertedisland
Member
Clinton is not a neoliberal. That term means something somewhat deceptively inverse. Neoliberal is a term I would apply to GW Bush and Cheney.
Right now ,yes. I don't think it's actually possible. I was only saying that, hypothetically, if by some miracle, Sanders was actually able to beat Hillary for the nomination -- he would beat Walker because I imagine he'd have to be so popular. I don't see him winning anything atm.
Edit: my punctuation is awful
Sadly people see lower taxes as something that benefits them.
benjipwns
Banned
Well, you could have Hillary supporters assume it's hers, stay home for the primaries and wait for the general, and Bernie supporters flood the primaries enough to win delegates.
This won't ever happen, but it is a possible way for him to win the primaries and still only have support of 35% of the electorate.
gutter_trash
Banned
Hillary was more to the left on Health Care than Obama.
Obama too was not for Same Sex Marriage initially, he changed his position overtime with "my position has evolved".
Yes, she is the establishment candidate, but there are positives for that too, especially when it entails with foreign policy
And_Gignac
Member
Latest yougov poll has Bernie doing similar numbers to Obama during June-July 2007 (in a multi candidates match, I dont remember just Obama vs. Hillary polls).
Hillary Clinton 43%
Bernie Sanders 25%
Joe Biden 12%
Jim Webb 4%
Lincoln Chafee 1%
Other 5%
No Preference 11%
Only Bernie vs Hillary
Hillary Clinton 51%
Bernie Sanders 32%
Not sure 7%
I would not vote 9%
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...g-Support-Across-Demographics?detail=facebook
He is catching up.
Of course this is only one poll, but I believe Sanders has a real chance, specially when the debates roll in.
Hillary Clinton 43%
Bernie Sanders 25%
Joe Biden 12%
Jim Webb 4%
Lincoln Chafee 1%
Other 5%
No Preference 11%
Only Bernie vs Hillary
Hillary Clinton 51%
Bernie Sanders 32%
Not sure 7%
I would not vote 9%
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...g-Support-Across-Demographics?detail=facebook
He is catching up.
Of course this is only one poll, but I believe Sanders has a real chance, specially when the debates roll in.
She really is.
A slimy politician who prioritizes getting into the White House more than actually having real positions on things.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I think a clear picture of how a general election match up would play out will only be available after a couple debates. Despite the current wildfire on the internet, a lot of people, especially independents, don't know who Bernie Sanders is. I'd imagine the same is even true for Scott Walker to some extent. I think by September-ish we'll have a better idea of where voters fall. I'm not saying that would necessarily change any candidates standing, but it's simply too early in the race for these polls to be taken seriously.
Slimy based on what?
It gets weird because liberalism is synonymous with the left. At least in the U.S.
Third Strike
Member
I thought they were considered neocons?
The only positive for me is that she doesn't seem to be someone like Ted Cruz or Donald Trump.
There is no way either should be considered as serious candidates.
It just annoys me that like others say Democratic candidates have shifted so far right. There are only degrees of shittiness to choose between. I welcome people to join debates to maybe shift the public discourse away from the right.
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