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Berserk |OT| - Big men, bigger swords, OFF THE BOAT - Berserk #344 24/6/2016
- Thread starter EvilKatarn
- Start date
The only way to faithfully adapt Berserk is to do it OVA style, 50 minute episodes each like Hellsing Ultimate. I would wait 1 year per OVA and then buy them emphatically.
Movie format is bound to have a lot of stuff skipped over due to the nature of being feature length movies. You can't have like 5 movies of 4 hours each just going over the Golden Age arc.
TV series format will probably not do the animation/art justice due to the restricted time and budget. Plus it's harder to get away with stuff if you are airing it on TV (and later Berserk stuff has a lot of stuff that would not be aired on TV).
Movie format is bound to have a lot of stuff skipped over due to the nature of being feature length movies. You can't have like 5 movies of 4 hours each just going over the Golden Age arc.
TV series format will probably not do the animation/art justice due to the restricted time and budget. Plus it's harder to get away with stuff if you are airing it on TV (and later Berserk stuff has a lot of stuff that would not be aired on TV).
True Savior
Member
I definitely agree OVA'S would be the glorious way do adapt it. Slowly , but hey Berserk isn't going anywhere.
There is 3 long arcs in the series , another that is going and then the Black Swordsman. So , at least 4 points to end. Then in the Conviction Arc there is also at least two very specific ending points.
But, why do they need to have definite conclusions ?
There is 3 long arcs in the series , another that is going and then the Black Swordsman. So , at least 4 points to end. Then in the Conviction Arc there is also at least two very specific ending points.
But, why do they need to have definite conclusions ?
Yup. As long as you don't have some exotic shipping location.
Totally legit. The only catch I guess is that their processing and shipping is slow compared to Amazon.
But it's a great site overall and they have by far the best packaging online for comics. My nicer orders of big hardcovers and whatnot used to always get beat up due to shitty barebones packaging from places like Amazon or Barnes & Noble. Now I only order that kinda thing from InStock since they surround books with padding, multiple boxes and packing peanuts. They don't fuck around in that regard and stuff always arrives unscathed.
metsallica
Member
Just waiting for that lone volume they didn't have in stock I ordered elsewhere, but the collection is officially complete. Wasn't too bad price-wise, and now that the band-aid is ripped off I can't wait to buy the new volumes as they release!
lol
The Omega Man
Member
Just waiting for that lone volume they didn't have in stock I ordered elsewhere, but the collection is officially complete. Wasn't too bad price-wise, and now that the band-aid is ripped off I can't wait to buy the new volumes as they release!
lol
Congratz! how much would you say you pay in total for the whole collection?
RadioHeadAche
Member
Yessssssssssssss
metsallica
Member
Right around $300. Not bad in my opinion, a paltry fee given the hours of enjoyment.
The Omega Man
Member
Those are fantastic prices, if you'd have gone through the regular viz pages or eBay you would have paid 500+ for the whole collection
True Savior
Member
What's the German translation for the Band ? Hawk or Falcon ?
Both translate to "Falke".
Freezasaurus
Member
vas_a_morir
Banned
The Golden Age arc is so captivating because we spend 4 volumes with Guts as this beat-up, mangled guy living in a horrid post-apocalyptic Hellscape full of demons... only to be transported to a time when Guts is a side-character in another man's story. A story where the handsome and clever hero Griffith always wins and the country where everyone wears white defeats the country where everyone wears black. In the end, they defeat the powerful General Boscone and end the war for the good-guys. Griffith has the love of a princess and his friends; and their status is secured. Just how things went so bad so quick, just as they were getting settled into their noble status... I guess they couldn't escape their fates. You never stopped to think... are Midland really the good guys, or are appearances and bias misleading? If you just watched the cartoon and didn't know the rest of the story you would think it was the most fucked up story ever, lol. As much as I like it, I'm with everyone else that they should have moved on. In their defense, the animation and writing in the movies get better with each one. I think fans of the manga/show should watch the movies at least once Just for the Eclipse, if nothing else.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
smh the anime is so much better then the CG monstrosity movies
The Omega Man
Member
Mind boggling that someone who reads the manga and has seen the movies and the anime puts the movie above the anime.
What's your reasoning for this?
Storywise is there that big of a difference between the two? Other than the prologue with the Count which I admit is a huge plus for the anime I can't recall there being any other differences. Maybe some scenes with Gambino? It's practically identical other than that and the movies some showing glimpses of Puck/Farnese/Serpico here and there.
So, then the only thing to focus on is the music and animation. And I feel the movies are superior in every single way in that aspect realtive to the TV show. I don't understand the complaints about the CG. I hate seeing CG being incorporated into traditional animation as much as the most ardent haters, but I felt the movies pulled it off exceptionally well. The anime by comparison is all janky and cheap looking (which makes sense) but what kills me is that often it has these scenes where they don't fully animate everything and cut to a still drawing such as this:
https://youtu.be/11hauEzyQC8?t=3m21s
That shit happens a ton.
And while the Forces is better than Aria, the movies' soundtrack overall is way better than anything else on the show.
The movies are missing an integral portion of Gutts' background story which is IMO its biggest fault. Throughout the movies it is shown that Gutts doesn't like to be touched (even as early as the first scene) but it's never explained in the movies. You would think the fever dream that Gutts has just a random nightmare and not his inner consciousness related to Gambino if you never read the manga or watched the anime.
Some other character building moments and subtleties are lost in the movies especially involving the supporting characters of the Band of the Hawks.
I do however agree that the anime has aged poorly in the technical department. So many stills shots and basically pages taken straight out of the manga and just colored. The budget was lacking in the anime even back in the day. That still doesn't excuse some of the awful CGI used in the movies... though it at least gets better as it goes along (terrible in first movie, less bad in 2nd and much better in 3rd).
Some other character building moments and subtleties are lost in the movies especially involving the supporting characters of the Band of the Hawks.
I do however agree that the anime has aged poorly in the technical department. So many stills shots and basically pages taken straight out of the manga and just colored. The budget was lacking in the anime even back in the day. That still doesn't excuse some of the awful CGI used in the movies... though it at least gets better as it goes along (terrible in first movie, less bad in 2nd and much better in 3rd).
vas_a_morir
Banned
I think it's not explained in either. Donovan doesn't even appear in the tv show.. He only shows up for a second in the movies, but I think some things don't need to be explained. It's clear Guts, Caska, and Griffith have all been sexually abused by older men. Griffith got compensated, but it was something he had to do.
Does not compute.
I hate the anime, but it is still better than those garbage movies.
SolarPowered
Member
Just saw the first movie on Netflix. Yeah, the CG is as bad as people say (maybe even worse). The movie felt like it was sprinting from scene to scene too. We never really got to take in their accomplishments and the character interactions between everyone besides Griffith and Guts were weak. I might have been more impressed had they at least used regular animation when there were less than ten people onscreen at once. The fight with Zodd would have been cool had that been the case. It was just two people at first, but they still stuck with the models.
Background building for Guts was the only thing as bad as the CG in this movie, though. We understood very little about why Guts handles big weapons or what makes him apprehensive about joining up with the Band of the Hawk in the first place. Yeah, he had that horrible experience with Donovan, but what happened with Gambino and the subsequent chase that nearly killed him probably played just as strong a part in his aversion to people and we got to learn none of that.
A 3/5 with some generosity applied. I went in expecting to hate it, but it could have been worse. The music was pretty good. It was almost on the level of Forces, Earth and Guts' anime theme.
Background building for Guts was the only thing as bad as the CG in this movie, though. We understood very little about why Guts handles big weapons or what makes him apprehensive about joining up with the Band of the Hawk in the first place. Yeah, he had that horrible experience with Donovan, but what happened with Gambino and the subsequent chase that nearly killed him probably played just as strong a part in his aversion to people and we got to learn none of that.
A 3/5 with some generosity applied. I went in expecting to hate it, but it could have been worse. The music was pretty good. It was almost on the level of Forces, Earth and Guts' anime theme.
True Savior
Member
You are being generous because you are filling in the blanks
I think i wrote this somewhere else , but Guts is depicted as a prick who follows the Band as a puppy because he lost to Griffith, He is stripped of any dignity.
He actually follows the Band in the raid (Griffith immediately sees his importance as a warrior) but he starts to get affectioned to them. After living such a lonely life , the camaraderie he encounters is extremely important to Guts . Him being accepted is a huge turn in his life , yet the movie skips that.
I buy the same! You don't even get other issues of berserk here anymore.
Berserk MAX is a really good deal, but yeah.. you just get to manga nr. 36 with Berserk MAX 18, because obviously, we need nr. 38 to come out, so they can bundle 37&38 in MAX nr.19. (And i hope they continue with MAX, otherwise the next mangas wont fit my collection at all...)
The Omega Man
Member
Don't forget they gave everyone in the Berserk movies a "kissy face" wtf.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
I get why Berserk is unfinished and will remain that way. It started in 1989. I have no hope of this manga ever ending.
WTF is Rei Hiroe's excuse for pulling the same shit with Black Lagoon?
WTF is Rei Hiroe's excuse for pulling the same shit with Black Lagoon?
EvilKatarn
Member
Yeah, I think the overall character designs are even more offensive than the CG.
Also holy shit, to see someone rank the movies above the anime is mind boggling.
The tv series got by with striking, stylized imagery in lieu of, like, actual animation. It was painfully underfunded.
Think I still prefer that over the janky cg integration, and I certainly disagree that the movies did them well.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Holy shit, the anime ending....
And the comic/films are more violent? Wow
The eclipse kind of smacks you in the face with such a drastic shift in tone after twenty-three episodes. I mean, it's a dark series, but not like that.
Not that I'm criticizing it. It worked wonderfully to covey the horror of the event.
I feel emotionally drained right now.
And the comic/films are more violent? Wow
The eclipse kind of smacks you in the face with such a drastic shift in tone after twenty-three episodes. I mean, it's a dark series, but not like that.
Not that I'm criticizing it. It worked wonderfully to covey the horror of the event.
I feel emotionally drained right now.
I don't remember, but does the manga ever actually explain the pagan religion? Why it's there? What its belief system is?
Right now it just seems to be anti-church for the sake of it. What we've seen of it so far mostly seems to be based on people's classical fears of foreign religions (like a lot of the fears people had/have about Christianity ironically).
The anime covers what is the least dark part of the manga -- the only part they could reasonably adapt for a TV series. And even that part has a bit more content in the manga that's even darker, one villain in particular. What you see during the eclipse (or the first two episodes) is more in line with the tone of much of the rest of the manga from there on out. There may be some parts where the story raises your spirits up, but only so it can break them down again.
Right now it just seems to be anti-church for the sake of it. What we've seen of it so far mostly seems to be based on people's classical fears of foreign religions (like a lot of the fears people had/have about Christianity ironically).
The anime covers what is the least dark part of the manga -- the only part they could reasonably adapt for a TV series. And even that part has a bit more content in the manga that's even darker, one villain in particular. What you see during the eclipse (or the first two episodes) is more in line with the tone of much of the rest of the manga from there on out. There may be some parts where the story raises your spirits up, but only so it can break them down again.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Question about golden age:
Griffith was likely in love with Guts, right? It seemed like that pretty early on, but I wasn't sure if I was reading too much into it. It would also explain his breakdown after Guts left, and his hatred upon their reunion in the dungeon. Not to mention what Femto does to Casca while never breaking eye contact with Guts, and his glaring at Guts and Casca whenever he saw them embracing. It just seemed like a grotesque act of spite.
Also, does it show Griffith's face when Guts removes the lock during his rescue in the manga, or was that meant to be left to the imagination? It was obviously shocking to Guts, and not just realizing they cut out his tongue. It just seemed odd that they would leave that mask on him otherwise.
Also, does it show Griffith's face when Guts removes the lock during his rescue in the manga, or was that meant to be left to the imagination? It was obviously shocking to Guts, and not just realizing they cut out his tongue. It just seemed odd that they would leave that mask on him otherwise.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I don't see it as love in that sense, Griffith originally wanted Guts to use him as yet another weapon to get what he wanted. He did fall in love, but in a familial sense or like brothers. Even Guts realises this, when he Griffith talks what it means to be his equal, to go after your own dreams. Guts loved Griffith as his brother and wanted to be his equal and Griffith too stopped seeing Guts as just another weapon. However he felt betrayed when Guts, unlike Casca, wouldn't dedicate himself to his cause.
When Guts left after he defeated Griffith, Griffith felt powerless and no longer in control. He allowed this guy to dominate his life to the point that he could no longer function without him. He gained a brother and lost a weapon, a weapon he relied on. When he left, he felt personally betrayed.
That's why he bedded Charlotte so quickly. That was his long term plan but Griffith acted out of panic, wanted to desperately regain control.
Griffith blames Guts for everything after that. For his arrest and suffering. For ruining his plans. He even blames Guts for taking Casca's heart. Guts took everything. His men, his army, his control and his kingdom. Griffith was so weak though, his rage couldn't even burn in his weakened state. That's why he wanted to kill himself. He could no longer be around Guts as he blamed him entirely for his downfall.
That's why when Femto is born, Griffith has the power to enact his revenge there and then and he does. He takes everything from Guts. His friends, his body, his love - even though he's already dammed for Sacrifice, Griffith needs Guts to suffer. And we know he did.
The face is never clearly shown.
True Savior
Member
I wrote this in other thread about Griffith
He's extremely complex and not an evil person , he's simply engulfed in the pursuit of his dream. He's able to suppress his own emotions in favor of his dream. But he actually shows guilt in his actions. He asks his most dear comrade if he thinks he is a bad person. Casca knows fully well he who he is behind the stoic figure he represents.
Guts is the only thing he ever come face to face that makes him rethink about his dream. He is the only one who shatters Griffith's own reality. When he defeats him , he breaks that one reality. The dream is over. The defeat is imminent. For the first time he felt inferior.
As for you second question , from the top of my head , i don't think it's ever showed. Grifith was an extremely beautiful man...i can imagine how brutal it must have looked to Guts.
EDIT : Well , Slightly Live already got you covered
I agree with almost everything he wrote.RadioHeadAche
Member
Egg of the King wasn't as terrible as I expected, but I think it pales in comparison to the anime, as far as adaptions are concerned. If I watched it before the anime, I don't think I would care about the characters as much. Of course, it covers a lot in a measly 76 minutes so there's no time to stop and develop.
The CGI was awful, especially in the beginning. Good lord....
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
I wrote this in other thread about Griffith
He's extremely complex and not an evil person , he's simply engulfed in the pursuit of his dream. He's able to suppress his own emotions in favor of his dream. But he actually shows guilt in his actions. He asks his most dear comrade if he thinks he is a bad person. Casca knows fully well he who he is behind the stoic figure he represents.
Guts is the only thing he ever come face to face that makes him rethink about his dream. He is the only one who shatters Griffith's own reality. When he defeats him , he breaks that one reality. The dream is over. The defeat is imminent. For the first time he felt inferior.
As for you second question , from the top of my head , i don't think it's ever showed. Grifith was an extremely beautiful man...i can imagine how brutal it must have looked to Guts.
EDIT : Well , Slightly Live already got you covered
Not evil? I've only seen up until The Golden Age arc, but going from that arc alone Griffith is a tragic character - but he's also without question an evil character. His fate was sealed that moment when he took the behelit. The trailer for the movies says it best - "Was it destiny? Or was it just a cruel twist of fate?!" I got the impression that deep down Griffith never truly cared for his comrades. They were merely stepping stones for him to climb rank and reach his dream. One could argue that
him sacrificing his friends to become a demon made sense because he had lost everything and was basically a vegetable. But to then rape Casca in front of Guts out of jealousy for revenge to show dominance?
True Savior
Member
I was talking about Griffith before the Occultation , Tricky I Shadow. He lives a life driven to one goal. But that doesn't mean he didn't cared for them. He saved Casca , he saved Guts , he saw young comrades of him die in battle and went to prostitute himself to feed them and give them more arms. They meant something for him.
It is actually necessary for him to be fond of them for the sacrifice , as stated to the Count. "The sacrificial offering to the ceremony is not just a mere lump of flesh and blood.It has to be very important and dear to your heart " It doesnt mean that he also didnt used them for his objective. That they were tools. But they meant something.
Without spoiling you anything , this is seen as a fragility by him , one which is brought up in a particular confrontation.
It is actually necessary for him to be fond of them for the sacrifice , as stated to the Count. "The sacrificial offering to the ceremony is not just a mere lump of flesh and blood.It has to be very important and dear to your heart " It doesnt mean that he also didnt used them for his objective. That they were tools. But they meant something.
Without spoiling you anything , this is seen as a fragility by him , one which is brought up in a particular confrontation.
Wiktor
Member
Being emphatic, having feelings etc doesn't make him not evil. It just makes him more complex and realistic evil villain. But he definitely is evil.