Why the long face, Guts?
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Berserk |OT| - Big men, bigger swords, OFF THE BOAT - Berserk #344 24/6/2016
- Thread starter EvilKatarn
- Start date
Why the long face, Guts?
Hmm this made me realize the difference between Void being fleshy while skull knight is all bone-y. I'm slow with this kind of stuff >.>
RadioHeadAche
Member
I hope Skull Knight is playable in musou.
I hope everyone who is buying Berserk for the first time is making sure to go to Instocktrades first!
CrazyDiamond
Member
I hope everyone who is buying Berserk for the first time is making sure to go to Instocktrades first!
Because he's worth it.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
So the rumour of it lasting 24 episodes was false? Honestly? After watching the first two episodes, I'm gonna file that under good news.
The sooner this new anime dissapears, the better. I wasn't expecting much, but so far it's a lot worse than my already low expectations.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Are there any events coming up where Tecmo-koei west may give us musou release info? Would they do news during comic con?
True Savior
Member
In the interview with the director at anime expo he mentioned they worked on 12 episodes hoping to do more in the future. Considering the pace it's natural that we will see 12 episodes ending with the Hill of Swords.
JadedWriter
Member
I wonder how many days Miura spends drawing his hair. I highly doubt he ever lets an assistant do it.I hope everyone who is buying Berserk for the first time is making sure to go to Instocktrades first!
Void really does have the best Godhand design along with Griffith. Slan's just rated X Morrigan...and I love her for it.
Tizoc
Member
Technically wouldn't Slann predate Morrigan? Darkstalkers 1 was released in 1994 :X
OK so here's a little something for you lot to ponder: Go to Vol. 34, after Femto fuses/does his magic whammy on Ganishka, fusing the fantasy world with the mortal realm, we then get a few pages that are God Hand-centric:
Slann is...asses...
Fat Baby whathisname is rats; pestilence and plague?
Midgety Ozzie Osborn: Surrealism (Dada-ism?)
Void is just his brain on a 2 page spread
So if Femto/Griffith got Falconia, what about them? What do these spread pages mean?
OK so here's a little something for you lot to ponder: Go to Vol. 34, after Femto fuses/does his magic whammy on Ganishka, fusing the fantasy world with the mortal realm, we then get a few pages that are God Hand-centric:
Slann is...asses...
Fat Baby whathisname is rats; pestilence and plague?
Midgety Ozzie Osborn: Surrealism (Dada-ism?)
Void is just his brain on a 2 page spread
So if Femto/Griffith got Falconia, what about them? What do these spread pages mean?
JadedWriter
Member
I was wondering who came first, makes sense Slann is first. I just call her that cause it's honestly just the easiest way to describe her for me.
We have been told the God Hand don't really interact much outside of creating apostles, etc. and when not doing that they kind of just descend into their own preferred plains of existence. Those images are most likely related to their preferred "worlds" based on what little we know about their personalities.
Its quite possible Slann was an influence for Morrigan from Dark Stalkers. Much the same as Guts and Griffith being inspirations for Cloud and Sepiroth from FF VII. Berserk has been influencing all sorts of products in Japan for a long time now.
JadedWriter
Member
Slann feels comfortable on the ass-tral plane...lol. I never put two and two together with Griffith being the inspiration for Sephiroth. I mean I can see it, Griffith is far prettier though. I could see Sephiroth hitting on Griffith and Griffith actually just allowing it. "No Casca don't stop him...I like the sound of his voice."
Berserk Volumes 1, 2 & 3
I'm sure much has been said about the first 2 chapters and I don't think I have any more to add, but I just want to express my admiration for certain things. More so than the gripping opening, the bitter but so satisfying writing, or the magnificence of Dragonslayer. What I loved most were Guts's facial expressions. They are wonderfully done, and are what really got me hooked on the manga. This is the first manga I ever read from the start (and hopefully catch up with the rest of you) as I am not a fan of comics in general. But the faces of Guts sold me completely. I don't think I have seen a drawn character who can express their feelings purely through facial expressions at this level. I find Miura to be a damn genius in this regard, owning to what I think is the modest and undecorated face of Guts. Miura knows exactly what his characters are feeling at any point in time, and lends him the sense to draw in a way that reveals their emotions at their very core. I gotta post some of my of favorite just from the first 2 chapters:
This also extend to when Miura often elects to remove all facial expressions at all by blacking-in Guts's face and only showing one eye or so. Usually in battle and they are some of my favorite shots of Guts, I am especially a fan of this one below, although it looks better in the actual volumes (a lot darker).
The paneling in the manga is also a big plus for me. I like Miura's style of dedicating several panels some times to reinforce a scene by doing close ups and providing a good flow and atmosphere in general. I still get lose in battles like with other manga I've tried but I'm starting to feel it's a problem from my side. I do wish more environments and surroundings were drawn out though.
The Guardians of Desire
This whole arc was just a pleasure to read through. I honestly didn't think we would get to see Griffith and the God Hand before the Golden Age even started. There were interviews with Miura where he said that Guts's past was never planned before the Golden Age and knowing that before going into this arc made it only more shocking when things started getting crazy towards the end. I thought it would be an extra showcase of Guts's personality or even an introduction to Farnese and the Holy Iron Chain Knights as I have seen them in the new anime. Evidently it wasn't so, and thinking back now, I find it really weird that Miura decided to start this arc on chapter 3, which as far as I know, is one of 3 chapters required to be submitted at the start of serialization and I don't think much happened in that chapter that would pique people's interests for the next one. I'm no manga expert at all (and I only got my information from Bakuman) but it's a weird decision I think. Anyway.
I think what I got most out of this chapter was this: Guts isn't the only rage-fueled and brutal psycho in this world. The whole thing is fucked up. This was one of the scenes where I think authors establish that people in their world die a lot, where only the strongest survive which fits straight into Guts's view of the world. I appreciate the way it is done here, where Miura doesn't neglect to show the regretful and teary face of the beheaded women, just to give an extra layer that other might neglect to cover. The Count crushing the heretic's beheaded-head was also quite telling of the world and his character, a bit sadistic I thought, knowing she was probably innocent of heretic-ism. Not that Guts is any better, using it to mark the Brand on it's forehead only to send it flying at the count to send a message. Nevertheless, I am sure Miura and many fans like that "declaration of war" by Guts but I found it a bit off-looking from the way it was drawn. Plus all that blood would start sliding down his neck and all...blah.
Moreover, I finally got to read the famous description of the Dragonslayer that I see everywhere except the flippin' old anime and movies so that was nice. Dragonslayer is just a pleasure to read/watch in general. I still fail to understand how that single chain link is supposed to support the entire thing on his back though.
Volume 2 was a fun read in general. I enjoyed the back and forth between Guts and Puck and I really like how these polar opposites can still remain together despite their differences. That is mostly coming from Puck's side, as Guts would not care in the slightest if Puck was there or not (for now at least). It makes me wonder what sort of past Puck has. How can such an innocent creature tolerate a self-loathing and spiteful character as Guts who might squash him the next time he speaks out of place? There must be a reason, and I'm interested to know why Puck keeps following Guts around. At least I hope there is, I'm not a big fan of side characters who just happen to join the protagonist on their journey out of no where and then end up no where at end, just as they started. However, I still remain a fan of Puck. I love his attitude and comical relief between the pages of intense story and gore and gives us more insight about Guts's emotions and conscience. Plus I really feel his observation about Guts being a master swordsman should be included somehow in the new Anime.
This volume is where the true form of Apostles really starts to breakthrough the pages and I love it. Their designs are crazy, weird and genuinely makes me shudder at times (especially when eyes get involved...ew, flashbacks to some gnarly stuff in FMA). I am a huge fan of the Souls series and knowing this was a big inspiration for those games, I look forward to more crazy demons in the future.
Now my favorite scene in this volume was definitely the execution of the 'Old Fella'. I cannot find a good translation of that page online, but in the DH translation it was wonderfully done. The exchange between Puck and Guts beforehand lent it self perfectly towards the climax of this scene. Puck's desperate please for help, met with Gut's ice-cold stare and appalled attitude of Guts who just seemed to give a hint of "this is what he deserves, I am okay with this" only to move into the moment of execution where the Old Fella' literally begs the Black Swordsman to avenge him. This scene really sent a chill down my spine. It brings forth something I dearly like about some of my favorite works which I think is well handled and epitomized in Berserk and that is the raw and unadulterated actions and emotions of characters. I usually just refer to them as "raw characters" as I have no clue about how to correctly describe them, I usually just try to use Guts and Griffith to make my point as they are perfect examples. Anyway, I really felt that scene. The look of desperation in his eyes, the knowledge that he ran out of time sinks in to him and knows that he has but few seconds left in this world, all he thinks about is calling out to this stranger who hurt and humiliated him just a few hours(?) ago and ask him to finish the deed.
It really hit all the right notes for me. The follow up with Guts was fantastic too from his internal struggle to the moment he tries to convince himself that he will Count with his flesh and blood because of his own vengeance and not the weak will of the Old Fella, after all, how can he have anything in common with such defeated and failed people.
The rest of the arc was full of crazy-ness and mind fuckery that I did not expect, and will not delve too much into it. It really showed me what Guts is capable off, what his berserk nature is really like, and how sadistic and hateful he can become. I read the rest of the arc knowing who Griffith and the God Hand are and it was more thrilling in it's own way. I'm not sure how people unfamiliar with these aspects felt about it but I would be very interested to know. I think it only added to the overall experience even if it was out of order in Miura's vision. Just looking at these panels where Guts is trying his darn hardest to even scratch Griffith and shouting his name as he reloads and fires his cannon while being dragged to hell is...thrilling.
Another favorite shot, one that actually got my friend to start reading the manga on it's own:
Finally, the ending was perfect. Pure perfection in my eyes. Not much to say besides so. I didn't touch on the incredible pacing in this arc and great setup from start to finish but it honestly speaks for itself. I also hope to read a full profiling on the character of Guts by the end of the series someday and I really can't wait to finish the Golden Age arc again to get back to the rest of the story before it is spoiled further by this new anime abomination.
And apologies for the long post, I just loved this arc that much.
I'm sure much has been said about the first 2 chapters and I don't think I have any more to add, but I just want to express my admiration for certain things. More so than the gripping opening, the bitter but so satisfying writing, or the magnificence of Dragonslayer. What I loved most were Guts's facial expressions. They are wonderfully done, and are what really got me hooked on the manga. This is the first manga I ever read from the start (and hopefully catch up with the rest of you) as I am not a fan of comics in general. But the faces of Guts sold me completely. I don't think I have seen a drawn character who can express their feelings purely through facial expressions at this level. I find Miura to be a damn genius in this regard, owning to what I think is the modest and undecorated face of Guts. Miura knows exactly what his characters are feeling at any point in time, and lends him the sense to draw in a way that reveals their emotions at their very core. I gotta post some of my of favorite just from the first 2 chapters:
This also extend to when Miura often elects to remove all facial expressions at all by blacking-in Guts's face and only showing one eye or so. Usually in battle and they are some of my favorite shots of Guts, I am especially a fan of this one below, although it looks better in the actual volumes (a lot darker).
The paneling in the manga is also a big plus for me. I like Miura's style of dedicating several panels some times to reinforce a scene by doing close ups and providing a good flow and atmosphere in general. I still get lose in battles like with other manga I've tried but I'm starting to feel it's a problem from my side. I do wish more environments and surroundings were drawn out though.
The Guardians of Desire
This whole arc was just a pleasure to read through. I honestly didn't think we would get to see Griffith and the God Hand before the Golden Age even started. There were interviews with Miura where he said that Guts's past was never planned before the Golden Age and knowing that before going into this arc made it only more shocking when things started getting crazy towards the end. I thought it would be an extra showcase of Guts's personality or even an introduction to Farnese and the Holy Iron Chain Knights as I have seen them in the new anime. Evidently it wasn't so, and thinking back now, I find it really weird that Miura decided to start this arc on chapter 3, which as far as I know, is one of 3 chapters required to be submitted at the start of serialization and I don't think much happened in that chapter that would pique people's interests for the next one. I'm no manga expert at all (and I only got my information from Bakuman
) but it's a weird decision I think. Anyway. I think what I got most out of this chapter was this: Guts isn't the only rage-fueled and brutal psycho in this world. The whole thing is fucked up. This was one of the scenes where I think authors establish that people in their world die a lot, where only the strongest survive which fits straight into Guts's view of the world. I appreciate the way it is done here, where Miura doesn't neglect to show the regretful and teary face of the beheaded women, just to give an extra layer that other might neglect to cover. The Count crushing the heretic's beheaded-head was also quite telling of the world and his character, a bit sadistic I thought, knowing she was probably innocent of heretic-ism. Not that Guts is any better, using it to mark the Brand on it's forehead only to send it flying at the count to send a message. Nevertheless, I am sure Miura and many fans like that "declaration of war" by Guts but I found it a bit off-looking from the way it was drawn. Plus all that blood would start sliding down his neck and all...blah.
Moreover, I finally got to read the famous description of the Dragonslayer that I see everywhere except the flippin' old anime and movies so that was nice. Dragonslayer is just a pleasure to read/watch in general. I still fail to understand how that single chain link is supposed to support the entire thing on his back though.
Volume 2 was a fun read in general. I enjoyed the back and forth between Guts and Puck and I really like how these polar opposites can still remain together despite their differences. That is mostly coming from Puck's side, as Guts would not care in the slightest if Puck was there or not (for now at least). It makes me wonder what sort of past Puck has. How can such an innocent creature tolerate a self-loathing and spiteful character as Guts who might squash him the next time he speaks out of place? There must be a reason, and I'm interested to know why Puck keeps following Guts around. At least I hope there is, I'm not a big fan of side characters who just happen to join the protagonist on their journey out of no where and then end up no where at end, just as they started. However, I still remain a fan of Puck. I love his attitude and comical relief between the pages of intense story and gore and gives us more insight about Guts's emotions and conscience. Plus I really feel his observation about Guts being a master swordsman should be included somehow in the new Anime.
This volume is where the true form of Apostles really starts to breakthrough the pages and I love it. Their designs are crazy, weird and genuinely makes me shudder at times (especially when eyes get involved...ew, flashbacks to some gnarly stuff in FMA). I am a huge fan of the Souls series and knowing this was a big inspiration for those games, I look forward to more crazy demons in the future.
Now my favorite scene in this volume was definitely the execution of the 'Old Fella'. I cannot find a good translation of that page online, but in the DH translation it was wonderfully done. The exchange between Puck and Guts beforehand lent it self perfectly towards the climax of this scene. Puck's desperate please for help, met with Gut's ice-cold stare and appalled attitude of Guts who just seemed to give a hint of "this is what he deserves, I am okay with this" only to move into the moment of execution where the Old Fella' literally begs the Black Swordsman to avenge him. This scene really sent a chill down my spine. It brings forth something I dearly like about some of my favorite works which I think is well handled and epitomized in Berserk and that is the raw and unadulterated actions and emotions of characters. I usually just refer to them as "raw characters" as I have no clue about how to correctly describe them, I usually just try to use Guts and Griffith to make my point as they are perfect examples. Anyway, I really felt that scene. The look of desperation in his eyes, the knowledge that he ran out of time sinks in to him and knows that he has but few seconds left in this world, all he thinks about is calling out to this stranger who hurt and humiliated him just a few hours(?) ago and ask him to finish the deed.
It really hit all the right notes for me. The follow up with Guts was fantastic too from his internal struggle to the moment he tries to convince himself that he will Count with his flesh and blood because of his own vengeance and not the weak will of the Old Fella, after all, how can he have anything in common with such defeated and failed people.
The rest of the arc was full of crazy-ness and mind fuckery that I did not expect, and will not delve too much into it. It really showed me what Guts is capable off, what his berserk nature is really like, and how sadistic and hateful he can become. I read the rest of the arc knowing who Griffith and the God Hand are and it was more thrilling in it's own way. I'm not sure how people unfamiliar with these aspects felt about it but I would be very interested to know. I think it only added to the overall experience even if it was out of order in Miura's vision. Just looking at these panels where Guts is trying his darn hardest to even scratch Griffith and shouting his name as he reloads and fires his cannon while being dragged to hell is...thrilling.
Another favorite shot, one that actually got my friend to start reading the manga on it's own:
Finally, the ending was perfect. Pure perfection in my eyes. Not much to say besides so. I didn't touch on the incredible pacing in this arc and great setup from start to finish but it honestly speaks for itself. I also hope to read a full profiling on the character of Guts by the end of the series someday and I really can't wait to finish the Golden Age arc again to get back to the rest of the story before it is spoiled further by this new anime abomination.
And apologies for the long post, I just loved this arc that much
.You shouldn't assume that "rule" applies to all series and all magazines, really.
Besides, the first two "episodes" of Berserk actually were published as short stories. The actual serialization began with the "Guardians of Desire" story.
Well that makes a lot more sense now; thanks for the clarification.
True Savior
Member
Nice post grudy. A blasphemy we're onto the third anime adaptation and Guardians of Desire keeps being skipped.
JadedWriter
Member
For some odd reason nobody wants to really adapt guts during his vengeful sadistic asshole phase. They just want to rush to him being "some what" normal. Granted I like Guts way more during the later chapters but you have to portray the journey to that for it to have meaning in my opinion.
True Savior
Member
It's a perfect action-oriented movie waiting to adapted. Can't really understand how Studio 4c thought it was a good idea to restart Berserk from the Golden Age with a movie format.
This whole thing has been kind of a mess. Its funny how those prototype scenes from like half a decade ago look better than what we're getting now.
JadedWriter
Member
It's a typical revenge tale, can't really even fuck it up...I mean you could, they're already fucking up the later chapters as we speak, but still. Assuming somebody competent decided to do it it'd be pretty easy to handle.
This still blows my mind. All they had to do was make a simple well drawn anime like Japan has been doing for the last 30 years. Doesn't even matter if its high quality animation or not. Everything else is right there, let the material speak for itself.
NOPE.
JadedWriter
Member
They over thought it or under thought it and turned it into a clusterfuck.
Splash Wave
Member
Are there super high-res scans/images of Berserk manga art to use as wallpaper out there?
EvilKatarn
Member
I think I'll start working on an updated OP for this thread when I feel like it.
Aside from adding info about where to buy the manga (instocktrades, bookdepository), the new anime and generally reworking the whole part about animated adaptations is there anything else you feel should be tossed in there?
Aside from adding info about where to buy the manga (instocktrades, bookdepository), the new anime and generally reworking the whole part about animated adaptations is there anything else you feel should be tossed in there?
JadedWriter
Member
I don't see why you have to add the existence of a new anime.
RadioHeadAche
Member
The musou game.
EvilKatarn
Member
Noted
I'm sure the current anime will clear things up a bit for you; just let me say that there is a reason why Guts behaves the way he does, and that there is more to his character than just being selfish
JadedWriter
Member
Are you only up to the first part where Guts is fucking a demon?
Is this new Berserk anime the only form of Berserk you've ever encountered? Because you are probably going to be VERY disappointed with that mindset. I suggest maybe finding the CGI movies or the original 90's anime.
After re reading almost all of Berserk again, I just want to say that Puck and Isidro need to not die man. I know Miura loves to kill off characters, but most of them, including most of the band of the hawk, didn't have as much story build up and face time as these two.
The story would be just too dark for me without these two clowns giving me knee slappers every once in a while. Their background antics in sole of the panels are just awesome. Also, even though they fool around, seeing them perform their own types of 'heroic' deeds really puts a smile on my face.
I'm really happy that these two guys are a team.
The story would be just too dark for me without these two clowns giving me knee slappers every once in a while. Their background antics in sole of the panels are just awesome. Also, even though they fool around, seeing them perform their own types of 'heroic' deeds really puts a smile on my face.
I'm really happy that these two guys are a team.
I love the hate the side characters get from certain parts of the internet. I got to some other forums and its just people hating on them and hoping they die a horrible death. Of course when confronted their arguments are usually pretty piss poor and it just seems like they wanted Guts to stay Edgelord Supreme from the end of the Golden Age.
I never disliked Puck, but I felt I appreciated him more reading over parts again. I also liked Isidro. Most people who hate him either do so for reasons similar to Puck or because they make poor arguments about 'shounen hero' or something.
Personally, I'd say it's Serpico who I probably care the least for in the group. I like him alright, but he still feels too much like an accessory for Farnese. He really needs something of his own to develop his character more separately.
Personally, I'd say it's Serpico who I probably care the least for in the group. I like him alright, but he still feels too much like an accessory for Farnese. He really needs something of his own to develop his character more separately.
JadedWriter
Member
But he is an accessory for Farnese since they're half siblings. Granted I will agree he needs his own thing since he can't really be in a weird incestuous thing with her since she's already taken. But given their history they're probably always going to be joined at the hip in some fashion.
Yeah. I know they're always going to be connected. He just needs something of his own. Farnese is an apprentice mage now which will help out when Caska goes back to normal since she'll lose her caretaker role. Schierke has her 'adapting to the world' and other stories. Isidro's got a pretty decent coming of age story going on. Serpico's story is still pretty much entirely tied to Farnese.
JadedWriter
Member
He accepted the world of magic, got over his rivalry with Guts and I guess needs to get over Roddrick being with Farnese, but other than that he does need his own thing. He's primarily just the opposite of Guts fighting wise. He's the lightning strategic bruiser to Guts' Here's my big ole sword, have fun not getting rekt by it.
CrazyDiamond
Member
I'm pretty fed up with the fans that keep complaining about how Berserk has gotten too light or isn't dark enough. Like fuck character progression I guess they just want to see some rando kill demons with a huge sword. Also the hate that Guts' new group get never makes sense to me especially when they are described as one dimensional. It's like these people only pay attention to the manga when there are action scenes and then black out the rest.
JadedWriter
Member
I think we schooled some fool about that in some other thread a couple of weeks ago. None of the characters are really all that one dimensional and in fact knowing people if Guts was just some dude constantly cleaving through shit they'd be complaining about that too. I like big bro Guts, dude has come a long ass way, the whole cast really has. I need to read the last two volumes at some point though. I still can't believe people think Farnese stayed the same or something, which is like blasphemy.
"Farnese is a bad character."
I think we schooled some fool about that in some other thread a couple of weeks ago. None of the characters are really all that one dimensional and in fact knowing people if Guts was just some dude constantly cleaving through shit they'd be complaining about that too. I like big bro Guts, dude has come a long ass way, the whole cast really has. I need to read the last two volumes at some point though. I still can't believe people think Farnese stayed the same or something, which is like blasphemy.
"Farnese is a bad character."
As I said a lot people just do a mostly surface level reading of Berserk and just think of it as cool actions scenes with slow boring non fighting stuff.
JadedWriter
Member
But my favorite parts are the character backstorys and everything else. Griffith wouldn't be the same if we never found out that he had sex with a man to keep people from dying. Guts wouldn't be the same if we never found out about his touch issues or all those discussions with his inner demon, or his rage regarding Casca. Serpico wouldn't be the same without finding out about his upbringing with Farnese. These characters are pretty much actual people with pasts that influenced them. How does a person just do a surface read of that? They're missing a lot of the fun in Berserk then.
I actually think most of the Hawks people love are pretty one dimensional.
JadedWriter
Member
People liked Corkus...fuck Corkus.
Pippin was the real deal of the Falcons, didn't talk much but said a whole lot more than most.