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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c

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G

GifGafIsTheBestGaf

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Chuck is a little shit that cannot stand anyone being equal to him. Everything that he has done to Jimmy is beyond unreasonable and beyond justifiable.

You seriously think that he keeps moving the goalpost whenever someone calls him on his bullshit because he's just smarter than everyone?

No. He does it because he thinks that being wrong is a statistical impossibility, and and that the other person is just stupid.

When he was defending himself to Kim, what does he do? He dumbs down his language and all but calls Kim mentally retarded for trusting Jimmy.

When Jimmy presents an actual, honest-to-God good job at work, in a meeting? Chuck literally stops the meeting twice to try to shit on his own fucking brother.

Whenever Hamilton does something on his own or doesn't do "the right thing"? Chuck handles him.

Let's not forget Chuck's genius line of thinking of using his brother's work to get back into his old firm, and then using every trick he can to get Jimmy fired.

And the EHS? I have no doubt that it is real, but it's also psychological. Chuck needs to be the victim. He needs others to see him as a victim.

Oh, and the cherry on top? He's pissed at his mom for loving Jimmy more than him, because how fucking dare his own parents not see that he's the King Shit and that his brother is lesser? And how dare his mother maybe say the wrong brothers name while she is under drugs?

Chuck is an asshole.

And if you don't think people like him actually exist in reality, oh boy, are you in for a treat.

EDIT: And just for the record, I completely understand where Chuck is coming from, what his mindset is. I just can't sympathize with that bullshit. Chuck needs to get diagnosed as he is exhibiting bipolar disorder up the ass.
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i wuv you breh.

this last episode what ballbreaker, god damn, i feel pissed. i love this show.
 
G

GavinGT

Banned
What if it turns out to actually be Chuck who tarnishes the McGill name beyond repair? He's the respected and well-known one, after all.
 
R

riotous

Banned
bill0527 said:
I'm not rooting for either Chuck or Jimmy. They are equally repugnant in their own special ways. Very interesting characters and great drama..but I gotta go with Shakespeare. Let's kill all the lawyers. And kill them tonight. Starting with Hamlin. I'm even starting to find Kim to be a turnoff as she plays both sides. 'Oh look at me...I do things the right way.' 'Oh I need my own separate office because i need to do things the right way and you do things the wrong way little Jimmy.' /puke. While helping Jimmy rip people off and cover up for him by keeping her mouth shut.

I think at this point I'm on team Nacho.
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Nacho is pretty rad; the getup he was in during that last scene was pretty hilarious lol. He went all out for the killing field.

And yeah I'm with you on Kim being multi-faceted and certainly not a purely good character; I love the little smoking scenes they show with her. She's a secretive cigarette addict, and it's one of the first character traits they portray of her (hiding her faults.)
 
S

Spectral Glider

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
I don't think so. What proof does he have that Chuck is a "fucking nutcase"? The EHS thing doesn't affect anyone except Chuck himself. The most he can do is get him involuntarily admitted to a medical ward on suspicion that he's a danger to others.
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Well, he has the Dr. who has wanted Chuck committed twice.
 
CharminUltra

CharminUltra

Member
NYR said:
Spoiler if you want to know who left the note on Mike's window - it's from the prodcuers, so it's legit, lol:

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2016/04/19/better-call-saul-creators-confirm-episode-title-hidden-message

http://www.indiewire.com/article/be...ng-bad-connection-gustavo-fring-back-20160412

Pic spoiler: https://mobile.twitter.com/sirena6783/status/714581526696964096
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
Werd said:
The sniper scene was the first time I felt BB knowledge really hurt a scene. A guy we know survives is aiming at three guys we know survive, a sort of ally and a random fodder guy. Shooting the fodder guy first would only expose his position.

The note just wasn't a particularly satisfying way to get out of it.
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I agree to a point, but then my immediate assumption was that Mike was responsible for Hector's paralysis. There was still some tension there I thought, and I loved it when Mike's plan was disrupted - as someone else said earlier, it's the first time in the series we've seen him not in control.
 
Robot Pants

Robot Pants

Member
Triggerhappytel said:
I agree to a point, but then my immediate assumption was that Mike was responsible for Hector's paralysis. There was still some tension there I thought, and I loved it when Mike's plan was disrupted - as someone else said earlier, it's the first time in the series we've seen him not in control.
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Yea I'm pretty sure the suspense was meant for hector and how he ends up in the wheelchair. Didn't really hurt the suspense at all for me. I thought that was gonna be the reason
 
R

riotous

Banned
Robot Pants said:
Yea I'm pretty sure the suspense was meant for hector and how he ends up in the wheelchair. Didn't really hurt the suspense at all for me. I thought that was gonna be the reason
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Same; kept asking my wife if we had any knowledge of how he ends up in a wheel chair.

Considering his condition in BB a bullet wouldn't make much sense though.
 
A

ATOMICJORGE

Member
I just watched the season 2 finale on Netflix wow what a cliff hanger ending, to be honest episode 9 was better in my opinion, also that note I'm pretty sure that it was left by Gus or Gus people think about it the other side of the border (USA) it's his territory it something happens to Hector Salamanca there then it's his fault and a war with the Cartel would start
so to avoid that situation he spied Mike with his agents and stopped him in the last moment

Also that Hospital scene was brutal,7 months ago I had an appendix stage 3 and infection surgery and that scene reminded me to that situation

I can't wait to see the next season but come on can someone tell me please why do we have to wait 1 whole year? :(

Anyway amazing show just like Breaking Bad was
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
riotous said:
Same; kept asking my wife if we had any knowledge of how he ends up in a wheel chair.

Considering his condition in BB a bullet wouldn't make much sense though.
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Why not? A bullet through the top of the spine could paralyse him, and maybe cause a major stroke which removes most of his mental faculties. I mean, I'm no doctor, but I'm just making assumptions here.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
I just realized the obvious.

When we see Hector in BB, he's an invalid in a wheelchair that shits himself regularly and cannot speak.

In BCS, he's walking around and yelling.

BCS is set in 2002, and s2 would be 2003. That's only five years before BB. That's not enough time for old age to do its work.

Something fucking happens to Hector. I'm betting it's Mike deciding no half measures.

Also, I just learned that Jimmy's middle name is Morgan.

Vince Gilligan named Saul after his old X-Files writing buddy.
 
S

Sadsic

Member
i doubt s2 is a whole year after the beginning of s1 of better call saul. the first 50 episodes of breaking bad are over a year, and that's going up into season 5. i get the feeling that it's been maybe 6-9 months since the first episode of better call saul in-universe
 
A

Alpende

Member
Watched it yesterday and thought it was a decent finale. A bit slow for my liking but it had some great moments. I liked the way Jimmy's commercial played and after his ended a commercial for 'Weasel' started, fun stuff. Also, the sound design in Mike's scene was outstanding. The moment the crickets stopped chirping was great, you felt he was vulnerable and he was because someone was onto him.

Chuck going for the long con was cool too, wonder how that's gonna play out,
 
Moff

Moff

Member
NYR said:
Spoiler if you want to know who left the note on Mike's window - it's from the prodcuers, so it's legit, lol:

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2016/04/19/better-call-saul-creators-confirm-episode-title-hidden-message

http://www.indiewire.com/article/be...ng-bad-connection-gustavo-fring-back-20160412

Pic spoiler: https://mobile.twitter.com/sirena6783/status/714581526696964096
Click to expand...

that's great news
I absolutely loved espositos performance in breaking bad. the moment where he admits/reveals to walt that he really is the druglord he thought is still my favourite BB scene
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Sadsic said:
i doubt s2 is a whole year after the beginning of s1 of better call saul. the first 50 episodes of breaking bad are over a year, and that's going up into season 5. i get the feeling that it's been maybe 6-9 months since the first episode of better call saul in-universe
Click to expand...

How long was Jimmy at David & Main?
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Einchy said:
Even he knows Chuck is a piece of shit.
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It's interesting to see how, despite being right about all the facts, Chuck can't get anyone on his side. Because he's just so damn unlikable, whereas Jimmy is likeable and charismatic as hell.

Bombasador said:
Followed by the worst most "sitcomy" moment, "I miss the mailroom."

Who the hell would audibly say that? Came off cheesy and forced, IMO
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I mutter things like that all the time. I don't see the problem.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Morrigan Stark said:
It's interesting to see how, despite being right about all the facts, Chuck can't get anyone on his side. Because he's just so damn unlikable, whereas Jimmy is likeable and charismatic as hell.
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Which, in a metatextual twist, is the actual thing frustrating Chuck. It's one of his central conflicts, that people let Jimmy get away with murder just because he's likable, and he's constantly trying to point out how bullshit that excuse is.
 
J

JoeNut

Member
I thought mike going back to the car was really dumb, anyone would have figured that was a trap and avoided it.

Gimme Jimmy
 
S

Servbot24

Banned
blame space said:
you guys should definitely watch breaking bad again. I just finished my third rewatch and it was still so so good.
Click to expand...

Just finished this as well. It's crazy to think that in the end we may have up to 10 seasons of BB related episodes. So far there have been no true weak links.
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
I just realized the obvious.

When we see Hector in BB, he's an invalid in a wheelchair that shits himself regularly and cannot speak.

In BCS, he's walking around and yelling.

BCS is set in 2002, and s2 would be 2003. That's only five years before BB. That's not enough time for old age to do its work.

Something fucking happens to Hector. I'm betting it's Mike deciding no half measures.

Also, I just learned that Jimmy's middle name is Morgan.

Vince Gilligan named Saul after his old X-Files writing buddy.
Click to expand...
I think he was taking some pills, when Mike was peeping on him freaking out about the missing cash.
My money is on a stroke, either natural, or induced.
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
Spectral Glider said:
Well, he has the Dr. who has wanted Chuck committed twice.
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Exactly, and she can testify that Jimmy is doing all he can to protect his brother and keep him out of any kind of healthcare systems while she has recommended professional help a number of times.

I don't think the tape is going to turn out to be a particularly big deal.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
Veelk said:
Which, in a metatextual twist, is the actual thing frustrating Chuck. It's one of his central conflicts, that people let Jimmy get away with murder just because he's likable, and he's constantly trying to point out how bullshit that excuse is.
Click to expand...

I'm actually reminded of the ending of The Social Network, when Zuckerberg's lawyers decide to settle out of court on the basis that even if Mark's assessment could eventually be argued in his favor, a jury would have been highly unsympathetic towards him.

At the end of the day, being correct or having the moral high ground doesn't excuse one from being a completely unlikable asshole. In the absence of evidence this is what completely undoes Chuck. That said I don't think anyone would just blindly let Jimmy walk away with anything. Kim is the only one other than Chuck who knows what he's done but the only reason she doesn't do anything about it is because she knows he can do so much better. She clearly wants to be to Jimmy what Chuck has failed on all accounts to be - someone to depend on.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
NotLiquid said:
I'm actually reminded of the ending of The Social Network, when Zuckerberg's lawyers decide to settle out of court on the basis that even if Mark's assessment could eventually be argued in his favor, a jury would have been highly unsympathetic towards him.

At the end of the day, being correct or having the moral high ground doesn't excuse one from being a completely unlikable asshole. In the absence of evidence this is what completely undoes Chuck. That said I don't think anyone would just blindly let Jimmy walk away with anything. Kim is the only one other than Chuck who knows what he's done but the only reason she doesn't do anything about it is because she knows he can do so much better. She clearly wants to be to Jimmy what Chuck has failed on all accounts to be - someone to depend on.
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Well, I say get away with murder as a catchy turn of phrase.

Jimmy has a flair for presentation. I don't know whether it's because he's charming so he can make any situation sound good or that he makes any situation sound good is what makes him charming. But if you say it in sheer literal terms: "Jimmy committed a crime" then there's no getting away with it. But Jimmy wouldn't say that. He'd frame it as helping his associate and friend, making a tiny alteration to the documents, one that is almost meaningless, and easy to fix, with no great loss done to anyone.

A good example is actually the opening scene of the show. That's Jimmy working his hardest to present the situation in as best a light as possible. Everything Jimmy says is perfectly true, but he skirts around addressing what the 3 boys actually did. They were in the thralls of youth, having a good time, something they won't do again, and it was a victimless crime wherein no body got hurt. It's a very convincing defense all things considered. As a counter, the prosecuter says absolutely nothing and simply shows the jury the court tape. There is no attention paid to presentation, neither condemnation or scorn: The prosecutor just shows it like it is: The boys had sex with a head. And just like that, Jimmy lost.

So when I say that Jimmy gets away with murder, it's not that people wouldn't hold him accountable if they had the stark truth of what he does. But he paints everything in the best possible light when he absolutely has to tell the truth, and most of the time, it works. Back when he was working for Davis and Main, Chuck immediately spotted that Jimmy solicited his clients, which he did. But Jimmy worded his explanation in such a way that it was innocent. But if Chuck had evidence of the stark truth, davis and main would be far less satisfied. That may be the biggest contrast with the two brothers. Jimmy tries to distort reality to make it fit his version as much as he wants, but Chuck's skills as a lawyer revolve around citing factual evidence in support of his case. The closest he came to distortion is his rhetorical false assurances that Kim has everything covered to Mesa Verde which itself is designed around layering the amount of factual issues that Kim would have to contend with to serve them, and then he then immediately defaults to simply presenting more factual evidence ("Kim is just one person, we as a firm can handle your needs better).

That said, I think Chuck exasperates this effect. While people like Jimmy, that rarely clouds their vision of him to the extent that his likability is the only reason he can do anything. In his betrayal speech, he cites his likability as the only real reason that Jimmy can be a lawyer, when Jimmy actually worked quite hard doing real (if occasionally unorthodox) detective/lawyer work. The reason the Sandpiper case exists isn't because Jimmy slicked anyone, it's because he noticed a deficiency in the numbers while working a smaller case, found a legal loophole in which to obtain the documents he needed, then reconstructed them (with chuck's help), making a damn federal case. That is authentic lawyer work that chuck tries to ignore. Meanwhile, people actually do like Chuck. He's highly respected and revered. Howard treats him right and defers to him when he is uncertain. Jimmy worships the guy, and takes care of him out of a genuine love even despite all that happened to him. Even Ernie doesn't seem to have an issue with Chuck until he goes ballistic with his crusade. He had a wife that was genuinely fond of him. His issue is less that he is unloved (by the characters within the show anyway. Some people in this thread would mount his head on a pike in front of his burning house.) and more that he feels unloved.

The scene with his mother dying is specially key. There is absolutely no reason to believe that either parent favored Jimmy. That his mom said Jimmy twice before immediately dying could have happened for literally any reason at all. It doesn't mean she loved Jimmy more. That Chuck interprets it that way regardless is more of a statement on his psychology than direct evidence of his parents regard.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
Yeah, that opening pretty much confirmed to me that Chuck hasn't harbored any love for his brother for a long time and is pretty much using Jimmy.

I'm on the Fuck Chuck bandwagon now.
 
T

TheLetdown

Member
blame space said:
people say stuff like that all the time. that said, I didn't hear him say that.

I love the composition of some of these shots, the cinematography is bold.. sometimes to the point of being extreme, but I love every second of it. too many good shots to even remember.
Click to expand...

Hell yeah.

When Chuck is looking down into the box in his garage, you get the view from the bottom of the box. A callback to the shot when the popsicle truck driver crosses the border, goes into the desert and opens a buried box to pull out a gun.

The recorder being Chuck's gun, following the parallel could hint at the fact that taping Jimmy, while meant as an act of prevention and protection, will end up as his downfall. Or dead in a fresh-dug desert grave, as it seems.

I need to watch Breaking Bad again, because I'm fairly sure that shot was used in there. Maybe with Walter White looking down into one of those infamous barrels?

EDIT:
Deaf Spacker said:
What was written on the note that Mike found in his car?
Click to expand...

I believe it was all caps: DON'T
 
T

TheRagnCajun

Member
Jimmy isn't getting disbarred. In BB he is practicing law in the same state, same appearance but under a different name. Something happens to warrant him changing his name but not his complete identity.
 
D

Diablos

Member
I will never understand why Jimmy cares so much about a man who basically regards him as a loser. That he had to spill his guts like that is just absurd. He's a fool for thinking Chuck let his guard down. SMH, Jimmy. He's not perfect but Chuck on the other hand is such a small and petty man. Not to mention, he's literally insane.

I don't think he'll get disbarred given his role in Breaking Bad, but he's in for some serious shit. I bet he loses Kim over this and maybe she'll take a bullet for him, whether she wanted to or not.
 
T

TheLetdown

Member
Diablos said:
I will never understand why Jimmy cares so much about a man who basically regards him as a loser. That he had to spill his guts like that is just absurd. He's a fool for thinking Chuck let his guard down. SMH, Jimmy.

I don't think he'll get disbarred given his role in Breaking Bad, but he's in for some serious shit. I bet he loses Kim over this and maybe she'll take a bullet for him, whether she wanted to or not.
Click to expand...

As the Replacements song goes, "The ones who love us best are the ones we'll lay to rest and visit their graves on holidays, at best. The ones who love us least are the ones we'll die to please."

It's just how the world works, sometimes. It rings very true to me, from personal experience.
 
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