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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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Chuck doesn't strike me as the type of person who would let that slip by himself.
JimmySlippers
Member
Just watched the finale. That was great.
Permanently A
Junior Member
When Hector dropped in on the diner you could see Mike was visibly unsettled for the first time. But yeah that was a great scene.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Wow. What a finale.
I saw that recorder reveal coming from a mile away, but the execution was flawless.
Chuck you SOB. He stooped to Jimmy's level but it shows that hes more of a monster than Jimmy.
Slippin Chuck lol
I saw that recorder reveal coming from a mile away, but the execution was flawless.
Chuck you SOB. He stooped to Jimmy's level but it shows that hes more of a monster than Jimmy.
Slippin Chuck lol
i have my money on Victor
Yup - me too. Which is weird because I know that (BB Spoiler)
Mike doesn't die here (Thanks Walt!)
I think the reveal of the recording device fell a bit flat for me narratively because I'm not typically very good at predicting things like this so if I can imagine nearly everybofy here did as well. If something is predictable to that degree, I think it typically works better to just show it up front rather than fizzling it out as a reveal. I don't think that scene would have had any less punch to it if we saw the recorded from the jump, or at least if we didn't have it revealed in such a dramatic way visually.
CharminUltra
Member
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
My favorite part of this thread is DEFINITELY the part where y'all are arguing over 100% intentional character ambiguities.
Are Hector and Mike ever in a scene together on BB?
I saw that fuckin' cliffhanger coming from the start of the episode...
Jimmy is a fuckin' idiot because he still thinks his brother is a better person than him!
Goddammit, he fell for it! The oldest trick in the book!
That warning to
is clearly from
Jimmy is a fuckin' idiot because he still thinks his brother is a better person than him!
Goddammit, he fell for it! The oldest trick in the book!
But Chuck setted it up sooo goooood...
That warning to
Mike
Gustavo Fring. Who else has a personal vendetta against Hector and wants to savor that man's pain and suffering? HE DOES!
Triggerhappytel
Member
Just watched it. Fucking amazing. Chuck, you bastard. You beautiful, horrible bastard.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I'm not sure his confession is particularly solid evidence anyway - Jimmy starts the conversation outright denying it was him, and then only changes his story when he realises it's the only way to stop his brother from retiring due to self pity. It could easily be construed that Jimmy did not do it but was only claiming he had to take the blame and prevent his brother (who is not of sound mind) from giving up his only passion in life.
Chuck was coming off of an electro-freakout, Jimmy maybe didn't figured Chuck had it in him to have a recorder around.
Doesn't seem like a huge thing tho. "I was trying to talk my insane brother down from a total mental collapse" feels like a fair defense. Kim already knows Jimmy did it, and I don't see this being serious evidence in court. So what's the stakes?
I thought Jimmy was in on it while he was still sitting. Things like "you were right all the way to the tiniest detail" definitely could play as sarcasm, like "I was just trying to sycophant him back into confidence". But the whole Kim aside was a little more personal.
Missed this earlier. Really interesting post.
I just finished watching the finale and it was great. I doubt that whoever left the note had anything to do with Gus since Mike hasn't done anything that would draw his attention. I've really enjoyed the build of the last couple of episodes so I'm really excited for the next season.
RobotVM
Member
Unless he is watching Hector and has a plan that Mike was going to interfer with by killing him.
How can you be on Team Chuck after that cold open. What a collosal asshole.
Jimmy might be unethical, but given how Chuck treats him and the reasons he did what he did (for love) that was a Hell of a lot more redeemable than the shit Chuck does to him in return.
Daffy Duck
Member
Masterful.
This season has been amazing and that finale was top notch.
I guessed what was going down mid confession, but that was low.
Still I can see Jimmy being able to get out of it by saying he said to make Chuck stop the downward spiral, maybe the temporary guardianship will come into play.
Ultimately you can see Chuck making him stop practicing with the McGill name and hence why he becomes Saul.
I cannot wait to see how it all unfolds in future seasons. Just gutted I have to wait for a year to see more of this.
This season has been amazing and that finale was top notch.
I guessed what was going down mid confession, but that was low.
Still I can see Jimmy being able to get out of it by saying he said to make Chuck stop the downward spiral, maybe the temporary guardianship will come into play.
Ultimately you can see Chuck making him stop practicing with the McGill name and hence why he becomes Saul.
I cannot wait to see how it all unfolds in future seasons. Just gutted I have to wait for a year to see more of this.
It's Gus for sure. No way would they intentionally put FRINGSBACK in the episode titles to not have him come back. "Don't" is exactly the kind of note Gus would put.
Mike was probably being watched much the same way he was watching the cartel. From BB we know that Gus is playing the long game when it comes to Hector and the Cartel, and having some random guy shoot him would make taking down the Cartel a LOT harder.
Yeah I hope the recording doesn't come with real consequences; the fact that Jimmy practices law under another name all but rules out any legal action being taken against him.
I think either:
- Chuck will use it as a bargaining chip against Jimmy to get him to not practice law under the McGill name
- Chuck will fail at using the evidence against Jimmy, but it will be the final straw in their relationship and possibly cause Mesa Verde to jump ship and forget everyone involved including Kim and HHM
If Jimmy not only gets in trouble for a felony, but that felony is related to a legal case. wouldn't Saul Goodman never be able to exist?
I think either:
- Chuck will use it as a bargaining chip against Jimmy to get him to not practice law under the McGill name
- Chuck will fail at using the evidence against Jimmy, but it will be the final straw in their relationship and possibly cause Mesa Verde to jump ship and forget everyone involved including Kim and HHM
If Jimmy not only gets in trouble for a felony, but that felony is related to a legal case. wouldn't Saul Goodman never be able to exist?
Yeah, I highly doubt it'll get Jimmy disbarred. I like the post above that says that, since Jimmy knows so much about Elder law, he'll be able to find some loophole that will make Chuck's evidence unusable. In the process the "McGill" name will be completely ruined, hence why Jimmy begins to go by a different one.
forgeforsaken
Member
Yeah, Jimmy basically has to win that case if it comes to that since you can't simply operate under a pseudonym to avoid disbarment. Jimmy v. Chuck may be where he really dives into illegal tactics in order to win, and he then needs to distance himself from the McGill name for one reason or another.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah that's what I would say in Jimmy's place anyway, hah.
SporeCrawler
Member
I dont think chuck will use it to press charges but he will blackmail jimmy and maybe show the recording to kim..
TimeEffect
Member
Yeah. Im really bothered with this too. Mike is going out of his way to ruin things for himself. If Salamanca left him alone, then move on.
At first I thought this may be more personal-- he asks why the cops werent called and why the truck wasnt in the news.
It would make sense if the cops were crooked and Mike was taking things personally because of what happened to his son.
But this isnt the case either as Salamanca simply got there before they did. I dont understand the motivation to go up against such a dangerous person
I think trying to kill Hector would draw Gus's attention. It wouldn't surprise me if Gus always had eyes on Hector considering in Breaking Bad, he was somehow always one step ahead of Walt. Actually,
his obsession with Hector was his downfall.
He threatened his granddaughter.
If there is one thing we know about Mike is that you can push any one of his buttons, but you stay the fuck away from that kid.
Been thinking about Jimmy and how he "changes" into Saul Goodman.
In every cold open of each respective season it doesn't seem like Jimmy is openly acknowledging a part of him that that currently seems to be the focus - i.e back when everyone knew him as Jimmy and when he seemed to have much more "potential" ahead of him. It's only ever being "Saul" that he looks back fondly upon and this is in spite of the fact that as of present the show is heavily indulging in the idea of Jimmy the "good kid" from Cicero that everyone seemingly likes.
For someone who so easily turns to petty tricks it's somewhat baffling to think of someone like Jimmy being so loyal and enthusiastic to a fault. It's like a complete opposite to how Walter was shown as someone who pretty much had an ideal happy family, yet had a superiority complex be a subsequent drive, hidden behind a veneer of deniability. Jimmy on the other hand, wants to prove he's genuinely better than what everyone instantly assumes of him. Kim believes in him even though she knows his habits and Ernesto believes in him too despite having been caught into the crossfire. It's easy to see how Jimmy has shown so much will to instantly fall back on a bad choice he's made because of what has fueled him ever since the start, which is guilt. Ever since Chuck had saved him from getting thrown into jail he's shown such a level of humility not just to him but everyone around him. He accepted the Kettleman bribe and while Slippin' Jimmy would have run away with it, he instead gives it back because it's the right thing to do (and to get Kim out of a jam in a situation he, incidentally, had nothing to do with). He goes under the nose of his employers to make a commercial but decides to quit after he realizes it's not just better for him but better for his employers (to quote his last line to Cliff, "for what it's worth I think you're a good guy"). He forges the case documents against his brother as payback but immediately feels remorse for it and admits it only to get Chuck back on his knees.
Chuck has described Jimmy as a "chimp with a machine gun" but I don't think that's wholly accurate - I think Jimmy is closer to just being a kid. Jimmy is stuck in the mindset of a child, in the way that he's still not sure what path is the right one for him and that he makes erroneous missteps in the lack of proper guidance - and much of that is down to a misplaced sense of loyalty because he's never had any of that guidance. He's simultaneously smarter and more naive than people will assume, kind of how a kid generally responds. That said Jimmy seems like he's never had a reliable vector as far as loyalty goes - least of all his family. His dad was a loser and his brother seemed to undermine him at every turn. Kim is the closest thing he has right now and I'm genuinely curious how the show is going to handle her because she seems like the biggest x-factor as far as the show's current direction goes.
Right now I think all the signs are pointing to Jimmy not abandoning "McGill" because it's better for business (something he initially mentioned in Breaking Bad; he's clearly getting a decent level of clients at present), or because something's gonna get used against him. While I think his way of working is going to get sped up by the process of involving himself with crooks, the denouncement of McGill seems to be built up as a final nail in the coffin of associating himself with a family of proud, petty losers who never trusted his talents or believed in him. I think the turn to Saul is not so much a change meant for business or marketability's sake, it seems like a choice fueled entirely by a conscious choice to absolve the meaning of restraint and guilt. To him it's becoming increasingly clear that a "McGill" is clearly someone you can't trust - but Saul Goodman is going to pride himself on giving everything he can and never looking back on his actions.
In every cold open of each respective season it doesn't seem like Jimmy is openly acknowledging a part of him that that currently seems to be the focus - i.e back when everyone knew him as Jimmy and when he seemed to have much more "potential" ahead of him. It's only ever being "Saul" that he looks back fondly upon and this is in spite of the fact that as of present the show is heavily indulging in the idea of Jimmy the "good kid" from Cicero that everyone seemingly likes.
For someone who so easily turns to petty tricks it's somewhat baffling to think of someone like Jimmy being so loyal and enthusiastic to a fault. It's like a complete opposite to how Walter was shown as someone who pretty much had an ideal happy family, yet had a superiority complex be a subsequent drive, hidden behind a veneer of deniability. Jimmy on the other hand, wants to prove he's genuinely better than what everyone instantly assumes of him. Kim believes in him even though she knows his habits and Ernesto believes in him too despite having been caught into the crossfire. It's easy to see how Jimmy has shown so much will to instantly fall back on a bad choice he's made because of what has fueled him ever since the start, which is guilt. Ever since Chuck had saved him from getting thrown into jail he's shown such a level of humility not just to him but everyone around him. He accepted the Kettleman bribe and while Slippin' Jimmy would have run away with it, he instead gives it back because it's the right thing to do (and to get Kim out of a jam in a situation he, incidentally, had nothing to do with). He goes under the nose of his employers to make a commercial but decides to quit after he realizes it's not just better for him but better for his employers (to quote his last line to Cliff, "for what it's worth I think you're a good guy"). He forges the case documents against his brother as payback but immediately feels remorse for it and admits it only to get Chuck back on his knees.
Chuck has described Jimmy as a "chimp with a machine gun" but I don't think that's wholly accurate - I think Jimmy is closer to just being a kid. Jimmy is stuck in the mindset of a child, in the way that he's still not sure what path is the right one for him and that he makes erroneous missteps in the lack of proper guidance - and much of that is down to a misplaced sense of loyalty because he's never had any of that guidance. He's simultaneously smarter and more naive than people will assume, kind of how a kid generally responds. That said Jimmy seems like he's never had a reliable vector as far as loyalty goes - least of all his family. His dad was a loser and his brother seemed to undermine him at every turn. Kim is the closest thing he has right now and I'm genuinely curious how the show is going to handle her because she seems like the biggest x-factor as far as the show's current direction goes.
Right now I think all the signs are pointing to Jimmy not abandoning "McGill" because it's better for business (something he initially mentioned in Breaking Bad; he's clearly getting a decent level of clients at present), or because something's gonna get used against him. While I think his way of working is going to get sped up by the process of involving himself with crooks, the denouncement of McGill seems to be built up as a final nail in the coffin of associating himself with a family of proud, petty losers who never trusted his talents or believed in him. I think the turn to Saul is not so much a change meant for business or marketability's sake, it seems like a choice fueled entirely by a conscious choice to absolve the meaning of restraint and guilt. To him it's becoming increasingly clear that a "McGill" is clearly someone you can't trust - but Saul Goodman is going to pride himself on giving everything he can and never looking back on his actions.
brickarts295
Member
Cant wait for Chuck v Jimmy: Dawn of Saul next season. Is not going to be pretty, just hope the queen makes it out alright.
Kim already knows he did it.
Fantastic episode but it fell slightly below season 1's finale for me which is one of my favourite season finales of all time. Also why does every keep calling the end of the episode a cliffhanger? There no mystery involved, Its obvious this is the beginnings of his full transformation into Saul and what fucks his relationship with Kim. My stomach actually dropped when he walked out of the room. Everything goes downhill here.
Its hard to wait a year for this masterpiece. Tops breaking bad for me.
Its hard to wait a year for this masterpiece. Tops breaking bad for me.
Cornballer
Member
- Vox: Better Call Saul's creators on a great season 2: "So much of television now is rushed storytelling"
Some worthwhile discussion of slowing down scenes and seasons at the beginning, too.
Yeah I definitely think there will be a bit of a legal battle; and as previously mentioned the medical incident / temporary legal guardian stuff will very likely come into play.
Didn't even think about how Jimmy is particularly well versed in those matters; handling wills and estates you often run into situations where the right "decision maker" is a huge legal grey area.
Yeah she knows; I think what would be worse is Mesa Verde getting wind of the accusation. They might very likely wash their hands of the matter and go elsewhere with their business even with a vague accusation, I could also see Kim having trouble lying if Mesa Verde were to ask her about what Jimmy did.
What an ending to the season.
Haven't read through the whole thread (as I was playing catchup on episodes until a couple of weeks ago), but it's interesting that people are so invested in one side or the other of the Jimmy/Chuck relationship.
Jimmy is so likeable, but it's hard not to take issue with his methods. Meanwhile, Chuck is often so right (and understands Jimmy better than anyone else), but it's so hard to sympathize with him because it's so often unclear whether doing what's right is what drives him or just his latent dislike for his brother... and placing more blame on him than he deserves.
I wonder if at any point the show will make clear that he's got some sort of anxiety disorder that he projects as his "electrical sensitivity" or if they'll leave it an open question. I guess there are more flashbacks to come on that front (for example, how did his relationship break down?). Also wonder how much longer the show has. It feels like the right length might be a maximum of two more seasons.
I think Kim is the grounding in the law side of the story. She get Chuck, and she gets Jimmy, too... but unfortunately she's still too close to his orbit and it seems like she's on course to crash and burn through that association sooner or later.
I think Mike is the type of guy who would rather get taken out by Salamanca than have a threat to his family - even an apparently elapsed one - hanging over his head... and I think there's an element of payback for killing a guy. He's been roughed up and shot in these first couple of seasons and it hasn't seemed to especially bother him
Haven't read through the whole thread (as I was playing catchup on episodes until a couple of weeks ago), but it's interesting that people are so invested in one side or the other of the Jimmy/Chuck relationship.
Jimmy is so likeable, but it's hard not to take issue with his methods. Meanwhile, Chuck is often so right (and understands Jimmy better than anyone else), but it's so hard to sympathize with him because it's so often unclear whether doing what's right is what drives him or just his latent dislike for his brother... and placing more blame on him than he deserves.
I wonder if at any point the show will make clear that he's got some sort of anxiety disorder that he projects as his "electrical sensitivity" or if they'll leave it an open question. I guess there are more flashbacks to come on that front (for example, how did his relationship break down?). Also wonder how much longer the show has. It feels like the right length might be a maximum of two more seasons.
I think Kim is the grounding in the law side of the story. She get Chuck, and she gets Jimmy, too... but unfortunately she's still too close to his orbit and it seems like she's on course to crash and burn through that association sooner or later.
I think Mike is the type of guy who would rather get taken out by Salamanca than have a threat to his family - even an apparently elapsed one - hanging over his head... and I think there's an element of payback for killing a guy. He's been roughed up and shot in these first couple of seasons and it hasn't seemed to especially bother him
TimeEffect
Member
I know, but it looked like Salamanca dropped him after that.
The mentality makes no sense to me. And Nacho said it too-- Salamanca forgot all about him.
Him having a kid is reason enough to stop pursuing this
SporeCrawler
Member
She does but chuck doesnt know she knows.
Yeah it is interesting; a lot of people really desire to "root for" someone when watching media. I see it a lot when people review movies; "everyone is an asshole, they didn't provide anyone to root for." Some of my favorite films get that criticism and it's never bothered me.
And I think the show creators enjoy playing with these characters; making the likable person less ethical than the unlikable person for instance.
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