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[Rabbi_Vole]

Except for that whole lying about their Mother's dying words, but you know...maybe he forgot?

Chuck blames Jimmy for the death of their father.. He holds plenty of resentment, but still bailed out his bro countless times, got him a job in the mailroom, etc.

Chuck isn't perfect, is a total wet blanket, but def has the high ground.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

I love slow burn shows so this is precisely my cup of tea. If you want quick cuts look elsewhere.

I hear Quantico is a thing.

 

[inm8num2]

Better Call Saul: The Origins of Squat Cobbler

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Morally, Chuck has been pretty sound. He doesn't owe Jimmy anything. He knows from a lifetime of experience how far he can safely stick his neck out for his brother and is only trying to impart this knowledge on others who might be pulled in by Jimmy.

Morally Chuck is a piece of shit. He detests his brother's profession because he didn't go to law school like the rest of them, he lied about the death of their mother out of petty jealousy that she asked for Jimmy instead of him, and he won't allow Jimmy to work at HHM because he's ashamed of him and thinks he's ruining the McGill family name.

Jimmy is an idiot, a con artist and makes lots of mistakes, but he loves and idolises his brother, while in return Chuck openly loathes Jimmy.

 

[CharminUltra]

Better Call Saul: The Origins of Squat Cobbler

One of the funniest podcast moments this season.

I rate it 10/10 pollos.

 

[Izuna]

I really wished they wouldn't (finale spoilers)

Spoiler

do a recording trap

. Saw it from a mile away, it's the dumbest, DUMBEST solution ever and it ended abruptly. It wasn't satisfying at all.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

Morally Chuck is a piece of shit. He detests his brother's profession because he didn't go to law school like the rest of them, he lied about the death of their mother out of petty jealousy that she asked for Jimmy instead of him, and he won't allow Jimmy to work at HHM because he's ashamed of him and thinks he's ruining the McGill family name.

Jimmy is an idiot, a con artist and makes lots of mistakes, but he loves and idolises his brother, while in return Chuck openly loathes Jimmy.

He detests his brother's profession because he didn't go to law school like the rest of them

Disagree. Jimmy has always taken the shortest path and expects to reap the same rewards and be treated as a peer by people who have dedicated their lives to, in this case, the law. He went to "Devry" while everyone else graduated "MIT" and he just expects the same respect and and "out the gate" opportunities.

he lied about the death of their mother out of petty jealousy that she asked for Jimmy instead of him

Disagree. This goes beyond jealousy.. He resents Jimmy and firmly feels he doesn't deserve to know. Chuck already stated he blamed the death of his father on Jimmy and just before her death, mentions how his mother and everyone in the fam were always cleaning up after him at the expense of their own happiness.

he won't allow Jimmy to work at HHM because he's ashamed of him and thinks he's ruining the McGill family name.

Disagree. Chuck knows Jimmy will cut corners and threaten both the McGill name and the integrity of HHM. He's absolutely right.

 

[sprsk]

Chuck has been an insufferable know-it-all all his life, it's pretty clear now. It's obvious why their parents liked Jimmy more, because despite Jimmy's scheming, he has a good heart. This is obvious to anyone really, except Chuck. I mean, I don't think they said why his wife left him, but I'm sure you can guess why.

He thinks his achievements make him better and more deserving of love and respect, but anyone who isn't Chuck knows that's bullshit. His "allergy" is probably a manifestation of his extreme jealousy. He want's to take everything from Jimmy, even pity.

Dude is a classic super villain, and really just a brilliant character all around.

 

[Bigfoot]

I really wished they wouldn't (finale spoilers)

Spoiler

do a recording trap

. Saw it from a mile away, it's the dumbest, DUMBEST solution ever and it ended abruptly. It wasn't satisfying at all.

What's so dumb about it? It's what lots of people would do in real life. Also of course it ended abruptly... it's a season finale and they want to keep us talking. Just look at Walking Dead.

 

[SeanC]

What's so dumb about it? It's what lots of people would do in real life. Also of course it ended abruptly... it's a season finale and they want to keep us talking. Just look at Walking Dead.

Only Saul handles cliffhangers far better because it actually earns them and doesn't screw around with its audience.

Great finale. Great season, though a little slow on the uptake when put up against season 1.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Disagree. Jimmy has always taken the shortest path and expects to reap the same rewards and be treated as a peer by people who have dedicated their lives to, in this case, the law. He went to "Devry" while everyone else graduated "MIT" and he just expects the same respect and and "out the gate" opportunities.

Disagree. He went to community college to finish his credits and then a correspondence school, yes, but did it while he was working and it took years. And he passed the bar exam, there was no short cutting that. His hope was to work for HHM upstairs and get out of the mailroom. And Chuck told Howard not to hire Jimmy. In that time, Jimmy took care of Chuck when he had his breakdown while working as a public defender. He stands up to Howard when he feels HHM hasn't been giving Chuck what he was worth. Jimmy gets the Sandpiper case and brings it to Chuck in which they work on it together at first. Chuck then brings it to HHM and once again tells Howard not to hire Jimmy for the case. Chuck also sides with Howard in telling Jimmy he shouldn't practice law as James M McGill because it may cause confusion with HHM. There was nothing "out of the gate" about any of that.

 

[chadderbox77]

Morally Chuck is a piece of shit. He detests his brother's profession because he didn't go to law school like the rest of them, he lied about the death of their mother out of petty jealousy that she asked for Jimmy instead of him, and he won't allow Jimmy to work at HHM because he's ashamed of him and thinks he's ruining the McGill family name.

Jimmy is an idiot, a con artist and makes lots of mistakes, but he loves and idolises his brother, while in return Chuck openly loathes Jimmy.

Not true at all. He doesn't detest him, he loves him in his own way. He just wants him to grow up and do things the right way, and he's sick of Jimmy always sliding through life by the seat of his pants. Like he has his whole life. Of course he has resentment. Hecantkeepgettingawaywithit.gif.

 

[chadderbox77]

He detests his brother's profession because he didn't go to law school like the rest of them

Disagree. Jimmy has always taken the shortest path and expects to reap the same rewards and be treated as a peer by people who have dedicated their lives to, in this case, the law. He went to "Devry" while everyone else graduated "MIT" and he just expects the same respect and and "out the gate" opportunities.

he lied about the death of their mother out of petty jealousy that she asked for Jimmy instead of him

Disagree. This goes beyond jealousy.. He resents Jimmy and firmly feels he doesn't deserve to know. Chuck already stated he blamed the death of his father on Jimmy and just before her death, mentions how his mother and everyone in the fam were always cleaning up after him at the expense of their own happiness.

he won't allow Jimmy to work at HHM because he's ashamed of him and thinks he's ruining the McGill family name.

Disagree. Chuck knows Jimmy will cut corners and threaten both the McGill name and the integrity of HHM. He's absolutely right.

This guy gets it. I find it odd how some people see Chuck as this total evil villain. He has been putting up with Jimmy's shit his whole life. And on the flip side, Jimmy has been dealing with Chuck's too. It's really great how they made these characters.

 

[br3wnor]

Fantastic season, one of the best shows on TV for me right now. Love the slow burn, love the characters, love everything about it. I've never gotten to experience an expansion of a universe that I loved (BB) and have it be essentially the same quality show. Very different show, but just as enjoyable.

 

[lamaroo]

Chuck is such a great character.

Spoiler

FuckChucktho

 

[lazybones18]

Was banned throughout the entire season, but I'll say that the season was great.

 

[RecRoulette]

Not true at all. He doesn't detest him, he loves him in his own way. He just wants him to grow up and do things the right way, and he's sick of Jimmy always sliding through life by the seat of his pants. Like he has his whole life. Of course he has resentment. Hecantkeepgettingawaywithit.gif.

Yeah, back when he said "I would've done the same for you" it feels like he truly meant it. (Before he found out Jimmy sabotaged him).

I also think people are simplifying that moment where he lies to Jimmy about their mother not saying anything. Grief is a hell of a thing, especially when it's about a parent. Saw my dad and his two brothers basically stop talking to each other after my grandfather passed away. Just was a messy situation all the way around.

Personally, I consider Chuck lying to Jimmy as him trying to protect Jimmy. Imagine if Chuck said "She called out for you." That would have just messed up Jimmy even more because he left to get food, thinking nothing was going to happen.

 

[-griffy-]

What's so dumb about it? It's what lots of people would do in real life. Also of course it ended abruptly... it's a season finale and they want to keep us talking. Just look at Walking Dead.

If this was Walking Dead the episode would have ended with a POV shot under the aluminum foil, then Chuck pulling the aluminum foil away and looking straight at the camera and then cut to black, not revealing what was under it.

 

[Consumer]

It was obvious Chuck was recording him, but I can understand Jimmy's ignorance given that Chuck's never been inclined to get him in trouble -- quite the opposite actually. Still, it's all Jimmy's fault for being too nice/respectful to his spiteful brother.

*the insane lengths that he's going to to prove Jimmy sabotaged him

Nope. If he was merely trying to prove it was Jimmy's fault, he wouldn't have said that last line "You realize that's a felony?". He's gonna use it to get him in legal trouble, or to blackmail him (My guess is he'll threaten legal action unless Jimmy confesses), because Chuck's a spiteful cunt.

Anyhow, I'm curious to see how Saul gets out of this one. Also, who do we think left that car note for Mike? Any chance it was Fring?

 

[Veelk]

Nope. If he was merely trying to prove it was Jimmy's fault, he wouldn't have said that last line "You realize that's a felony?". He's gonna use it to get him in legal trouble, or to blackmail him (My guess is he'll threaten legal action unless Jimmy confesses), because Chuck's a spiteful cunt.

Well, no shit he's going to use it against him. What, did you think he was only trying to prove Jimmy sabotaged him so he could let him go unpunished? That Chuck can only want proof that Jimmy sabotaged him just to assure himself that he didn't make a mistake and have no consequences for jimmy?

It blows my mind some of the mental gymnastics people go through. Jimmy committed a crime that directly impacts him and the only possible motivation Chuck can have for wanting to see him face court justice - which, in case anyone actually forgot, is what is actually supposed to happen when people commit crimes - is spite? Which isn't to say spite isn't part of his motivation, because of course it is, but why would that mean that Chuck isn't entitled to fair treatment? Why can't he be spiteful AND want justice (and even deserve it!) for the wrong he and his client have suffered at the hands of his brother?

I mean, just to be clear, and correct me if I'm misreading the situation is that you're trying to mount the argument that Chuck's desire for justice cannot be genuine because he is upset that his brother sabotaged him, because otherwise he would allow Jimmy to defraud his clients and damage his reputation without consequence? Like, imagine that this happened to someone else. "Sure, your best friend stole and crashed your car is now lying about it to you, but you're clearly angry at him for it and when you get proof he did it, you're going to sue him over it, so you're obviously not looking for real justice here, you're just a spiteful cunt." Does that not sound insane to anyone else?

Edit: Also, "You realize that's a felony" is meaningless in the legal sense. It's not like if Chuck showed that tape without that line, people would go "Well, he didn't know what he was doing, so it's cool". Ignorance of the law is not adequate excuse for breaking of a law, and I think that applies universally in the court system. Besides, Jimmy is a lawyer. What kind of lawyer doesn't know what felonies are? So I think the felony line was just saying "So you are fully cognizant of what you just admitted?" as a personal line, like "you realize you done fucked up now, right?"

 

[PantherLotus]

Chuck can be legally correct and even morally correct and still be an asshole. You do actually know that, right Veelk?

 

[rekameohs]

You know, I think Chuck is a fantastic character and he's very well-written, but I hate him. Just my thoughts.

 

[blame space]

it's almost as if we're finding the line that separates where we personally split from a major character and the moral ideals of the direction, and that's the whole point and the crux of the show.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Chuck's the type of dude who would tell your girl your entire sexual history while you were in the bathroom at the bar, then smile in your face when she acts moody when you come back.

Yeah, he's right. But he's still a jerk.

 

[Veelk]

Chuck can be legally correct and even morally correct and still be an asshole. You do actually know that, right Veelk?

I don't believe I ever argued otherwise. But that's not the argument he was putting forth.

Look, here's what I'm getting at: People are villainizing Chuck way beyond the parameters of what the show presents out of hatred for him.

You can't make incorrect statements like "No, chuck isn't out to prove Jimmy committed a crime and believe he is liable to recieve punishment for it, he's just being spiteful" and then run behind the excuse "Look, sure, he might be morally/legally right, but he's still an asshole" when it's pointed out that that isn't what happened in the show.

This same thing happened the characters of breaking bad. People get so entrenched in defending or attacking character out of personal taste that they literally warp what the show gives us to better fit their skewed perspective. Every action Chuck takes has people reframing it as fully malicious. No, he can't care about losing a huge client, he is only out to screw mesa verde out of Jimmy. No, he can't have a legitimate grievance for Jimmy's action, he's just being spiteful. People can't even let him have a humanistic moment of sorrow, because daring to be deeply affected by his mother's dying words is pathetic, apparently.

And I'm not defending this because I find chuck likable, but because you have this fantastic, complex character, and people do everything they can to simplify him to just 'an asshole'. It's depressing and the antithesis of what makes this show as good as it is. If chuck really was just an asshole, Better Call Saul would not be a good show. By all means, hate Chuck, I don't care about that. But don't let your hatred affect your judgement to the point you aren't capable of coming to rational conclusions. Bolded for emphasis.

 

[Veelk]

It don't care if it's deliberate or not. It feels like slow for slow's sake and I think the show could be shorter and not suffer in quality. 50% is an exaggeration on the whole, but certainly many scenes could be half as long and overall probably 15-20% could easily be cut out.

Scenes drag for minutes after the last drop of emotion or insight or character development was already wrung out.

For example, the segment with Kim calling everyone she knew to find client leads was about 4 times as long as it needed to be. The flashback of Jimmy's dad getting scammed was also much longer than it needed to be. The

Spoiler

mom dying

scene also felt overly long as I was watching it.

If I had any skill or software for editing I would do a couple scenes to show what I'm talking about. If someone else does it I'll be sure to post it here so people can judge for themselves!

Edit: nvm, I'm not gonna win with you people. I hope S3 has a 9 minute one shot take of jimmy eating a bowl of ice cream start to finish. It'll be the best thing that's ever been put on film.

Hey, so I was bored, so I decided to take you up on your offer.

This is the most amateur effort you can find, it's literally the first video I ever edited. However, I cut and compressed one well regarded scene into something much shorter.

https://youtu.be/A1QZ262tmCk

I prefer the long version

 

[blame space]

no offense but so do I. a lot.

interesting edit though

 

[Veelk]

no offense but so do I. a lot.

interesting edit though

I don't know why you think I of all people would take offense at that lol

I just wanted to try it as a point of experimentation, to try to take the notion that it could be done faster at face value and if there is any merit.

If someone can make a better edit, by all means, it'd serve as a better example.

 

[blame space]

I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but there's a reason those scenes weren't cut shorter. and it's because they are fucking fantastic.

but I truly don't mind your video in the same way I don't mind the previously or next time ons..

 

[Veelk]

I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but there's a reason those scenes weren't cut shorter. and it's because they are fucking fantastic.

but I truly don't mind your video in the same way I don't mind the previously or next time ons..

And I totally agree with you.

You can see the cerebral connections being made as a character comes to some realization or makes a decision. It allows for some really powerful acting.

Again, this video wasn't made because I agree with pj, but because I was willing to entertain him with a potentially shorter BSC scene and see where that went.

 

[RoadHazard]

Finished it. And well, that ending "twist" you could see coming from miles away. Just so obvious what Chuck was doing. But maybe it wasn't supposed to be a shocking revelation, don't know.

Either way, still love this show! The mix of light-hearted goofiness and more serious BB stuff is great.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

They showed Chuck early on going to the garage to get the tape recorder though I think they might've obscured it a bit.

I was always under the impression that Hector's condition was the result of a stroke. Weird speculation... If anything the stress over the pressure and everything else that's possibly going to happen during BCS triggered it not from something Mike or anyone directly does to him.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

*the insane lengths that he's going to to prove Jimmy sabotaged him

Not really. Chuck doesn't see a difference between made up bullshit and actual bullshit. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

 

[mxgt]

I don't believe I ever argued otherwise. But that's not the argument he was putting forth.

Look, here's what I'm getting at: People are villainizing Chuck way beyond the parameters of what the show presents out of hatred for him.

You can't make incorrect statements like "No, chuck isn't out to prove Jimmy committed a crime and believe he is liable to recieve punishment for it, he's just being spiteful" and then run behind the excuse "Look, sure, he might be morally/legally right, but he's still an asshole" when it's pointed out that that isn't what happened in the show.

This same thing happened the characters of breaking bad. People get so entrenched in defending or attacking character out of personal taste that they literally warp what the show gives us to better fit their skewed perspective. Every action Chuck takes has people reframing it as fully malicious. No, he can't care about losing a huge client, he is only out to screw mesa verde out of Jimmy. No, he can't have a legitimate grievance for Jimmy's action, he's just being spiteful. People can't even let him have a humanistic moment of sorrow, because daring to be deeply affected by his mother's dying words is pathetic, apparently.

And I'm not defending this because I find chuck likable, but because you have this fantastic, complex character, and people do everything they can to simplify him to just 'an asshole'. It's depressing and the antithesis of what makes this show as good as it is. If chuck really was just an asshole, Better Call Saul would not be a good show. By all means, hate Chuck, I don't care about that. But don't let your hatred affect your judgement to the point you aren't capable of coming to rational conclusions. Bolded for emphasis.

Completely agree with you. It's eerily similar to how some people posted about Skyler in BB on here.

 

[Veelk]

Not really. Chuck doesn't see a difference between made up bullshit and actual bullshit. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

What is the made up bullshit you're referring to? Chuck has an uncanny ability to know exactly when and where Jimmy did wrong. Jimmy himself points out how eerie it is, it's like its his superpower. The only instance that even has a possibility of being wrong that I can recall is his dad's money issues, and I stress possibility, because I feel it's more than probable that Jimmy contributed atleast a chunk to that deficiency. Otherwise, he may paint things in a worse light than they are (for example, he looks at Jimmy convincing Kim to go off on her own as manipulative and malicious), but he's rarely ever wrong about the content of what he does (Jimmy is, in fact, the one who solicited Kim into the idea of leaving HHM).

Chuck may always assume the worst, but in two seasons, he has yet call Jimmy out on something he didn't do even once, so I don't think it's a fair assumption to make that Chuck would just find an imaginary excuse to go after Jimmy. It's also worth mentioning that while Chuck has caught many of Jimmy's bullshit excuses, he's never actually gone after him the way he's done until he hurt him personally, so it might not have happened if Jimmy didn't decide to lordosis him.

Completely agree with you. It's eerily similar to how some people posted about Skyler in BB on here.

Skyler was probably the biggest victim of it, but they did a similar thing to Walt and Jesse and Hank. Not even necessarily in the negative either. There was a lot of heavy reinterpretation on many of Walt's actions to make him look like a good guy, the last one before the show ended is one the show actually used itself, with him measuring the ricen to give to Brock, even though that's a lousy estimate at best without having Brock's medical records on hand.

I don't know what it is about Gilligan shows, but they bring out the rationalization and ideological entrenchment in people like nothing else I've seen. I mean, it happens on other shows, but rarely to the degree it happens here.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Morally Chuck is a piece of shit. He detests his brother's profession because he didn't go to law school like the rest of them, he lied about the death of their mother out of petty jealousy that she asked for Jimmy instead of him, and he won't allow Jimmy to work at HHM because he's ashamed of him and thinks he's ruining the McGill family name.

Jimmy is an idiot, a con artist and makes lots of mistakes, but he loves and idolises his brother, while in return Chuck openly loathes Jimmy.

The show is great precisely because it's NOT this black and white. There's elements of truth to what you say, but the characters feel 'realistic' and the storylines are satisfying because it's not clear cut that Chuck is a villain and Jimmy has a heart of goal. Everyone has reasons for what they do in this show.

I really wished they wouldn't (finale spoilers)

Spoiler

do a recording trap

. Saw it from a mile away, it's the dumbest, DUMBEST solution ever and it ended abruptly. It wasn't satisfying at all.

Frankly I loved the cliffhanger. Maybe I'm just slow, but I genuinely didn't see it coming. It was a real "OH SHIT" moment. And I especially loved it because I realised in an instant that this meant another season of the show. I haven't been following the filming/production/gossip so I actually thought they were going to wrap up the whole show in the last episode - show Jimmy driving off into the sunset to become Saul. I'm so, so glad they didn't.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

What is the made up bullshit you're referring to?

I'm saying that Chuck is so far up his own ass that it doesn't matter what Jimmy (or anyone else or that matter) does. It's always going to be wrong.

And please do not try to lump people in here with a bunch of MRAs that hated a fictional woman because she got in the way of her husband's meth business.

 

[Veelk]

I'm saying that Chuck is so far up his own ass that it doesn't matter what Jimmy does.

Look, I get you have this hate boner for chuck, but seriously, this shit is exactly what I'm talking about when I say people let their views distort what is actually present in the show.

Chuck has had his head up his own ass pretty much all his life regarding Jimmy. And yet, it's only now, when Jimmy specifically sabotaged him, that he went to insane lengths he went to to prove, yes, Jimmy is actually a fraud. And never once have we gotten a factual instance of Chuck accusing Jimmy of something he flat out didn't do.

How do you justify your statement when, as a matter of pure fact, the show depicts the opposite of what your saying.

And please do not try to lump people in here with a bunch of MRAs that hated a fictional woman because she got in the way of her husband's meth business.

Wha....no. I'm not saying that at all. First off, the sheer quantity of a response Skyler got was more than the MRA population. The MRA guys probably did the worst of it, but even casual viewers with no interest in the show beyond watching it had irrational reactions of hatred towards her. Second, I specifically pointed out that the distortions made applied to both genders, and even both in positive and negative ways. Skyler got the worst of the negative end, but there I've also seen insane arguments about how Jesse had some moral obligation to never rat out because some unsaid criminal code of honor or that Hank had no right to be angry with Walt or try to arrest him because he didn't have any evidence to his crimes he could present to court, and that his death was his own fault for daring to try to bring in Walt, a criminal, which was literally his job.

There isn't anyone immune to irrationality, it's a fundamental human trait. Because we're not robots. That's why you have to actively watch out for this stuff, because it can get you too. You have to actively place your guard against fallacies and entrenchment and so on to even have a shot of avoiding them. If you think you don't, then all that means is that your all the more likely to fall into it.

 

[daninthemix]

Have to say I was disappointed when I realised that was the last episode and there's only 10 per season.

Was hoping Mike would actually shoot Hector. Felt like not a lot got done in this series.

Still a great show.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

How do you explain this, as a matter of pure fact, the show depicts the opposite of what your saying.

Nope, sorry, you don't get to play the "how do you explain being wrong?" fallacy.

Veelk, it's a fuckin' television show, dude. At some point, you need to step back and just realize that other people's opinions are not the end of the world.

 

[Veelk]

Nope, sorry, you don't get to play the "how do you explain being wrong?" fallacy.

Veelk, it's a fuckin' television show, dude. At some point, you need to step back and just realize that other people's opinions are not the end of the world.

So blatantly untrue bullshit is defensible as opinion now? Well, if that's the case, why not go the full 9 yards? How about we also say that Chuck cheated on his wife. With his mother, which is why he was so upset that she called for Jimmy. Not only did he think she loved Jimmy more, he thought she was loved Jimmy more, if you catch my drift here. And that's the reason his father is dead, because he found out. Not that he committed suicide of course, Chuck murdered him, staging the whole thing, chuckling darkly as Jimmy cried at the funeral. And after he did that, he cannibalized dear old dad, Hannibal style. Chuck also probably talks during movies, the prick. OH, give him evil psychic abilities too.

You have the sky as the limit and you're stuck making him marginally more spiteful than he actually is? You can do better than that. Your 'opinion' ought to be criticized for lack of creativity and effort if not for being unsubstantiated.

And also, you're not going to get far trying to discourage discussion in a discussion board. That is literally the purpose of this place.

Edit: also, what I asked was not a fallacy....nor do I recall that being a fallacy, formal or otherwise. What I asked, obstensively, was "Where is your evidence for your position and what is your explanation for the pretty substantial evidence to the contrary?" which didn't seem like an fallacious thing to ask then and doesn't seem to be so now.

 

[Saty]

How was Jimmy responsible for his head injury?? Chuck insisted on going out there despite his "condition", he insisted on getting more and more agitated despite the clerk telling him to back off and calm down and despite Ernesto trying to calm him down as well.

Come on now, Jimmy can be responsible for many bad things (like, say, forging the docs) but Chuck going out of his way to put himself in danger to his health simply because he wants to spite his brother is entirely on him.

Jimmy is partly responsible because he's the reason Chuck is out there. He did the deed, didn't confess when Chuck confronted him and then bribed that person to lie about Jimmy being in the copy-shop which further worked Chuck up.
Of couse Jimmy should feel he had a hand in Chuck's injury and he should be relieved it wasn't a major one.

Don't understand why some people have a problem with Mike's motive involving Salamanca. They did a whole episode establishing that Mike once took bribes as a cop and advised his son to do the same. His son got killed anyway. Mike goes out of his way to murder the cops responsible for his son's death and splits town. And Mike was severely distraught that he got his son to roll around in the dirt like him for nothing at all. Now, he's determined to take care of his daughter in law and grand daughter. Because of Mike taking Nacho's job to get rid of Tuco, he's put his family on the radar of Salamanca, who outright threatened his grand daughter. That's why Mike hasn't forgotten about him. He murdered cops for crying out loud, he doesn't give a shit about getting in the face of Salamanca at this point.

The reason Mike is in this situation in the first place is because he didn't want to kill Tuco like originally planned. He went for the gun charge trap and that's what put him on the radar. He shouldn't be surprised the Cartel will flex its muscle to get him to reduce the charge and he shouldn't as hell be surprised that they would threaten his family to get him to play along.

Mike's 'revenge' was satisfied after his successful heist. He should know better to stop here. He pulled off the perfect crime and has $250K to take care of his family. Looking to kill Hector is stupid on his behalf - it's extremely unnecessary and dangerous decision that has the chance of getting himself and his family again on the Cartel's cross-hairs. Mike should know better but instead he acts like some sort of punk that has to 'protect his respect' by offing the guy who threatened his loved-ones with the irony being that Mike is already yesterday's news for the Cartel but doing what he planned to do would have put him and his family on the cover page of a wide-reaching crime organization.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Regarding the pacing / editing. I also think this show is shot beautifully.

I mean, in this finale there was a scene where Chuck just went to the garage to get his tape recorder. That's all that happened. They didn't need to show it at all. But I still enjoyed it, because it was all filmed so well, and I was interested in what he was doing. I wasn't shouting "get on with it!" at the screen!

And then there was the bit with Mike preparing to take the shot. Again, simple stuff, no dialogue or anything, and in the end he didn't even take the shot. But it was great tension, everything that was going on was shown so well. And it ended on it's own cliff hanger. Who left the note?

I dunno. I don't really know anything about framing/filming/editing or any of that. But I just know that I'm always engrossed in this show. Some guy earlier joked how next season will just have a ten minute shot of Jimmy eating a bowl of ice cream. Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Vince to make that work somehow.

 

[Izuna]

Oh I love the editing, and it's that that there IS a cliff hanger... I mean, maybe the acting was so good but I could tell Chuck wasn't sincere. Jimmy should have had the same vibe I feel.

A surprise cliff hanger doesn't work when we see it coming a mile away. I wish I didn't have this ending in so many shows I have watched recently.

I hadn't been able to predict anything else in this show I don't think haha. Every encounter, even when you know Mike etc. Can't die, there is so much tension and unexpected solutions.

That being said, it was a great season. Probably one of the best TV I have ever seen.

 

[MrBadger]

Not really. Chuck doesn't see a difference between made up bullshit and actual bullshit. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Chuck knows he's right and his desperation to prove it in a world where everyone sides with Jimmy over him is what's driving him to these lengths. And it's been like that for him his entire life. There haven't been any instances of Chuck not seeing through Jimmy's real intentions.

 

[Veelk]

Chuck knows he's right and his desperation to prove it in a world where everyone sides with Jimmy over him is what's driving him to these lengths. And it's been like that for him his entire life. There haven't been any instances of Chuck not seeing through Jimmy's real intentions.

But MrBadger, what about the time Chuck accused Jimmy of working for an egomaniacal meth chemist? He was totally off base with that one.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

I wonder if Chuck will ask Ernie to make a copy of the tape, and Ernie will "lose" it, or at the very least warn Jimmy.

 

[Veelk]

I'm pretty sure Ernie is already fired.

Jimmy admitted to bribing the copywriter kid explicitely, and implicitely how he said it (between the time Ernie left and he arrived), so that conflicts with Ernie's story that he just called Jimmy there.

I suppose it's possible that Ernie could both call Jimmy and him being there, but that sounds flimsy, so yeah. It's another example of how Jimmy doesn't think of the consequences of his actions. Even if Chuck didn't have that tape recorder, with the knowledge that his assessment of the copywriter episode being correct, he'd have every reason to fire Ernie.

He might not because maybe he'll think of some way he can use Ernie against Jimmy, but if he does, I am calling the fan reaction right now: Furious outrage at Chuck for the clearly unreasonable response of firing an employee that lied to his face and aided and abetted Jimmy's fraudulent scheme.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I'm pretty sure Ernie is already fired.

Jimmy admitted to bribing the copywriter kid explicitely, and implicitely how he said it (between the time Ernie left and he arrived), so that conflicts with Ernie's story that he just called Jimmy there.

I suppose it's possible that Ernie could both call Jimmy and him being there, but that sounds flimsy, so yeah. It's another example of how Jimmy doesn't think of the consequences of his actions. Even if Chuck didn't have that tape recorder, with the knowledge that his assessment of the copywriter episode being correct, he'd have every reason to fire Ernie.

He might not because maybe he'll think of some way he can use Ernie against Jimmy, but if he does, I am calling the fan reaction right now: Furious outrage at Chuck for the clearly unreasonable response of firing an employee that lied to his face and aided and abetted Jimmy's fraudulent scheme.

Come on now, don't talk about "fan reaction". I'm a fan and I'm extremely sympathetic towards Chuck.

But yeah, Ernesto is toast. I thought he was done after the Mesa Verde thing, since Chuck specifically told Ernesto to stay with him. If he'd have done that, Jimmy couldn't have ratfucked Chuck. I was surprised he was still employed in the finale tbh. He's definitely done now.

 

[Veelk]

Come on now, don't talk about "fan reaction". I'm a fan and I'm extremely sympathetic towards Chuck.

But yeah, Ernesto is toast. I thought he was done after the Mesa Verde thing, since Chuck specifically told Ernesto to stay with him. If he'd have done that, Jimmy couldn't have ratfucked Chuck. I was surprised he was still employed in the finale tbh. He's definitely done now.

You know what I mean. I'm a fan too, after all, I wouldn't be here if I wasn't.