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[CHC]

Howard actually turned into one of my favorite characters in the show. I really feel the tension with him. He's not a bad guy, in fact, he's not even really an asshole unless his sense of professional dignity is put into a corner. I feel like he's someone who genuinely wants to be warmer, more human person but was just born and bred for his role at HHM and will be forever burdened by his own career.

Fantastic finale and a great season.

Gutted it's over.

I wonder how they start season 4:
A) fast forward to his suspension being early over and him finding his criminal lawyer niche
B) carry on where we left off in the morning after the ending scene

I feel like we're due for a fast forward. The only plotline that demands any kind of immediate resolution is the one with Hector / Nacho, but even that could be skipped over if Hector winds up in a coma or something, and operations are suspended.

Mike signing on to HR, Jimmy tying up loose ends with regards to his own guilt, them moving from the space, and Chuck departing HHM (and the world of the living) all seem to point to a flash forward. It just doesn't seem like there's any reason to smash cut right back to where we were. Jimmy and everyone else will find out about Chuck, be sad, etc.

 

[Fuu]

"The Adventures of Mabel" was on the desk with the lantern when Chuck committed suicide.

It's also the novel young Chuck was reading to young Jimmy at the start of the episode. The excerpt sort of fits Chuck's breakdown too.

- It was very still except for the tree-toads and the frogs in the brook peeping mournfully, and every little while Mabel could hear strange rustlings in the leaves. She tried to remember the way home, but the woods looked so different now that she couldn't think which way to go. She began to be frightened. 'What's that?', said Mabel. 'Oh, I'm... I'm so frightened!'. In a minute or two she heard the howl again... 'O-o-o-w!'... a long, wild cry. She began to run, but the poor thing had lost her way.
- Is she gonna be okay?
- She'll be fine, Jimmy.
- How do you know?
- Just listen. You'll see.

 

[CHC]

 

[duckroll]

So.... I've been letting my thoughts on the excellent finale simmer for a bit, so I think continue thinking about it. In the end, it's really about... acceptance. The exchange between Chuck and Jimmy (sadly the final one they will ever have) hammers this home. Most of the worst conflicts in the season happened because people could not accept who they were and who others were. So what happens when they do accept that? Jimmy destroys his chance of a payout to feel better about himself as a person. Kim destroys her short term career to just stretch her legs and live a little. Chuck kills himself. Yikes. These are not mentally healthy people who have a strong grip on their lives. We have always known this, but seeing it play out like this leaves no room for doubt.

The most interesting character moment in the finale has to be the implication that Kim always knew what Jimmy was doing, doesn't judge him for it, and accepts it as it is. I think the show has always suggested that Kim knew, but left the question open as to whether she was silently judging and waiting to see if Jimmy would come clean or not. This answers the question that no, she is actually okay with who Jimmy is, but it is Jimmy who isn't comfortable with who he really is so he makes excuses and hides things from Kim sometimes thinking she will judge him for it. Despite it happening "off screen" so to speak, this is a watershed moment for the character relationship because now Jimmy knows Kim is all in, and he can be more comfortable being himself.

Chuck though. Chuck.... Chuck... My respect for Howard shot through the roof. The funeral for Chuck in S4 is going to be emotionally intense. :/

I wonder if this is what ultimately breaks HHM. We know they're not doing great financially despite being a huge firm. Howard is the only one holding it all together now. When Howard thinks that his actions pushed Chuck to suicide, can he continue holding on? If Jimmy blames Howard (as if Jimmy would blame himself!) for what happened to Chuck, will he try to tear HHM down? There are... no winners here.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Yeah, I expected Chuck to go up in flames or at least the house since the first time we saw how haphazardly he was placing that lantern, also expected a suicide from him but not a combination of the two.

Yes. As others have said, that scene is too specific to be meaningless so it's definitely a possibility the writers are hinting at. I hope it's not though, I really like Kim.

I hope it's not too and I wouldn't want Kim to become one of those statistics but with how easy it can be and how that scene was played it feels like that could be the route they go. I still hope she gets out and has a happy life after she and Jimmy have their probable falling out.

I'm pleasantly surprised not a single person here mentioned how good Rhea looked in her PJs. It was all over Reddit in a good-natured way.

She's 45 years old. She's stunning.

IMO she looks better outside the show from what few pictures I've seen from BCS interviews.

 

[Pakkidis]

I find it strange that HHM is this big legal law firm employing hundreds of people yet they can't afford to buy Chuck out for 8 million?

8 million is pocket change for some big name law firms.

 

[Tender Joe]

"The Adventures of Mabel" was on the desk with the lantern when Chuck committed suicide.

Hahaha, like a complete idiot, I just waltzed into this thread before watching the episode (or realizing this was the season finale) and this is the first post I see. I don't know what I was thinking.

Time to go watch it now and hope it's part of a dream sequence! I'll be back.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

Just watched the finale.

Damn.

Chuck loses someone and instantly develops a mental illness. First with his wife and lastly with Jimmy.
Without his career, his wife, and the only person who has stuck by his side through thick and thin, not even 3 million dollars could keep him wanting to live.

That scene is just powerful af.

 

[newtypepilot]

"The Adventures of Mabel" was on the desk with the lantern when Chuck committed suicide.

According to the insider podcast, this was not planned at the start of the season. The book was added initially as a throwaway because Vince's mom read it to him when he was young iirc. The writers decided later to add the connection for the final episode.

 

[rocketskates]

Hahaha, like a complete idiot, I just waltzed into this thread before watching the episode (or realizing this was the season finale) and this is the first post I see. I don't know what I was thinking.

Time to go watch it now and hope it's part of a dream sequence! I'll be back.

Yeah, no he's dead.

 

[smokeymicpot]

I find it strange that HHM is this big legal law firm employing hundreds of people yet they can't afford to buy Chuck out for 8 million?

8 million is pocket change for some big name law firms.

Their insurance went up and they lost business because word got around that Chuck went crazy.

 

[cLOUDo]

I just want a moment to say...

Fuck you Chuck, I hope you burn in hell (no pun intended)

Also... what a boss Howard, in just a few minutes become one of my favorites characters in BB/BCS's universe.

 

[TB14]

What an incredible season. Chuck's final breakdown was heartbreaking to watch, despite how despicable he was. Truly a testament to everyone involved. Give this show all the Emmy's.

 

[ColdPizza]

Amazing finale.

Anyway, just because we as viewers saw this as a suicide, it may not come off that way to the people in the show. By all accounts Chuck was "better" and had his shit together.

 

[Sunster]

I just want a moment to say...

Fuck you Chuck, I hope you burn in hell (no pun intended)

Also... what a boss Howard, in just a few minutes become one of my favorites characters in BB/BCS's universe.

you have no idea what you've just done.

 

[big ander]

Amazing finale.

Anyway, just because we as viewers saw this as a suicide, it may not come off that way to the people in the show. By all accounts Chuck was "better" and had his shit together.

More like by Chuck's account, and in direct contradiction with medical professionals and his friends and family. Jimmy and Kim aren't going to hear from Dr. Cruz that he was canceling appointments and not filling and taking his prescriptions and think that it was just an accident. Plus even though there's a fire I assume there will be some evidence that the house was torn up before being torched.

 

[Amir0x]

Isn't it possible they won't realize it was suicide? The way he did it could potentially be confused for an accident

 

[BobTheFork]

Isn't it possible they won't realize it was suicide? The way he did it could potentially be confused for an accident

I'm betting on it.

 

[xezuru]

Isn't it possible they won't realize it was suicide? The way he did it could potentially be confused for an accident

I ain't no fireman detective smart man, but I could even see them ruling it as foul play, I mean I doubt everything is just gonna be incinerated into powder but things like how everything is absolutely scattered hundreds of items are around the house and walls destroyed pre arson could make it look like a premeditated burglary to find something. But once someone who knows Chuck gets on scene yeah it would probably look more like an episodic accident.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Not that sad of an episode. Irene got her friends back, Hector's gonna be in a wheelchair (yes I know he'll get the last laugh on Gus)... and Chuck died.

Okay, that was mean... but man, Chuck's last words to Jimmy. :| What a terrible human being.

And in a moment of personal crisis, he sides with a petty thief that was committing an actual crime. It's a petty crime, but when he saw it happening, he sided with the guy who stole the store property from a presumably innocent party. That doesn't really imply to me that he's a goody-two shoes in the future.

...Sides? Doesn't he tell the cops where the kid is hiding by pointing at the photo booth, and then just tells the kid to get a lawyer? How is that "siding" with him?

She's 45 years old. She's stunning.

Source? IMDB and Wikipedia have no date of birth.

 

[Amir0x]

...Sides? Doesn't he tell the cops where the kid is hiding by pointing at the photo booth, and then just tells the kid to get a lawyer? How is that "siding" with him?

To me it's clear the old Jimmy was still there in the way he acted there. Has a conscience but is selfish as fuck.

 

[rekameohs]

According to the insider podcast, this was not planned at the start of the season. The book was added initially as a throwaway because Vince's mom read it to him when he was young iirc. The writers decided later to add the connection for the final episode.

It sucks, but it's really hard for me to get through the Insider Podcast now with how bloated it has become. I think I made it about 40 minutes into this week's before checking out because they hadn't even started talking about the episode yet.

I mean, I appreciate how much they like working with each other - it makes for a great show. I know they want to have a mini film class for future writers, but they need to put that stuff into a separate podcast because it's the same thing every single week.... I took a few film classes before and got way more out of those than this; all I want is the writers room stories on how they decided on character choices, funny filming moments, etc.

And I loved, loved the Breaking Bad Insider Podcast. The finale episode, with Vince's horrific pitches that never happened, was amazing.

 

[Deku Tree]

Ok I'm a bit late but just watched the season finale.

Howard knew that the worst thing he could do to Chuck was to offer to pay him off. Chuck was itching for a fight.

The payoff destroyed Chucks ego more than anything.

To complete the Jimmy Transformation Kim has to go too somehow. They made you think it might happen with the car crash. I wonder if that is next season?

 

[BunnyBear]

Source? IMDB and Wikipedia have no date of birth.

Google says 1972. I assume it's not readily available because like most 40-something actresses, she's probably judged on her age by casting agents.

 

[duckroll]

Isn't it possible they won't realize it was suicide? The way he did it could potentially be confused for an accident

The most logical outcome is that everyone who knows him will think he had a massive relapse which resulted in a fatal accident.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Isn't it possible they won't realize it was suicide? The way he did it could potentially be confused for an accident

I don't see how anyone would be able to definitively figure out it was a suicide. They have documentation on how Chuck lived. Maybe, just maybe Jimmy might get suspicious because he saw the house in good order and now the investigators will find it back to being a mess. It's a single origin lantern fire in a house full of scattered papers and books, presumably no smoke detectors because they use batteries. He did cancel his appointment, but even that just speaks to his slide back into his old behaviors.

I think the only peculiar things might be Chuck's location in the house. But even then, maybe the pills he takes make him sleepy. The fire would go up so quick that he wouldn't have much time anyway. The timing is suspicious, everything else is pretty much in line with Chuck's lifestyle over the last few years.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Isn't it possible they won't realize it was suicide? The way he did it could potentially be confused for an accident

The only people who saw his house back in normalcy was Howard and Chuck. The last thing anyone knew was the pictures Jimmy brought up as evidence.

 

[Swimmer9800]

As a MASSIVE BB fan I was a Saul naysayer for the majority of the first 2 seasons. On a grand scale the plot lines from those early episodes mean almost nothing now. However, in terms of character building they meant the world. I came to realize/remember that BB was the exact same way in the early seasons and I can't believe I was foolish enough to not trust in Gillian and company.

 

[dead souls]

Damn, the show lost its best character.

 

[hydruxo]

Damn, the show lost its best character.

Had to happen eventually though. Tragic end to a tragic character.

 

[Deku Tree]

How do the ratings in S2 of BCS compare to the ratings in S2 of BB? I don't think the ratings of BB were super great in its first few seasons.

 

[Bounceounce]

I just want a moment to say...
Fuck you Chuck, I hope you burn in hell (no pun intended)

Also... what a boss Howard, in just a few minutes become one of my favorites characters in BB/BCS's universe.

Wow such morality much empathy

 

[BunnyBear]

BB ratings were pretty soft but rose steadily though season 1 - 4 and blew up in S5.

The problem for BCS is that it has declined every season. It got a short bump after the Gus reveal but the latter of season 3 has seen ratings drop off once again.

It's not disastrous, but it's not great either. On a bright note, Vince and Peter told the Hollywood Reporter today that S4 is a formality, and the only unsure element is when it will air. They blame upheaval at Sony for the renewal delay. I suspect late renewal means the entire production progress gets pushed back accordingly, so let's hope the green light comes soon.

 

[RecRoulette]

Trying to figure out if Chuck was purposely trying to hide the fact that he committed suicide or if he was just so far gone that he just wanted it to be done.

I personally think that he wanted it to look like an accident. But I'm not entirely sure. He's completely gone in that last scene.

The only people who saw his house back in normalcy was Howard and Chuck. The last thing anyone knew was the pictures Jimmy brought up as evidence.

Shit, I didn't even think of that. So people will go "Shame, he lost his mind and accidentally killed himself through his negligence"

 

[Button]

Chuck's expression right after Jimmy left for the last time:

Spoiler

Don't you think he said what he said to Jimmy to lessen the impact of his suicide? I think he had at this point already decided that he would kill himself. The emotional load then triggered his last electricity rampage which ended in the act of killing himself.

I'm seeing opinions that Chuck was just being an asshole when he said he never much cared for Jimmy. It just feels too horrible to be genuine.

 

[TheSun]

I like Kim, she's my favorite character, but her fans are starting to remind me of Talimancers in a way.

Sad end for ol' Chuck. Least we don't have to drag the brothers rivalry for another season.

I have a feeling that Jimmy'll skip the funeral, maybe even say a jerk thing or two.

Really like the Nacho plot. I have a feeling he's getting more focus next season. Dunno if Mike will have more B-plots, but he's always fun to watch.

Good shit. Now for the looong wait for four.

 

[xezuru]

Chuck's expression right after Jimmy left for the last time:

Spoiler

Don't you think he said what he said to Jimmy to lessen the impact of his suicide? I think he had at this point already decided that he would kill himself. The emotional load then triggered his last electricity rampage which ended in the act of killing himself.

I'm seeing opinions that Chuck was just being an asshole when he said he never much cared for Jimmy. It just feels too horrible to be genuine.

I was telling my friends that Howards dialog prefacing Chucks exit sounded and acted 130% like exactly how Chuck would speak act and chastise. Similarly, I felt semisimilarly in the Chuck/Jimmy, scene where it just seemed like Chuck talking about regret was dialoging about himself the whole entire time.

 

[KarmaCow]

I was telling my friends that Howards dialog prefacing Chucks exit sounded and acted 130% like exactly how Chuck would speak act and chastise. Similarly, I felt semisimilarly in the Chuck/Jimmy, scene where it just seemed like Chuck talking about regret was dialoging about himself the whole entire time.

Yea that's where I'm at. He probably wasn't actually aware of it until afterwards, hence his expression and he didn't know how to deal with it, so he fell back into his delusion to try to cope. He seemed to genuinely want to find the live wire still drawing power so I don't think his suicide was all that premeditated.

 

[bebop242]

People are going to know Chuck lost it by his call to service the electricity and the broken meter outside of the house.

I text a friend after watching the finale and I said "damn at that ending" which my friend responded "damn at those PJs." Lol I didn't even notice them.

 

[Javaman]

Maybe the phantom power draw were the hard wired smoke detectors.

I like to think the lousy CPR Fring did (which every show does poorly so as to not hurt the actor) was in reality him pretending to go through the motions to make it look like he tried to save him, but really not doing anything.

 

[UrbanRats]

Damn, the show lost its best character.

Yeah, but damn this episode made it worth it.

All season we knew he was gonna die, and i was kind of dreading it, because dramatic deaths often feel very cheap, but this was handled beautifully.

 

[pigeon]

So.... I've been letting my thoughts on the excellent finale simmer for a bit, so I think continue thinking about it. In the end, it's really about... acceptance. The exchange between Chuck and Jimmy (sadly the final one they will ever have) hammers this home. Most of the worst conflicts in the season happened because people could not accept who they were and who others were. So what happens when they do accept that? Jimmy destroys his chance of a payout to feel better about himself as a person. Kim destroys her short term career to just stretch her legs and live a little. Chuck kills himself. Yikes. These are not mentally healthy people who have a strong grip on their lives. We have always known this, but seeing it play out like this leaves no room for doubt.

I'm not sure I think this judgement is reasonable. Chuck is clearly nuts, but then we knew Chuck was nuts from the first time he appeared on the show.

Jimmy will still get his payout eventually, and he gets to do the right thing. If you've already decided Jimmy is basically amoral then this seems false to you, but I don't think that's right. The takeaway from this episode is that he genuinely didn't realize he would permanently hurt Irene, and was willing to throw away his (admittedly moribund) practice to take it back. He just also learned that being hated is just as easy as being loved, and sometimes more effective.

Kim just got in a pretty major car accident and has a serious injury. Frankly, the idea of going right back to work is clearly bad. I think you have this exactly backwards -- Kim thinks about jumping right back in, then realizes she needs to make better life decisions and refrains, because she actually is quite mentally stable and reasonable. She's not going to lose the bank, and she really isn't equipped to take on any other clients, so her career is right where it was.

 

[Hazmat]

Isn't it possible they won't realize it was suicide? The way he did it could potentially be confused for an accident

I'd imagine the official report will list it as an accident and Jimmy will never know if it was an accident or suicide. It has been mentioned (maybe multiple times) that a way that Chuck was a danger to himself was his use of gas lanterns.

Great finale. Dark stuff.

 

[Fury451]

Damn. That live mic scene was hard to watch.

And the ending.

 

[flaxknuckles]

Chuck looked completely drained when he started kicking that lantern. He just sat there with so little fucks he didn't even give a fuck to quickly throw the lantern on the ground or even find some less painful way to kill himself.

 

[Compsiox]

Fall is such a depressing episode. I almost stopped watching. I can't believe Jimmy. It's so disgusting.

 

[SalvaPot]

I was expecting that to happen, but now Chuck to actually do it himself. The long, drawn out way really cemented how dark it was. Fuuck that was harsh.

 

[UrbanRats]

Did they ever show the first time Chuck showed symptoms of his (mental) illness?

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Did they ever show the first time Chuck showed symptoms of his (mental) illness?

Not sure about the first time, but there was a flashback to when Chuck started experiencing EHS when Rebecca used the cell phone. Jimmy was helping out with removing electronics and nearly exposed Chuck's condition. I believe it was in Chicanery.

 

[caliph95]

Did they ever show the first time Chuck showed symptoms of his (mental) illness?

No i don't think so the closest we get to a timeline that is likely after him and his wife splitting up