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[Human Trashcan]

Both shows have this basic conflict where the primary engine of the show comes out of the fun of being surprised at watching the lead character solving challenges in creative ways (whether vis magnets, chemstry, or gift of gab), and yet the main character is doing this in pursuit of bad ends and driving away his loved one by doing so. That tension is the same. I feel like they are going to have to end Jimmy's story differently from Walt's so they don't repeat themselves. I feel like this show is probably going to deal with that tension in a more mature way -- meaning I never felt like we got a full feel for how destructive Walt was to his family, or how much Walt himself felt that. His final scenes with them were all over the phone or in that one very cold final scene with Skylar. Whereas here the series is framed by Jimmy being alone, no family, no loved ones. Walt is the one who destroys him in the end, and he's dead, so he can't get vengeance like Walt did. That leaves only redemption, which could be interesting.

Yeah that conflict is at the center of a lot of modern "prestige" television (I hate the term but it gets the point across). A lot of it is about antiheroes or straight-up terrible people, so the audience ends up rooting for them. Which is fine to an extent because if there's no protagonist, there's no show anymore. Where I think this gets nasty is when misogyny gets involved. A lot of the reaction to Skyler from BB was super toxic to the point where even the actress got a share of it. But yeah I think a lot of anti-Chuck sentiment basically comes from the fact that he's against Jimmy and Jimmy is the protagonist (as well as a more personable, affable guy despite his moral failings).

But when you say redemption, do you think the show will actually continue the present-day (post-BB) story in a meaningful way? Because redemption isn't really possible in the show's timeline.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

That's the impression I got. Like when a driving company buys driving insurance for their employers, and than a driving related charge can cause you to get fired because it spikes their premium. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the final straw for Howard, who could have dropped Chuck a long time ago for mental concerns, but has indulged him because he wants Chuck to return.

That makes sense. As a partner and a lead attorney who signs off on all sorts of cases, Chuck's mental illness could make the rates spike for the entire firm, not just himself.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

But when you say redemption, do you think the show will actually continue the present-day (post-BB) story in a meaningful way? Because redemption isn't really possible in the show's timeline.

Don't you think they have to, at least for a few episodes? If not redemption, then at a minimum, re-emergence?

 

[____]

I don't remember Mike being put in acid. He was just left to die.

He was definitely dissolved in acid. Walt stuffed his body in the trunk and brought it back to the lab. I just rewatched a week or so ago.

 

[Human Trashcan]

Don't you think they have to, at least for a few episodes? If not redemption, then at a minimum, re-emergence?

I don't think so. I see his exile and living in fear as basically karmic retribution. I think that's just the rest of his life, basically. I certainly hope Gilligan doesn't repeat the mistake he made in the BB finale where he gave Walt an out on his own terms.

 

[Fuu]

Jimmy didn't fool me for even one second with the pity party at the end. Excellent acting by Odenkirk though, it's more that I know better from the character at this point, especially with how things developed in this episode where you could just see him cracking little by little. Great scene.

 

[Nyx]

I loved every single episode this season so far. And yes, Odenkirk is doing a great job, but so are most if not all 'main' actors on this show.

 

[Bakkus]

Man, the first half of this season was fantastic in every sense of the word, but these last two episodes have been really 'ehh'...

 

[smokeymicpot]

Man, the first half of this season was fantastic in every sense of the word, but these last two episodes have been really 'ehh'...

Breaking Bad did the same thing. It slows down and then it will build up to end the season.

 

[shira]

Ehhh not my cup of tea.

The whole film crew thing doesn't work at all.

 

[Einchy]

Man, the first half of this season was fantastic in every sense of the word, but these last two episodes have been really 'ehh'...

There's a bit of calm before the storm going on right now with Jimmy not really knowing what he is going to do with his life for the next year or how he will be able to pay for the rent. We're probably seeing the final straws happening right now that will ultimately turn him into Saul.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Another solid episode. S3 is great so far.

 

[Lothar]

I don't think so. I see his exile and living in fear as basically karmic retribution. I think that's just the rest of his life, basically. I certainly hope Gilligan doesn't repeat the mistake he made in the BB finale where he gave Walt an out on his own terms.

How well can karmic retribution of a protagonist work if the person doesn't regret it though? He's watching VHS tapes of his Saul commercials because those are good memories. He wishes he was still doing that, not being Jimmy in Davis and Main.

This is very similar to Walt where both weren't happy before they became criminals and borh weren't happy when it was over and they look back fondly at the time.

 

[mr.beers]

[edit]

Something I didn't really get was that story the lady told Mike. How exactly did that convince him to help Nacho? Was it cus her husband randomly got killed even though he wasn't in the game, like what will happen to Nacho's dad? Feels like I maybe missed something important in that scene.

I think it was the "Good Samaritan" that Hector killed that still motivates Mike and her story reminded him of that.

 

[tearsintherain]

Something I didn't really get was that story the lady told Mike. How exactly did that convince him to help Nacho? Was it cus her husband randomly got killed even though he wasn't in the game, like what will happen to Nacho's dad? Feels like I maybe missed something important in that scene.

Yeah, I don't get what prompted Mike to go involve himself again with Salamanca, Nacho, and indirectly Gus Fring just based on the lady's story of her husband going MIA. Most likely he had an accident in the park but his wife doesn't know what happened to him and that makes her (and him) sad.

Literally involving yourself again with the cartel puts you in a position where that could happen to YOU, you disappear and your daughter in law and grand daughter are left to wonder what happened to you. Or even worse, the cartel decide to use your relatives as pawns again. Mike doesn't know anything about Nacho's dad at this point, he is only told once he actually meets Nacho. The only dumbass who could possibly be hurt is the thieving chemist, and I can't imagine Mike having much sympathy for him.

It was just weird, I don't understand what about that story triggered Mike into getting involved in things that are far more dangerous than most people think, and Mike absolutely knows exactly how dangerous it is.

I mean I can understand something that triggers Mike deciding to work for Gus, the idea that money buys protection is something he knows. But these random one off jobs that pay very little and put him in immense danger is just so off character for Mike, unless the viewer is supposed to think he is deliberately putting himself into danger.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

I think it was the "Good Samaritan" that Hector killed that still motivates Mike and her story reminded him of that.

This is my take as well. It's what I immediately thought.

 

[Cornballer]

Podcast for this week is up.

The usual hosts are joined by Gould, Gilligan, Michael Mando, Tom Schnauz, and a few others.

 

[RecRoulette]

I'll agree that the last two episodes have been a lot of setup for what's to come, but I'm cool with that. It hasn't been boring.

Edit: Is Mike already working for Gus? He had a LOT of money stored away. Like, way more than I thought that one job would pay

 

[Septimus Prime]

So, I'm on season 2, episode 7 now. Can't wait to catch up.

 

[Bakkus]

There's a bit of calm before the storm going on right now with Jimmy not really knowing what he is going to do with his life for the next year or how he will be able to pay for the rent. We're probably seeing the final straws happening right now that will ultimately turn him into Saul.

Breaking Bad did the same thing. It slows down and then it will build up to end the season.

I guess, but it doesn't change the fact that it is pretty underwhelming. btw, what was the end product of him at the end telling about Chuck's disease? I thought everyone already knew.

 

[Human Trashcan]

How well can karmic retribution of a protagonist work if the person doesn't regret it though? He's watching VHS tapes of his Saul commercials because those are good memories. He wishes he was still doing that, not being Jimmy in Davis and Main.

This is very similar to Walt where both weren't happy before they became criminals and borh weren't happy when it was over and they look back fondly at the time.

karma is just comeuppance. He doesn't have to feel remorse to be "punished".

 

[SporeCrawler]

dat last scene. jimmy basically sabotaging - unintentionally - chuck which will drive chuck mad and kim will be against jimmy due to this

 

[Lord of Castamere]

I'll agree that the last two episodes have been a lot of setup for what's to come, but I'm cool with that. It hasn't been boring.

Edit: Is Mike already working for Gus? He had a LOT of money stored away. Like, way more than I thought that one job would pay

That's the money he stole from Hector, I believe.

 

[Ieu]

dat last scene. jimmy basically sabotaging - unintentionally - chuck which will drive chuck mad and kim will be against jimmy due to this

Oh no, that was fully intended. That's Jimmy saying "if I'm going down, then you're coming with me brother".

 

[Crimson-Death]

This is one of the best episodes of the series so far.
Certainly one of my favorites.
This fucking show.

The character drama/development and the underlying twisted nature of it all. The acting. Nacho, Kim, Jimmy, had some real shit this week, and Mike seems to be finding his determination, he is becoming more sure of his choice and path.

 

[Lothar]

karma is just comeuppance. He doesn't have to feel remorse to be "punished".

Yeah but how would that be satisfying? If the main character doesn't think he did anything wrong and the audience still likes him. Then it just ends with the person everyone is pulling for getting punished. What a dreary disappointing end that would be.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Just want to say it again, this season has been AMAZING. Seasons 2 and 3 both, really. What a show. Wow. I never miss a minute when it airs on monday nights, I cannot wait to see how the season ends, and i cant believe we gotta wait two weeks for the next new episode!!

 

[SporeCrawler]

what i dont understand is... why doesnt kim just hire jimmy to do some of the mesa verde takss. some of those things can be done without the license, right? kim obviously needs a helping hand and jimmy can use something to make money.

 

[riotous]

what i dont understand is... why doesnt kim just hire jimmy to do some of the mesa verde takss. some of those things can be done without the license, right? kim obviously needs a helping hand and jimmy can use something to make money.

Comes down to the state as far as I can tell:

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/disbarred_but_not_barred_from_work/

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

what i dont understand is... why doesnt kim just hire jimmy to do some of the mesa verde takss. some of those things can be done without the license, right? kim obviously needs a helping hand and jimmy can use something to make money.

I wonder the same thing. Surely he can be a paralegal or consultant?

 

[Fuu]

As much as Kim likes Jimmy, I don't think she feels comfortable with him touching her work, especially with how thorough she's with it. She'd basically have to review everything he does anyway. It's the whole reason they have separate solo firms, because he couldn't promise her he'd stay on the straight and narrow.

dat last scene. jimmy basically sabotaging - unintentionally - chuck which will drive chuck mad and kim will be against jimmy due to this

100% intentional. His face while leaving the room and his smile at the end leaves no doubt.

 

[SporeCrawler]

As much as Kim likes Jimmy, I don't think she feels comfortable with him touching her work, especially with how thorough she's with it. She'd basically have to review everything he does anyway. It's the whole reason they have separate solo firms, because he couldn't promise her he'd stay on the straight and narrow.


100% intentional. His face while leaving the room and his smile at the end leaves no doubt.

she could also get some clients on her name on the side but let jimmy do the work

also yes she is thorough but in big cases you have to cooperate

 

[Human Trashcan]

Yeah but how would that be satisfying? If the main character doesn't think he did anything wrong and the audience still likes him. Then it just ends with the person everyone is pulling for getting punished. What a dreary disappointing end that would be.

oh I see what you're saying. I don't know, I think by the end of Breaking Bad, Jimmy has regrets aplenty. But BCS is basically a greek tragedy, is my take. Jimmy and Chuck will destroy each other. Jimmy will probably "win" but it will be a Pyrrhic victory because Chuck will be dead or institutionalized, Kim will leave him (my prediction is she will be forbidden to practice law in NM and thus leave the state forever and probably hate Jimmy's guts), and he'll be Saul the ambulance chaser until Walt comes along and basically ruins his life. We already know how it ends, but it's interesting, funny, and sad to see how Jimmy got there.

 

[UltimaPooh]

I'll agree that the last two episodes have been a lot of setup for what's to come, but I'm cool with that. It hasn't been boring.

Edit: Is Mike already working for Gus? He had a LOT of money stored away. Like, way more than I thought that one job would pay

That's the money he ripped off of Salamanca last season. Not Gus money.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I wonder how many #TeamChuck converts there will be when the season (or series for that matter) ends.

Why? Just because Jimmy is a dick as well?

They are both scumbags, but go about it differently. Jimmy's actions going forward do not automatically justify the hurt and pain (both legally and emotionally) that Chuck caused multiple people. They are a reaction to it, and at this point, I 100% see them destroying each other.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

I guess, but it doesn't change the fact that it is pretty underwhelming. btw, what was the end product of him at the end telling about Chuck's disease? I thought everyone already knew.

Some people might not have heard it considering that the hearing was about Jimmy destroying evidence, so word might not spread as fast as you think (makes sense that Mesa Verde would follow considering Kim gave them a warning about what was going to happen when she defended Jimmy).

I wonder how many #TeamChuck converts there will be when the season (or series for that matter) ends.

Chuck is still an asshat. This isn't a good vs. evil scenario, it's much greyer than that considering Chuck ultimately thought that Jimmy would never change despite him wanting to do good. Chuck is technically indirectly responsible for Jimmy shifting to Saul Goodman.

 

[dani_dc]

I'm not entirely sure that screwing with Chuck insurance wasn't premeditated. The way he asked the employee to search for McGill rather than Jimmy McGill, essentially giving knowledge about Chuck to the employee, was way too convinient.

 

[Trouble]

I'm not entirely sure that screwing with Chuck insurance wasn't premeditated. The way he asked the employee to search for McGill rather than Jimmy McGill, essentially giving knowledge about Chuck to the employee, was way too convinient.

It was obviously premeditated, IMO. As soon as he said 'my gal is mad at me' I knew he was playing at something.

 

[Einchy]

I don't know how it could be premeditated when he didn't even know his premiums were gonna go up, only reason he went there was to get a refund.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I think Jimmy did go to sort himself out but when he realised he was screwed again it was the last straw and he thought "that's it, he deserves to be punished"

It ties into him scouting potential marks with Kim, that guy he goes off on was about how he feels about chuck. He was actually honest about chuck when he said he loves him but after life has beaten him down so much he is turning to the dark side and becoming malicious.

 

[UrbanRats]

I don't know how it could be premeditated when he didn't even know his premiums were gonna go up, only reason he went there was to get a refund.

He's a lawyer, i'm sure he had a way to figure that out beforehand.

 

[Einchy]

He's a lawyer, i'm sure he had a way to figure that out beforehand.

So he knew about that but he didn't know he couldn't get a refund? This whole episode was about his money trouble, that scene was about him trying to get his money back and not one of his cons to fuck Chuck over.

 

[UrbanRats]

So he knew about that but he didn't know he couldn't get a refund? This whole episode was about his money trouble, that scene was about him trying to get his money back and not one of his cons to fuck Chuck over.

I can see that yeah, that was my reading too actually, but the turn on fucking over chuck is so smooth, that is hard to believe he didn't have some idea of doing it in the first place.

And it could be that he still tried to social engineer her into a refund, his desperation was real after all.

 

[duckroll]

I think the first gestation of the con was when she asked if he was Charles McGill. That's how he knew that Chuck was in their system too. Opportunity.

 

[| Praxis |]

Just want to say it again, this season has been AMAZING. Seasons 2 and 3 both, really. What a show. Wow. I never miss a minute when it airs on monday nights, I cannot wait to see how the season ends, and i cant believe we gotta wait two weeks for the next new episode!!

Two weeks... Wait, what?!

 

[Einchy]

Like I said earlier in the thread, I really do think you can kinda tell when it switches from being real to being a con by the way Bob Odenkirk acts. It goes from great acting on Bob's part, to kinda just looking fake since Jimmy isn't the greatest actor ever. Then he starts dropping stuff like 'gal', which he would never say.
[edit]

Haven't watched the full thing but this is a pretty good interview so far, Rhea Seehorn goes pretty deep into some stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLv0AHutFNE

 

[KarmaCow]

Two weeks... Wait, what?!

Next Monday is Memorial Day in the US.

 

[OléGunner]

Amazing ep, the acting and writing on this show is such of a supreme quality.
The end was great too. Initially when jimmy gets told his premiums are going up 150% he looks like he got hit by a feight truck and I believed he was heading into an actual breakdown after all the shit he dealt with this episode.

Then you see good ol' Saul creep out (with increasing melo-drama) and get the angle he's coming from to at least harm Chuck in some way.

Just one awesome scene from another fantastic ep.
Time to listen to the pod now!

 

[Alpende]

Amazing ep, the acting and writing on this show is such of a supreme quality.
The end was great too. Initially when jimmy gets told his premiums are going up 150% he looks like he got hit by a feight truck and I believed he was heading into an actual breakdown after all the shit he dealt with this episode.

Then you see good ol' Saul creep out (with increasing melo-drama) and get the angle he's coming from to at least harm Chuck in some way.

Just one awesome scene from another fantastic ep.
Time to listen to the pod now!

I loved that scene as well. It showed his true colors and I thought it was a pretty shitty thing to do. Yeah, Chuck is an asshole but this went a little too far imo.

 

[daninthemix]

I loved that scene as well. It showed his true colors and I thought it was a pretty shitty thing to do. Yeah, Chuck is an asshole but this went a little too far imo.

Nah Chuck deserves it.