jakonovski
Member
The difference is 99% marketing. I'd wager that you can take any cross bike and find the same geometry sold by someone else as a gravel bike. And vice versa.
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Bicycle age
- Thread starter elrechazado
- Start date
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Gravel bikes will likely have bigger clearance for wider tyres, but they're also venturing into the "touring" category of things.
So in love with my 2016 Speciailzed Allez, I've been putting 60-100 miles on it every week. Really psyched to do a 70 mile ride with my buddy from Philadelphia to the Jersey shore this upcoming weekend! If you're in the market for a entry level but still seriously capable road bike, it's hard to wrong with this year's model. Love it.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
What route are you taking and where to in the shore area? I've done the reverse from shore to new hope.
It's got a pretty new powder-coat finish.
Some clues to its age:
-Quill stem and threadless headset.
While still available, they're pretty rare in modern mass production, mostly being used on "retro" bikes (like the Fuji Feather).
-Horizontal rear dropout.
On nearly all modern bikes, the rear wheel is held in a vertical dropout, just like the front wheel. It's a bit easier to seat the wheel since there aren't any "options" for how it sits; you just pull it in, set the bike down, and gravity will decide where the wheel should be when you tighten the quick release.
On most vintage bikes of the mid-80s and before, the rear dropout is a much longer channel, and somewhat horizontal. This allows you to adjust the distance between the rear axle and the cranks, which makes the frames viable for builds that do not have a tensioner (single-speed and fixed-gear, or internal-gear hubs). The big disadvantage is that you have to be more careful making sure that the wheel is seated properly; drivetrain force will try to yank the axle forward on the drive side, and if the axle slips and becomes misaligned, the tire can wind up shoving against the non-drive-side chainstay, which is a scary way for a bicycle to be brought to a halt.
Incidentally, in the 1980s they also discovered how to make external-cam quick release mechanisms, which are cheaper to manufacture, weigh slightly less, and are also inferior at actually gripping things. That last bit isn't an issue for vertical dropouts, but it makes horizontal dropouts more likely to have problems.
-Lugged frame construction.
The frame's tubes were not welded. If you look at the joints, you can see lugs that the tubes are inserted into; the tubes and lugs were then brazed together. Modern mass-produced metal frames are basically all TIG-welded; TIG-welding saves a bit of weight due to the lack of lugs, and you don't need to have unique lugs for every combination of tube diameter and joint angle you want. You can still pay a custom builder a whole lot of cash to build you a lugged frame, but it died from mass production in the 90s.
Yeah, I wasn't sure how the bike would end up, and I didn't want to lock myself into a particular configuration. So I decoupled the brakes from the shifters, and used shifters with friction mode.
I swap out my shimano PD-M530's with Crankbrothers 5050 or mallets for downhill or technical rides.
I absolutely love them.. different pedals, yes, but the brand is legit.
Recommended
How do you know so much about bike construction? Crazy stuff.
Christoff Yurievich
Member
Have you ever sat and talked to crazy* bike people? Every mechanic I've sat with has ventured eventually into physics and all sorts of things that make me think they used to work for NASA or something but nope, it's just love of the bike.
*we're all a little crazy, some more so than others.
One of my club people posted asking people to do this ride
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/468963
So they could train to do this ride 2 weeks later
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/468988
Crazy bastards.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/468963
So they could train to do this ride 2 weeks later
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/468988
Crazy bastards.
Psychotext
Member
Last year I did 137 miles with 18,000 feet of climbing, and significant portions of it were not just off road, but completely unridable (half an hour of pushing at one point).
...believe it or not, I'm looking forward to this year's version of that very same ride. I'm hoping to get top 5.
...believe it or not, I'm looking forward to this year's version of that very same ride. I'm hoping to get top 5.
Psychotext
Member
It's odd though, I look back and I'm like... how the fuck did I do that?
I know I'm fitter and stronger now; I have all the metrics to prove it, but I'm still not convinced I can come back and improve on my performance.
I know I'm fitter and stronger now; I have all the metrics to prove it, but I'm still not convinced I can come back and improve on my performance.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Woke up for my normal 4am ride, saw a "light drizzle" warning but went out anyway. Saw 2 lightning flashes in the sky within a half-mile, checked phone and saw a huge red blob coming my way. Opted to go back home to be safe and sure enough within 5 minutes of being home HUGE thunderclap and skies opened.
Psychotext
Member
Cycling in thunder / lighting scares the crap out of me. Especially when I'm high up.
It's God's way of telling people to upgrade that steel bike.
We're still working out the kinks, but going from the shortest distance offered (between my apartment in philly and Manasquan, NJ) by Google maps, there's a lot of shouders and non-highways on the route. We're going to Manasquan because they have a dog-friendly beach that my girlfriend will meet us at with our dog. Looks like the whole ride will be about 70 miles... Definitely going into some pain, I haven't had the time to do much more than 40 mileish rides so far this summer.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Here's my recommendation:
head north towards Trenton/Lambertville/New Hope and cross over and take 524 all the way out. Going straight east and then north in NJ is going to be dreadfully boring since you'll be in the pine barrens. When we rode from Belmar to New Hope we took 524 all the way and you're mainly in rolling hills and farm. If you need further help PM me and I'll send you the route we took in a GPX and you can get an idea.
PMed!
EDIT: Is anyone in this thread from the Philly area? Would love to find some people to bike with.
FTFY
Small metal objects don't really "attract" lightning, and they don't lead it very much. If a lightning strike gets lead into your bike frame, there's a decent chance it was going to do nasty things to you anyway.
Also, of the common frame materials, aluminum is the most electrically-conductive, particularly after accounting for the very high cross-sectional area that aluminum tubes generally have.
I know - it was a joke for the layman, knowing full well a scientist would debunk it. I studied Materials Science as part of my MA Industrial Design. 
jakonovski
Member
Even carbon fibre is conductive, so there!
jakonovski
Member
Now that's just bragging. Dual crown fork too, oh my. Also with those brakes it must be the fastest downhill bike ever...for a while.
If you like my scruffy mofo, check out this beauty (if you ignore the seatpost):
Those parallelogram carbon forks are sex on toast.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=246556
Psychotext
Member
/vomits all over page
I imagine vomiting is a thrice-daily occurrence for you, PT.
jakonovski
Member
I'd say "oh matron" but someone vomited and the smell is a bit distracting.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Oh dear lord....
I joke with my bike shop all the time that I want them to rebuild my 98 Cannondale with all original CODA parts.
I joke with my bike shop all the time that I want them to rebuild my 98 Cannondale with all original CODA parts.
I have a Cannondale CAADX 5 105 that I need to make a lot more comfortable. Considering changing tires for more road use, but also a new saddle, and perhaps even adding break handles to the top of the handlebar.
Jesus Christ, I get tired by just thinking about it. Finding the correct parts, and I don't even know how to change tires - even less how to go about adding new break handles.
Jesus Christ, I get tired by just thinking about it. Finding the correct parts, and I don't even know how to change tires - even less how to go about adding new break handles.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
I have a Caadx 105 cyclocross that I need to make a lot more comfortable. Considering changing tires for more road use, but also a new saddle, and perhaps even adding break handles to the top of the handlebar.
Jesus Christ, I get tired by just thinking about it. Finding the correct parts, and I don't even know how to change tires - even less how to go about adding new break handles.
Check out the Continental Sport Contact tires. They're going to feel a little sluggish to get moving, but once they get rolling they're super smooth.
So experienced roadie folks - did you find that your average speed mostly increased from practice and pushing your limits with intervals and the sort, or was there an element of technique as well?
For example, I tend to lose a lot of speed on climbs, even gradual ones. I climb pretty slow and then also take a lot of time getting back up to speed once I hit level ground again. Is it worthwhile to get out of the saddle at the top to pick up speed or even during the climb?
For example, I tend to lose a lot of speed on climbs, even gradual ones. I climb pretty slow and then also take a lot of time getting back up to speed once I hit level ground again. Is it worthwhile to get out of the saddle at the top to pick up speed or even during the climb?
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Climbing is 100% personal preference. I think some studies were done on efficiency with seated climbing being more efficient, however that doesn't mean it is the correct way for YOU to ride. I personally follow the tried and true method: stay seated, relax your breathing and spin. What spin is will be up to you, but I try to stay in the 70-80RPM range. Anything above that I feel like I'm having energy loss. If the climb is shorter and I'm feeling it I'll sprint up it and this means I have to stand. You really need to try both and see which works best for you, but not everyone can be Contador and stand for an extended climb.
Now that all said, when it comes to climbing speed the only thing that will work is doing it more. Find a hill with some decent climb to it and hit it multiple times. Ride up, coast down, catch your breath and do it again. Alternative to this would be planning out a route that is rolling hills of sorts. Something where you may hit a hill or series of hills 2 or 3 times through out it.
Do this once a week, no more. You can ride a route with rollers multiple times, but I wouldn't plan to hit a truly hill oriented course multiple times in a week.
Now that all said, when it comes to climbing speed the only thing that will work is doing it more. Find a hill with some decent climb to it and hit it multiple times. Ride up, coast down, catch your breath and do it again. Alternative to this would be planning out a route that is rolling hills of sorts. Something where you may hit a hill or series of hills 2 or 3 times through out it.
Do this once a week, no more. You can ride a route with rollers multiple times, but I wouldn't plan to hit a truly hill oriented course multiple times in a week.
Psychotext
Member
You're always going to struggle on climbs Teggy. You have muscle.
If I can see the top of the climb clearly, and it's within a minute of me at good pace, I'll get out of the saddle and go for it. If not, sit, get comfortable, get your cadence up and spin it out at a painful but tolerable pace.
...and when you get to the top of the hill, speed up fast. It'll hurt at first but you'll still be recovering vs what you were outputting on the hill. (This is also why I don't like the hill repeat method. It encourages you not to push hard when you get to the top of the hill as you're expecting a decent rest. Over under style training is much better in my opinion.)
If I can see the top of the climb clearly, and it's within a minute of me at good pace, I'll get out of the saddle and go for it. If not, sit, get comfortable, get your cadence up and spin it out at a painful but tolerable pace.
...and when you get to the top of the hill, speed up fast. It'll hurt at first but you'll still be recovering vs what you were outputting on the hill. (This is also why I don't like the hill repeat method. It encourages you not to push hard when you get to the top of the hill as you're expecting a decent rest. Over under style training is much better in my opinion.)
Yep. Power-to-weight is great for climbing quickly in a burst, but it's the cardio and energy supply that gets you up long climbs. You want a beastly lungishness-to-weight and lots of red blood cells. Marco Pantani did the fastest ever ascent of Alpe d'Huez because he was a scrawny dude on tons and tons of EPO.
Attacking hills is useful because aero drag doesn't turn your effort to waste as badly as it does when you're moving fast on the flats, but on a long ride with lots of climbing, stay relaxed and don't push yourself past your thresholds. When you hit the hill, move forward slightly on the saddle to adjust posture for the grade, and keep your hands wrapped gently on the bars, no death grip. Most importantly, drop your gearing so that your legs are able to keep smoothly turning the cranks; keeping the gearing high and spending lots of force to turn the cranks slowly just wastes energy and hurts the knees.
Road climbing doesn't need to be that much different than riding on the flats, perhaps at moderately higher effort.
I get out of the saddle occasionally on climbs, mostly to stretch out and flex the muscles that are stiffening in climbing posture. I increase gearing by multiple cogs in back. stand up, and gently rock the bike back and forth underneath me, making lots of use of my arms and weight to power the bike.
For "picking up speed"... well, it's one way of pushing past an extra-steep spot without changing gearing, since it increases your torque and effectively makes your bike behave as if it were geared lower (this also means that it's useful when your bike runs out of low gears). It's not really a free efficiency gain, though; if you're randomly hopping out of the saddle to pick up speed on a climb for the sake of picking up speed (and then falling back as you go back to normal pedaling), there's a good chance you're overall less efficient. Especially if your out-of-the-saddle form isn't very relaxed and efficient.
As a quick burst to get back up the speed when the road levels out... it's an option that feels good, I suppose. I sometimes do it, especially if the hill happened to level out very quickly so I didn't just smoothly get back up to speed.
Many road hills level out pretty slowly, and if I don't change effort as I get to the top, I'll just start going faster and increase gearing accordingly.
The hill leading up to my driveway is 8% grade according to ridewithgps (don't know how accurate that is) and it takes me about a minute to get up on my lowest gear and I have to exert effort (meaning I'm not just comfortably spinning, if I let up the bike would stop) and I am always winded at the top. I should just ride it over and over.
Haha, what does this mean? Shouldn't it help that I have decent leg muscles?
jakonovski
Member
Washing is key. Also regular checks that all the parts are in good working order and all the bolts tightened. And do check your tyres for embedded pieces of debris, nobody wants a puncture in the middle of nowhere.
Chain wear is a thing that should be checked every few months if you ride a lot, because a worn chain will in turn wear out more expensive parts, namely cassette and chainring. On top of that, it's recommended that once a year you do a proper maintenance.
Here's some useful videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUdAMlZtaV1333Cy1QnIZwqDXj1q0Ooyy
Chain wear is a thing that should be checked every few months if you ride a lot, because a worn chain will in turn wear out more expensive parts, namely cassette and chainring. On top of that, it's recommended that once a year you do a proper maintenance.
Here's some useful videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUdAMlZtaV1333Cy1QnIZwqDXj1q0Ooyy
TarpitCarnivore
Member
I clean my chain & bike depending on the riding, but I typically do some kind of chain / bike clean every 2-3 months.
Longer
The hill i like to hit once a week is 2 miles long. I think in the reading I've done a hill that is 3-6 minutes in climbing is idealLonger
A 2 mile hill? I mean, maybe I should start small...it's right out the door
TarpitCarnivore
Member
It's not 2 miles of 10%+, it's just a steady 2 mile climb with some up and down.
Also should be said: your work on hills will also directly translate to better performance on flats.
Also should be said: your work on hills will also directly translate to better performance on flats.
Psychotext
Member
Actually, no. On the flats, yes. On sprints, definitely. On hills, not even slightly.
Climber
Sprinter
Good luck doing that in the UK. :*(
I have to clean my bike every ride or it just becomes overwhelmed with mud.
But why? Don't you need muscles to push the pedals?
Psychotext
Member
Oddly, not really. You need a massive cardiovascular system to provide oxygen / process lactate. Bigger muscles can actually mean more lactate (and they obviously mean more weight).
You could smash out some low cadence sprints to get up the short stuff and take advantage of all that brute force, but anything of meaningful length you'll suffer by using that strategy.
Heavily bulked-up people have way more than enough muscle to ride quickly up a hill. And at a dead uphill sprint, a track sprinter could perhaps reach ascent rates in excess of what a great climber could, because the sprinter has more muscle per their overall weight.
However, that muscle needs oxygen in order to convert glucose and whatnot to force. There's a certain rate at which oxygen can be supplied by your heart and lungs. If your muscles are big enough that they can operate smoothly while producing forces well in excess of what your oxygen supply can support, then those muscles could operate smoothly while producing just about as much force even if they were much smaller; oxygen is the bottleneck. And if smaller muscles could produce just about as much force in this cardio-limited condition, the larger muscles are dead weight that just mill about producing extra lactate.
Obviously there's also a tipping point where your muscles are so small that they can't smoothly push the non-muscle parts of your body up a hill. But skinny mountain climbing cyclists aren't so lacking in muscle that this is an issue: their muscle amount is the sweet spot.
Very interesting. Well I guess I will keep having to get dropped on hills and then learn to scream back on the flats
Had this happen again this past weekend, although I think it was down to some less than considerate riders. Was having a really nice ride - was in a group of 6-7 doing about 15-16mph. It was super comfortable, maybe even easier than it needed to be, but that was fine, I just wanted to get my miles in. Then at about 12 miles a group of 3 came up from behind us on a hill and pushed hard and for some reason the group decided to join them. A guy that got dropped with me said we were pushing 20mph on the flat before they wound up getting way ahead on a hill. Was pretty annoying. I don't understand why they did that because they set the pace early and there was even a guy who kept rotating back to see how people were doing.
I find that it's possible for mud to collect on bikes in places other than the UK. The trick I've discovered to keep mud from accumulating on a bicycle is to not ride through mud.
Psychotext
Member
Well that doesn't sound like fun. Why even cycle?
Yeah, it's a really tough balancing act. My cycling training really suffers when I weight train as well... but vanity wont let me look like a climber.
Very interesting. Well I guess I will keep having to get dropped on hills and then learn to scream back on the flats
Yeah, it's a really tough balancing act. My cycling training really suffers when I weight train as well... but vanity wont let me look like a climber.
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