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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
Not to yank the curtain back too far, but Nolan tried to get Inception made for years and couldn't get a studio to bite on the concept. It wasn't until Batman Begins and subsequent films that he could seriously get it off the ground.
It wasn't an easy film to write either. But none really are, eh?
Warner Bros. finally gave him the greenlight to pacify him into returning for a third Batman film, which he originally had no desire to do after Ledger's death and The Dark Knight's nearly universal adulation.
So perhaps it could happen if an auteur that connects with the material, and has the gumption and ideal happenstance steps up to give it a shot. But the odds aren't in its favor.
RadixNegative2
Member
Has anyone drawn any comparisons to Braid yet? Not only with the whole space-time thing, but also in regards to the
I wonder how much Braid influenced Infinite. Has Ken Levine talked about this at all? Am I just crazy in drawing this comparison?
Princess in Braid and what we find out about Tim's relationship to her at the end; that Tim wasn't necessarily trying to save the Princess after all.
I wonder how much Braid influenced Infinite. Has Ken Levine talked about this at all? Am I just crazy in drawing this comparison?
The Xtortionist
Member
I think it makes total sense that way. By turning the "accept" scenario into a paradox, the universe strikes that possibility out completely, leaving only the "reject" scenario. If all possible scenarios involve Booker rejecting baptism, spacetime is never threatened by Comstock's meddling since Comstock never exists.
I'd also have faith in Liz to fix things. In addition to being omniscient throughout all dimensions and timelines, she also read Lutece's books on quantum mechanics. I highly doubt whatever she did by drowning Booker would fail to change things, or she would have done something else instead.
So, the crux of it all, is accepting that:
When the universe encounters a paradox due to a choice, it systematically wipes out all timelines associated with that choice, and only allows the timelines with an alternate choice to be made.
Therefore, since Booker accepting baptism and becoming Comstock always winds up in a paradox, the universe goes, "No", wipes those timelines out, and only allows timelines featuring baptism rejection to exist.
Hence, the post-credits scene.
Am I...on the right track?
When the universe encounters a paradox due to a choice, it systematically wipes out all timelines associated with that choice, and only allows the timelines with an alternate choice to be made.
Therefore, since Booker accepting baptism and becoming Comstock always winds up in a paradox, the universe goes, "No", wipes those timelines out, and only allows timelines featuring baptism rejection to exist.
Hence, the post-credits scene.
Am I...on the right track?
sounds good to me
The Xtortionist
Member
That's the best theory I've heard.
And besides, the post-credits scene is the only office flashback where Booker isn't being harassed by Robert Lutece to bring him the girl (correct me if I'm wrong). So this implies that Comstock and the Lutece twins are out of the picture.
An thus everything is reset and Booker never sells elizabeth away
Booker walking away from the baptism isn't ideal because that would just start the chain of events all over again. The Booker we play as is that guy, and we see just that happen.
Every single time Booker walks away from the baptism, he becomes private investigator Booker DeWitt with a daughter Anna that he gives up to Comstock to pay off debts.
Booker had to be killed before even entertaining the choice. That put an end to every possible timeline that would have come from either rejecting or accepting the baptism in a multiverse where Comstock could still exist.
Booker's death now allows for the possibility as others have said that infinite other Bookers will still go to the baptism post-Comstock-oblivion, but every single one of them will refuse it, because to accept it would lead to a paradox. And since no Bookers will ever accept it, there will never be any Comstocks for heavily in-debt Bookers to concern themselves with. An infinite amount of them will still give up Anna to someone, though. :<
José Mourinho
cocknose
So I just watched it on YouTube. Yeah, makes sense now. You reject the first time. But, as you pointed out, on returning Elizabeth states that "this isn't the same place" and that "in other places you did reject" -- or something to that extent.
So with that cleared up. I don't even want to think about whether there are now two Bookers in that timeline. Since player Booker seemingly just waltzed in.
Yup, that's my thought on the after credits.
Can I say that everything Booker experienced now feels like a dream to him?
This...is an amazing way to put it. My brain doesn't hurt and I get it. Awesome.
Technosteve
Banned
In the airship ticket office sectionof the game, how does that woman know Elizabeth's name is Anna?
Nemesis_
Member
It makes me wonder if Comstock has informed these people about who Elizabeth really is. She is a cop, right?
Re: the Vox you find after her
NAME: Take Her Alive
AUTHOR: Esther Mailer
DATE: July 6th, 1912
LOCATION: Park Ticketing
This is the moment we trained for. The False Shepherd is here. The day was not exact, but... the Prophet's sight proves out again. The specimen much be taken alive. If she dies, I suspect they will give us to the bird. And whatever pieces it leaves behind will bear no names... That was cigarette number six. This waiting is insufferable.
So from reading this I guess she was just dispatched by security to retrieve Liz after her rescue by Booker. For some reason, Comstock probably informed them that she could answer to the name of Annabelle maybe? Which highlights that Comstock was aware of her past.
She doesnt, she just uses a fake name to get Elizabeth to reveal her name and confirm she is the person they are looking for
Nemesis_
Member
Coincidence that she uses a fake name that is actually her real name though? >_>
Thank you, I thought the same.
Obviously, Levine put that in as a wink-wink-nudge-nudge, but the player wouldn't know that until after the game.
Right.
Did the game ever explain how the Bioshock universe handles paradoxes?
I feel like that would be essential for arriving at this conclusion.
This logic is the missing piece of the puzzle that left me scratching my head. That paradoxes result in 'timeline erasure', as it were.
Or is that just a commonly accepted theory in Quantum Mechanics in our reality?
It's suspected it may be a nod to the official Elizabeth cosplayer they hired, whose name was also Anna.
Escape Goat
Member
It would make sense for Comstock to tell police the 16 year old girl they're looking for will respond to that name.
I don't even know how it applies to Multiverses which complicates matters.
CambriaRising
Member
Thought she was 20, not 16?
On that note, her age graph in the tower says Age 17 as the latest measurement.
Nemesis_
Member
Chasing more images like this, hopefully Dead End Thrills do Infinite next.
She's 21.
sleeprockss
Banned
My guess is Comstock wanted to know if Booker had told her that she was his daughter.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The closest thing to an "orthodoxy" you'll find in physics is the conjecture that paradoxes can never be created in the first place. The most elegant implementation of this is to disallow time machines entirely.
Most logically, there can't be a paradox. So either we've got the wrong idea about the paradox, or it's the right idea and the universe deals with it in some fashion - in this case, by erasing all possible timelines beyond a certain point.
Just remembered: The Order of the Raven were criminally underused. I would like a DLC focussing on/involving them.
EliteArtist
Member
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. What? Her name is.... Kevin Levine everybody *slow clap*
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Or Elizabeth is a teenage girl who does not have perfect knowledge of all things, and was mistaken about erasing all Comstocks, who still exist in some other universes. But the way the ending seemed was that it had BTTF style "oh no people fading from existence" after Booker got drowned, implying that time traveling Elizabeth committed auto-infanticide, paradoxes be damned.
The Xtortionist
Member
I think Comstock is dealt with in the ending. No way an omniscient Elizabeth who is already versed in quantum mechanics from Lutece's books fails to fix things.
I think it's implied that the Columbian police/military were involved with them.
I agree. That secret cult was really interesting but we were there for about 15 minutes.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I think it's the same reason that the coin comes up heads every time. They can't change certain things.
The Xtortionist
Member
I'm thinking they may have been more interested in using Booker's journey for their experiments. Good question though.
But we know that Booker can die in that moment. So that can change. Maybe the trick was that they're just limited with where they can go? But Liz is effectively truly omniscient and can go anywhere, do anything? They had to get her to do it?
For evidence that they've tried this 122 times, we just have the chalkboard/coin-flip experiment, right?
I'm happy smiling it off, as a necessity for the game's action and story to occur. I'm just wondering if there's actually a reason provided for why it had to be Liz doing it, or why it couldn't be them doing it.
I honestly think they dont really give a shit, they are omnipresent and god-like, they are a neutral party who is in it for the fun, they have each other and thats all they need
CambriaRising
Member
Cool tidbit about that part, what Booker chooses is randomized. I had to restart and one time he picked heads, another tails.
I want to believe that, because it's kind of in character for their inquisitive, exploratory nature.
But the game action's catalyst is their remorse, isn't it? Their desire to want to fix things, undo Comstock, etc. So you'd think they'd be more.....driven.
Yeah, when my buddy played the first hour, Booker said tails. Came up heads anyway, of course.
Apophenia Overload
Member
A lot of it is just:
(comparative mythology)
Biowareshock
Brucey, dearest, if you haven't already, add the quoted items above to the first category in the OP, after The One Who Knocks, listed under the subheading "In other words."
The Fraternal Order of the Raven was an amazing sequence.
The darkness, the birds, the banquet, the statue of John Wilkes Booth, the painting of Booth with a saintly halo as he assassinates a devil-horned Lincoln... And then Columbia's take on Klansmen, and the fellow with the coffin and Murder of Crows, and the racial purity painting, and the black men dead in cages... Chilling stuff, man.
And it's right across the street from the couple holding civil rights meetings in their home!
Wow, she used the BioShock 1 wrench to knock out Booker? I didn't catch that.Oh god damn it
EDIT and this...although I did see this one and forgot about it
And yeah, the zeppelin in the opening shot is most definitely meant to mirror the whale outside Rapture in a parallel reality. Simply amazing.
What my brain is just coming around to realize, is that:
The Luteces basically didn't like the sequence of events that occurred in their timeline. So, they actively sought to create a paradox, as a means of wiping out those timelines. Would that be correct?
Timeline destruction.
Fascinating.
But at the end of the day...given an infinite number of realities...aren't there realities where the Luteces didn't actively seek to do this? And thus, Comstock went ahead and survived?
Doesn't a multiverse theory's central tenet hold that ALL possibilities happen? Everything conceivable occurs, in some universe somewhere out there? That it can't just be shut off by stopping a choice from being made?
The Luteces basically didn't like the sequence of events that occurred in their timeline. So, they actively sought to create a paradox, as a means of wiping out those timelines. Would that be correct?
Timeline destruction.
Fascinating.
But at the end of the day...given an infinite number of realities...aren't there realities where the Luteces didn't actively seek to do this? And thus, Comstock went ahead and survived?
Doesn't a multiverse theory's central tenet hold that ALL possibilities happen? Everything conceivable occurs, in some universe somewhere out there? That it can't just be shut off by stopping a choice from being made?
Buckethead
Banned
Whoever said that clearly doesn't know anything about said concepts.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Not sure. My thought process was that even though they knew he could die there, they weren't the ones who could do it. He would somehow survive every time they were the ones who tried. But they knew that he could die there but didn't know how to string it together so that it would be perfect.
Even when you see multiple versions of yourself walking around the lighthouses, something had to have changed with those versions so that he didn't die right?
sleeprockss
Banned
I recorded a video earlier of the Songbird noise in the original Bioshock. It happens around the 5 second mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ylek2yRnrc&feature=youtu.be
I still think it's just reused assets between the games but it would be crazy if it wasn't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ylek2yRnrc&feature=youtu.be
I still think it's just reused assets between the games but it would be crazy if it wasn't.