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[Incendiary]

Someone help me understand why the Luteces couldn't just kill Baptismal-Accepting-Booker themselves?

They seem to have practical omniscience and freedom of movement across the universe.

They're stuck inbetween universes. They can open the hole for Booker to cross through, but they can't really effect anything concretely. That's why they're so bored. Or at least, that's what I took from it. It's like they're everywhere but nowhere at the same time, so they can do things like row and send telegrams and stuff but...unless I'm mistaken they never actually touch Booker, right? They hand him things and objects, but you can never actually touch them. Much like if you try to shoot them in the Blue Ribbon, she just keeps saying miss. They can interact (or not interact) with objects, and talk to people, but they can't actually affect living things.

It's very weird.

The darkness, the birds, the banquet, the statue of John Wilkes Booth, the painting of Booth with a saintly halo as he assassinates a devil-horned Lincoln... And then Columbia's take on Klansmen, and the fellow with the coffin and Murder of Crows, and the racial purity painting, and the black men dead in cages... Chilling stuff, man.

I made a comment on this in the main thread, but it's moved so fast I don't remember the post number and can't be bothered to look it up...but I feel like the Order of the Raven was an example of something that was great in the opening but criminally underused in the second half. All the way up to the Hall of Heroes, the enemies and encounters are varied enough to keep it interesting. You fight the police for a while, you have the sub-sect of the Order of the Raven that's very creepy, you have the specific people looking for you/the guy that stabs your hand, you have Slate's soldiers that are draped in the American flag... and then after that the enemies really become faceless mobs with no identity. I would have loved more little areas like the Order of the Raven, with specific enemy types. Fink's "audition" would have been a great place for some uniqueness but it was just battles with faceless enemies.

 

[SlasherJPC]

So were vigors fairly new to the people in Columbia? or really expensive? Thus why people didn't use them? Just seems like other then the crow enemies and fire guys, no one else used them.

 

[LiK]

So were vigors fairly new to the people in Columbia? or really expensive? Thus why people didn't use them? Just seems like other then the crow enemies and fire guys, no one else used them.

someone in the other Spoiler thread mentioned that the Vigors aren't stable and not exactly safe so people don't actually all use it.

 

[Vire]

No idea if this was posted...

But you can hear Songbird at 14 seconds during the Sander Cohen Piano sequence in Bioshock 1.

Intentional? Probably not, they probably had the sound effect in the library, but nonetheless, pretty cool!

I'd like to think in my mind Songbird death was actually happening at that exact moment in Bioshock 1.

 

[LiK]

No idea if this was posted...

But you can hear Songbird at 14 seconds during the Sander Cohen Piano sequence in Bioshock 1.

Intentional? Probably not, they probably had the sound effect in the library, but nonetheless, pretty cool!

I'd like to think in my mind Songbird death was actually happening at that exact moment in Bioshock 1.

Yea, posted already. I don't hear it at all.

 

[Magnus]

I don't see why it couldn't be intentional that they reused that particular sound effect from BS1. I'd say it'd be pretty fucking wild to have actually planned the Songbird character and event from back then and planted it in the game in 2007.

Intentionally making the return to Rapture be in the same part of Rapture that the sound effect occurred in? Easy. Sure.

 

[Vire]

Yea, posted already. I don't hear it at all.

Really? Sounds exactly like the Songbird cry in the background at 14 seconds.

 

[SlasherJPC]

Yea, posted already. I don't hear it at all.

Put headphones on when you listen. That might help.

 

[Nemesis_]

Really? Sounds exactly like the Songbird cry in the background at 14 seconds.

Put headphones on when you listen. That might help.

WE NEED TO FIND THE SONGBIRD CORPSE ON THE SEABED NOW THEN

 

[Dmax3901]

Retroactive patch to Bioshock incoming.

 

[Vire]

WE NEED TO FIND THE SONGBIRD CORPSE ON THE SEABED NOW THEN

Haha, considering Songbird's design wasn't finalized till much later, I don't think that would happen.

Would be wild though.

 

[B33]

Retroactive patch to Bioshock 2 incoming.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Pyccko]

I gotta say, probably my favorite thing about the world was the subtle (and definitely not-so-subtle) ways it showed how the people were fetishizing patriotism.

The one that stands out in my mind the most was in Battleship Bay when you walk through the shop with the creepy
"Is it his look that bothers you, or his GAZE" guy, in the back of the shop up a little staircase, there was a dinner set up for him and a
Little Miss Columbia doll, along with some binoculars pointed into the store. Great touch.

 

[beastmode]

Could the vid have been part of the deal regarding that exclusive review?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yea, posted already. I don't hear it at all.

I decided to find better audio of the Bioshock 1 part and stick it in audacity and compare it to the Bioshock Infinite's screams.

It is the exact same length and has the same peaks as the death cries.

It's the same sound. Whether it's meant to be intentional as the Songbird's death is the only other question.

 

[LiK]

I decided to find better audio of the Bioshock 1 part and stick it in audacity and compare it to the Bioshock Infinite's screams.

It is the exact same length and has the same peaks as the death cries.

It's the same sound. Whether it's meant to be intentional as the Songbird's death is the only other question.

Hmmmm

Kinda works if true. Jack is in an area where he can't see it and he's already way past the beginning of the game where he cleared out the Splicers.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I decided to find better audio of the Bioshock 1 part and stick it in audacity and compare it to the Bioshock Infinite's screams.

It is the exact same length and has the same peaks as the death cries.

It's the same sound. Whether it's meant to be intentional as the Songbird's death is the only other question.

Ken!

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I decided to find better audio of the Bioshock 1 part and stick it in audacity and compare it to the Bioshock Infinite's screams.

It is the exact same length and has the same peaks as the death cries.

It's the same sound. Whether it's meant to be intentional as the Songbird's death is the only other question.

This is too damn cool.

 

[Vire]

I decided to find better audio of the Bioshock 1 part and stick it in audacity and compare it to the Bioshock Infinite's screams.

It is the exact same length and has the same peaks as the death cries.

It's the same sound. Whether it's meant to be intentional as the Songbird's death is the only other question.

Even if it is a coincidence. It's fucking awesome.

 

[sn00zer]

Whoever said that clearly doesn't know anything about said concepts.

Disregard the yin yang...mirror would have been more appropriate....Im actually starting to think mirror/reflection was a huge theme of this game, and the conflict that is created when the two meet but going to need some more proof

Well actually

-Booker/Comstock
-Baptized/Unbaptized
-Air/Sea (Literal reflection of Rapture)
-Dimwit/Duke
-Parent/Offspring
-Sane/Insane
-Sunshine/Storm
-Luteces
-77
-Revolution/Complacency (Fink's Factory)
-Extravagance/Derelict (Ghetto)
-Coin Toss
-Dead/Undead (Lin, Elizabeth's mother)
-Final Sequence was very similar to a hall of mirrors, especially due to the uniformity of it all

-Militant Atheism/Religion
-Aged/Youth (booker/comstock, elizabeth old/young)
-The bird and the cage is also from this poplar illusion simliar to a coin

-Obvious use of reflection and water at key scenes (baptisms, Comstock is killed in a baptismal font, you first see Bookers reflection in a makeshift baptismal font in the light house )
-As someone in this thread pointed out the whale image is flipped and should look like this

And finally
-A bird guards a cage

 

[Dresden]

I believe in the Levine.

 

[sleeprockss]

I decided to find better audio of the Bioshock 1 part and stick it in audacity and compare it to the Bioshock Infinite's screams.

It is the exact same length and has the same peaks as the death cries.

It's the same sound. Whether it's meant to be intentional as the Songbird's death is the only other question.

The weird part is that it loops in that scene. So it still doesn't fit perfectly with Bioshock Infinite but that's pretty cool if Irrational intended on using the same sound effect to connect the two games.

 

[Magnus]

But at the end of the day...given an infinite number of realities...aren't there realities where the Luteces didn't actively seek to do this? And thus, Comstock went ahead and survived?

Doesn't a multiverse theory's central tenet hold that ALL possibilities happen? Everything conceivable occurs, in some universe somewhere out there? That it can't just be shut off by stopping a choice from being made?

Let me rephrase my own musing, so that it applies to Bioshock Infinite more clearly:

Given an infinite number of realities, shouldn't there be realities where Booker does indeed refuse baptism, but then, a secondary event occurs that puts him down the path to becoming Comstock anyway?

• A friend or acquaintance, convincing him to reconsider
• A 'miraculous' experience that instills in him a restored respect for the divine
• Whatever

That's what I kind of loathe about any fiction that deals with space/time fuckery -- eventually, you can start to either rationalize anything, or find holes in anything. Anything becomes possible. Songbird's identity could wind up being almost ANYONE in DLC, and it could be rationalized away via multiverse theories. It could be another Booker. Another Jack/Ryan. It could be Anna Comstock. It could even be Liz from another dimension. It could be anyone. And we'd have to accept it.

 

[kotor22]

So . . why DID they put that sound in B1 anyways? Just ambiance noise then? Only used once near the end there?

 

[sleeprockss]

So . . why DID they put that sound in B1 anyways? Just ambiance noise then? Only used once near the end there?

It's just ambient noise, or at least it is for that particular room.

 

[sappyday]

So . . why DID they put that sound in B1 anyways? Just ambiance noise then? Only used once near the end there?

I thought it was a dolphin/whale when I first played it.

 

[kotor22]

It's just ambient noise, or at least it is for that particular room.

Ah so I guess this was just one of those things where they were at a meeting one day and someone said "Hey wouldn't it be cool if we . . " kind of thing? Hahaha still pretty neat though!

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

They're stuck inbetween universes. They can open the hole for Booker to cross through, but they can't really effect anything concretely.

This cannot possibly be true, since they give physical objects to people like coins to flip and regenerating energy shields.

 

[Squire]

Sorry if this has been asked before (I just beat the game/read the OP in full), but if Booker accepts the baptism and becomes Constock, are we to assume he just changes his name from Booker DeWitt to Zachary Hale Comstock?

 

[Lonestar]

One thing I'm wondering, is why are 2 of the 3 "closest Elizabeth's" at the end, taller than the middle one.

TALLER LIZ

 

[sleeprockss]

Sorry if this has been asked before (I just beat the game/read the OP in full), but if Booker accepts the baptism and becomes Constock, are we to assume he just changes his name from Booker DeWitt to Zachary Hale Comstock?

Yes

 

[CSX]

Sorry if this has been asked before (I just beat the game/read the OP in full), but if Booker accepts the baptism and becomes Constock, are we to assume he just changes his name from Booker DeWitt to Zachary Hale Comstock?

Yes the baptisim symbolizing him as being "reborn" which got him to change his name and be a new radical man

 

[Neiteio]

I made a comment on this in the main thread, but it's moved so fast I don't remember the post number and can't be bothered to look it up...but I feel like the Order of the Raven was an example of something that was great in the opening but criminally underused in the second half. All the way up to the Hall of Heroes, the enemies and encounters are varied enough to keep it interesting. You fight the police for a while, you have the sub-sect of the Order of the Raven that's very creepy, you have the specific people looking for you/the guy that stabs your hand, you have Slate's soldiers that are draped in the American flag... and then after that the enemies really become faceless mobs with no identity. I would have loved more little areas like the Order of the Raven, with specific enemy types. Fink's "audition" would have been a great place for some uniqueness but it was just battles with faceless enemies.

Well to be fair, the second half had the Vox Populi, the Handymen, the dead soldiers of Lady Comstock, the Boys of Silence and the asylum inmates, etc. There was still some variety to be had in the second half, not to mention they started ramping up combat complexity in general with Elizabeth's tear powers and skylines... But I do get what you're saying. Feeling hunted outside the black sympathizers' house, or stumbling across the Raven zealots in the middle of their rite, was tense and unnerving.

 

[Squire]

Yes

Yes the baptisim symbolizing him as being "reborn" which got him to change his name and be a new radical man

Okay, thanks. Makes total sense. The game didn't need to say it explicitly, but it went so fast it didn't feel firm.

 

[Neiteio]

So guys, on my first playthrough, I leaned most heavily on the following:

Machine Gun
Sniper Rifle

Murder of Crows
Shock Jockey

For a second playthrough, what would you recommend? I know I can use more than two weapons and two vigors, but just in terms of my "core set," if you would.

I'm thinking:

Hand Cannon
Heater

Undertow
Bucking Bronco

...might be fun. I was watching Adam Sessler's video review and they use this a lot.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Here ya go







Also this is a really nice thematic overview of Bioshock Infinite (posted by andrew in this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533001&highlight= )

http://peripsuche.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/bioshock-infinite-thematic-analysis.html

could show some use in a potential symbolic/themes section if you ever decided to make one.

This is excellent stuff. Thanks for finding that man!

 

[Zeliard]

Or Elizabeth is a teenage girl who does not have perfect knowledge of all things, and was mistaken about erasing all Comstocks, who still exist in some other universes.

Well we're led to believe that without the siphon holding her back, Elizabeth basically turns into a god, able to view and shape all realities.

 

[The Xtortionist]

So guys, on my first playthrough, I leaned most heavily on the following:

Machine Gun
Sniper Rifle

Murder of Crows
Shock Jockey

For a second playthrough, what would you recommend? I know I can use more than two weapons and two vigors, but just in terms of my "core set," if you would.

What difficulty? I used Carbine/Shotgun/Sniper/Hand Cannon and Possession/Crows/Return to Sender for 1999. Occasional Devil's Kiss to combo with Crows also. Not too difficult with this setup.

 

[Collider]

No idea if this was posted...

But you can hear Songbird at 14 seconds during the Sander Cohen Piano sequence in Bioshock 1.

Intentional? Probably not, they probably had the sound effect in the library, but nonetheless, pretty cool!

I'd like to think in my mind Songbird death was actually happening at that exact moment in Bioshock 1.

I don't know why some people are saying they can't hear it. I can easily hear it at 14 sec.
Its truly phenomenal.

 

[Vire]

Were the Boys of Silence ever really explained? Why are they in Comstocks House? Why do they summon masked founding father figures to beat you to death with blunt objects?

I really don't get the inclusion.

Just felt out of place. Was there a voxophone I missed or something?

 

[Salamando]

I don't know why some people are saying they can't hear it. I can easily hear it at 14 sec.
Its truly phenomenal.

A similar sound shows up near the end...around the 1:25 mark. Right now, I'm more inclined to believe it was from foley artists/sound technicians that worked on both games than something planned.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Were the Boys of Silence ever really explained? Why are they in Comstocks House? Why do they summon masked founding father figures to beat you to death with blunt objects?

I really don't get the inclusion.

Just felt out of place. Was there a voxophone I missed or something?

They are included because:
Its the future and the future is F'ed UP.

 

[DatDude]

Were the Boys of Silence ever really explained? Why are they in Comstocks House? Why do they summon masked founding father figures to beat you to death with blunt objects?

I really don't get the inclusion.

Just felt out of place. Was there a voxophone I missed or something?

I think there's something just in general were missing about that place.

Seems random in a way..but the game is anything but. So obviously it has a purpose..I'm guessing maybe a more thematic/metaphorical/symbolism approach is in order.

 

[DatDude]

I don't know why some people are saying they can't hear it. I can easily hear it at 14 sec.
Its truly phenomenal.

It's probably unintentional to be honest.

Which just makes it all that more creepier. Just gives me utter chills.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

it seems like The Boys and Mama Ghost were kind of... retooled in the last year of development. It explains how haphazardly both elements appear in the final game.

Take a look:
http://irrationalgames.com/insider/heavy-hitters-part-3-boys-of-silence/
http://irrationalgames.com/insider/heavy-hitters-part-4-siren/

 

[Hylian7]

Here's a question, and maybe this is farfetched, but what actually crashed the plane in BioShock 1? We know that the gift was a pistol, but that's about all we really knew. Ryan said that it was hijacked, however when the plane started to crash, Jack was still sitting in a passenger seat. What if it's possible Elizabeth opened a tear, through which Songbird hit the plane, causing the crash. That thing broke in half when it hit the water obviously.

Am I grasping at straws here?

 

[Vire]

it seems like The Boys and Mama Ghost were kind of... retooled in the last year of development. It explains how haphazardly both elements appear in the final game.

Take a look:
http://irrationalgames.com/insider/heavy-hitters-part-3-boys-of-silence/
http://irrationalgames.com/insider/heavy-hitters-part-4-siren/

It shows, both inclusions seemed out of place and didn't fit with the main themes of the story.

One of my only complaints about the game.

Here's a question, and maybe this is farfetched, but what actually crashed the plane in BioShock 1? We know that the gift was a pistol, but that's about all we really knew. Ryan said that it was hijacked, however when the plane started to crash, Jack was still sitting in a passenger seat. What if it's possible Elizabeth opened a tear, through which Songbird hit the plane, causing the crash. That thing broke in half when it hit the water obviously.

Am I grasping at straws here?

Yes.

 

[Zeliard]

Songbird is the plane

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Am I grasping at straws here?

unbelievably so. Jack killed the pilot and crashed the plane.

 

[Papercuts]

Boys of Silence came off as late additions to me. They're blind/have hearing supplements on their ears yet you can run right by them, aren't really explained and don't seem to have any actual movement animation. I still liked the Comstock House segment a lot bearing that in mind.