Support NeoGAF

[XANDER CAGE]

I think what's most obvious - and I adored the game, don't get me wrong - is that the narrative as we know it came late. I don't think it was always intended to be what it is, simply because there are so many disparate elements that seem to be there still - the ghost originally being a singer in the world, the boys originally walking around the whole thing, the stuff we saw in the earlier gameplay matinees. This always happens, which is fine. I think it's deft use of whatever. But people thinking that stuff was established a few years ago for anything to do with the narrative are really grasping at straws, I think.

It seems more like the story was finished very early on, but had to be re-shuffled as the realities of developing the actual game became apparent.

If you watch some early demos (whichever the first one with Troy Baker is), you can hear some of the exact same recorded dialogue from the final game used in entirely different contexts. In one of the 2011 demos, Booker and Elizabeth are fighting to get to Comstock House to ask for his help, which I imagine would have resulted in the meeting scene we got in the final game before finding Elizabeth. The order of locations and small details probably changed a whole ton once the game ceased to be an open-world-connected-via-skyrail affair.

 

[XeroSauce]

Nah. I was mulling everything over in my head. And then the scene after the credits gave me some hope.

What'd you think? I like that they left it open for players to speculate (most games do anyways).

 

[whatevermort]

It seems more like the story was finished very early on, but had to be re-shuffled as the realities of developing the actual game became apparent.

If you watch some early demos (whichever the first one with Troy Baker is), you can hear some of the exact same recorded dialogue from the final game used in entirely different contexts. In one of the 2011 demos, Booker and Elizabeth are fighting to get to Comstock House to ask for his help, which I imagine would have resulted in the meeting scene we got in the final game before finding Elizabeth. The order of locations and small details probably changed a whole ton once the game ceased to be an open-world-connected-via-skyrail affair.

Entirely possible. Technical limitations change what you want to do - that's apparent with Elizabeth. Interesting though that the two bits I liked least in the game - fighting the ghost (which was the game's low point, I felt) and the asylum (which felt odd for odd's sake, rather than being actually creepy a la Shalebridge Cradle) - seem to have been squeezed in when they no longer worked in another context.

 

[DatDude]

What'd you think? I like that they left it open for players to speculate (most games do anyways).

It's pretty much certain at this point that the loop was broken and that booker was reset in a new timeline where he didn't sell anna.

 

[DatDude]

Entirely possible. Technical limitations change what you want to do - that's apparent with Elizabeth. Interesting though that the two bits I liked least in the game - fighting the ghost (which was the game's low point, I felt) and the asylum (which felt odd for odd's sake, rather than being actually creepy a la Shalebridge Cradle) - seem to have been squeezed in when they no longer worked in another context.

You didn't like the atmosphere in the asylum? I would say it's the highlight for me since it was such a nice change of pace, and it did truly feel odd and creepy..but I guess that odd and creepy clicked with me more.

 

[Squire]

Nah. I was mulling everything over in my head. And then the scene after the credits gave me some hope.

What'd you think? I like that they left it open for players to speculate (most games do anyways).

I want to believe that Booker truly was "reborn" and Anna is behind that door. That he gets a real second chance.

 

[SummitAve]

The Comstock house came off as some sort of orphanage to me. Where a bunch of kids were making these founding farther masks for the patriot army Comstock was creating. The boys of silence were kinda like their foremen.

 

[Nemesis_]

The Comstock house came off as some sort of orphanage to me. Where a bunch of kids were making these founding farther masks for the patriot army Comstock was creating. The boys of silence were kinda like their foremen.

Artbook states that their clothes are school uniforms too.

 

[SummitAve]

Artbook states that their clothes are school uniforms too.

Yep it was their pajamas, and especially the layout of the beds that gave me an orphanage vibe.

 

[54-46!]

Has the plane crashed in to the walkway where Booker and Elizabeth are standing? can't tell from any of the videos out there.

Referring to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqIADFhjl1c&t=10m28s

 

[whatevermort]

You didn't like the atmosphere in the asylum? I would say it's the highlight for me since it was such a nice change of pace, and it did truly feel odd and creepy..but I guess that odd and creepy clicked with me more.

Not really. The whole WHERE WE SLEEP thing felt really over-egged, and the whole place was a bit purposeless. That jump scare got me - I howled like a baby - but the rest of it felt very tepid, and didn't really do much narratively. There wasn't a lot to discover. I thought it was redeemed when you get brought into the modern day, and I expected to see it in a totally different light, but then you don't. It was fine. It was a fine level in an excellent game.

 

[whatevermort]

Has the plane crashed in to the walkway where Booker and Elizabeth are standing? can't tell from any of the videos out there.

Referring to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqIADFhjl1c&t=10m28s

No.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Funnily enough, I think Comstock House had the room that affected me the most. The brainwashing room that had this playing had me standing for a good five minutes, just taking it all in.

 

[Truant]

I had to go to the bathroom during the Comstock House section, and I stood there taking a leak while Elizabeth's tortured screams bellowed in my living room. Man, some of that stuff was hard to listen to.

Levine probably tortured her in the booth to get the right performance.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Yeah, that performance was pretty raw and disturbing.

 

[Lakitu]

Bioshock Infinite is better than Bioshock but Bioshock has the better structure in it's HUB-like level design. I found exploration much more interesting in that one.

 

[Mako_Drug]

My favourite reflection during the credits was remembering how pissed Slate was that Comstock claimed to have been in the war...and technically he was

 

[Screaming Meat]

I think Comstock House had the room that affected me the most.

The bit that really got me was Preston's Voxophone about capturing the Indian kid. That was horrible.

 

[Riposte]

Funnily enough, I think Comstock House had the room that affected me the most. The brainwashing room that had this playing had me standing for a good five minutes, just taking it all in.

I'm not all that impressed with BioShock's original soundtrack, but it certainly makes great use of unoriginal music.

 

[Truant]

Infinite feels more like a real "city" but Bioshock has a better sense of place.

 

[Squire]

My favourite reflection during the credits was remembering how pissed Slate was that Comstock claimed to have been in the war...and technically he was

The transformation was so radical, Slate never noticed it was his old comrade all along...

 

[Lakitu]

So how did Slate end up in Columbia? I never noticed anything about that in the game.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The transformation was so radical, Slate never noticed it was his old comrade all along...

I thought he did? He makes sure to say you were thee, but Comstock wasn't. Essentially saying that while both men are in one in the same, their personalities have become so different, they've become two different people.

That's how I read it, perhaps I'm attributing meaning where there is none?

 

[Sblargh]

Infinite feels more like a real "city" but Bioshock has a better sense of place.

I don't know if you mean the same as me, but there were a lot of places where I didn't really felt like I was in a floating city. Finkton Industry didn't felt like it was floating at all, and Emporia also reminded me only sometimes that I was in the sky. Bioshock never let me forget I was under the sea, yet, I associated the floating house (Fink's brother) in Emporia to the supernatural stuff and had to remind myself later that the entire stuff is floating and that was supposed to be a malfunction.

 

[imjust1n]

I just finshed just so I could actually go in here to read this..HOLY SHIT WOW!

Inception has nothing on this game.

I cant wait to replay this over and over and over and over again : )

I dont finish many games but this one was my first one in quite some time.

I actually cant wait for the DLC!

 

[beastmode]

You know, I actually thought you'd get to become a Songbird as a parallel to becoming a Big Daddy in Bio1.

 

[VitalNerve]

Just finished this fantastic game.

So let me get this straight, trying to wrap my mind around this:

Dewitt became comstock after baptism. Dewitt owed a "debt" to comstock which he paid with Anna (Elizabeth). The only way Dewitt could kill comstock was to kill him at his birth, which was the baptism. After being killed any form of comstock in any universe no longer exists but the Booker that declined the baptism and Anna are still alive. Although Elizabeth no longer exists. Is that correct? Which is terribly sad, because the Elizabeth we came to love and know will no longer exists, she won't (possibly) ever want to go to paris, read books on how to pick lock etc. It is sad.

Also what was the debt? was it never mentioned?

I also get the coin scene now, If I am not mistaken that is a constant, right? because Dewitt always picked heads and it always landed on heads, there is/was no other outcome.

Is there any other incentive to play 1999 mode? other than more challenge and achievement.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So how did Slate end up in Columbia? I never noticed anything about that in the game.

A military man, Cornelius Slate had served in the United States military and participated in the Battle of Wounded Knee. It is there that he became acquainted with Booker DeWitt. Some undetermined time later, Slate became a follower of Zachary Hale Comstock and becoming a citizen of Columbia. In 1901, Slate participated in Columbia's role in the Boxer Rebellion. But overtime, Slate became disillusioned with Comstock after he was angered by Comstock's false war past. When he called Comstock out on it, Slate was stripped of his solider rank and marked as a liar. In response, Slate leads a rabble of soldiers who have holed up in the Hall of Heroes.

From the Bioshock wikia.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Just finished this fantastic game.
I also get the coin scene now, If I am not mistaken that is a constant, right? because Dewitt always picked heads and it always landed on heads, there is/was no other outcome.

Booker doesn't always choose heads but he does always get it... *ahem*. He picked tails on my first playthrough and heads on my second, which i thought was a pretty nice touch.

 

[PaulloDEC]

The bit that really got me was Preston's Voxophone about capturing the Indian kid. That was horrible.

Wow, yeah, that was awful. It was an amazing performance by the actor playing Preston though, you really felt it as he told that story. Wish there were more recordings from him.

 

[VitalNerve]

Booker doesn't always choose heads but he does always get it... *ahem*. He picked tails on my first playthrough and heads on my second, which i thought was a pretty nice touch.

Lol, oh yeah I forgot you had a choice.

 

[Lakitu]

From the Bioshock wikia.

Thanks!

 

[Squire]

I thought he did? He makes sure to say you were thee, but Comstock wasn't. Essentially saying that while both men are in one in the same, their personalities have become so different, they've become two different people.

That's how I read it, perhaps I'm attributing meaning where there is none?

I think that's the meaning of course, but no, I'm pretty sure Slate never realized that Comstock was his friend the whole time.

 

[Nugg]

Alright guys. Amazing thread. Here are my two questions:

Assuming Booker scared "A.D." in his hand after selling Anna, out of regret or something. How did Comstock knew about it in his prophecy. Did they meet again afterwards? How did Comstock knew Booker would come after Anna in the first place? He would'nt have, or couldn't have if the Luteces hadn't meddled in.

Next question: how did Comstock managed to build such a large and complex city in a matter of years? I mean, Booker reject baptism and has a baby girl a couple of years later or so. In the same amount of time, Comstock accepts the baptism, meets Lutece, Lutece invents the technology for the tears and for Columbia (well ok, maybe that happened before), they watch through tears, Comstock becomes somehow crazy rich and they build a whole fucking city. Then he comes for the baby. Did he really did all this over a few years, or is there some kind of time travel too?

 

[Korey]

I don't get the Preston Downs character. Who is he?

 

[Screaming Meat]

I don't get the Preston Downs character. Who is he?

I think he's originally hired by Comstock to hunt down Vox Populi, Fitzroy and eventually Booker.

However, in one of the parallel universes (the one where the Vox rise up) Booker uses his knowledge of the Sioux language to help Preston, who is looking after a young Indian boy he captured (in a particularly grisly manner) working as a courier for the Vox. After this he joins the Vox... or at least threatens to go after Comstock. Not sure how it ends for him. DLC , perhaps?

 

[diamount]

So how did Slate end up in Columbia? I never noticed anything about that in the game.

Comstock probably gave him an offer to come to Columbia after serving with him in the 7th.

 

[Harlock]

What happened for the horse scene, where Elizabeth is healing his injuries? I remember other scene where one building is falling not showing too.

 

[diamount]

What happened for the horse scene, where Elizabeth is healing his injuries? I remember other scene where one building is falling not showing too.

My guess is that was conceptual footage. It also wouldn't make much sense to use real horses in Columbia considering they had automated ones.

 

[Squire]

What happened for the horse scene, where Elizabeth is healing his injuries? I remember other scene where one building is falling not showing too.

A lot of stuff was cut or altered. They threw that scene out completely.

 

[toastyToast]

Really? it was the opposite for me, I appreciate Infinite's lore and story but the parts where I actually had to play it weren't anything special. It felt like any other shooter out there, where I would just walk in a single direction and wander in to another combat arena, duke it out and move on.

Might have been the shooting, the guns were no fun to use. I think I stopped as I entered Fort Frolic but I can't recall the exact area

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS X Infinity

Something multiplied by infinity is infinity. So what you're saying is... replay Infinite?

 

[PaulloDEC]

Regarding the Songbird screeching from the original Bioshock: I've just heard that exact sound in Infinite. I'm currently still quite near the beginning, at the house where the couple are printing the "Friends of the Negro" posters.

I'm certain it's the exact same sound. It even does a particularly distinctive thing where the first two screeches are more focussed on the right side of the sound-stage while the third is more on the left, just as it did in the IGN Fort Frolic clip.

Make of that what you will

 

[Screaming Meat]

Okay, here's a thought:

There is a parallel universe where Booker becomes a key figure in the Vox Populi revolution, right? If Comstock is Booker and you are alternate!Booker, which universe did Martyr!Booker come from? Is this just another one of your failed attempts that you get to pass through?

 

[Squire]

Did anybody else notice the differences between the Elizabeth's at the end? I think the first one on the left of the screen is the original model from the 2010 demo!

 

[Keyser Soze]

What happened for the horse scene, where Elizabeth is healing his injuries? I remember other scene where one building is falling not showing too.

Thats in an alternate reality where the game had a lot more features and depth

 

[StuBurns]

The horse thing wouldn't make sense now, she doesn't struggle to control tears, and it doesn't make her fatigued or anything.

 

[diamount]

Thats in an alternate reality where the game had a lot more features and depth

Considering there was no-hands on with that demo, it's hard to say if it was a more in-depth game or completely scripted to showcase certain mechanics.

 

[Riposte]

Did anybody else notice the differences between the Elizabeth's at the end? I think the first one on the left of the screen is the original model from the 2010 demo!

So what happened is scenes like the horse being healed weren't cut, they just occurred in a different timeline.

Considering there was no-hands on with that demo, it's hard to say if it was a more in-depth game or completely scripted to showcase certain mechanics.

That demo was bullshit for sure.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Here's a thought:

In the parallel world where the Vox Populi successfully rise up, there are THREE Bookers: Comstock!Booker, Our!Booker and Martyr!Booker. So, where did Martyr!Booker come from if that universe already has it's own Booker (in this case, Comstock!Booker)...?

 

[Squire]

So what happened is scenes like the horse being healed weren't cut, they just occurred in a different timeline.

I think that's a fun way to look at it, yes.