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[Jibbajabbawockky]

Did they ever explain why vigors didn't cause people to become splicers?

No. In the art book it seems like they had some concept art of people who were mutated by taking too much of the vigors. But they don't touch on that in the game.

 

[Melchiah]

Must've been Comstock. I guess it's likely that there were more direct parallels between his actions and actual religious events.
Or maybe it's about the relation between him and his followers. Everyone believes he's a prophet but it's just a lie, maybe this relation between a prophet/god and his followers was portrayed in a way that offended people with faith. Maybe he was implying that it applies to all religions in real life. He says in the interview that he isn't a believer in any kind of faith and therefore was unable to see things from a believer's perspective, something his staff helped him with.

Could be, but I wager if Elizabeth was more Jesus-like figure, it might have been worse for some, ie. a female saviour with human wants and flaws. Or perhaps a more far-fetched idea, that Lady Comstock was more like virgin Mary in the beginning. =)

EDIT: The art book, that came with the premium edition mentions Siren, instead of ghost of Lady Comstock, so they might have been two different characters originally. Although, I guess naming her Lady Comstock in the book could be considered a spoiler.

From the book:

The Siren taps into a very real turn-of-the-century social trend of séances and mediums, as many believed that the spirit world was only barely separated from the physical world. The ghostly creature raises other enemies from the dead to fight again, presenting a unique tactical challenge.

 

[HueyFreeman]

Did they ever explain why vigors didn't cause people to become splicers?

This is my one complaint about the world - literally the only one - that vigors are pretty much left unexplained, outside of I think an off handed voxaphone comment by fink

 

[BertramCooper]

Don't take that final scene too literally. It's supposed to symbolize a combined timeline, where all possible Elizabeths appear on screen and drown all Comstocks, therefore eliminating the possibility of Booker accepting.

I kind of feel like Levine should have limited himself to two parallel dimensions instead of an infinite number of dimensions. I think he could have crafted an ending that wasn't nearly as sloppy.

I'm not saying it was a bad ending - in fact, it was pretty awesome - but it's really messy.

This is my one complaint about the world - literally the only one - that vigors are pretty much left unexplained, outside of I think an off handed voxaphone comment by fink

That's probably my biggest complaint about the game - the vigors don't really fit into the game world. They don't feel organic to it the way they did in Bioshock. Perhaps that's intentional, since Fink used tears to steal the technology from a different dimension/time, but I still feel it could have been integrated better.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I kind of feel like Levine should have limited himself to two parallel dimensions instead of an infinite number of dimensions. I think he could have crafted an ending that wasn't nearly as sloppy.

I'm not saying it was a bad ending - in fact, it was pretty awesome - but it's really messy.



That's probably my biggest complaint about the game - the vigors don't really fit into the game world. They don't feel organic to it the way they did in Bioshock. Perhaps that's intentional, since Fink used tears to steal the technology from a different dimension/time, but I still feel it could have been integrated better.

However the actual concept of dimensions doesn't work that way. I also don't get what is so sloppy about it. Care to elaborate?

 

[HueyFreeman]

I kind of feel like Levine should have limited himself to two parallel dimensions instead of an infinite number of dimensions. I think he could have crafted an ending that wasn't nearly as sloppy.

I'm not saying it was a bad ending - in fact, it was pretty awesome - but it's really messy..

As i understand it, I think the point was not to destroy all bookers and comstocks, just all comstocks, thus taking bookers timeline back to the point where comstock was created and nullifying that timeline bifurcation. Other bookers could still exist (prior to that point), but no comstocks.

At the end of the day, there's no way to illustrate this kind of theory cleanly, by its very nature, it's not. That's why it hinges on there being constants between the worlds, sort of junction points as I understand it. If the baptism of booker is a junction point, no comstocks or Annas can exist downstream of it.

 

[Voice of Reason]

I kind of feel like Levine should have limited himself to two parallel dimensions instead of an infinite number of dimensions. I think he could have crafted an ending that wasn't nearly as sloppy.

I'm not saying it was a bad ending - in fact, it was pretty awesome - but it's really messy.

I have to agree, but anything regarding time travel is messy.

 

[Trigger]

However the actual concept of dimensions doesn't work that way. I also don't get what is so sloppy about it. Care to elaborate?

I think he means "messy" in the sense that it's not very easy ending to digest.

 

[kurahador]

I think he means "messy" in the sense that it's not very easy ending to digest.

That's because the subject in play is a larger than life thing, there's no easy way to go about it.

Fringe tv series does this 2 universe only, and it still ended up pretty silly and less imaginative.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I think he means "messy" in the sense that it's not very easy ending to digest.

Ah okay. I see what he's saying but I like endings that you think about and piece together. I never caught that Booker=Comstock thing but once you grasp that the story/ending was pretty easy to understand.

 

[BertramCooper]

However the actual concept of dimensions doesn't work that way. I also don't get what is so sloppy about it. Care to elaborate?

The entire concept of multiple dimensions is fantasy. You're free to set whatever rules you want.

And I think the messiness is illustrated by the "WHY DOES KILLING BOOKER AT BAPTISM STOP ALL VERSIONS OF COMSTOCK?" section in the OP. I'm not opposed to endings that are open to interpretation, but I get the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that it wasn't necessarily designed to be that way.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

The entire concept of multiple dimensions is fantasy. You're free to set whatever rules you want.

And I think the messiness is illustrated by the "WHY DOES KILLING BOOKER AT BAPTISM STOP ALL VERSIONS OF COMSTOCK?" section in the OP. I'm not opposed to endings that are open to interpretation, but I get the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that it wasn't necessarily designed to be that way.

The concept of multiple dimensions is rooted in science and theory though.

I think there is a clear ending but I think Ken definetly wanted people to think and theorize about the ending. That's why you have so many people going over every piece of dialogue and seemingly random posters piecing together evidence that supports what they think.

 

[Fjordson]

A significant portion of this video was well reasoned, worded very well and consisted of very valid complaints. I completely agree.

EDIT: I know most people here will probably have played the original Bioshock but just in case I'm going to spoiler the entire post since Bioshock was included with some of the PS3 versions of Infinite. So, if you haven't played the original, I highly advise you don't read the following.

Spoiler

What I feel is the biggest problem with Bioshock Infinite (plot-wise anyway; I don't have much interest in discussing gameplay errors or the scaling back that seemed to have occured) is in relation to the Voxophones. In Rapture, each Audio Diary tied characters' plotlines together, they were utilised in giving background to the city pre-war, during the war and after the war. Each Audio Diary was a plotline for that specific character but it all fed together in the development of the city and to assist the main plot. In Bioshock Infinite though, this doesn't really seem to be the case. Preston E Downs for example has his own storyline but it never really ties into the main plotline, the best it does is in showing how Daisy Fitzroy utilises children and how people may change their outlook. Constance Field (Feld?) is another example, she has a relevance in her name, and also in showing what some people may think of Elizabeth in Monument Island (and to some extent how young girls are brought up) but the plot just ended abruptly with no indication of what happened/will happen.

Diane McClintock's tale is one I'd put similar to these, it's a self contained story but it shows how people were brought into Atlas' influence. It also helps show the sudden outbreak of the riots, an introduction to Steinman, slight development of Ryan, development of Atlas and development of post-riot Rapture (highlighting the nature of the raids). There are other people with sole Audio Diaries (mostly done to give different perspectives of events) but those that reoccur, in general, have their own story that feeds into the main plot. And, even moreso, the characters we only met in Voxophones, we saw their fate; their plotlines had reached a conclusion. Suchong murdered by the Big Daddy, Diane dead on the broken table, Ryan's mistress killed, Bill McDonagh murdered. It's hard to display them all, and all the Voxophone's connections because most of them all interweave quite well (even the woman whose daughter became a Little Sister for example ties in with Suchong, Ryan and Atlas while having her own plotline concluding in her and her husband's suicide; Infinite's equivalent in Hadie Girth ties in with Monument Island [it helps suggest why Fink seemed to be popular though] and gives the Handyman a story but we never figure out what happens to her, her story doesn't conclude and).

While Bioshock Infinite has a significant number of Voxophones that are related to the main plot, most of the side ones have already branched out far earlier (for example, Daisy Fitzroy's branches out from the murder and charts how her views refine and while it develops her character and places an emphasis on Columbia's racist views it never really feeds back into the main plot; in order for it to do so we'd need another perspective that shows somebody joining up with the Vox or the hierarchy of the Vox), are usually confined to the faction or are inconsequential, only developing a singular character, a singular story and never concluding.

I don't know if I've explained what I'm trying to say well, but as the video said, Rapture was like it's own pocket universe, each part of the fiction combined to create an area that, within it's own internal logic, made sense. Infinite has some very well thought out stories that feed into the main plot and develop a few people simultaneously (particularly those that are tear-related and time-travel/multiverse-related such as the Lutece's, Comstock's and Lady Comstock's) but others just seem inconsequential and we don't end up with a world that seems to gel with each specific piece as we did in Rapture (yes, Rapture had a problem in revealing its hand too early and then almost ignoring the 'a man chooses a slave obeys' by making us follow Tenenbaum's orders; but the entire setting, the characters, the factions, they all were elaborated upon, we got an insight into everything). Perhaps I'm rambling by now, I apologise. Bioshock Infinite is a game I very much enjoyed and it did many things well (it's multiverse story is surprisingly tight compared to most others I've seen) but overall I think I still prefer the original (gameplay included in my choice; I went back to Bioshock and I still like the gameplay as I always have [I know many people don't however] and while I can see clearly that Bioshock Infinite has more refined combat, I don't think it's big enough to compensate for all of the other areas that, I feel, Bioshock is superior to Infinite).

EDIT: I guess, in short, the main problem I have with Infinite (story/plot/setting wise) is that I don't think each aspect ties in very well with each other. Independant, they're quite good, but as a whole I don't think they succeed as well as Rapture did and, as some have suggested, perhaps that's the point in resembling the duality of Booker but I think they could have still shown this duality while making each part fit in with one another better than had been done. All of this isn't to say I dislike Infinite, on the contrary I did indeed enjoy it.

Damn, I totally agree with you. I know exactly what you mean. I mentioned this in the other thread, about the Voxophones and some other background stuff about Columbia did not feel as well developed as the diaries in Rapture. I feel like I knew much more about Rapture and some of its important citizens by the end of Bioshock than I did about Columbia and its important citizens by the end of Infinite. I would have liked a lot more in that regard.

Also, no one in this game matches Andrew Ryan as an antagonist for me, he was so incredibly interesting. Comstock by the end of the game is pretty mindblowing because of his true identity, but as I was playing through Infinite I didn't find him nearly as compelling as Ryan. And just overall Rapture feels like fuller, richer universe than Columbia.

Oddly enough, with all that being said, I think I like Infinite slightly more (still love both of them). I loved Elizabeth and Booker as a duo and enjoyed seeing their personal story play out. Plus I had a lot of fun with the combat.

I get your complaint, though. I'm really hoping the DLC can fill in some of the blanks in regards to Columbia and some of its inhabitants.

 

[BertramCooper]

The concept of multiple dimensions is rooted in science and theory though.

I think there is a clear ending but I think Ken definetly wanted people to think and theorize about the ending. That's why you have so many people going over every piece of dialogue and seemingly random posters piecing together evidence that supports what they think.

Really, I don't think you even need to necessarily scrap the idea of multiple dimensions, but perhaps in this instance, just limit yourself to two that share a unique connection.

If it were me, I'd portray the Comstock baptism as a rare aberration in Booker's multiple existences - one that is then tied directly and distinctly to the dimension from which Comstock buys Anna.

 

[The One Who Knocks]

Comstock met Lucete and used his existing funds to help her finish her machine *before* having Columbia built, which is how he got fame and power in order to convince the government to fund Columbia.

EDIT: Never mind, I just realised that the date Columbia was founded is irrelevant as to whether the tears predate the New York on fire vision.
Is it said in the game the precise date that Columbia was founded?

"A City, Suspended
August the 10th, 1890
Location: Financial District
I had trapped the atom in mid-air. Colleagues called my Lutece Field quantum levitation, but in fact, it was nothing of the sort. Magicians levitate -- my atom simply failed to fall. If an atom could be suspended indefinitely, well -- why not an apple? If an apple, why not a city?"

This same atom was when she realised she could communicate through universes.

Whispers Through The Wall
October the 15th, 1893
Location: Grand Central Depot
The Lutece Field entangled my quantum atom with waves of light, allowing for safe measurement. Sound familiar, brother? That's because you were measuring precisely the same atom from a neighboring world. We used the universe as a telegraph. Switching the field on or off became dots and dashes. Dreadfully slow -- but now, you and I could whisper through the wall ...

So sometime between August 1890 and 1893 she developed the ability to create windows.

Jeremiah Fink
A Product Like Any Other
March the 27th, 1893
Location: Worker Induction Center
The truth is, I don't have a lot of time for all that prophecy nonsense. I tell you, belief is ... is just a commodity. And old Comstock, well, he does produce. But, like any tradesman, he's obliged to barter his product for the earthly ores. You see, one does not raise a barn on song alone. No sir! Why, that's Fink timber, a Fink hammer, and Fink's hand to swing it. He needs me -- lest he soil his own.

By March 1893 he had already established himself as a prophet (and that couldn't all be related to his vision of Columbia since that hadn't come through yet).

So the tears are developed sometime between August 1890 (she doesn't meet Comstock until at least 30th December 1890 due to Wounded Knee so it's more like 1891; she also had the technology ready to make into the tears, just not funding) and March 1893 (earliest mention of Comstock being a prophet). If we know when Columbia is founded, and it's founded after March 27th, then at least we know for a fact that the tears predate Columbia (allowing Comstock to build Columbia based upon a tear).

EDIT: In saying that, I do think I concur that the tears predate his prophecy but I think it's interesting to see if there's anything in the game that actually confirms this to be the case or if it is indeed left open to interpretation. Also, the bolded part makes complete sense and I can't believe something so simply had been overlooked until now. Comstock wouldn't need to be rich before meeting the Luteces (which is what I had assumed), he'd just need to make an extremely risky investment that ended up paying off tenfold.

EDIT: Perhaps an alternate way to go about it, do we know if Comstock attributed anything from the Lutece's tears, for certain, to the archangel? This would give a frame of reference at least.

 

[Dragon1893]

Or perhaps a more far-fetched idea, that Lady Comstock was more like virgin Mary in the beginning. =)

I was going to give that example. Before it was explained in the game I actually thought it was going there.

Damn, I totally agree with you. I know exactly what you mean. I mentioned this in the other thread, about the Voxophones and some other background stuff about Columbia did not feel as well developed as the diaries in Rapture. I feel like I knew much more about Rapture and some of its important citizens by the end of Bioshock than I did about Columbia and its important citizens by the end of Infinite. I would have liked a lot more in that regard.

Also, no one in this game matches Andrew Ryan as an antagonist for me, he was so incredibly interesting. Comstock by the end of the game is pretty mindblowing because of his true identity, but as I was playing through Infinite I didn't find him nearly as compelling as Ryan. And just overall Rapture feels like fuller, richer universe than Columbia.

Oddly enough, with all that being said, I think I like Infinite slightly more (still love both of them). I loved Elizabeth and Booker as a duo and enjoyed seeing their personal story play out. Plus I had a lot of fun with the combat.

I get your complaint, though. I'm really hoping the DLC can fill in some of the blanks in regards to Columbia and some of its inhabitants.

Like I said a few pages back, Infinite is more character driven. In the first game you have a mute protagonist and the game is carried by the setting and the antagonist.
Infinite is about Liz and Booker. Columbia takes center stage in the first hour but after you meet Liz it's all about them and whatever has a direct influence on their character arcs (Comstock, the Lutece, etc).
It's just a different focus, something I think was deliberate on Levine's part.

 

[Zeliard]

You guys should watch Primer if you want more twisty time travel fun. It's free on Netflix streaming. You may want to stay away from it though if you have a hard enough time understanding what happened in Infinite

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You guys should watch Primer if you want more twisty time travel fun. It's free on Netflix streaming. You may want to stay away from it though if you have a hard enough time understanding what happened in Infinite

I appreciated Infinite because I could actually get a grasp of how the story unfolded (like the Zero Escape series). I very much disliked Primer because it is so absurdly convoluted that, in the end, I just didn't care about what actually happened (not gonna read essays or huge ass charts to attempt to understand).

 

[Jest Chillin]

Could be, but I wager if Elizabeth was more Jesus-like figure, it might have been worse for some, ie. a female saviour with human wants and flaws. Or perhaps a more far-fetched idea, that Lady Comstock was more like virgin Mary in the beginning. =)

You mean Mary Magdalene. The Virgin Mary was Jesus mother, but was an honorable woman. Mary Magdalene was the former sinner who became a follower of Jesus and his closest friend.

I can see why you may want to compare them.. but they're really not all that similar other than having a sordid past.

Edit: Primer is a bit over-rated in that it's intentionally written to be confusing rather than written in a complex manner. The writer/director's goal was to make the viewer just as lost as the main characters were in keeping track of everything (to put the viewers in their shoes so to speak) but since it's a movie that meant leaving out huge sections of the story that are only vaguely explained so that it's pretty much impossible to follow without making a lot of guesses.

 

[Jarmel]

Also, no one in this game matches Andrew Ryan as an antagonist for me, he was so incredibly interesting. Comstock by the end of the game is pretty mindblowing because of his true identity, but as I was playing through Infinite I didn't find him nearly as compelling as Ryan. And just overall Rapture feels like fuller, richer universe than Columbia.

I think that was a limitation due to the villain they chose. Since they were going for the major twist at the end, your time spent with Comstock had to be limited, otherwise people would have figured it out much quicker.

 

[KungFucius]

Okay, just finished it.

So there are potentially an infinite number of Booker DeWitts and Zachary Comstocks, if I'm understanding the ending correctly.

So how does drowning the one Booker DeWitt that became our Zachary Comstock somehow erase all Zachary Comstocks?

because that was his origin. Getting baptized was the choice that created the universe with Comstock in it, and every choice thereafter created more Comstock universes.

 

[rvy]

Just finished the game. My brain is dying.

 

[Dragon1893]

You mean Mary Magdalene. The Virgin Mary was Jesus mother, but was an honorable woman. Mary Magdalene was the former sinner who became a follower of Jesus and his closest friend.

I can see why you may want to compare them.. but they're really not all that similar other than having a sordid past.

Nope, I think he means that Lady Comstock could've been Liz's mother in the same way the Virgin Mary was Jesus' mother. Like I said above, at one point in the game I also thought the story was going in that direction. Liz could've been born as a result of divine intervention. In the end it all came down to science and Liz's powers were explained with the cut finger but since we're speculating about the controversial parts that were changed that definitely feels like a possibility.
At one point we were told that Liz was only 1 week in the womb and that Comstock is sterile so it definitely felt like a possibility.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Another 100% +1 for this, great video. Ugh, I'd forgotten about the musical interlude. Worst was not being able to get out of it once it started despite my mashing. I felt violated.

I didn't see the video you reference, but is this about the part where he sits down and randomly plays a song out of nowhere and she sings along to it?

That was absolutely ridiculous and wrong on so many levels, even though the intentions behind it were probably very right.

 

[Melchiah]

You mean Mary Magdalene. The Virgin Mary was Jesus mother, but was an honorable woman. Mary Magdalene was the former sinner who became a follower of Jesus and his closest friend.

I can see why you may want to compare them.. but they're really not all that similar other than having a sordid past.

No, I meant virgin Mary, as Elizabeth wasn't conceived by the Comstocks, and one of the voxophones implied she was created by different means, which of course is proven wrong in the end. Mary Magdalene wouldn't probably drive the religious nuts, and she wasn't the mother of the prophesied saviour. But like I said, it's a far-fetched idea.

 

[Daft_Cat]

Well, I just beat it. My reaction was pretty much the same as Booker's.

 

[MormaPope]

Oh god please do not call the racist sky city subtle.

Actual racism in the real life 1912 wasn't subtle either.

 

[Dragon1893]

I didn't see the video you reference, but is this about the part where he sits down and randomly plays a song out of nowhere and she sings along to it?

That was absolutely ridiculous and wrong on so many levels, even though the intentions behind it were probably very right.

"Ridiculous and wrong on so many levels"? Really?

 

[Jarmel]

Actual racism in the real life 1912 wasn't subtle either.

Exactly. This is actually pretty close to reality in regards to the whole propaganda, eugenics, and racism bit. America has a somewhat shitty history in this regards.

 

[MormaPope]

"Ridiculous and wrong on so many levels"? Really?

People want more drug mules and the choice of whether or not to magic the slug out of them.

Exactly. This is actually pretty close to reality in regards to the whole propaganda, eugenics, and racism bit. America has a somewhat shitty history in this regards.

It could've been even darker, but the citizens of Columbia didn't seem heated enough for all out violence against minorities.

Probably because of the fact that minorities were put into a situation where they were slaves again or at the same level. Instead of there being a perception of what black and minority people are to society, they actually fulfilled a bigoted person's viewpoint.

 

[Jibbed]

Well, I just beat it. My reaction was pretty much the same as Booker's.

I love how they used some of the older Liz models in this scene.

Spoiler

Including the one with massive boobs on the left!

 

[Ingueferroque]

"Ridiculous and wrong on so many levels"? Really?

Yes, it was bad design. I was murdering people and setting them on fire, watching their skeletons turn to dust just seconds before we sat down to play a merry song and dance.

Being first-person, it is hard to distance yourself from your character. So it was very weird being forced to go through with the scene.

 

[Jibbed]

Yes, it was bad design. I was murdering people and setting them on fire, watching their skeletons turn to dust just seconds before we sat down to play a merry song and dance.

Being first-person, it is hard to distance yourself from your character. So it was very weird being forced to go through with the scene.

That scene was a nice break from the action (and beautifully done), but yeah it did throw me a bit too.

 

[MormaPope]

Yes, it was bad design. I was murdering people and setting them on fire, watching their skeletons turn to dust just seconds before we sat down to play a merry song and dance.

Being first-person, it is hard to distance yourself from your character. So it was very weird being forced to go through with the scene.

The people you're killing also thought it was worthy and meanwhile to keep a person locked up in a tower forever, while getting no holds barred science experiments done on her. They also defend and protect slave labor and borderline imprisonment of minorities and the Irish.

Real life soldiers like to play music to unwind, Booker and Elizabeth having a moment together isn't that ridiculous.

 

[WatTsu]

Human beings get tired, man. If Booker wants to sit down and strum out a hymn or Elizabeth wants to dance I'm not going to hold it against either of them.

Is it a little jarring? Sure. But at least the game isn't trying to tell us the characters are one thing while having us do another.

 

[Hero]

I didn't notice that the old model of Elizabeth, complete with ridiculous boobs, is in the back there. Nice touch.

 

[Zeliard]

I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and say they weren't planning on Elizabeth being Booker's daughter back when they were blatantly sexualizing her. The alternative would just be creepy.

 

[Jarmel]

I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and say they weren't planning on Elizabeth being Booker's daughter back when they were blatantly sexualizing her. The alternative would just be creepy.

I can only imagine someone was smirking while designing her. The meta implications are too delicious otherwise.

 

[Guevara]

I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and say they weren't planning on Elizabeth being Booker's daughter back when they were blatantly sexualizing her. The alternative would just be creepy.

I hope so too. But that just makes me wonder what the story was back then.

 

[Voice of Reason]

I hope so too. But that just makes me wonder what the story was back then.

Probably go with the more obvious "Liz is Comstock's wife."

 

[Kevitivity]

Full disclosure on my personal politics: I believe have two political parties here in the US; the Stupid one and the Dangerous one. I'm personally liberal on social issues and conservative on fiscal and defense issues…

Ken Levine has already come out to say that this game is NOT about the Tea Party and after playing the first couple of hours, I don't see a connection either.  The singular Tea Party platform (I'm not a member) is limited government - and if anything else, distrust of government. That's in stark contrast to the politician worshiping citizens of Colombia.  

Interestingly, the politician worshiping citizens of Colombia immediately reminded me of some of the crazy tendencies of the American left with regards to Obama worship.  Children taught to sing creepy indoctrination songs, mass-produced iconographic art pieces, etc. Just my two cents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9b0xr06qA

 

[Lord_Byron28]

The one thing I didn't like is how the demo they showed for E3 2011 really spoiled some good emotional scenes. Things like when the songbird captured her or her begging Booker to not let the songbird find her wouldve been more emotional had I not been thinking about the E3 2011 demo the entire time.

 

[Mogwai]

I love how they used some of the older Liz models in this scene.

Spoiler

Including the one with massive boobs on the left!

If only we could get pirate/gypsy Liz in Assassin's Creed 4.

 

[kurahador]

I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and say they weren't planning on Elizabeth being Booker's daughter back when they were blatantly sexualizing her. The alternative would just be creepy.

Could also be that they didn't finalized the story yet at that point.

 

[Trigger]

Interestingly, the politician worshiping citizens of Colombia immediately reminded me of some of the crazy tendencies of the American left with regards to Obama worship.  Children taught to sing creepy indoctrination songs, mass-produced iconographic art pieces, etc. Just my two cents.

Most people don't worship Obama. The two aren't anything alike.

 

[Melchiah]

I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and say they weren't planning on Elizabeth being Booker's daughter back when they were blatantly sexualizing her. The alternative would just be creepy.

Perhaps that's the character change Levine spoke about, and they stripped away all the family fun.

 

[Harry_Tequila]

I get the ending now, after a little bit of thought.

So there are infinite timelines involving Booker, his life could turn out any way possible. However, in one of those timelines he has the chance to get baptised and the two branches that result from his choice at that moment cause the events of Infinite.

So when he's killed before he gets to make that choice, it cuts that branch off at the root, meaning that it can go no further. However, all of the other infinite possibilities for his life still exist, just none that go down the baptism path. So he can still be father to Anna, like in the post credits scene, he just never has the opportunity to be baptised in that timeline.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I hope so too. But that just makes me wonder what the story was back then.

Probably had a lot more to do with Songbird. Looking back the song bird really drops out of the narrative for a while only to reappear towards the end. Unlike the E3 2011 demo where it seemed like an early-mid section you were still being hunted down by the songbird. I wonder at what point the vox populi and comstock part was added in. Comstock or any presence of him was absent for a long time. Vox populi, I'm just curious because as interesting as their arc is during the game when you think back on it, it was mostly fluff and wasn't really relevant to the story.

 

[Montresor]

I get the ending now, after a little bit of thought.

So there are infinite timelines involving Booker, his life could turn out any way possible. However, in one of those timelines he has the chance to get baptised and the two branches that result from his choice at that moment cause the events of Infinite.

So when he's killed before he gets to make that choice, it cuts that branch off at the root, meaning that it can go no further. However, all of the other infinite possibilities for his life still exist, just none that go down the baptism path. So he can still be father to Anna, like in the post credits scene, he just never has the opportunity to be baptised in that timeline.

GROAN. I immediately skipped the credits. When I play in 1999 mode I'll be sure to watch out for that.

 

[Trigger]

GROAN. I immediately skipped the credits. When I play in 1999 mode I'll be sure to watch out for that.

lol, it's nothing elaborate so you didn't miss much.