Incendiary
Banned
It might have worked better if there was more to it. But ending on that line, and then going straight to happy lockpicking Elizabeth was jarring and really bad.
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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
It might have worked better if there was more to it. But ending on that line, and then going straight to happy lockpicking Elizabeth was jarring and really bad.
Yeah, that line was out of place there for sure.
NullPointer
Member
Wow. Amazing and helpful OP. Cleared up some things for me, although I'd hold to their being a much stronger connection between Infinite and the Rapture Bioshocks. Constants and variables.
I loved my time in Columbia, and took every opportunity to slow walk through the environments, to stop and listen - to just try and take it all in. To scavenge for signs and markers and audio logs and overheard conversations, slowly unraveling the story while simultaneously aligning all the disparate pieces into a coherent whole. That entire process is what I'll remember fondly about Infinite.
The gameplay though was lacking, entirely across the board. Scavenging for items was never surprising or rewarding, save for the occasional gear item, but while unique, they didn't provide a sense of wonder or cement aspects of the world or story any better. Just felt like something I had to do to stay equipped. It was upkeep, maintenance so I could survive the next encounter and keep exploring.
Vigors were there, and powerful, but not thoughtful, and none seemed to have any non-combat uses. Like scavenging for money and equipment, the vigors were just there to allow me to survive the next combat encounter so I could keep exploring the world.
The non-story/exploration moments of previous Bioshocks that I loved:
* Setting up elaborate strategies to ambush Big Daddies, including multiple tactics, rigged to start things off, several rally and regroup points where I could use the environment for better offense of defense, alternate plan Bs to unleash if things got really hairy (and they always did). Double checking that everything was good, weapons were reloaded, powers were charged and ready go... breathe... OK, lets do this.
* Playing with Telekinesis and finding new and interesting ways to use it. And using it to grab that audio log or healing item trapped up in a vent near the ceiling.
Infinite provided me with none of these moments. Outside of the story/exploration nothing hooked me or got my brain buzzing or led to me to make a series of interesting choices. It never got any more engrossing than making the choice of turret/hook/power weapon or medkit. And after a while I didn't even have to think about expending my lock picks to open doors.
One bit of previous Bioshocks that always annoyed me was still to be found in Infinite though - this whole idea of stealth upgrading all the enemies about halfway through the game, forcing you to use the upgrade system to keep up with them. Instead of taking shots with a camera for research, here you just spend money to upgrade your stuff. There is no reward when you're playing catch up. Why is it that I was able to one-hit the human enemies in the beginning of the game, but I can whack the same class of enemy four times later on and they still keep coming at me? Thats nothing short of lame.
So yeah, the ideas here are great ones, and on a story/worldbuilding front I'm more excited than ever for whatever comes next. But on a gameplay front, this series needs to go back to the drawing board. Make every mechanic something that reinforces the world, something that you can tinker with and that helps you in combat and out of it - something that combines well with other mechanics, and never feels like busy work or maintenance.
There is artistry and genius here, but the "formula" is holding things back. I kept expecting the gameplay to open up - maybe after this door or this next area, but it never happened.
But it was nice to be able to see one of the "-shock" worlds while it was still in its heyday, and play a direct part in its downfall. Amazing stuff.
I loved my time in Columbia, and took every opportunity to slow walk through the environments, to stop and listen - to just try and take it all in. To scavenge for signs and markers and audio logs and overheard conversations, slowly unraveling the story while simultaneously aligning all the disparate pieces into a coherent whole. That entire process is what I'll remember fondly about Infinite.
The gameplay though was lacking, entirely across the board. Scavenging for items was never surprising or rewarding, save for the occasional gear item, but while unique, they didn't provide a sense of wonder or cement aspects of the world or story any better. Just felt like something I had to do to stay equipped. It was upkeep, maintenance so I could survive the next encounter and keep exploring.
Vigors were there, and powerful, but not thoughtful, and none seemed to have any non-combat uses. Like scavenging for money and equipment, the vigors were just there to allow me to survive the next combat encounter so I could keep exploring the world.
The non-story/exploration moments of previous Bioshocks that I loved:
* Setting up elaborate strategies to ambush Big Daddies, including multiple tactics, rigged to start things off, several rally and regroup points where I could use the environment for better offense of defense, alternate plan Bs to unleash if things got really hairy (and they always did). Double checking that everything was good, weapons were reloaded, powers were charged and ready go... breathe... OK, lets do this.
* Playing with Telekinesis and finding new and interesting ways to use it. And using it to grab that audio log or healing item trapped up in a vent near the ceiling.
Infinite provided me with none of these moments. Outside of the story/exploration nothing hooked me or got my brain buzzing or led to me to make a series of interesting choices. It never got any more engrossing than making the choice of turret/hook/power weapon or medkit. And after a while I didn't even have to think about expending my lock picks to open doors.
One bit of previous Bioshocks that always annoyed me was still to be found in Infinite though - this whole idea of stealth upgrading all the enemies about halfway through the game, forcing you to use the upgrade system to keep up with them. Instead of taking shots with a camera for research, here you just spend money to upgrade your stuff. There is no reward when you're playing catch up. Why is it that I was able to one-hit the human enemies in the beginning of the game, but I can whack the same class of enemy four times later on and they still keep coming at me? Thats nothing short of lame.
So yeah, the ideas here are great ones, and on a story/worldbuilding front I'm more excited than ever for whatever comes next. But on a gameplay front, this series needs to go back to the drawing board. Make every mechanic something that reinforces the world, something that you can tinker with and that helps you in combat and out of it - something that combines well with other mechanics, and never feels like busy work or maintenance.
There is artistry and genius here, but the "formula" is holding things back. I kept expecting the gameplay to open up - maybe after this door or this next area, but it never happened.
But it was nice to be able to see one of the "-shock" worlds while it was still in its heyday, and play a direct part in its downfall. Amazing stuff.
Whenever a person enters a different universe, the memories of the version of that person from that universe becomes superimposed on their own. Comstock didn't do any of the things Booker did, so he was trying to remember Anna and the Pinktertons, where his memories just did not exist.
I'm pretty sure Anna gets mentioned before this moment, which is what strikes me as odd.
I loved this game almost completely throughout...
My main problem with the story was the ending. The idea that the Comstock timeline was supposedly removed after killing Booker before the baptism... it doesn't make sense to me. The Luteces' go through the whole game setting up the idea of died, dies, will die... ie, every possibility is present at every moment and the apparent flow of time is simply illusory... so if this is the case then you can't say that the Comstock stuff hasn't happened because it has happened, is happening, and will happen.
Unless the idea is to stop it continuing to happen, by creating a loop which causes it to endlessly loop around and never get past a particular point.
Surely there are Comstock timelines where he isn't an asshole. Maybe there are Booker timelines where he is an asshole?
I dunno... I'm probably overthinking it, but it seemed like too much of a simplistic representation of the many worlds theory to leave me satisfied...
Maybe I'm in a timeline where I'm an asshole...
I'll shut up.
My main problem with the story was the ending. The idea that the Comstock timeline was supposedly removed after killing Booker before the baptism... it doesn't make sense to me. The Luteces' go through the whole game setting up the idea of died, dies, will die... ie, every possibility is present at every moment and the apparent flow of time is simply illusory... so if this is the case then you can't say that the Comstock stuff hasn't happened because it has happened, is happening, and will happen.
Unless the idea is to stop it continuing to happen, by creating a loop which causes it to endlessly loop around and never get past a particular point.
Surely there are Comstock timelines where he isn't an asshole. Maybe there are Booker timelines where he is an asshole?
I dunno... I'm probably overthinking it, but it seemed like too much of a simplistic representation of the many worlds theory to leave me satisfied...
Maybe I'm in a timeline where I'm an asshole...
I'll shut up.
I don't think he actually retains the memories of who Anna is though. As I said, Comstock's memories overwrote Booker's, and Comstock never had a baby. When Booker remembers "anna", he knows the name, but can't recall who it is. He can't recall being at the birth of an Anna, or having birthdays with an Anna...
Booker is always an asshole. That's a constant.
That's true, but the Luteces key objective is pretty much to prevent Columbia from ever existing, right? If that's right, they really don't care about timelines with a "nice Comstock" or a "virtuous Columbia". Their business is just with the nasty stuff.
In that case, you might be right when you say they're trying to create some sort of endless loop, thereby removing the possibility of Columbia from all timelines.
Questions:
The idea of the grandfather paradox. If the Luteces remove Columbia from infinite timelines, then technically they would have never lived on Columbia, meaning they wouldn't be able to remove Columbia from existence. Likewise, if Elizabeth kills pre-babtism Booker, then Elizabeth was never born, meaning she never killed pre-baptism Booker.
The only escape from this paradox is "split time-line theory", which supposes each Elizabeth is distinct, and wouldn't be harmed by "killing herself" or her father in another timeline...The game obviously adheres to this, which makes me wonder why the Elizabeths fade away in the end?
I've gone cross-eyed. Many tiny logistical questions, but perhaps Levine just wants us to embrace the paradoxes. Maybe we're not supposed to understand exactly how time and space work within the logic of the game. Maybe we're supposed to struggle to grasp it in the same way that the Luteces do.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
To clarify, the only worlds we care about as part of the overarching narrative are the ones where Comstock utilizes Columbia to further his agenda. According to the multiverse theory (as I understand it), every time any single decision is made, that forms a new universe. But that wouldn't make sense for a game narrative, as it would totally invalidate the importance of the story.
Due to the nature of Comstock (again, limited to the ones who have experienced things as we see them in Infinite) he will always attempt to utilize Columbia to create injustice, persecution, etc.
I do see your point about the oddity of the rules, though. Ken seems to play with the whole constant/variable portion of the universe by limiting our perception of the infinite nature of the universe to Elizabeth's portrayal of them without ever showing them directly, in order to allow for specific story points to be more ironclad.
Who said that all Comstock timelines lead to Columbia?
Also... with regards to your Columbia never existing idea, isn't there a paradox in that Bookers are repeatedly taken away from booker timelines by the Luteces... yet if the goal is to ultimately remove the possibility of a Columbia, then there would be no Columbia from which the Luteces would take these Bookers.
I don't fully understand the Luteces motivations. They recognize that every possible event has occured, is occuring and will occur... So surely they recognize that in there efforts to remove Columbia there is a possibility that they will fail...
It's a very complicated area... and I do think Levine approached it admirably... as a Story, it works.
The problem I guess I am having is can you really manipulate timelines the way the Luteces apparently try to? Is it even possible?
I totally understand that. Yeah.
I would never expect anybody to manage to wrap their head around infinity enough to present it accurately as part of a multi-verse based narrative. Bioshock Infinite's use of the theory totally works for its own narrative.
I guess I'm going a little off-topic and into multi-verse theory itself rather than keeping to discussion of the story.
Well, they did end up getting a time god on their side at the very end. I'm sure that helped.
Elizabeth could see different possibilities and traverse them...
Nobody ever said she could manipulate them.
In fact the opposite had been pretty well set up throughout the game with the Lutece encounters. They kept insisting that all possibilities have been, are, and will be... When they kept repeating lines of this form, they were reinforcing the idea that timeflow is illusory, and that infact the universe is static, with all points in time merely representing different points in higher dimensional space which all exist simultaneously...
That's how I understood it, anyway. And if that is how it is, then how can you change it?
Actually if you look into the audio diaries, the female Lutece believed what you said. The male actually believed that there could be a way to affect timelines so some didn't exist at all. And Elizabeth obviously has some type of power to manipulate the realities. The ending is kind of a metaphor for how she was drowning an infinite number of Booker's at the same time. That is something special.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Has anyone come up with an answer for what happen to OUR Elizabeth? Specifically I mean at the very end Booker says "your not my Elizabeth" or something like that, and she obviously is different in way. I get that there were other Elizabeth there as well, but writers do not just put dialogue and character changes in for no reason, and our specific liz we knew all game wasnt there. there has to be some reason Ken decided to put a different Elizabeth in there for the final scene and have booker say that. What happen to the Elizabeth we were with all game.
Also what is the chance the DLC will maybe let us play different variations of Booker's 123 attempts to rescue her? Allowing us to play a lot more different scenarios and maybe help tie into the end a bit more.
Also what is the chance the DLC will maybe let us play different variations of Booker's 123 attempts to rescue her? Allowing us to play a lot more different scenarios and maybe help tie into the end a bit more.
Voice of Reason
Banned
Do you wanna know how I got these scars?
NullPointer
Member
This game has the worst telescopes. What are they, x1 magnification?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Well, then the question that I would ask is if Booker/Comstock is dead, does the "original" Bioshock ever happen?
I'm just trying to reconcile the metatextual message about gameplay and agency from the first game with the message in the third game.
Well, talking about agency, I would say they are quite similar...
In that we have no agency. Right?
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I do like the concept that in a parallel timeline, a good man could be a Hitler-type, so that was cool.
DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED VIRTUE'S LAST REWARD:
DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED VIRTUE'S LAST REWARD:
So have people been comparing this game's narrative to VLR's? Seeing as it has the basically same spine, that parallel timelines can be controlled and that a man can basically be the villain in his own story from another timeline? It's funny how similar the two games are in when you think about it...
More spoilers that shouldn't be clicked unless you have played God's Nector.....I mean VLR:
Some people have mentioned the similarities, not a lot though. I am forced to assume that is because many people have still not experience the greatness which is a shame.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
They are terrible additions and whats more they are always in these places that show washed out textures or poorly put together geometry.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, but Infinite takes it the next step further by just saying all we really do in a video game is hold "up" on the left stick (or "W" on the keyboard) to move to the next checkpoint to see the next scripted sequence.
If the point is that playing games is nihilism and that players literally get nothing out of it - outside of the times where you are allowed to shoot people anyway - then it's like it's laughing at the people who freak out about "Would you kindly" in the original game.
I got the impression that Booker and Elizabeth were "just visiting" in the Rapture universe. I'm not sure anything specific about Comstock would influence Andrew Ryan deciding to build that city, nor does he seem to be knowledgeable about Columbia. Basically, I don't think there's any relationship between Booker and Andrew Ryan at all (though the theories that Anna will become Andrew in the post-credits scene are hilarious.)
Maybe we could make it analogous to comics. There's a DC universe, right, and a Marvel universe. They exist independently of each other and have multiple "worlds"/realities within them. There's nothing stopping the characters from traveling between them as fiction/commerce dictates - the Avengers and the Justice League have hung out several times. Yet Superman doing something in one universe won't affect what happens to Spider-Man in another. Yet, like the Bioshock multiverse, there are constants - superheroes, supervillains, power sets and archetypes, etc. - that happen no matter what, they just play out in different ways.
(Yes, I know that there are so many similarities because both companies like to liberally borrow from each other/rip each other off. Humor me.)
So Bioshock Infinite and Bioshock can both happen; the visit to Rapture was incidental (and fanservice-y) and a way to get rid of Songbird; getting rid of Comstock Booker doesn't keep Rapture from existing.
Just a thought. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.
Edit: Remember also that it's hinted that the tech for Handymen/Songbird is cribbed from Rapture. Closing off Comstock Booker's timeline keeps Columbia from developing that stuff but it doesn't affect the Rapture universe. It just makes it so Columbia can't peek in on it.
Edit: And another thing, it's kind of interesting how little of Columbia's cultural and technological output was self-generated, lifted instead from parallel realities and Rapture. Maybe Andrew Ryan had a point.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So one way to resolve this is that even though there are a multitude of parallel universes, inspired by probabilistic quantum models, that the "Booker" branch with Columbia is still somehow independent of the world of Rapture... meaning that, in theory, Elizabeth could technically show up in ANY universe and not just the ones that she is directly involved in.
Which means, assuming they had the rights to the franchise, they could have just showed up in the world of System Shock if they wanted to?
I think that's a pretty fair assumption, yes.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It just makes me wonder why connect the game to the original game at all then. lol
Arguably, they could have had them jump into the Halo-verse if they wanted the whole "a man (Master Chief), a girl (Cortana), and a lighthouse (the Halo)" motif to carry through. In fact, maybe it would have been more clever if they made a fake version of the Halo universe and had the characters walk through that instead of the intro of Rapture.
I dunno, I'm just wondering how much they thought about including the original game and the way it would inform both games to do so.
Well, then we're getting into the idea of the entirety of fiction acting as a metaverse and every book, movie, tv show, and game being a window into a parallel dimension...but that might be getting a bit far afield. It's certainly not a new idea, but I don't know if that was their intent. (Your idea is pretty amusing, though, and it would have been a really satirical and clever sequence. I'm not sure that's the tone they wanted to go for, though.)
Like I said, I don't know if my idea is good or makes sense, but it's how I'm reconciling everything for now.
NullPointer
Member
Yep. I think of it like the search for M-class worlds in Star Trek. There are plenty of other worlds out there, but M-class is what they're really after, and allows for the stories to take place.
So considering a universe of possibilities, with an infinite set of possibilities branching off of the choices of those possibilities, an explorer of reality spaces would find it handy to have certain aspects to each world that they could depend upon. Those certain constants, always to be found and relied upon, with so much else being left to variables and choice.
In that sense, all the -shocks are connected. They all have similarities in design and theme as they may be the same story told in different ways. Maybe even the same actors, just clothed in different masks, using different props, and seeded with their own memories to ground and motivate them.
elguerosinfe
Member
If you buy the season pass after finishing the game do you still get the bonus content? I want that extra stuff for my second playthrough!
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Well, taken to the logical extreme and its metatextual consequences, is the game saying that all video game players are suckers because all we do is pay 60 dollars for the same game over and over again? And I don't mean just BioShock, but Call of Duty, Halo, Assassin's Creed, etc.
I'd almost appreciate the honesty of that kind of contempt for the audience, if that was really what they were going for.
Oh, that's fair enough. Honestly, I'm still not sure how I feel about the ending in particular, so I'm just trying to hash it all out.
I mean, the fact that they have that silly tag at the end of the credits where you're thrown back to where it all begins with Anna completes the baptism motif, but it also sort of sullies the whole point of the sacrifice in the first place.
The story was pretty decent. I really liked how they explained the similarities between the Bioshock games, and it does a pretty good job toward explaining the similarities between Vigors and Plasmids, between the dual Lighthouse openings and managed to provide yet another commentary on the nature of game design much like the original Bioshock. Thematically, they tied that all together really well.
I did guess a lot of everything well before the end, but I didn't quite grasp the implications of it and how it'd sweep up even the original Bioshock game. So it did surprise me in that sense, as I was pretty sure I had figured everything out well before the end.
Also, regarding the opening post, I still want to see what Ken Levine says about that dying Songbird scream in the original Bioshock. But I'm not altogether disappointed by this videogame's narrative, which is more than I can say about the vast majority of videogames, so they should take pride in that.
I did guess a lot of everything well before the end, but I didn't quite grasp the implications of it and how it'd sweep up even the original Bioshock game. So it did surprise me in that sense, as I was pretty sure I had figured everything out well before the end.
Also, regarding the opening post, I still want to see what Ken Levine says about that dying Songbird scream in the original Bioshock. But I'm not altogether disappointed by this videogame's narrative, which is more than I can say about the vast majority of videogames, so they should take pride in that.
terrdactycalsrock
Member
I now Im revisiting a very old post. The Vox Populi are so violent because they feel like they have been treated so wrongly. When you're rising up against the people that did you wrong you're probably not going to show mercy. If you do then you're better than most people
It's not long, but it is pretty significant.
Booker wakes up in his PI office, and hears Anna crying the next room over, and goes "Anna?!" and runs to open the door to her room.
Here's my explanation of everything leading up to that point:
Liz could manipulate time-space because part of her (the tip of her pinky finger) was in one universe, while the rest of her was in another. It's like she's standing on the border between worlds, one foot on each side, able to see both sides.
To try and regulate this power, the siphon was created inside Monument Island, as a way to restrain her. Liz describes it as a "leash." Once the siphon is destroyed at the end of the game, she's "off the leash," and her power reaches its full potential. She can now see all of the infinite sets of timelines in the universe... including all of the ones in which Booker becomes Comstock.
To prevent Comstock from ever happening, Liz has to create a PARADOX, because the universe "does not like its peas mixed with its porridge," as Lutece put it -- or in other words, nature will correct any paradoxes by obliterating paradoxical timelines from existence.
So, Liz creates a paradox: She drowns Booker before his baptism. This creates a paradox because if Booker is dead, Booker can never become Comstock, and if Booker can never become Comstock, Comstock can never steal Liz, and if Liz is never stolen, Liz never receives her ability to traverse time-space and kill Booker in the first place.
The universe sees this and goes, "PARADOX!" And then obliterates each and every timeline where Booker becomes Comstock.
All that remains, are the timelines where Booker rejects baptism. What was once a "variable" -- an element that can change, in this case to accept or reject baptism -- is now a "constant," like the coin that always comes up heads when the Lutece twins meet Booker again at the Raffle Fair and ask him to flip the coin.
That's an important concept to understand. There are constants -- elements that always work out the same across all timelines -- and variables, or things that are different depending on the timeline. Elizabeth, by creating a paradox, forced the universe to take the "variable" of accepting/rejecting baptism, and turn it into the "constant" of rejection.
And so Booker, while still in debt, will be able to see his daughter grow up. And hopefully things will work out for the best.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Booker in his office and he walks into the nursery, but you don't see if anyone is inside.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
VIRTUES LAST REWARD SPOILERS:
I really like how both games weave the gamey concepts of dying, repetitively continuing, doing things differently in a play through, into the story as alternate timelines that you jumped into. I think it was a great way to explain multiple endings in VLR, and a way to explain a Vita Chamber-type ressurection in this game, as well as all those familiar echoes from the first BioShock.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Probably a dumb question, but the baptism being the branching point between the two timelines, is that just because it makes a memorable marking point to refer to the change, or does that baptism really like, change him in some huge way? I missed out on soooo many recordings.
Edit: never mind, was reading it way too literally.
Edit: never mind, was reading it way too literally.
rosaceadude2112
Member
That's not really what I said. I was just responding to your original claim that anything about the setting was subtle. The game immediately assaults you with how terrible the city is, leaving no room for discovery by the player. After the opening, you've pretty much seen it all. Every new area only reinforces the scant few ideas presented from the start.
If Infinite really wanted to say something about racism beyond "it's bad" it could start by not being set at a time when black people were literally being hanged from trees. Or it could let the racism creep up on you, as racism TODAY is a much more subtle, insidious thing. Maybe make parallels to the racist institutions of modern times(big example: the prison system) while painting them in that old-timey color in order to make them more apparent.
The way it handles themes of historical revisionism can still be seen as relevant to our times. The way it handles racism just reminds us of what things used to be like, while ignoring how they are now. I don't need anyone to tell me Jim Crow is bad.
petethepanda
Member
Has there been much talk on the significance of the pendant disappearing and possibly "our" Elizabeth not being there for the end?
RibbedHero
Member
Wikipedia worked for me, but this thread filled in any other gaps. Great OP.
I do believe... that is actually Elizabeth House...
thinking back... i dont think we're ever actually in comstock house, if you know what i mean.
but no i took those to be various individuals in some sort of rehab lockdown thing. i sorta missed the main thread of that building... the sleep... eat.. etc. just seems like a hospice mental ward type of thing.
Maybe in the scrapped version of the game, we spent more time in 1984? I feel like they used that year purposely, maybe there was a section of the game that had the same vibe as the book. Makes sense with the whole "we sleep here" "we eat here" etc.
wait... there were the 4 kiosks at the front... i think it was sinners... like greed and 3 others.
comstock groomed elizabeth and then she or him brought people in to be rehabbed of their sins. makes sense.
as odd as that location was, i cant wait to go back and dig for more meaning.
but yeah.. most likely somewhere on a whiteboard was "boys of silence... asylum... go"
comstock groomed elizabeth and then she or him brought people in to be rehabbed of their sins. makes sense.
as odd as that location was, i cant wait to go back and dig for more meaning.
but yeah.. most likely somewhere on a whiteboard was "boys of silence... asylum... go"