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[Jest Chillin]

Nope, I think he means that Lady Comstock could've been Liz's mother in the same way the Virgin Mary was Jesus' mother. Like I said above, at one point in the game I also thought the story was going in that direction. Liz could've been born as a result of divine intervention. In the end it all came down to science and Liz's powers were explained with the cut finger but since we're speculating about the controversial parts that were changed that definitely feels like a possibility.
At one point we were told that Liz was only 1 week in the womb and that Comstock is sterile so it definitely felt like a possibility.

No, I meant virgin Mary, as Elizabeth wasn't conceived by the Comstocks, and one of the voxophones implied she was created by different means, which of course is proven wrong in the end. Mary Magdalene wouldn't probably drive the religious nuts, and she wasn't the mother of the prophesied saviour. But like I said, it's a far-fetched idea.

I guess.. but it seems like a reach to be honest. I never once thought that that could be a possibility since the tone of the religion, like the patriotism, in the game was so blatantly incredulous. I couldn't see it being based in truth in any way. It seemed very obvious that it was based in the wild psychotic dreams of a zealot.

I sort of see where the idea could take root though. It's more of a connection than there was to my incorrect assumption that you meant Mary Magdalene.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I get the ending now, after a little bit of thought.

So there are infinite timelines involving Booker, his life could turn out any way possible. However, in one of those timelines he has the chance to get baptised and the two branches that result from his choice at that moment cause the events of Infinite.

So when he's killed before he gets to make that choice, it cuts that branch off at the root, meaning that it can go no further. However, all of the other infinite possibilities for his life still exist, just none that go down the baptism path. So he can still be father to Anna, like in the post credits scene, he just never has the opportunity to be baptised in that timeline.

Yup. The Baptism choice goes from being a variable to being a constant, in that he always ends up rejecting it, thus always staying as Booker Dewitt and never allowing Zachary Comstock to come into existence and thus having Anna never stolen and Anna never becoming Elizabeth.

 

[rosaceadude2112]

Actual racism in the real life 1912 wasn't subtle either.

Seems like yet another reason one shouldn't hold up Columbia as an example of subtlety in video game storytelling.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

One question, did anyone experience times where the plot development was revealled but the characters didn't react until much later. One example is I was riding the gondola to the Lady Comstock Airship and Booker tells Elizabeth the reason he's rescuing her is to wipe away his debt. She doesn't react or say anything. Then 5 minutes later at Lady Comstock's airship she's mad that you're not taking her to Paris and Booker explains again that you're juat doing it to wipe away the debt. Then she reacts shocked, starts crying and whacks Booker with a wrench.

Another time is during the hall of heroes, its revealled that Elizabeth is the Comstock's child but Slate heavily implies that it isn't true. Then at the Emporia, Booker is confused and acts surprised that Lady Comstock is Elizabeth's mother.

 

[Dragon1893]

Yes, it was bad design. I was murdering people and setting them on fire, watching their skeletons turn to dust just seconds before we sat down to play a merry song and dance.

Being first-person, it is hard to distance yourself from your character. So it was very weird being forced to go through with the scene.

Is it that hard to just enjoy that scene for what it is and stop over-analyzing things so much?

I guess.. but it seems like a reach to be honest. I never once thought that that could be a possibility since the tone of the religion, like the patriotism, in the game was so blatantly incredulous. I couldn't see it being based in truth in any way. It seemed very obvious that it was based in the wild psychotic dreams of a zealot.

I sort of see where the idea could take root though. It's more of a connection than there was to my incorrect assumption that you meant Mary Magdalene.

We're just speculating about the supposedly controversial stuff that was cut. Maybe Ken Levine will go into more detail about that someday.

 

[Melchiah]

I guess.. but it seems like a reach to be honest. I never once thought that that could be a possibility since the tone of the religion, like the patriotism, in the game was so blatantly incredulous. I couldn't see it being based in truth in any way. It seemed very obvious that it was based in the wild psychotic dreams of a zealot.

I sort of see where the idea could take root though. It's more of a connection than there was to my incorrect assumption that you meant Mary Magdalene.

We were discussing it from the context of which character Levine changed, in order not to hurt the feelings of the religious. Which is why Mary Magdalene didn't sound a good candidate for me. That being said, it isn't a bad idea out of that context, as according to a certain lore Jesus was married to her, and they had offspring (I'm not talking about Da Vinci Code, BTW), so you could draw some links from there to the Comstock couple.

 

[rosaceadude2112]

One question, did anyone experience times where the plot development was revealled but the characters didn't react until much later. One example is I was riding the gondola to the Lady Comstock Airship and Booker tells Elizabeth the reason he's rescuing her is to wipe away his debt. She doesn't react or say anything. Then 5 minutes later at Lady Comstock's airship she's mad that you're not taking her to Paris and Booker explains again that you're juat doing it to wipe away the debt. Then she reacts shocked, starts crying and whacks Booker with a wrench.

Another time is during the hall of heroes, its revealled that Elizabeth is the Comstock's child but Slate heavily implies that it isn't true. Then at the Emporia, Booker is confused and acts surprised that Lady Comstock is Elizabeth's mother.

Speaking of Hall of Heroes, I just wanna say that this:

Booker: You're Comstock's daughter.
Elizabeth: No, I can't be! I can't!
Booker: He wants you to follow in his footsteps.
Elizabeth: Well I want a puppy but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get one.

is an awful bit of dialogue.

 

[Montresor]

Speaking of Hall of Heroes, I just wanna say that this:

Booker: You're Comstock's daughter.
Elizabeth: No, I can't be! I can't!
Booker: He wants you to follow in his footsteps.
Elizabeth: Well I want a puppy but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get one.

is an awful bit of dialogue.

I didn't remember that conversation being delivered so badly. Why do you think it's awful? The last line shows Elizabeth simply being defiant against her guardian. In other words: "Whether I'm his daughter or not, I'm not following in his footsteps."

If you are saying the fourth line indicates Elizabeth is forgetting that one sentence ago she denied being Comstock's daughter, and that now without explanation she is accepting it, then I disagree.

 

[Zeliard]

"Fuck his footsteps."

 

[Voice of Reason]

I didn't remember that conversation being delivered so badly. Why do you think it's awful? The last line is a defiant "It's nice to want things, but he won't get it" towards Comstock. As in "Whether I'm his daughter or not, I'm not following in his footsteps."

If you are saying the fourth line indicates Elizabeth is forgetting that one sentence ago, she denied being Comstock's daughter, and that now she is accepting it, and saying she will now be a rebellious daughter, then I disagree.

I think he understands what it means, it's just a very out of place analogy.

 

[rosaceadude2112]

Hitler wants you to gas the jews.

Well hitler can EAT POOP for all i care!!

 

[Melchiah]

I think he understands what it means, it's just a very out of place analogy.

It did make me smile though.

Hitler wants you to gas the jews.

Well hitler can EAT POOP for all i care!!

And that made me laugh.

 

[MNC]

Okay, just finished it.

So there are potentially an infinite number of Booker DeWitts and Zachary Comstocks, if I'm understanding the ending correctly.

So how does drowning the one Booker DeWitt that became our Zachary Comstock somehow erase all Zachary Comstocks?

You're not drowning one booker, you're drowning the booker that is going to take the baptism. So instead of eliminating one of the two branches (Comstock/Booker) you're eliminiating the root.

 

[Montresor]

Okay, I understand. I wasn't saying rosaceadude didn't understand the line. I was only wondering if he thought Elizabeth was purposely forgetting dialogue for dramatic effect, like the other poster suggested with his examples.

One example is I was riding the gondola to the Lady Comstock Airship and Booker tells Elizabeth the reason he's rescuing her is to wipe away his debt. She doesn't react or say anything. Then 5 minutes later at Lady Comstock's airship she's mad that you're not taking her to Paris and Booker explains again that you're juat doing it to wipe away the debt. Then she reacts shocked, starts crying and whacks Booker with a wrench.

 

[DatDude]

I think alot of people don't realize how much of a "step forward" this is for Levine.

System Shock 2, and Bioshock were games about being a historian. Discovering the past in a shattered present. Being a dective of sorts.

What Levine did with Infinite was an entirely bold and new approach for him. Surely, he could've done a Bioshock in the clouds part 2. Having the vox poppuli rebellion already occur, and have a wasted Columbia lay in ruins for us to discover. But no. He chose to do something new, something different, a challenge. He created a city that was still breathing and was in it's hey day.

Also let's not forget about Elizabeth. Levine mentioned hundreds of times how most of the dev team wanted to cut her since she was an incredible challenge, and again, I applaud him for that as well, since he easily could have done a silent protagonist, and just have Elizabeth someone we talk to over the radio.

Levine stepped out of his comfort zone with Infinite. He tackled something new, and challenging that he never attempted before, and I applaud him for that. Is there room for improvement? Light years worth. But I only imagine he'll take the lessons he learned from Infinite and will only improve this formula (if he chooses so) further with his future titles.

 

[StevePharma]

Okay, I understand. I wasn't saying rosaceadude didn't understand the line. I was only wondering if he thought Elizabeth was purposely forgetting dialogue for dramatic effect, like the other poster suggested with his examples.

Better example for me was checking out her mom's tomb without any reaction because I walked the other way first before triggering the story sequence that let's you go there. You can actually see the body through the bars in the crypt. I thought my game bugged at first.

 

[Melchiah]

I think alot of people don't realize how much of a "step forward" this is for Levine.

System Shock 2, and Bioshock were games about being a historian. Discovering the past in a shattered present. Being a dective of sorts.

What Levine did with Infinite was an entirely bold and new approach for him. Surely, he could've done a Bioshock in the clouds part 2. Having the vox poppuli rebellion already occur, and have a wasted Columbia lay in ruins for us to discover. But no. He chose to do something new, something different, a challenge. He created a city that was still breathing and was in it's hey day.

Also let's not forget about Elizabeth. Levine mentioned hundreds of times how most of the dev team wanted to cut her since she was an incredible challenge, and again, I applaud him for that as well, since he easily could have done a silent protagonist, and just have Elizabeth someone we talk to over the radio.

Levine stepped out of his comfort zone with Infinite. He tackled something new, and challenging that he never attempted before, and I applaud him for that. Is there room for improvement? Light years worth. But I only imagine he'll take the lessons he learned from Infinite and will only improve this formula (if he chooses so) further with his future titles.

Agreed, but I kinda wish he'd leave the twist endings to rest for a while, as they're becoming a bit too predictable.


EDIT:

Better example for me was checking out her mom's tomb without any reaction because I walked the other way first before triggering the story sequence that let's you go there. You can actually see the body through the bars in the crypt. I thought my game bugged at first.

The same happened to me, and I think they shouldn't have let you open all those three doors simultaneously. Walking through a wrong door lead you to parts of Columbia, where the story hadn't yet started to roll. It did break the immersion a bit.

EDIT.2: We're, or at least I am, conditioned to first check the optional places, before they're locked after choosing to follow the main quest. Which is why I didn't follow the arrows, before checking every other place first. How could the player know, that in this particular game the opposite of the norm applies.

 

[Future]

You're not drowning one booker, you're drowning the booker that is going to take the baptism. So instead of eliminating one of the two branches (Comstock/Booker) you're eliminiating the root.

That part did confuse me a little. Since you are the booker that already rejected the baptism, how does killing you do anything. I guess her time warp stuff not only put you in the timeline, but turned you into the version of the booker that had to make the choice. I thought you would have simply seen that booker, similar to how you saw alternate booker walking with alternate Elizabeth at the light tower

 

[plutoknight]

Speaking of Hall of Heroes, I just wanna say that this:

Booker: You're Comstock's daughter.
Elizabeth: No, I can't be! I can't!
Booker: He wants you to follow in his footsteps.
Elizabeth: Well I want a puppy but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get one.

is an awful bit of dialogue.

That was the worst line in the game IMO.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Speaking of Hall of Heroes, I just wanna say that this:

Booker: You're Comstock's daughter.
Elizabeth: No, I can't be! I can't!
Booker: He wants you to follow in his footsteps.
Elizabeth: Well I want a puppy but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get one.

is an awful bit of dialogue.

And the animation Elizabeth does to that last line is lol

Her canned animations like in the elevator listening to Fink or dancing on the beach are wonderful, but sometimes the "in-gameplay" ones look pretty unconvincing, like here

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Anyone have a good strategy for protecting the core of the airship on hard? I'm getting destroyed.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Anyone have a good strategy for protecting the core of the airship on hard? I'm getting destroyed.

Be fast with getting Songbird to attack the ships, absolutely MUST use the tracks to travel quickly around the ship, and absolutely must get behind the patriots to shoot them in the back to kill em fast saving your ammo for the normal guys.

It's helps if you posses the rocket shooting normal guys since they can do a lot of damage for you and they'll off themselves afterwards.

 

[Daft_Cat]

Speaking of Hall of Heroes, I just wanna say that this:

Booker: You're Comstock's daughter.
Elizabeth: No, I can't be! I can't!
Booker: He wants you to follow in his footsteps.
Elizabeth: Well I want a puppy but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get one.

is an awful bit of dialogue.

I thought that was great. I laughed. It's exactly the sort of silly thing a 19 year old girl would say. Not everything has to be poetic and morose.

 

[Future]

Anyone have a good strategy for protecting the core of the airship on hard? I'm getting destroyed.

Word on the street is use the bird to protect the core (shorter COOLDOWN if it doesn't take out a gun ship). Use rockets to damage the gunships

Haven't tried myself though. That fight is making me dread playing on hard

 

[DarkKyo]

Just playe through that part a second time last night and cringed

Sadly most if not all the cringe-worthy lines in this game come from Elizabeth

The ones that stand out most to me are..

1) When she constantly reminds you she's been locked up forever so she has some learned skill.. "I had a lot of time so I learned lockpicking .... being locked up for so long you have time to read. So I learned physics and such things" lol

2) When she is screaming at Lady Comstock about "a version of you in my mind"

Booker had only one line that made me half-cringe early on. When he sees Elizabeth open a portal for the first time in front of her painting and he's like "it's got nothing to do with the job at hand". First of all that is kind of untrue -- I mean he's about to rescue this thing marked SPECIMEN everywhere in the tower and he should be able to immediately piece together why she is locked up(she is dangerous/powerful). Of course it has to do with the job at hand! Second of all he is not amazed enough at the fact that she can open dimensional rifts. He shrugs it off like it's some sort of mere special skill like juggling or something.

Thankfully most of the dialogue is great.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Don't use rockets to damage the airships. Just infiltrate the zeppelins via skyrails, take down the Patriots and other guys inside and just melee the zeppelin's circuitry. Same with airship, without the circuitry part.

 

[Zeliard]

I just used Songbird to fuck everything up on 1999 and beat that battle on my first attempt.

 

[rosaceadude2112]

Sadly most if not all the cringe-worthy lines in this game come from Elizabeth

The ones that stand out most to me are..

1) When she constantly reminds you she's been locked up forever so she has some learned skill.. "I had a lot of time so I learned lockpicking .... being locked up for so long you have time to read. So I learned physics and such things" lol

2) When she is screaming at Lady Comstock about "a version of you in my mind"

Booker had only one line that made me half-cringe early on. When he sees Elizabeth open a portal for the first time in front of her painting and he's like "it's got nothing to do with the job at hand". First of all that is kind of untrue -- I mean he's about to rescue this thing marked SPECIMEN everywhere in the tower and he should be able to immediately piece together why she is locked up(she is dangerous/powerful). Of course it has to do with the job at hand! Second of all he is not amazed enough at the fact that she can open dimensional rifts. He shrugs it off like it's some sort of mere special skill like juggling or something.

Thankfully most of the dialogue is great.

There's gonna be a revolution JUST LIKE LES MISERABLES

 

[GillianSeed79]

So, if I were a betting man, I'd be willing to wager that one of the DLC's in the season pass will be set in the period when Booker leads the Vox Populi rebellion and dies.

 

[SmithnCo]

Throw Return to Sender mines on the core. You can lay down a crapload of them.

 

[Trigger]

I don't think it ever occured to me that I could board the zeppelins on the last fight. I had Songbird do it while fought on the flagship.

No wonder I struggled.

 

[Jest Chillin]

There's gonna be a revolution JUST LIKE LES MISERABLES

That's not really a bad line. Had the movie not come out in the meantime it wouldn't seem bad at all. It fits with her being alone with nothing but a Library for entertainment. In fact, I'm surprised that she didn't relate more things that were happening to classic literature as it would've been her only point of reference for anything in her life.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I don't think it ever occured to me that I could board the zeppelins on the last fight. I had Songbird do it while fought on the flagship.

No wonder I struggled.

*mind blow* Wait, you can board the zeppelins? I just had Songbird go to town on them like most poeple.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I never got on the Zeppelins either. My strategy was to NEVER attack the ground and just let Songbird handle the Zeppelins, I would take care of the ground forces, lay down some return to Sender, upgraded Devil's Kiss, Blood to Salt, Handcannon/Shotgun...I loved the last fight >_>

 

[Jarmel]

Speaking of Hall of Heroes, I just wanna say that this:

Booker: You're Comstock's daughter.
Elizabeth: No, I can't be! I can't!
Booker: He wants you to follow in his footsteps.
Elizabeth: Well I want a puppy but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get one.

is an awful bit of dialogue.

I loved that bit.

 

[Zeliard]

I think some people didn't realize you could have Songbird land directly on the ship and destroy anything in the vicinity of the core (quite useful to take out Patriots). Shorter cooldown too.

 

[Tummi Gummi]

That's not really a bad line. Had the movie not come out in the meantime it wouldn't seem bad at all. It fits with her being alone with nothing but a Library for entertainment. In fact, I'm surprised that she didn't relate more things that were happening to classic literature as it would've been her only point of reference for anything in her life.

Imagine a reality where Infinite takes place in modern times, and Liz's only comfort is the internet. She spends the entire game regurgitating bb memes.

 

[HoJu]

There's gonna be a revolution JUST LIKE LES MISERABLES

This is just like one of my French novels!

 

[Trigger]

*mind blow* Wait, you can board the zeppelins? I just had Songbird go to town on them like most poeple.

It would seem so unless I'm misreading this post:

Don't use rockets to damage the airships. Just infiltrate the zeppelins via skyrails, take down the Patriots and other guys inside and just melee the zeppelin's circuitry. Same with airship, without the circuitry part.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Imagine a reality where Infinite takes place in modern times, and Liz's only comfort is the internet. She spends the entire game regurgitating bb memes.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I think some people didn't realize you could have Songbird land directly on the ship and destroy anything in the vicinity of the core (quite useful to take out Patriots). Shorter cooldown too.

Seemed like a waste to me given the zepplins do more damage and take more effect to kill yourself. I just used the shotty to one shot most of the ground forces, used the mind control vigor on the rocket guys and used a combo of return to sender + machine gun to the patriots gears. Beat it with over 50% health on the ships core.

Imagine a reality where Infinite takes place in modern times, and Liz's only comfort is the internet. She spends the entire game regurgitating bb memes.

And now I've pictured Elizabeth as Boxy or whatever her name was. I think that would've made me eject and snap my game disc having to deal with that all game.

 

[Voice of Reason]

*mind blow* Wait, you can board the zeppelins? I just had Songbird go to town on them like most poeple.

It makes everything so much easier if you board them.

 

[Zeliard]

Seemed like a waste to me given the zepplins do more damage and take more effect to kill yourself.

Should be offset by the shorter cooldown. I mostly sent the Songbird to attack the ships on 1999 when I wasn't doing so myself, but towards the end of the fight I had him land on my ship to take out a couple groups and it was quite helpful. One thing you can say about ol' Songbird - he is brutally efficient.

 

[SmithnCo]

The zeppelins are easier to take down yourself than the deck enemies, IMO. No danger really, besides maybe some airships around it.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Speaking of Hall of Heroes, I just wanna say that this:

Booker: You're Comstock's daughter.
Elizabeth: No, I can't be! I can't!
Booker: He wants you to follow in his footsteps.
Elizabeth: Well I want a puppy but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get one.

is an awful bit of dialogue.

Yeah that's the only piece of dialogue that made me cringe.

 

[Dragon1893]

I didn't know you could board the zeppelins either.

Regarding the dlc, we've been throwing around some good ideas but I don't see the gameplay potential in them. It will have to be something involving the Vox.

So, if I were a betting man, I'd be willing to wager that one of the DLC's in the season pass will be set in the period when Booker leads the Vox Populi rebellion and dies.

This seems likely. As much as I like the ideas I posted earlier from a story perspective I don't really see what you would actually be doing in them.

 

[Sorian]

I didn't know you could board the zeppelins either.

Regarding the dlc, we've been throwing around some good ideas but I don't see the gameplay potential in them. It will have to be something involving the Vox.



This seems likely. As much as I like the ideas I posted earlier from a story perspective I don't really see what you would actually be doing in them.

How about we say fuck all to the gameplay and flesh out that story where we can. I would love to just meander through dimensions as the Luteces learning all of the awesome things that they know. I'd like a fresh experience, the first hour of this game was amazing and I didn't need the slow descent into typical FPS bullshit.

 

[Dragon1893]

How about we say fuck all to the gameplay and flesh out that story where we can. I would love to just meander through dimensions as the Luteces learning all of the awesome things that they know. I'd like a fresh experience, the first hour of this game was amazing and I didn't need the slow descent into typical FPS bullshit.

Oh I would be all for it. Believe me. Being Elizabeth while she grows up in the tower, Fink while he creates the songbird, the Lutece like you mentioned, I just don't see something like that getting released.

 

[MNC]

Replaying the game, bookee gets a nosebleed around the time comstock talks to you when you head up an elevator to go to monument island. Can someone explain?

 

[MormaPope]

Seems like yet another reason one shouldn't hold up Columbia as an example of subtlety in video game storytelling.

So you want a realistic element of how America was in 1912 to be either fabricated or made up? What a bad argument.