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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
Well there might be some connection since the Bathysphere works for Booker when it should only work for people close to Andrew Ryan genetically.
MMBosstones86
Member
I don't think he 'replaces' the other Booker. In the Vox timeline, Booker is a Martyr and was killed...Daisy comments on this as well. Other than that, I don't think there really is any mention of the 'other' Elizabeth in the new timeline.
Technically, both would exist, right?
Calamari41
41 > 38
I think its kind of funny that in a game with infinite universes, people have their panties in a bunch over the fact that a revolution goes too far in one of these universes. They think its racist or something? If it helps you feel better, there is a universe where Daisy installs herself as a benevolent leader without killing a single person and brings about world peace. As someone said earlier, we go to the extreme violent universe because Elizabeth's tears are a form of wish fulfillment to an extent, and she is incredibly upset about how Finkton is being run. They make sure to say this in the loading screen during this chapter so you don't miss it.
Yes.
Yea, just choose the other option. I did that in the first playthrough.
MMBosstones86
Member
So I see there was some discussion the past few pages, sorry if this is a retread, but are there any meaningful choices in this game? Other than different reactions, none really 'matter' right?
Just surprising that they would opt for these types of 'meaningless choices' given the choices in the first games.
- Coin Flip
- Shoot / Dont Shoot Slate
- Bird / Cage Necklace
- Attendent
- Who to Throw ball at
Just surprising that they would opt for these types of 'meaningless choices' given the choices in the first games.
yea, he wanted death so I gave it to him the second time.
When does this happen in the story? I shot him the first time.
In the prison where Chen Lin was.
MMBosstones86
Member
Well, that's all part of the bigger story right? Constants and variables, the choices you can make in the game don't really make any difference because they're not a critical part of the loop.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I was thinking about this the second time through and its a pretty impressive accomplishment that through the whole game despite thinking Elizabeth is a great looking character I didn't feel a romantic connection between her and Booker but I also didn't feel a paternal one either it was just smack dab in the middle. Which is perfect for keeping you off track the narrative.
Even Booker tying up her corset is more tragic than anything cause you get to see just how much punishment they put her body through.
I'd just like to echo this sentiment. It's amazing how they handled the Booker-Elizabeth connection. They really had to walk a tightrope, but they made it seem so effortless that I couldn't tell what's what between those two until the very end.
UltimaPooh
Member
They just reinforce the ideas of choices versus cause and effect. It makes the player think they had a choice when they never actually did due to all the possible outcomes in the game.
I feel like trying to figure out the timelines and the time travel discussion does the game a big disservice. It's about how time is constant and more importantly it's about cause and effect much bigger and harder things to think about then time travel plots.
I have to say that that one sequence where you open the operating theater door in the Wardens office of Comstock House, turn around and see a Boy of Silence standing right behind you caused me to jump 2 feet off my couch.
A game hasn't gotten me that good since Resident Evil 4.
A game hasn't gotten me that good since Resident Evil 4.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I had read that a jump scare was in the game so the entire time I was freaked the hell out. I thought for sure while I was watching one of the many projectors something was going to scare me. I had no idea it would happen when it did and It got me good.
I took it as their traits and identities being so vastly different and separate that the universe let them exist in the same timeline without many complications... Since the only one who knows that Comstock is another Booker is Comstock himself. Like in quantum physics, reality depends a lot on observation. Booker and Elizabeth saw Chen Lin dead so part of his identity was dead in the second universe they swap to.
The execution of that is interesting since they actually lock your feet into place after you pull the lever so you can't sidestep and you're forced to turn around first. It is a really little thing but I did notice something was weird with the moment before turning. I can't really think of a better way to do it though.
There's no mention of an other Elizabeth because the Elizabeth that swaps into the universe becomes the Elizabeth of that universe. I think they just merge into the same person(much like the dead bodies merge with their still alive counterparts).
-BLITZ-
Member
More simple:
Booker doesn't take the Baptism -> remains Booker -> marries -> Elizabeth is being born -> Comstock takes Anna <---> Booker is killed before Baptism -> prevents Elizabeth of being born -> Comstock can't get Elizabeth -> Comstock doesn't exist in the first place cause Booker was killed before taking any of two choices.
And then Ken wants to make our heads to go nuts with, by extending the plot showing that Booker still exist with Anna even if they didn't want to show her in the crib. :/
Oh yes, now I'm thinking to some wicked conclusion of something like this:
Just don't kill me, is just an idea.
---------------------------------
As I understood, he was the single Booker left/remain in the hole universes of Comstocks the single one that was used by the Lutece twins for 122 times and by failing each time. In the plot, Booker and Elizabeth opens a tear to another universe where Chen Lin lives. Now in the first universe where you have arrived to Comstock Columbia, this one doesn't have Elizabeth anymore because she is with Booker now in the undead Chen Lin or in the third universe; story progress.
After destroying the Siphon, Elizabeth had send him back in time, but we don't know for sure to which universe now, as how the game shows, we took a random one, another city; another lighthouse; and by killing him before any of the two choices was made, that it will had made the entire plot and all the others Comstocks to not exist, Paradox takes place.
The reason is because in the first universe where we arrived to Comstock, he didn't have to offer his legacy to no one anymore since Elizabeth traveled with Booker in this second or third, meaning his feature never happend, as the city was just easily damaged or erased from existence. In that way, it will had made the single Booker who didn't took the Baptism to remain with Anna because the one that was killed by the three Elizabeth's was from the future or his gameplay progress, or his future self, brought back in time, without interfering with his real past or at least with his real universe and now Paradox takes place again.
From here the Lutece twins couldn't had any other Booker left to send back again, and Comstock couldn't had made the city, couldn't had gone to war over New York City, since there wasn't any Elizabeth to snatch. [she traveled] Paradox takes place more deeper.
This entire rupture of the timeline was the cause of the older Elizabeth all away at the beginning of the third universe who finally manage after 122 tries, preventing and reseting everything from ever happening. Paradox
Everything changed after she gave him the note in the third universe.
Other hints:
- We don't know for sure if this Booker that was killed was brought back in time or to his real universe before the young Booker reach the priest and choosed any of the path.
- Even so Comstock, witness the future of himself, we also know from one of his recordings that he was worried about his cancer and that he might die before Booker will come making Elizabeth very accessible to be taken back ( "I wouldn't take the train before I don't set my things right") and guess what, this exactly had happening. Therefore it makes his predictions to be correct, both of them even if what he saw in his future, had really happend, actually being witness the other futures of himself, with Elizabeth being catched and turned as a weapon in the third universe, but he also didn't know one thing for sure that after the experiments with the Syphon, Elizabeth had the full powers unlocked, having the ability to bring Booker into the future and giving him the note, reseting everything.
- The Elizabeth that manage to remain at the Wounded Knee was because of the Syphon, making her as the Lutece twins and also because Anna was still in the crib while Booker was still alive. Paradox occurs. Hua! :/
One thing I consistently noticed throughout the game was the use of hummingbirds, reinforced by the nickelodeon towards the end. I don't know if this symbol has been discussed in detail, but below is some information I found that clearly identifies why hummingbirds are used throughout Infinite.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Cheeky girl on the beach, with the her lover claiming he'll leave his wife for her, saying "I've never met a man who knows who he really is."
They don't replace each other, they just start to gain each others memories. Which does happen between Booker and Comstock (Hence why Booker has his "vision" of New York in flames)
The only choice I was disappointed didn't have any meaning was choosing which lighthouses to enter. You get the choice of two, twice and they both lead to identical places.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Wait, what's in this hidden room?
Just some gear I believe.
Made me wonder about in the ending how there could be multiple Elizabeths at the baptism, but in that case I guess considering she wasn't born yet at that point there would be no 'one' Elizabeth to replace.
Edit; re-watching some of their scenes on YouTube after having experienced the ending made me love the Luteces even more.
Oh wow, I missed that Voxophone somehow. Guess that clears that up.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Doesn't Elizabeth say something in the sea of lighthouses about how a Booker and Elizabeth are traveling through each and every applicable timeline, and they will all end up at the same place? You even see a pair walking across the way from you as you head to one of the lighthouses. That is how I got the final scene with the multiple Elizabeths: it was representative of each and every one from each and every timeline arriving at that moment of their timeline and killing Booker.
There was an Elizabeth in that timeline:
Booker just didn't get to her soon enough in that timeline. There's nothing to suggest that Elizabeth merged with her other self.
MMBosstones86
Member
thought the exact same thing. Completed the game and when the title came back : 'oooooooo sonofabitch'
The paintings in this game are amazing. I love the way they're textured and lit -- be sure to drag and drop the images in your URL to view them at full size and appreciate the detail:
I -love- the Lincoln one, even though I feel he is one of the greatest U.S. presidents of all time, and hardly think him a devil!
even Elizabeth's Paris painting had really nice textures for the paint.
Sola Scriptura
Member
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I think I found an interesting PC/console performance difference in the Wounded Knee section of the Hall of Heroes. When playing on PC, the diorama figures "jump" out at you as you near them, whereas in the console versions, the diorama figures are already out.
Perhaps a subtle difference due to a performance gap?
Perhaps a subtle difference due to a performance gap?
John Rabbit
Banned
like other's have said, it's not relevant to the specific story of Booker and Elizabeth.
however, my preferred thinking is that, given all the talk of constants, variables and rosalind's comment of "things are set motion", is that in some universes, the ideas and concepts developed by comstock (a city apart from the world, an idyllic thought-haven for people, etc) are picked up by andrew ryan which results in rapture.
it's not that comstock/booker = ryan or anything so concrete, but rather the concept that if all realities are possible, in some of them, comstock existed but the dream of columbia failed; however, andrew ryan did not.
I definitely remember some of the figures jumping out in the Xbox version.
MMBosstones86
Member
When I played, I saw no relation...just a way of tieing the 'genre' together (every universe has a city...every universe has a man). I do find it odd, however, that Booker could operate the Bathysphere...implying that there is some sort of connection to Ryan.
Of course, they could just say this occurred before the spheres were 'locked down' preventing anyone from using them
Sola Scriptura
Member
Strange. I wonder what triggers it? Went back to some Xbox version videos on YouTube and some of the figures were already out.
Or in one of the infinite universes there simply never was a genetic lock on the Bathyspheres.
UltimaPooh
Member
Why though? I don't remember Ryan mentioning that he is the only one who can control them in Bioshock.
I'm sure the moments happen right before our protagonist enters the scene because the other Bathysphere isn't there yet, and the door is unlocked before Liz unlocks it.
Or it's a universe in which the protagonist never shows up.
John Rabbit
Banned
well, accepting that all realities are possible, you can basically make up anything you want because there's nothing to say "that's impossible"; so it's possible they transported to a Rapture that didn't require the DNA signature.
i just like to think that in some realities, Rapture was inspired by the concept of Columbia. i understand the point of illustrating the thematic consistencies between the games, but it doesn't take that much more to make them a little more connected. it's just fascinating to look at the story of Bioshock and Rapture, and how (in some realities, perhaps the reality we experienced in the game) it would not have been possible without the events of Bioshock Infinite (i.e. a game from 2007 tells a story that only happens because of the events in a game from 2013).
I think there's a voice recording of an engineer in the original BioShock which overtly says that only Andrew Ryan and his inner circle can now control the bathyspheres - as well as genetic relatives.
Also, due to the "songbird death cry" you hear in the first game, I'd like to think that the Rapture Booker visits and the Rapture visited in the first game are one and the same.
Also, due to the "songbird death cry" you hear in the first game, I'd like to think that the Rapture Booker visits and the Rapture visited in the first game are one and the same.