We're putting all the bathyspheres in lockdown until further notice. Ryan had us install some kinda genetic device into the things so only Ryan and his inner circle will be able to use 'em without dispensation. But the boys tell me the keys are pretty unreliable. Sisters, cousins-anybody in the ballpark, genetically, will be able to come and go as they see fit.
are locked down, were locked down, will be locked down.
A lot of people are missing the fact that the bathyspheres were locked to Ryan's genetic key and to those of his inner circle.
Further, they don't even have to be closely related to that pool of people "Sisters, cousins anyone in the ballpark genetically will be able to come and go as they see fit."
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Bathysphere_Keys
So Booker could be Ryan, or related to Ryan, or one of Ryan's circle, or just related in any way to someone in Ryan's circle. Or it could simply be that the bathyspheres aren't locked down at this time.
I think Booker is a bathysphere.
Whoa, man. Whoa.
So, does anyone actually think that the "Songbird cry" sound in Bioshock 1 was intended to be Songbird dying? Seems really, really improbable that Irrational had such foresight. Just seems to be a cool aural coincidence to me.
IMO .... they just used sound effects from Bio1 to 'voice' Songbird in BioInf. Maybe more hindsight during BioInf development (hey we can use these sound effects and fuck with people, etc.) instead of foresight during Bio1 development.
I just have a hard time believing they really 'planned' this during Bio1 dev.
A lot of people are missing the fact that the bathyspheres were locked to Ryan's genetic key and to those of his inner circle.
Further, they don't even have to be closely related to that pool of people "Sisters, cousins anyone in the ballpark genetically will be able to come and go as they see fit."
http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Bathysphere_Keys
So Booker could be Ryan, or related to Ryan, or one of Ryan's circle, or just related in any way to someone in Ryan's circle. Or it could simply be that the bathyspheres aren't locked down at this time.
Booker just didn't get to her soon enough in that timeline. There's nothing to suggest that Elizabeth merged with her other self.
So how do you explain the fact that the dead from the previous universe are half-dead in the new universe? They were fine in their own universe(the one with the tools locked up) until Booker and Elizabeth observed them as dead in the previous universe and brought that perspective into the new universe. If the characters don't merge states then the dead/alive characters should have no reason to be half-dead or even remember their own deaths. They'd be absolutely fine with no recollection of themselves dying in another world. They only change from the "waves" of the other universe affecting them. Apply this logic to Booker and Elizabeth and they'd collapse onto themselves in the new universe. This is why Booker has memories of his other self leading the Vox.
Are you saying that another Elizabeth is around somewhere in Columbia 2 but the Elizabeth from the first universe never runs into her? Why would the other characters collapse onto themselves but not the main characters? If anything Elizabeth wouldn't be affected because she is a special case, though I submit to you that characters merge states as inferred by the many cases of the dead/alive misfits.
So how do you explain the fact that the dead from the previous universe are half-dead in the new universe? They were fine in their own universe(the one with the tools locked up) until Booker and Elizabeth observed them as dead in the previous universe and brought that perspective into the new universe. If the characters don't merge states then the dead/alive characters should have no reason to be half-dead or even remember their own deaths. They only change from the "waves" of the other universe affecting them. Apply this logic to Booker and Elizabeth and they'd collapse onto themselves in the new universe. This is why Booker has memories of his other self leading the Vox.
Are you saying that another Elizabeth is around somewhere in Columbia 2 but the Elizabeth from the first universe never runs into her? Why would the other characters collapse onto themselves but not the main characters?
So how do you explain the fact that the dead from the previous universe are half-dead in the new universe? They were fine in their own universe(the one with the tools locked up) until Booker and Elizabeth observed them as dead in the previous universe and brought that perspective into the new universe. If the characters don't merge states then the dead/alive characters should have no reason to be half-dead or even remember their own deaths. They'd be absolutely fine with no recollection of themselves dying in another world. They only change from the "waves" of the other universe affecting them. Apply this logic to Booker and Elizabeth and they'd collapse onto themselves in the new universe. This is why Booker has memories of his other self leading the Vox.
Are you saying that another Elizabeth is around somewhere in Columbia 2 but the Elizabeth from the first universe never runs into her? Why would the other characters collapse onto themselves but not the main characters? If anything Elizabeth wouldn't be affected because she is a special case, though I submit to you that characters merge states as inferred by the many cases of the dead/alive misfits.
Not sure about this.Entities themselves don't merge states, but their minds/memories apparently do.
Not sure about this.
What was up with the guards and Chen after going through the first major tear? They seemed to be physically in and out of reality, not just their memories.
but he does, that's why he's able to see Comstock's vision of NYC burning. however, given the rosalind voxaphone about how 'your traits become diminished', Comstock and Booker are more different than they are similar at the time of the game's events. this is why Booker experiences some of Comstock's visions as dreams instead of actual 'memories'.Like I said before, I think Comstock and Booker's identities/traits(think about how different there bodies alone are) are split enough so that they don't counteract each other. This is why Booker doesn't get Comstock's memories when he enters any of the universes, but immediately gets Vox Booker's memories.
The key distinction is death. The people suffering from the nosebleeds are suffering from a dissonance brought upon by remembering their deaths from other timelines. The guards at the police station in Shantytown, Chen Lin, and Our Booker all suffer from it. Simply being in the same timeline as a parallel you doesn't cause a merge. Otherwise Our Booker would've merged with Comstock the minute he was brought into the Columbia timeline by the Luteces.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. The main characters only suffer the dissonance when there is a death involved. Elizabeth never has one on screen at any point IIRC.
Like I said before, I think Comstock and Booker's identities/traits(think about how different there bodies alone are) are split enough so that they don't counteract each other. This is why Booker doesn't get Comstock's memories when he enters any of the universes, but immediately gets Vox Booker's memories.
Like I said before, I think Comstock and Booker's identities/traits(think about how different there bodies alone are) are split enough so that they don't counteract each other. This is why Booker doesn't get Comstock's memories when he enters any of the universes, but immediately gets Vox Booker's memories.
That'd be a very large hole, but proximity may indeed play a part, as these effects were generally seen near to the tears. Outside of reuniting with the ghost of Chen that is.perhaps they are pulled through the tear because of their proximity?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. The main characters only suffer the dissonance when there is a death involved. Elizabeth never has one on screen at any point IIRC.
That'd be a very large hole, but proximity may indeed play a part, as these effects were generally seen near to the tears. Outside of reuniting with the ghost of Chen that is.
Seems pretty lucky that nobody else managed to lose any body parts in all the tears and portal jumps that may have occurred over time. If a pinky can turn one clever girl into a world dominating hell beast, I can only imagine what other accidents may have caused.
Edit: Damnit, I wish this spoiler thread still started with the word SPOILER. I have to triple check my posts before submitting just to be sure I'm not posting to the regular Bioshock Infinite OT. In my tabs they both look the same.
Weren't they "killed" when their machine was sabotaged?There was no death involved in the Luteces story, yet the Male Lutece suffered the dissonance. His experience was the whole basis for their plan.
We're definitely deep into the land of the arbitrary rules of reality, but I can accept that ;PI think it's also implied that Liz's powers got stronger as she matured, so perhaps only a child could get powers this way due to the way they develop?
He doesn't even know he's 'the hero of the vox' until he sees the posters.
That'd be a very large hole, but proximity may indeed play a part, as these effects were generally seen near to the tears. Outside of reuniting with the ghost of Chen that is.
Ahh, good point. You don't see his ghostly visage until you truck it back to his workshop, but you're absolutely right about where his body had been/is/will be.chen's body is directly next to the tear when you go through. regardless of where he is in Columbia 2, his essence from Columbia 1 is near the tear, so at the moment they cross over, those two existences are merged.
Like I said before, I think Comstock and Booker's identities/traits(think about how different their bodies alone are) are split enough so that they don't counteract each other. This is why Booker doesn't get Comstock's memories when he enters any of the universes, but immediately gets Vox Booker's memories.
Elizabeth doesn't have that dissonance but it could just be because the other Elizabeth didn't die(or she's a special case).
There was no death involved in the Luteces story, yet the Male Lutece suffered the dissonance. His experience was the whole basis for their plan.
They also don't merge which disproves the notion that being in the same timeline as your parallel self causes a merge in the first place. I'm only disputing that Elizabeth from the A2 timeline doesn't appear because she merged with Our Liz. I don't think it's consistent with what the game showed us.
No. Comstock was the result of a baptism. There is no Comstock without it.If there are infinite universes, shouldn't there be Comstocks who never had a baptism to begin with?
If there are infinite universes, shouldn't there be Comstocks who never had a baptism to begin with?
(Booker is able to call either heads or tales on this section but the coin always lands on heads).
One thing I consistently noticed throughout the game was the use of hummingbirds, reinforced by the nickelodeon towards the end. I don't know if this symbol has been discussed in detail, but below is some information I found that clearly identifies why hummingbirds are used throughout Infinite.
Did they ever explain how Comstock was able to build this huge floating city so quickly?
I can't recall where it was said, but after gaining political influence, Comstock rallied the U.S. Congress to fund Columbia's creation. It then went on a goodwill tour around the world at the 1983 Chicago World Fair, and all was peachy until the Boxer Rebellion. Columbia shut it down and the the president took issue with it, so they seceded from the Union.Did they ever explain how Comstock was able to build this huge floating city so quickly?
So why exactly would DeWitt have changed his name to Comstock in the "accept baptism" timeline? Is it just chalked up to him wanting to leave his past behind and be born anew?
Also, did Comstock specifically ask Lutece to take him to an alternate reality in which he (Booker) had a child so that he could kidnap her?
Also, did Comstock specifically ask Lutece to take him to an alternate reality in which he (Booker) had a child so that he could kidnap her?
Did they ever explain how Comstock was able to build this huge floating city so quickly?
Woman's intuition
Woman's intuition
Edit: you motherfu
So why exactly would DeWitt have changed his name to Comstock in the "accept baptism" timeline? Is it just chalked up to him wanting to leave his past behind and be born anew?
Also, did Comstock specifically ask Lutece to take him to an alternate reality in which he (Booker) had a child so that he could kidnap her?
No. Comstock was the result of a baptism. There is no Comstock without it.
But if there are infinite possibilities. I can make up an infinite amount of possible scenarios, all which are likely to have happened. Unless there's some rules that I missed?
When Booker and Elizabeth walk through a couple tears mid-game, never to return, are we just to accept these moments as big plot holes? These bits bothered me to no end, but the plot keeps steamrolling forward without looking back so I was forced to just roll with them.
You're walking into ANOTHER WORLD :/ ... from the halfway point of the game through to the end you aren't even in the same Columbia you started in! Doesn't that mean there's some Columbia (Columbia Prime)... where Booker is sent on a mission to retrieve guns from Chen Lin, but then he just disappears, never to be seen again? Doesn't this also mean that in the "Chen Lin white wife" world there is another Elizabeth (and maybe booker) running around? And where is the other Elizabeth in the Vox Uprising/Booker martyr world?
I kept waiting for them to get back to the main Columbia... the one you spend the first half of the game in. But it's just gone for good.
The motivation of the characters doesn't even make sense, in these moments. "Oh no! Chen Lin's dead! Let's just tear into this other world to continue. I'm going to ASSUME (for some reason?) that in this world I still made a deal with Fitzroy... I guess?" They're LEAVING THEIR WORLD FOREVER. This should be a huge fucking deal for them, but they give it a moment's (poor) consideration before moving on.
I kept imagining them hopping into a new world, completing their mission and then Fitzroy saying "I have no idea what you're even talking about."