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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |

D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Did any of you guys see "The Art of BioShock Infinite"? Lots and lots of enemies not used. They could be awesome, but also change very much the game.

I'm not sure if I want to get it. I'm afraid I'll end up liking the game less for what it could've been but wasn't. The mere mention of a toy-maker boss fight makes me angry that we could've had a deeper backstory to Columbia and their treatment to children before they're apt to receive military propaganda.

She flashes black and white as if she is a tear.

I have the PS3 version and can say that she does appear to be as if she were a tear.

So what happened with this game?

It sounded like a nightmare during production and everyone was ripping on the pre-release footage and deeming it a failure. Then before I know it it comes out and the reviews are fantastic and everybody loves it.

Fergusson am God?

I'm not sure if Fergusson had much effect upon the game, he literally joined in the last months of development, although they could've been the most important months of all.

Shame he quit Irrational this month. Wonder what happened. Now you go and play the game, Hawks!
 

daemissary

Member
Maybe I'm misremembering this because I did a quick search and didn't see anything about it...but doesn't the scene at the end where all of the Elizabeths are standing above drowning you look really eerily similar to the ending to Bioshock 2 with Eleanor?
 

DatDude

Banned
Obviously my mistake... Im but a fool on a 90 page thread about it, with graphs and theories trying to to assemble a coherent tale. Yep, my bad.

what theories are you talking about? this is just discussion about various parts of the narrative. it's not like the ending is some giant mess that we had to glue together. It was all there if you paid enough attention.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Lost Weekend can be easily earned in Shantytown's bar. Load up the Shantytown chapter and then walk straight into the bar at the beginning of the level. You'll get an autosave as soon as you walk into the bar, so you can restart the checkpoint if you screw up.

The bar has plenty of alcohol. The table in the centre of the bar has about 5 patrons sitting there. Drink a bunch until you're drunk and then drop a Devil's Kiss trap in the middle of the table. The achievement should pop right away. If it doesn't, you can restart the checkpoint.

Nuts. There's no easy way to just start again from Shantytown, is there?
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I know Ken Levine was involved with Infinite and, of course, the original BioShock but does he consider BioShock 2 canonical to his version of BioShock? I know BioShock 2 should be considered canonical regardless, but I was just wondering what Levine thought about it.

Also, BioShock Infinite's ending is so satisfying enough that I can't wait to see more and more sequels within the BioShock universe. It explains away hundreds of possible storylines, making sense within the overall universe, but it also different gameplay and various other things in a potential sequel besides the three constants mentioned (a man, a light house, and a city).
 

Roto13

Member
So what happened with this game?

It sounded like a nightmare during production and everyone was ripping on the pre-release footage and deeming it a failure. Then before I know it it comes out and the reviews are fantastic and everybody loves it.

Fergusson am God?

The same thing that always happens. The internet bitches and moans about how terrible a game is going to be because they're stupidly negative and miserable and shitty and terrible, and then the game comes out and it's actually great. It seems to be happening more often this year than normal.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
I know Ken Levine was involved with Infinite and, of course, the original BioShock but does he consider BioShock 2 canonical to his version of BioShock? I know BioShock 2 should be considered canonical regardless, but I was just wondering what Levine thought about it.

Also, BioShock Infinite's ending is so satisfying enough that I can't wait to see more and more sequels within the BioShock universe. It explains away hundreds of possible storylines, making sense within the overall universe, but it also different gameplay and various other things in a potential sequel besides the three constants mentioned (a man, a light house, and a city).

I know! But the thing is, the way the story was written allows for further games to carry the Bioshock name and yet share nothing but a few constants between each other while changing the rest, allowing the devs to work in new ways, because of the idea of infinite universes.

But I would also like to see them doing something new. If that's what they want of course.
 

Salamando

Member
I'm on the PC version and when I go to load chapter, it's just all the checkpoint along the airship.

There's no scrollbar, but there's more checkpoints than what is presented. Use the up/down keys to go further back.

I know! But the thing is, the way the story was written allows for further games to carry the Bioshock name and yet share nothing but a few constants between each other while changing the rest, allowing the devs to work in new ways, because of the idea of infinite universes.

But I would also like to see them doing something new. If that's what they want of course.

Sometime in the future, a dev is cursing these constants. "How many ways can a lighthouse be used as the entry to a city?"
 

sflufan

Banned
So what happened with this game?

It sounded like a nightmare during production and everyone was ripping on the pre-release footage and deeming it a failure. Then before I know it it comes out and the reviews are fantastic and everybody loves it.

Fergusson am God?

Fergusson was a hatchet man brought in by 2K to bring some discipline to a project that was going off the (sky)rails. It was obviously a short-term contract and once the game shipped, his job was done.
 
Maybe I'm misremembering this because I did a quick search and didn't see anything about it...but doesn't the scene at the end where all of the Elizabeths are standing above drowning you look really eerily similar to the ending to Bioshock 2 with Eleanor?

It reminded me of the "good ending" of Bioshock 1
 

pargonta

Member
Sometime in the future, a dev is cursing these constants. "How many ways can a lighthouse be used as the entry to a city?"

it's definitely not a literal lighthouse.

anyway doorway, office boardroom, telephone booth, or public restroom would do.

i took lighthouse to mean, "door that character is drawn to".
edit: example, imagine 'close encounters of the third kind' as a bioshock game.
man has visions of the alien ship landing site. arrives, is abducted and is taken to the alien city.
 

Salamando

Member
it's definitely not a literal lighthouse.

anyway doorway, office boardroom, telephone booth, or public restroom would do.

i took lighthouse to mean, "door that character is drawn to".
edit: example, imagine 'close encounters of the third kind' as a bioshock game.
man has visions of the alien ship landing site. arrives, is abducted and is taken to the alien city.

Mostly just poking fun at the original comment that BI allowed for further Bioshock games 'cause of the idea of infinite universes. All that's needed for a Bioshock game is a town operating under an extremely corrupt ideal, possibly located in a place a town shouldn't be, and a heavy dose of science wonders that could easily be magic. There doesn't need to be a canon explanation linking the cities.
 
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Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Fergusson was a hatchet man brought in by 2K to bring some discipline to a project that was going off the (sky)rails. It was obviously a short-term contract and once the game shipped, his job was done.

He should've had a more permanent contract. 2K should have foreseen that this is not Irrational's last game and if they had problems developing the game, they might have problems doing the next one too. Lets hope they do well without Fergusson.
 

Montresor

Member
I really liked the propaganda posters in the early section of the game.

"Sing praise to the Songbird, for he protects the lamb."

"The False Shepherd seeks only to lead our lamb astray."

The "false shepherd" poster is really beautiful. I love how the lamb looks up uncertainly to her shepherd, clearly being lead away from her tower.
 

Gbraga

Member
Why did they capture Elizabeth if we didn't free her in that timeline? Am I missing something?

Unless Elizabeth and Booker meet in that universe and were also jumping through timelines, and they thought our Elizabeth was their Elizabeth, I guess that would explain it.
 

sflufan

Banned
He should've had a more permanent contract. 2K should have foreseen that this is not Irrational's last game and if they had problems developing the game, they might have problems doing the next one too. Lets hope they do well without Fergusson.

Considering how notoriously difficult Ken Levine is to work with, it's entirely possible that Fergusson didn't want to be around for any longer than that.
 
This was a really strange game.

Spoiler free discussion below:

I just beat it, and the first 2 hours of the game and the last 2 hours of the game are spectacular. But everything in between is just sort of boring filler and background noise.

The game had a ton of atmosphere at first that it seemed to lose as the game dragged on, and as a result the world wasn't very convincing...it quickly degenerates into waves of baddies in industrial locations.

EDIT: I got BioShock 2 thanks to Playstation Plus - is it worth playing? I enjoyed the original BioShock, but never felt the need to go back to rapture at the time to play BS2.
 

Roto13

Member
This was a really strange game.

Spoiler free discussion below:

I just beat it, and the first 2 hours of the game and the last 2 hours of the game are spectacular. But everything in between is just sort of boring filler and background noise.

The game had a ton of atmosphere at first that it seemed to lose as the game dragged on, and as a result the world wasn't very convincing...it quickly degenerates into waves of baddies in industrial locations.

EDIT: I got BioShock 2 thanks to Playstation Plus - is it worth playing? I enjoyed the original BioShock, but never felt the need to go back to rapture at the time to play BS2.

Yeah, it's worth playing. Won't leave the same impression the first game did, but it's good.
 
Like I said, I still feel dumb about it afterwards but a bit disappointed that the developers didn't make it more obvious that she was missing a part of her finger.

I'm pretty sure it's mentioned multiple times; primarily it's visually highlighted when you first speak to her [she reaches out to touch Booker's face to check if he's real].
 

D23

Member
just beat this just now, credits still rolling and i feel like i just got mindfuck by ken levine

wow

what a game

i need some time to process this

epic-jackie-chan-template.png

epic-jackie-chan-template.png


mind still full of mindfuck

i dont think ive ever experienced this kind of story telling on a video game before, wow.
masterpiece
 
Just finished it. The ending was a bit more convoluted than I was expecting, and overall the game has a little less exploration than I was expecting. Columbia just seems to fall apart around you pretty rapidly. Either way though it was amazing. The game just oozes atmosphere.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Just beated the game and the last 10 minutes were filled with mindfucks one after the other. I didn't realize until i read the OP that Booker and Comstock were the same person. I guess i was too mindfucked to pay attention to the last minute. :lol
 

Neiteio

Member
just beat this just now, credits still rolling and i feel like i just got mindfuck by ken levine

wow

what a game

i need some time to process this

epic-jackie-chan-template.png

epic-jackie-chan-template.png


mind still full of mindfuck

i dont think ive ever experienced this kind of story telling on a video game before, wow.
masterpiece
Now play 999 and take it to the next level.
 

D23

Member
its been a few hours since i beat it and i still cant stop thinking about this game story, usually this happens on book or movies but never a game. wow

any word on ken levine next game?
 

DarkKyo

Member
its been a few hours since i beat it and i still cant stop thinking about this game story, usually this happens on book or movies but never a game. wow

any word on ken levine next game?

Any news on that is probably years away... but we have DLC to look forward to. If you just beat it and can't stop thinking about it start another playthrough sometime! The story is still super enjoyable replaying it.
 

Neiteio

Member
Just ordered The Art of BioShock Infinite. Smart move? Ordered the Hyrule Historia alongside it, now that Zelda 3DS has rekindled my love of the series.
 

D23

Member
Any news on that is probably years away... but we have DLC to look forward to. If you just beat it and can't stop thinking about it start another playthrough sometime! The story is still super enjoyable replaying it.

oh thats awesome i totally forgot about the DLC!!

ill probably gonna play this game a lot, but i gotta few games on my backlog first
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
just beat this just now, credits still rolling and i feel like i just got mindfuck by ken levine

wow

what a game

i need some time to process this

epic-jackie-chan-template.png

epic-jackie-chan-template.png


mind still full of mindfuck

i dont think ive ever experienced this kind of story telling on a video game before, wow.
masterpiece

Now go watch Evangelion.
 

Aaron

Member
Watching the 10 minute trailer they released in 2010, most of the stuff ended up in the final game in one form or another, but this version of Columbia was actually prepared for Booker's arrival, including huge anti-aircraft cannons. With Comstock expecting the false prophet, I wish there had been more actual preparations in the final game, especially with how useless songbird turned out to be. Also, they should have left telekinesis in the game. Probably was taken out for being too Bioshock original, but it would have helped a lot since Elizabeth doesn't actually pick up anything.
 
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Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Watching the 10 minute trailer they released in 2010, most of the stuff ended up in the final game in one form or another, but this version of Columbia was actually prepared for Booker's arrival, including huge anti-aircraft cannons. With Comstock expecting the false prophet, I wish there had been more actual preparations in the final game, especially with how useless songbird turned out to be. Also, they should have left telekinesis in the game. Probably was taken out for being too Bioshock original, but it would have helped a lot since Elizabeth doesn't actually pick up anything.

Man, you have no idea how much I used Bucking Bronco thinking I could get something to fall from ledges. I was so disappointed when it was just using a tear. I really liked how Plasmids is BS1 worked to get things from the environment, but here, most of the stuff is really there in the environment or by tears.

Also, if you like the infinite universes thingy, it is said that each trailer was set in a different universe. Which kinda makes the game even more awesome. I think we'll see more of Songbird (the DLC that's supposed to cover him more) from another universe, probably from the tear that Elizabeth opened while in an elevator.
 
This was a really strange game.

Spoiler free discussion below:

I just beat it, and the first 2 hours of the game and the last 2 hours of the game are spectacular. But everything in between is just sort of boring filler and background noise.

The game had a ton of atmosphere at first that it seemed to lose as the game dragged on, and as a result the world wasn't very convincing...it quickly degenerates into waves of baddies in industrial locations.

EDIT: I got BioShock 2 thanks to Playstation Plus - is it worth playing? I enjoyed the original BioShock, but never felt the need to go back to rapture at the time to play BS2.

I am inclined to agree. Something about it just doesn't resonate as well as the middle of Bioshock did, mostly owing to the fact that the entire world falls apart around you for what seems like no reason at all. At first, it's the self-fulfilling prophecy of "he's the false prophet, lets all kill him" which brings the entire city to war, but later on, you go through a tear into a universe where the Vox were armed to the teeth and destroying the city. The problem is that feels purely like a coincidence, a byproduct of your (ultimately pointless) efforts to acquire an airship by bringing the gunsmith back alive.

Like Yahtzee points out in the ZP review, I couldn't help but keep saying to myself "why don't they just jump out of the city with a parachute?" The first and last couple hours are lathered with such transcendent tone, and tackling concepts that are so far out there, that having to ask these kinds of practical questions throughout the majority of the game feels wrong. I want to be focusing on the crazy plot, but instead I spend half the game in slums like it's Bioshock 2.5, this time with Jeremiah Fink as the evil businessman. It triesto shoehorn in Bioshock's working class uprising through the Vox Populi, but into a game that was about something much, MUCH bigger than a unionized rebellion against the man.

The ultimate loss is a proper explanation for... everything? Who are the Lutece's? Where did they come from? Why do they possess such command interdimensional travel? Did they create Elizabeth? How did they create Elizabeth? Why? Was their intention always to give her to Comstock? Why? So she could one day blow up the world? But again, WHY? Did Comstock use her to see the future? How could a simple religious man possibly comprehend what he was seeing? How and why did he create this gargantuan floating city? Was it so that Elizabeth could one day use it to destroy the world? How did he know that future would be the one to come to pass if an infinite number of futures exist? How did both Booker and Comstock end up in the same universe? Why did the Lutece's need Elizabeth if they were capable of creating the tears themselves with machines? Putting such a power into the hands of a human seems dangerous, so why would they risk it?

I could go on with these questions all day, but ultimately, much like Lost or Prometheus, it left me awestruck, but unsatisfied and confused in the extreme when it came to the nuts and bolts of the narrative. It strikes emotional highs, it has its big twist, and at times, the atmosphere is like no other game you'll ever experience, but it's more confusingly plotted and pieced together than probably anything I've ever experienced.
 

bremon

Member
I finished this game for the first time Monday (on Hard) and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'll probably take the time to play it again on 1999 mode. I didn't delve as deeply into using different vigor combinations as much as I'd like, so I think that will add some replay value. Reading this thread I can definitely say there is definitely more than one way to skin a cat, especially in regards to the varied ways different GAFfers took on the final fight on the ship. I stuck mostly to Murder of Crows and I didn't even realize that I didn't need to use Songbird to destroy the zeppelins.

I will say that I wish I had a recording of my facial expressions for the last 10 minutes of the game. My roommate walked in the room and saw what part I was at (he finished the game a couple of days before me) and just started laughing at the stunned look on my face.

This is one of few games where I'm actually looking forward to DLC.
 

mug

Member
Finally finished. A bit of a let down honestly. The game began and ended wonderfully. However it didn't seem to have the same solid pacing of the original.
 
The ultimate loss is a proper explanation for... everything? Who are the Lutece's? Where did they come from? Why do they possess such command interdimensional travel? Did they create Elizabeth? How did they create Elizabeth? Why? Was their intention always to give her to Comstock? Why? So she could one day blow up the world? But again, WHY? Did Comstock use her to see the future? How could a simple religious man possibly comprehend what he was seeing? How and why did he create this gargantuan floating city? Was it so that Elizabeth could one day use it to destroy the world? How did he know that future would be the one to come to pass if an infinite number of futures exist? How did both Booker and Comstock end up in the same universe? Why did the Lutece's need Elizabeth if they were capable of creating the tears themselves with machines? Putting such a power into the hands of a human seems dangerous, so why would they risk it?

I could go on with these questions all day, but ultimately, much like Lost or Prometheus, it left me awestruck, but unsatisfied and confused in the extreme when it came to the nuts and bolts of the narrative. It strikes emotional highs, it has its big twist, and at times, the atmosphere is like no other game you'll ever experience, but it's more confusingly plotted and pieced together than probably anything I've ever experienced.

I'm surprised you have so many questions after reading through this thread. Read through everything in the OP, and the vast majority of those questions will be answered.

These aren't answers plucked from thin air, it's all from information presented in the game.

I agree that the Vox stuff wasn't handled very well and wasn't really needed in this game, but all the other stuff is great and infinitely more satisfying than half-baked crap like Prometheus.
 

Neiteio

Member
The ultimate loss is a proper explanation for... everything? Who are the Lutece's? Where did they come from? Why do they possess such command interdimensional travel? Did they create Elizabeth? How did they create Elizabeth? Why? Was their intention always to give her to Comstock? Why? So she could one day blow up the world? But again, WHY? Did Comstock use her to see the future? How could a simple religious man possibly comprehend what he was seeing? How and why did he create this gargantuan floating city? Was it so that Elizabeth could one day use it to destroy the world? How did he know that future would be the one to come to pass if an infinite number of futures exist? How did both Booker and Comstock end up in the same universe? Why did the Lutece's need Elizabeth if they were capable of creating the tears themselves with machines? Putting such a power into the hands of a human seems dangerous, so why would they risk it?
Wow, did you even play the game? All of your questions are handily answered in the game and reiterated every which way in this thread.

In order of your questions: Rosalind Lutece is a quantum physicist who discovered how to suspend atoms mid-air, which is how the city floats; Robert Lutece is the same person as Rosalind, but from an alternate timeline; the only thing that separates them "is but a single chromosome," as Rosalind puts it. They performed the same space-time experiment from alternate worlds, eventually breaching space-time and bringing Robert over into Rosalind's timeline. They didn't "create" Elizabeth. If you beat the game, you'll see Elizabeth was stolen as a baby from one timeline and brought into another, and space-time itself severed her finger when the portal closed, splitting her between two worlds, and giving her command of the space in-between (the universe not liking "its peas mixed with its porridge," as Rosalind puts it). They gave the baby to Comstock so Comstock would continue funding their research; Comstock wanted the baby because he saw through a tear a future where Elizabeth brought about the destruction of the "Sodom Below," and so he needed Elizabeth to bring about that future. Comstock did not use Elizabeth to see the future; Comstock peeked through the tears that were already cropping up around Columbia as a side effect of the quantum meddling the Luteces used to suspend atoms mid-air and keep Columbia afloat in the first place. The city was created with U.S. funding; Comstock rallied Congress to fund Columbia for the Chicago World Fair. The Luteces brought Booker into Comstock's universe. Again, the Luteces did not need Elizabeth other than to appease Comstock. As for regulating Liz's power, they didn't fully understand it, which is why they were studying it (the Luteces being always in pursuit of science), and the siphon inside Monument Island was a "leash" (as the game put it) meant to constrain Elizabeth's powers so they wouldn't overwhelm her captors. When the siphon is destroyed, her abilities are restored 100 percent and she is able to fully see the space between worlds again.

Also, we've gone over at length how every part of the game really -does- have a point, thematic or otherwise. And about that "why not fly off with a parachute" complaint -- where would they get one, and how would they expect to safely land somewhere, let alone New York City or Paris?

You're trying too hard. The game makes a LOT of sense, especially for something that deals with time travel. Very well-done story.
 
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