There's so much more going on in that essay than simply a dichotomization of American history. And I'm not saying it should be taken as rote. Having said that, the American political system is dichotomous - does it really not make sense to analyze the game that way?
Regardless there's a lot of really interesting ideas he has about Infinite, that are entirely outside of the pure political analysis. Did you read the whole thing?
To stop beating around the bush; Bioshock Infinite is an indictment of modern conservative thought that glorifies an idealized American past that never existed, and does so to the detriment of America's future.
yeah, 1999 mode isn't fun for me without manual saving. I'll stick to hard.
Also the game is ok but not mindblowing. I vastly prefer Bioshock and System Shock 2 because of their more open nature and less combat-focused approach.
I'd agree that Infinite is about more than that, but I think that's a pretty inescapable conclusion from the themes the game presents. And I think he develops the idea much more than that statement indicates.
I'd love to hear how your thoughts differ though, for real.
Not sure if we should be spoiler tagging some of this... probably :b
A good few hours remain. I got stuck on a section that is coming up for you so my timeframe is all messed up, but I think a solid 3-4 hours should be left.
I am speechless over what I played in Bioshock Infinite. The narrative and themes covered in this game is beyond what anyone else in the industry can even dream of. My time in Columbia will stick with me for a very long time. Its not very often that we get a watershed moment like this in gaming. The medium has a lot to offer but never before have I played a game that stays true to being a "game" while tackling complex ideas and story. Thank you Irrational games. If you consider yourself a gamer at all you owe it to yourself to give Bioshock Infinite your time.
like others have said next gen really hit me when I played Bioshock on 360 in 2007 and now in 2013 Bioshock Infinite is the perfect goodbye/love letter for this generation.
even the themes covered in this game seem appropriate.
The penalty for dying in 1999 is substantially harsher. It isn't just the money - when you die in 1999, enemies are reverted to full health. Get a certain boss down to literally a millimeter's worth of health, and you die, they go back to full.
Thanks to the guys in the spoiler thread for putting the pieces together using timelines.
The game definitely had a great story, but it didn't come across as such to me during the game. (Maybe it's coz of all the shooting I had to do, lol)
I'm disappointed with Elizabeth though. She's supposed to be this 'best AI companion/character ever', but outside of cutscenes or the rare moments when she talks, she didn't feel alive to me.
For instance, when you entered a male washroom and she had a reaction for that. I wanted more of those.
Sadly, I didn't find anymore after that
And whatever reactions she has to objects in the world soon amounted to nothing because everything was the same.
I still think games like Ico, Prince of Persia and MGS3 did the "lifelike AI companion" better.
I'd agree that Infinite is about more than that, but I think that's a pretty inescapable conclusion from the themes the game presents. And I think he develops the idea much more than that statement indicates.
I'd love to hear how your thoughts differ though, for real.
Not sure if we should be spoiler tagging some of this... probably :b
I'm at work so I can't elaborate on this as much as I'd like, but I think that the words "Modern Conservatism" make it too easy to assign "blame" on one particular group of people, and it can come off as too dismissive.
Like it or not, Protestantism and Evangelism have been some of the most profound agents for change in U.S. history.
Is anyone using the default PC controls and having a lot of trouble with melee? I'm beggining to think there is something funky going on with my keyboard. I'm having very little success with melee finishers, even with the gear equipped that supposedly makes it easier. Holding down 'v' works maybe 20% of the time it seems.
Well Amazon emailed me over the weekend saying that the shipping date changed from the 11th. It says it will be delivered tomorrrow but tracking says its arriving today. Nice suprise.
I'm at work so I can't elaborate on this as much as I'd like, but I think that the words "Modern Conservatism" make it too easy to assign "blame" on one particular group of people, and it can come off as too dismissive.
Like it or not, Protestantism and Evangelism have been some of the most profound agents for change in U.S. history.
Yeah, but he has a whole subset of the piece dedicated to
the destructive power of the progressives too, in the Vox populi.
I'm not sure you're distinguishing between what the game is saying, and what you feel the game should be saying. I just think it's difficult to argue that at least one of the main thrusts of the game's purpose isn't a discussion of
the genesis of evangelism and conservatism, and their inherent violence and danger,
regardless of whether or not you think that message is correct.
Again though, I think the much more interesting and complex aspects of the essay are non-political, which is more what I was trying to draw attention to.
I think the problem is that your taking the theme of racism and segregation as a theme of Columbia, when it's more supposed to reflect the inner conflict of Booker.
It's really more of a mirror reflecting the chaos of Bookers life, rather than a direct commentary of racism in 1912's society.
The two realities are both born of Booker/Comstocks choice at baptism. What he does at Wounded Knee is horrifying and goes against the moral fiber of any person. In order to deal with it he has two choices:
Booker accepts his sins but it leads him down a self destructive path of drinking and gambling that he tries to drown his sorrows with and its his low self-worth that ultimately makes him feel not worthy of Anna his own daughter to the point where he actually sells her.
Comstock though is the path of justification and by being born again creates a fiction that allows him to excuse his past actions and even worse paint them in a righteous light. This creates a monster capable of the most heinous crimes imaginable. The extreme racisms comes from this fiction he has created.
The game is a commentary on racism and socialist issues as much as it is the danger of justifying your mistakes through your own fiction.
My girlfriend made a funny comment to me while I was playing last night. "It looks like you keep playing the same level over and over." I told her no, I'm in different areas, they just all look the same.
Story continues to impress, and combat continues to be meh. A funny thing I observed with my girlfriend was that she would watch me play when a story segment would occur, or while I woulld loot hunt, but once combat started, she would go back to reading on her iPad.
I'm about an hour in, but I'm thinking about writing a critical analysis paper that compares Shakespeares use of foreshadowing in Julius Caesar to the foreshadowing in Bioshock Infinite.
Should I finish this game tomorrow, would this be a good.topic to focus on?
The two realities are both born of Booker/Comstocks choice at baptism. What he does at Wounded Knee is horrifying and goes against the moral fiber of any person. In order to deal with it he has two choices:
Booker accepts his sins but it leads him down a self destructive path of drinking and gambling that he tries to drown his sorrows with and its his low self-worth that ultimately makes him feel not worthy of Anna his own daughter to the point where he actually sells her.
Comstock though is the path of justification and by being born again creates a fiction that allows him to excuse his past actions and even worse paint them in a righteous light. This creates a monster capable of the most heinous crimes imaginable. The extreme racisms comes from this fiction he has created.
The game is a commentary on racism and socialist issues as much as it is the danger of justifying your mistakes through your own fiction.
Yeah, I get what you're saying, but if that's what they were going for (and I don't agree that it is), they should have set the game in another time period. The racism of Columbia isn't all that "extreme" for the time. What's extreme is the way the game beats you over the head with it, mostly with how the characters in the world talk about it. At some point it was just like "... Yeah. ... Yeah I get it." And then after I said that it continued to beat me over the head with the theme for another two hours. "No... N-no, but do you get it?" "YES I GET IT."
I think the problem is that your taking the theme of racism and segregation as a theme of Columbia, when it's more supposed to reflect the inner conflict of Booker.
This, among many similar reasons, is why the story is such a big disappointment.
I said this earlier in the thread, but the game begins by taking on the Big Ideas (racism, capitalism, nationalism, American exceptionalism, ideology of progress, etc.), but then it tosses them aside about halfway through without ever actually addressing them. All that big stuff ends up just being a bunch of "fluff" that has no bearing whatsoever on the story that emerges in the second half of the game (the "personal" story of the main characters). The game simply uses those Big Ideas as window dressing for a series of half-cooked, indulgent, harebrained sci-fi "twists."
Bioshock Infinite succeeds in many ways. But the one thing that set its predecessor apart (following through on a high concept that binds game design, game mechanics, and political philosophy) is the one area where Bioshock Infinite fails miserably.
This, among many similar reasons, is why the story is such a big disappointment.
I said this earlier in the thread, but the game begins by taking on the Big Ideas (racism, capitalism, nationalism, American exceptionalism, ideology of progress, etc.), but then it tosses them aside about halfway through without ever actually addressing them. All that big stuff ends up just being a bunch of "fluff" that has no bearing whatsoever on the story that emerges in the second half of the game (the "personal" story of the main characters). The game simply uses those Big Ideas as window dressing for a series of half-cooked, indulgent, harebrained sci-fi "twists."
Bioshock Infinite succeeds in many ways. But the one thing that set its predecessor apart (following through on a high concept that binds game design, game mechanics, and political philosophy) is the one area where Bioshock Infinite fails miserably.
But how do you tackle those ideas in a game that involves you mowing down hundreds of people with an RPG? I'm not sure this game would have been the best avenue to tackle those issues head on, however, using them to build a more believable world was extremely effective.
Yeah, I get what you're saying, but if that's what they were going for (and I don't agree that it is), they should have set the game in another time period. The racism of Columbia isn't all that "extreme" for the time. What's extreme is the way the game beats you over the head with it, mostly with how the characters in the world talk about it. At some point it was just like "... Yeah. ... Yeah I get it." And then after I said that it continued to beat me over the head with the theme for another two hours. "No... N-no, but do you get it?" "YES I GET IT."
When you think about charismatic figures of history that push a social/racial agenda of superiority it always comes back to how they can justify actions that go against our moral fibers and its typically through righteous vindication: Hitler, Crusades, Rwanda on and on. In that aspect I think its pretty legit. However, I was wondering how I would feel about the game if I was black. I bet it would start to feel a bit over the top about how constant your getting that reinforcement.
So, I started my 1999 run last night. Combat is no joke lol, I'm really going to have to be on my toes, especially during the handyman fights.
I want to get all my achievements done on this run so I have a quick question. I need a good guide for all the Voxaphones / Sightseers / Infusions. I have been looking at the IGN guide, but was curious if anyone had anything they thought was better.
I thought I was really thorough on my first play through but I missed quite a bit actually. I missed about 18 Voxaphones which I thought was weird considering I thought I explored every nook and cranny of Columbia.
On hard at least the game plays better if you let re spawns happen IMO. It seems to be balanced towards having to bleed a little money, forcing you to make more decisions about your actions. Irational should take it evern farther, and give us something like XCom's Ironman mode. Your position is always saved, no reloading an earlier save. If you run out of money on death it deletes your save game.
Make it happen FartOfWar, make Infinite into the first real mass market roguelike shooter.
This, among many similar reasons, is why the story is such a big disappointment.
I said this earlier in the thread, but the game begins by taking on the Big Ideas (racism, capitalism, nationalism, American exceptionalism, ideology of progress, etc.), but then it tosses them aside about halfway through without ever actually addressing them. All that big stuff ends up just being a bunch of "fluff" that has no bearing whatsoever on the story that emerges in the second half of the game (the "personal" story of the main characters). The game simply uses those Big Ideas as window dressing for a series of half-cooked, indulgent, harebrained sci-fi "twists."
Not at all. Seems like you simply weren't a fan on how it was handled honestly. Which is fine, but to say it was half cooked?
Lets not forget how the whole theme of Bioshock was the "A Man Chooses, and A slave obeys" Yet even after the whole Ryan twist you still become a slave to the game design, even though you free of atlas/fountine enslavement.
Bioshock in itself 3/4 of the way collapse entirely in it's narrative so you really have no rebuttal.
Well just finished it... this game was extraordinary.. but a total mess.
Shouldn't have gone with playing it on Hard. Most of the game was easy as a summer breeze but some spots had me smashing my head against the wall. Maybe I just suck with shooters but it felt very unbalanced.
Everything from art direction, graphics and atmosphere was amazing. I just wanted to soak everything around me. Story itself was interesting and probably amazing on paper but the way it was told was just bad. Just like the first Bioshock. Weird disconnected monologues and conversations that just didn't make any sense.
Schizophrenic mess switching between moments of brilliance and absolute garbage.
So, I started my 1999 run last night. Combat is no joke lol, I'm really going to have to be on my toes, especially during the handyman fights.
I want to get all my achievements done on this run so I have a quick question. I need a good guide for all the Voxaphones / Sightseers / Infusions. I have been looking at the IGN guide, but was curious if anyone had anything they thought was better.
I thought I was really thorough on my first play through but I missed quite a bit actually. I missed about 18 Voxaphones which I thought was weird considering I thought I explored every nook and cranny of Columbia.
I am using official premium guide on my second playthrough on Hard, and I recommend it to any fan just for the art alone, but Im sure the ign guide is just as clear (I prefer official guide for the maps)
Whoo good luck on 1999 mode, many a seizure-inducing/controller-throwing moments in there...remember to double posses
Trying to do all skyhook achievements in 1999 mode may prove frustrating-just saying, are you also attempting the "never use a Dollar bill machine" challenge in 99 mode? Its easier than it sounds, always backtrack before progressing.
replaying game on Hard now, and is SUCH a superior experience-
When you think about charismatic figures of history that push a social/racial agenda of superiority it always comes back to how they can justify actions that go against our moral fibers and its typically through righteous vindication: Hitler, Crusades, Rwanda on and on. In that aspect I think its pretty legit. However, I was wondering how I would feel about the game if I was black. I bet it would start to feel a bit over the top about how constant your getting that reinforcement.
I'm not saying that it's bad design for the world of Columbia to be racist that makes sense. What bothered me was the second quarter of the game where it seemed to be all anyone talked about, and all you would see. It's not the premise, it's the execution. Again, I feel like some subtlety would've been far more powerful.
I keep thinking to the way I felt for the first quarter of the game, and how much better that was than the rest. The world was beautiful and bright, unlike the spiral into the drab horror-world that I guess defines the word "Bioshock"; there were interesting periods of down-time (the Fair) rather than just being in battle all the time; the world was "alive," and the people of Columbia did more than shoot at you or talk about their backwards ways; there was some real sense of discovery and exploration hinted at, but later just it all just turned into fetch-quests; the freight-rail sequences weren't a discombobulating mess like they were in much of the rest of the game...
Thankfully, Elizabeth is added after the first quarter though, and that was more than welcome. She and the "strange" man and woman are the best parts of the complete game. I was very happy to have her around for most of it too. It might seem weird to say, but I often get "lonely" in shooters, especially when they give you squad-mates for a bit only to take them away. Very, VERY refreshing to have a game where not only is someone with you for most of it, but offers real help. I might've been even more struck by this had I not just played Spec Ops a few weeks back.
Bleh, rambled. Felt the need to say something nice again, since I don't hate the game. I'm just reacting to the over-the-top praise, I suppose.
Well just finished it... this game was extraordinary.. but a total mess.
Shouldn't have gone with playing it on Hard. Most of the game was easy as a summer breeze but some spots had me smashing my head against the wall. Maybe I just suck with shooters but it felt very unbalanced.
Everything from art direction, graphics and atmosphere was amazing. I just wanted to soak everything around me. Story itself was interesting and probably amazing on paper but the way it was told was just bad. Just like the first Bioshock. Weird disconnected monologues and conversations that just didn't make any sense.
Schizophrenic mess switching between moments of brilliance and absolute garbage.
Play it on a second playthrough. I GARUNTEE that the mind blowing ending will compare just as much to the things that start clicking in place on a second playthrough.
All that white noise in the beginning. It start to makes complete sense
I'm not saying that it's bad design for the world of Columbia to be racist that makes sense. What bothered me was the second quarter of the game where it seemed to be all anyone talked about, and all you would see. It's not the premise, it's the execution. Again, I feel like some subtlety would've been far more powerful.
I keep thinking to the way I felt for the first quarter of the game, and how much better that was than the rest. The world was beautiful and bright, unlike the spiral into the drab horror-world that I guess defines the word "Bioshock"; there were interesting periods of down-time (the Fair) rather than just being in battle all the time; the world was "alive," and the people of Columbia did more than shoot at you or talk about their backwards ways; there was some real sense of discovery and exploration hinted at, but later just it all just turned into fetch-quests; the freight-rail sequences weren't a discombobulating mess like they were in much of the rest of the game...
Thankfully, Elizabeth is added after the first quarter though, and that was more than welcome. She and the "strange" man and woman are the best parts of the complete game. I was very happy to have her around for most of it too. It might seem weird to say, but I often get "lonely" in shooters, especially when they give you squad-mates for a bit only to take them away. Very, VERY refreshing to have a game where not only is someone with you for most of it, but offers real help. I might've been even more struck by this had I not just played Spec Ops a few weeks back.
Bleh, rambled. Felt the need to say something nice again, since I don't hate the game. I'm just reacting to the over-the-top praise, I suppose.
Yeah. They pretty much removed all of the dynamics that made Bioshock interesting imo. It really felt like they created some kind of ecosystem. And it played and still plays unlike any fps out there.
Finally finished it for the first time last night! Somehow I managed to remain unspoiled throughout the entire week!
Great beginning, kind of lost interest in the middle and rushed through it, and loved the end levels. I'm going to wait for some impressions, but I'm probably going to get the season's pass for this.
Started a new game immediately and I'm going to try and find absolutely everything this time around. After that, it'll be time for 1999 mode.
I am using official premium guide on my second playthrough on Hard, and I recommend it to any fan just for the art alone, but Im sure the ign guide is just as clear (I prefer official guide for the maps)
Whoo good luck on 1999 mode, many a seizure-inducing/controller-throwing moments in there...remember to double posses
Trying to do all skyhook achievements in 1999 mode may prove frustrating-just saying, are you also attempting the "never use a Dollar bill machine" challenge in 99 mode? Its easier than it sounds, always backtrack before progressing.
replaying game on Hard now, and is SUCH a superior experience-
Yeah, I like those guides but just not going to pay money for them... I have all the combat achievements done on my first play through on hard. All I need is the collectibles and beating the game in 1999 mode, and not using the dollar bill machine which is not hard I didn't use it at all on my first play through. Just a waste of money.
I've given up on my 1999 Mode run. I'm stuck at the Vault fight and the randomness of the gear combined with the weapons I have available for it has me in a spot that is super-grindy.
I'm going to burn through the game on Normal or Hard and get it over with as I would indeed like to see how the game comes together at the end. I hope it holds up.
It might have been bad timing, as I've never really got motion sickness before, but I just got nausea from playing it for a few minutes (right before the raffle). I had the FOV at 70% or so, then tried it at roughly 50%. Now I don't know if that is still a problem, since you don't feel better immediately, but WHAT SETTING SHOULD I USE? >_> Why can't they put frigging numbers at the bar?
What is 0FOV and what is 100% FOV bar?
yeah I had 3 or 4 people that wanted to see the first part of the game (they probably would have purchased) but I didnt want to do anything to screw up my main game.
Is it just me or does Booker look incredibly derpy in that commercial airing right now with the handyman fight? He looks like a monkey in that shot of his face through the handyman's heart window.
Is it just me or does Booker look incredibly derpy in that commercial airing right now with the handyman fight? He looks like a monkey in that shot of his face through the handyman's heart window.
I've given up on my 1999 Mode run. I'm stuck at the Vault fight and the randomness of the gear combined with the weapons I have available for it has me in a spot that is super-grindy.
I'm going to burn through the game on Normal or Hard and get it over with as I would indeed like to see how the game comes together at the end. I hope it holds up.
