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Bioshock Infinite |OT| No Gods, Kings, or Irrational Games

According to those who have finished it on 1999 mode, upgrading Charge is a necessity, especially as it makes
the Lady Comstock
fight really easy.

I finished 1999 mode without upgrading or really using Charge at all. Different playstyles are definitely possible.
 

Zeliard

Member
Started playing this and had the exact same reaction at exactly the same points as this guy:
http://kotaku.com/bioshock-infinite-is-insanely-ridiculously-violent-it-470524003

It's just a bit much for me. Don't think I'll continue.

I've seen a few of those articles recently, and responses to them (Rab Florence), and I think there should be a general distinction drawn between people who think Bioshock Infinite should have had something more than just shooting as a method of interaction, and people who think the violence itself was too much.

While those two groups probably overlap to a certain extent, I think they're largely distinct. You can acknowledge that the world of Bioshock Infinite is and should be incredibly violent, while still yearning for some more nuanced and varied character interaction. I completely disagree with opinions like that Kotaku one. That world could not be anything but violent - even hyper-violent - but when it comes to the way the player can interact with the environment, I don't think that should have been relegated to solely shooting it.
 

PaulloDEC

Member
Oh, thank god I'm not as man-child who feels such shame.

It just seems like such a ridiculous thing to pick on. I mean, Game of Thrones is crazy violent. So was Rome and Deadwood, and so are about a million other critically revered television shows, books and films.

Also, surely it's utterly obvious that that initial moment of brutal violence in Infinite was deliberately put there to be in stark contrast to serene beauty of the prior moments.
 

JB1981

Member
I feel like I'm not getting the gist of the combat. I'm playing on Hard mode. I am progressing well enough so far but I am dying a lot and constantly taking a lot of damage. I feel like the enemies are very hard to see. I rarely know where I'm being shot from. The combat isn't really doing much for me at all. The setting is wonderful and the political/social/racial themes explored are courageous, but so far as a physical shooter I'm not terribly satisifed with the game on PS3. Maybe it's better with a mouse n keyboard
 
I feel like I'm not getting the gist of the combat. I'm playing on Hard mode. I am progressing well enough so far but I am dying a lot and constantly taking a lot of damage. I feel like the enemies are very hard to see. I rarely know where I'm being shot from. The combat isn't really doing much for me at all. The setting is wonderful and the political/social/racial themes explored are courageous, but so far as a physical shooter I'm not terribly satisifed with the game on PS3. Maybe it's better with a mouse n keyboard

Yep, Bio does suffer a bit from 'seemingly invisible gunfire coming from seemingly invisible enemies unrelentingly and annoyingly chipping away at your shield/health' syndrome.

I think the game really holds its own as a shooter, though. I was pleasantly surprised with the gunplay.
 
You should be careful right now, you're skipping carefree through a minefield right now. Those enticing black bars surrounding you are end game sadness just waiting to taint your experience.

They won't be too enticing for too much longer because I'm going to play Infinite right...now!
 

Ce-Lin

Member
the gunplay is really solid and if you seem "to be being shot from everywhere" just slow down and take cover, enemies are definitely there, not invisible, and you have the tools to deal with them all. Playing in 1999 mode is so awesome, every playthrough there's some "ah... next time I'm gonna use that/ try that other strategy", the gunplay is amazing, weight and recoil are dialed superbly for this type of game, not as good as Killzone 2 which felt like you were really carrying a powerful assault rifle instead of a twitch controller, but I understand Bioshock needs much quicker handling of the weapons and Irrational nailed it. Not enough love for 1999 mode, it's the only way everyone competent enough should be playing, awesome and rewarding. The other difficulty modes are so easy that in fact make Bioshock almost an interactive book.

Apart from that I have an honest question, my nephew watched me playing Infinite and was blown away, he has a Wii U, I know the game is not currently on that platform, but has Ken or anyone @Irrational hinted for a future release? thanks.
 

KorrZ

Member
Oh, thank god I'm not as man-child who feels such shame.

On that quote:

Let me introduce Mr. Kirk Hamilton to Call of Duty and Gears of War. Two extremely popular franchises for "non-gamers" built on violence. The idea that the violence is what would stop someone from experiencing this game is such a joke.
 

Varna

Member
the gunplay is really solid and if you seem "to be being shot from everywhere" just slow down and take cover, enemies are definitely there, not invisible, and you have the tools to deal with them all. Playing in 1999 mode is so awesome, every playthrough there's some "ah... next time I'm gonna use that/ try that other strategy", the gunplay is amazing, weight and recoil are dialed superbly for this type of game, not as good as Killzone 2 which felt like you were really carrying a powerful assault rifle instead of a twitch controller, but I understand Bioshock needs much quicker handling of the weapons and Irrational nailed it. Not enough love for 1999 mode, it's the only way everyone competent enough should be playing, awesome and rewarding. The other difficulty modes are so easy that in fact make Bioshock almost an interactive book.

Come on now. When you go through all the trouble of giving weapons "weight" only to have it feel exactly like input lag you know you fucked up.

I agree with your over thoughts though. 1999 mode isn't all that difficult aside from a certain few battles (you know the ones) and I can't imagine how easy any other mode is. Actually I saw a video someone posted in here showing those meele executions and he was just standing there while everyone shot at him. Could barely see his health move!
 
Come on now. When you go through all the trouble of giving weapons "weight" only to have it feel exactly like input lag you know you fucked up.

Well, if that's input lag, then lag me up, yo. I am a massive proponent for KZ2's feel, but let's not go there :).
 

Drago

Member
I've been playing for about 2 1/2 hours now. I'm in Soldiers Field right now.

I am extremely impressed with this game so far. Really loving everything about the game, although I'm not a huge fan of the combat (but I suck at FPSs so that's expected from me). There is so much detail, its astounding.
 
I'll try to wrap this up as succinctly as I am able.

+Fun mobile shooter attached to an interesting and unique world and story. The variety of locations does not extend to the variety of enemies, though this isn't anywhere near as bad as some recent titles. The pacing seemed to hurt the experience and believability of the world more in the beginning than the end for me, though that doesn't seem to be an opinion I share with many. The linearity hurt the game less than I expected all around. There certainly is plenty of world to be had, and I was generally impressed with the atmosphere, especially from
the Hall of Heroes
on.

+The game grew on me as it progressed. I was fairly unimpressed by anything but the world until
Monument Island
, and then still pretty bored until
Hall of Heroes
, where I felt the narrative, world, and gameplay finally hit a stride.
Finkton
is where I finally felt like I was getting somewhere. By the end I was involved and interested in seeing things through.

+Audio is exceptional. Liked everything but some of the combat music. The licensed covers are also wonderful.

-The game however is certainly not without its ludo-narrative hiccups. I've already addressed my issues with Elizabeth's functionality in general, and her utilization in combat really amounts to nothing but Eddie the powerup dispenser from Mega Man. The general lackadaisical attitude of the populace is kind of jarring in an oddly typical gamey fashion; people don't seem to mind you stealing shit out of their desks or bags right under their noses, walking behind their counters, going into their offices, all with your weapons drawn, yet god forbid you fire Possession on a vending machine.

-The game's bugs (PS3 version) and save system do not deserve a free pass, as they worked together to force us to probably replay almost 2 hours of the game. Reloading a checkpoint returned us to a previous checkpoint once, items got stuck inside the floor geometry a couple of times, at some point asking Liz to unlock a door resulted in 5 minutes of roaming around and reloading an area until she eventually decided to do it, and another time combat began during lockpicking causing the lock to fall off but the door to remain locked, forcing a checkpoint reload.

-The general narrative is a mess by design and that's serviceable for how it wraps up, but the full potential of the setting and some major characters are utterly wasted.
The two characters I thought had the most potential to be interesting - Fitzroy and Fink - are pathetically eliminated at the same time square in the middle of the story in an oddly contrived scene utilizing the kind of cheap emotional manipulation that worked better in early 90s syndicated action shows. Elizabeth goes from praising Fitzroy to condemning her in the course of 3 minutes, and seemingly only because about 12 of her guys stormed the factory and killed about 1/100 of the number of people Booker had up to that point. I had a real sense that the story began as one thing, and then abruptly completely changes course in the middle, leaving a gaping hole where the justification for huge swaths of the game's setup once was (racist society, the time period, Elizabeth), and forcing existing concepts to be cobbled together and repurposed for a new goal. Shiny New Idea Syndrome, maybe?

I didn't care too terribly much for Bioshock 1 and skipped 2 (this shall be rectified shortly, I think), so this is already my favorite. My general impression though is that the honeymoon will wear off on this in due time, and this game's impact on the genre, on game narratives, or this generation will ultimately be much less than Bioshock 1.

All things considered, I'd rate it an 8/10, and would like to do a 1999 run in the future.
 

ArynCrinn

Banned
Normal...

I can get 2 zeppelins out, but by that time the core's fucked. When I get done with the first one, even, the core's surrounded by shit, even if I had songbirded them when they first arrived.

The other thing that gets me is that there's only a split second where you have to be facing the correct way and hit the X at the exact time in order to board the zeppelins. I end up missing that moment like 5 or 6 times.

Tried Return to Sender. A fuckton of them on the thing, and it still didn't help.

Yeah dude, that fight was incredibly insane on my 1999 run.

I used Return to Sender Traps near the core, then Devil's Kiss traps. I possessed the two Flak Cannon bastards on the catwalks. Then I just started spamming Shock Jockey Traps everywhere until I got back up top and pick eveything off with the snipe. Bird was mainly used for airships and Zeppelins, only two to really watch out for are the two with gun turrets. Anyway that's how I did mine. Oh, and any soldiers close to the core got Bronco'd and sniped.
 
So...
Emporia

I noticed there was two hairpin locks connected to the combat space where you fought the HM. I unlocked one, traveled through all the shops, explored the graveyward where Lady Comstock's body laid, went past the docking thing where you could access Comstock House, then proceeded all the way until I unlocked the other hairpin to the other entrance. Explored everything I could, then tried to access Comstock house. Oh! We need Lady Comstock's hand...ew...so, gotta go back to the graveyard.

Some freaky shit happens (really freaky), and now I'm fighting Lady Comstock! Okay, to be honest, I highlighted a few spoilers and knew I would be fighting her from pretty early on, and I knew people were having a lot of problems with her. So may I ask: Why were people having so much difficulty? I died once trying to beat her. I used the handcannon, crankgun, shotgun, and machine gun in that order.

What I think it came down to was Return to Sender. I paused the game to look at my vigor wheel and thought which one(s) would be useful against her. Bucking Bronco? Probably not. Devil's Kiss? Nope. Shock Jockey? Nah. Undertow? Same as Bucking Bronco. Murder of Crows? No way. Possession and Charge? Nuh-uh.

Return to Sender? There's something I can use! Every time she got close to me I'd put up the magnetic shield, or I would charge it to deal huge damage back to her.

Now I gotta find three tears. I know I'm closing on the ending, but I don't want it to end!
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Anyone got any tips for the Handyman at
Finkton Docks
on 1999? The rest of the game has been fine up until now but this part has been brutal. I only have $400 too so I can't mess up too much and the Handyman is always standing right outside where I respawn to kill me again instantly.
 

Ein Bear

Member
It's a shame that the soundtrack doesn't have
the acoustic version of Will The Circle Be Unbroken that you get a video of them recording over the credits. That's by far my favourite take on it.
 

RDreamer

Member
So...
Emporia

I noticed there was two hairpin locks connected to the combat space where you fought the HM. I unlocked one, traveled through all the shops, explored the graveyward where Lady Comstock's body laid, went past the docking thing where you could access Comstock House, then proceeded all the way until I unlocked the other hairpin to the other entrance. Explored everything I could, then tried to access Comstock house. Oh! We need Lady Comstock's hand...ew...so, gotta go back to the graveyard.

Some freaky shit happens (really freaky), and now I'm fighting Lady Comstock! Okay, to be honest, I highlighted a few spoilers and knew I would be fighting her from pretty early on, and I knew people were having a lot of problems with her. So may I ask: Why were people having so much difficulty? I died once trying to beat her. I used the handcannon, crankgun, shotgun, and machine gun in that order.

What I think it came down to was Return to Sender. I paused the game to look at my vigor wheel and thought which one(s) would be useful against her. Bucking Bronco? Probably not. Devil's Kiss? Nope. Shock Jockey? Nah. Undertow? Same as Bucking Bronco. Murder of Crows? No way. Possession and Charge? Nuh-uh.

Return to Sender? There's something I can use! Every time she got close to me I'd put up the magnetic shield, or I would charge it to deal huge damage back to her.

Now I gotta find three tears. I know I'm closing on the ending, but I don't want it to end!

Charge makes that fight incredibly easy. It was so easy I didn't even realize that was the fight everyone was talking about being so hard. Like, I didn't realize it was a big fight at all. It just sort of ended and I was sitting there wondering what happened. I was waiting for something else to happen or it to start up again, and it didn't.
 
It just seems like such a ridiculous thing to pick on. I mean, Game of Thrones is crazy violent. So was Rome and Deadwood, and so are about a million other critically revered television shows, books and films.

Also, surely it's utterly obvious that that initial moment of brutal violence in Infinite was deliberately put there to be in stark contrast to serene beauty of the prior moments.

The difference is that shows and movies like the ones you mention are better at using Specific Violence for dramatic effect than video games are. The first skyhook murder works on that level, but the fights with the various waves of nameless enemies throughout the game do not, and actually undermine the impact of the violence that is relevant to the story.
 
Was thinking of getting this at retail but I heard that even then you need to download most of it from steam is that true 14 gbs would take 4 days to download here :(
 

Drago

Member
Did anyone else more or less ignore setting traps with vigors?

Playing through the game right now, I haven't used a trap once, unless it was by accident. Feels more practical to me to just use a vigor right at an enemy/group of enemies than to trap them in.

Maybe I'll use them more as I get farther into the game.
 
I totally understand the violence issue.

I am a fan of Arma and Dayz. One of the things I enjoy the most is the down time, you aren't killing hundreds of people. In Dayz I might not see someone for a few hours. But when the bullets start flying the panic sets in. My heart pumps like crazy. The firefights are usually short, but feel incredibly violent and always memorable.

Then you get a game like Infinite, it has an incredible setting, stunning attention to detail and a good story. But then every 15-20 minutes I'm attacked again by identical enemies in waves that feel incredibly artificial. This is the complete opposite of how I feel just exploring the world.

Don't get me wrong, the gunplay is good, it's just not memorable. It gets repetitive, and his is one of the only games that I actually don't look forward to the next shooty bit.

Dayz doesn't have a rich, detailed city to explore. Or likeable, well voiced characters, it doesn't even have that good gunplay, but I get more emotion and excitement out of that than I do out of this beautifully crafted game simply because of how the violence means something.

It's 4am and that was probably all bollocks.
 
I am consumed by this game. I have a huge backlog that I should be getting done but I can't stop playing. Playing again on 1999 and I am having as much fun as the first time.

THIS. GAME. IS. GOOD.
 

Duffyside

Banned
Any word on if they're planning to patch-in progression-tracking/itemization, or are they just gonna be dicks about this?

I swear, there's no way I'm going to hunt down 80 voxophones all over again.
 

Drago

Member
As an aside, I hate the save system for this game.

Autosaving with no option to save on your own is not something I'm a fan of. Pretty much my only major complaint so far.
 
Any word on if they're planning to patch-in progression-tracking/itemization, or are they just gonna be dicks about this?

I swear, there's no way I'm going to hunt down 80 voxophones all over again.

I am following IGN's guide for my 1999 playthrough. UGH

As an aside, I hate the save system for this game.

Autosaving with no option to save on your own is not something I'm a fan of. Pretty much my only major complaint so far.

its pretty bad... BUT at least in the PC game if you choose quite game to desktop or menu it will let you know when the last save was.
 

Drago

Member
edit: beaten with more details

Personally, I'm playing on easy, mostly because I'm a wimp I suck at FPS games and died constantly on a normal run before I switched difficulties, and I only have a limited time with the game. Having a great time either way. I'll probably manage 12 hours when all is said and done, I'm really enjoying just looking around environments and taking everything in. It's all really immersive and breathtaking.

I'll save a harder playthrough for when I play through the entire series in a year or two.
 
Going to start 1999 tomorrow, not excited lol.

I can use the vending machines just NOT the Dollar Bill one with the ammo/health right? And since I have the CE guide, I use it to get the vox and sightseeing trophies too.
 

Malo

Banned
Wow. I certainly didn't see that ending coming.

Off to the spoiler thread I go to make sense of certain things.
 

Grinchy

Banned
As an aside, I hate the save system for this game.

Autosaving with no option to save on your own is not something I'm a fan of. Pretty much my only major complaint so far.

I'm not thrilled with the decision either, but it honestly hasn't bothered me that much. Sometimes when I see the autosave icon, it just reminds me that I'm at a good stopping point.

I'm also not thrilled with only being able to hold 2 guns.
 

TTG

Member
I generally agree with the comments about the combat. It's repetitive, normally way too frantic and can be frustrating. It's a shame because about 80%(yes, BS number) is really well designed. Let me explain:

On one hand, we have a great sandbox. The individual elements are executed well, they're creative and they combine for some interesting potential tactics for the player to exploit. There are a lot of elements at play here, Booker has a selection of vigors and weapons(and, to a smaller extent, gear); there is a robust cast of enemies; there is the skyhook mechanic that allows for great verticality and variance in arenas/maps and traversal; there are Elizabeth's
tears
... they swung for the fences. And it works, right? For example, first time you board an aircraft with the help of a skyhook and puree everyone on board with charge is a great feeling. You come up with a strategy from the tools they provide, execute it. In short, sandbox shooter fun 101(and there's really not enough of it to go around with all the COD spectacle shooters we have now). It has the makings(the seed!?!?) of greatness, some Halo quality greatness in fact.

Here's a thing it doesn't have though, and this is the other side of the coin, it doesn't have a very good AI. The enemy is hellbent on mauling your face, all the time. I just went through the club of the ravens again and it makes for a shitty encounter. Everyone is rushing at you, no matter if they have those stupid batons or are armed. The melee guys are right in your face, those with machine guns feel the need to be 20 feet or less away from you anyway. The worst part is that this is the bread and butter encounter of Bioshock Infinite, beating the grunts back with a stick, so to speak. And it's repetitive and frantic. It's also frustrating, because when you're preoccupied with this shit, you don't have the time for much of anything else(like noticing that guy that's just out of your peripheral vision that's been unloading clips into you). Other times they run around the map like their head's been chopped off, presumably moving from cover to cover, but that's more funny than destructive.

You ever notice how in Halo(yea, I'm bringing it up again. But it's a pillar of sandbox shooters that aren't set in an open world) the Elites, jackals and even grunts let you have some space? Let you step back, weigh the options in your approach, consider those variables/mechanics you have available. Infinite rarely does that. Now, I haven't made a first person shooter, so maybe it's a misdiagnosis and the root of the problem is not the AI, but it does seem that way from here. It's not as if the gameplay would be perfect if not for this flaw, I don't think anyone likes that certain enemies can get shot in the head with upgraded guns and remain unfased(I'm looking at you, asshole RPG guy, shooting me in the face from 5 feet away)... but it seems to account for a lot.

;TLDR - bad AI that's just not a lot of fun to fight at best and downright annoying and frustrating most of the time muddles up an excellent sand box shooter. Irrational swung for the fences and got most of it right, but they whiffed on one of the basics, something that's integral.
 
The biggest problem BI has is its impressive e3 2011 demo. The final game just felt like an inferior version of that vision.

If you go to youtube and check some comments lot´s of people feel the same way and think the demo is much better than the final game we got.
 

vidcons

Banned
Vidcons Bioshock Infinite Extravaganza Review:

VIDCONS WALKS INTO A ROOM, POPULAR GAME REVIEW JOURNALISTS SUCH AS JEFF GERSTYDOGSMAN AND KOTAKU WRITERS ARE HUDDLED AROUND A TABLE SHAPED IN A U. VIDCONS HAS THE FLOOR AND STANDS BEFORE A FLAT PODIUM.

Vidcons: I would like to show you all a magic trick.

*Someone from 1up instantly rips open their iPad case and tweets "Dark Knight reference. #Herewego"*

VIDCONS PULLS A COPY OF BIOSHOCK INFINITE OUT FROM HIS PEACOAT AND SLAM IT DOWN ON THE PODIUM. THERE IS AN ECHO BECAUSE THE PODIUM IS MOSTLY EMPTY

Vidcons: This game is an illusion. Everything serves as a distraction from the simple questions you should ask. Question any event with "Why" and you will be sucked into a vortex of Catch 22, levineexmachinas, and Moe eyes.

GERSTYDOGSMAN'S EYEBROW FURROWS. A POLYGON WRITER ENTERS THE ROOM.

Polygon Writer: Aye, sorry, my fashionably late taxi was, as you expected, fashionably furnished by Microsoft.

Kotaku Writer 3: Sick.

Vidcons: Have you ever watched David Copperfield do a trick that simply blew your mind? Were you ever screaming at your parents beside you "HOW. HOW DID HE DO THAT" while spilling that popcorn you had to have because you thought you were going to go see The Fellowship of The Ring and not some theater crap?

GAMEINFORMER WRITER BEGINS SCRIBBLING IN THE NOTES SECTION OF HIS SIGNED BIOSHOCK INFINITE MANUAL. THE SCRATCHIN'S MOSTLY RESEMBLE HIM BANGING KIM KARDASHIAN.

Vidcons: What if I were to tell you that a game did this before. . . and did it better?

EVERYONE STOPS DISRESPECTING VIDCONS FOR A MOMENT. VIDCONS YANKS OUT A VINTAGE PC BOXED COPY OF HALF LIFE 2 AND SLAM THAT ALSO DOWN ON THE POTENTIALLY EMPTY (AS THE SOUND ALLUDES TO) PODIUM

Vidcons: What if life was the Prestige, and you just fell for a shitty magic trick after praising how good another one was years ago. What if. . . you simply liked one thing because it was good, or good enough, whether or not you knew it, and heralded another for being bad but simply ignored criticism and stated itself as important. What if you were all shit.

A HOOKER EMERGES FROM BENEATH THE PODIUM AND DOES THAT THING FROM POLICE ACADEMY FOUR. THE HIP HOP GAMER STANDS UP, SLAMMING A COPY OF A POLICE ACADEMY 4/BIOSHOCK INFINITE BUNDLE ON THE TABLE.

Vidcons silence has been bought. Metacritic places the game high on the listings. It's 2018, and videogames are dead.

10/10
 

DatDude

Banned
The biggest problem BI has is its impressive e3 2011 demo. The final game just felt like an inferior version of that vision.

If you go to youtube and check some comments lot´s of people feel the same way and think the demo is much better than the final game we got.

How can it be a BETTER version, when it's simply a linear and scripted walkthrough of the game's events. Hell, it wasn't even a game, just a tech demo of sorts.
 
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