Bioshock Infinite - Review Thread [UP: IGN exclusive split PC/Console review up]

Is it possible for a review site to give out a negative review on a major game these days?

It feels like every time I see a game commercial these days it's like subliminal advertising for the game sites that they take quotes from. Of course a review site will have glowing things to say about a game when they think it will get their site mentioned in a major marketing campaign. It's almost like tagfishing on here.

It's not that I have a problem with games getting great reviews - there is just a part of me that wonders about this whenever I see commercials like that on tv.


As far as Bioshock: Infinite, I am excited as hell that it's out and am glad to hear it's getting good reviews because it's on its way to my house as I type this...
 
I honestly wish the reviews were less positive.

Bioshock was extremely overrated, yet it seems few reviewers want to cop to the fact that its entire third act is mediocre and as such it never deserved the plethora of 10's it enjoyed.

Because of this I remain skeptical, despite really hoping that Infinite is as good as they say it is.
 
Dakota47 said:
The number of weapons you can use, doesn't seem to have been the deciding factor in either the IGN review or any other reviews I have read, so it was probably a factual error. You can put away your pitchfork.
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You're missing the point. Having a 2 weapon limit is a big turn off for PC gamers. The IGN review was the only one available before launch, so it was a deciding factor for a lot of late pre-orders. And they lied that the PC version doesn't have the limit. It's not possible that such a thing is a "factual error", whatever that means. You can't say "the mouse scroll wheel zips through your FULL list of guns", when this is evidently not the case.
 
chidrock said:
Is it possible for a review site to give out a negative review on a major game these days?

It feels like every time I see a game commercial these days it's like subliminal advertising for the game sites that they take quotes from. Of course a review site will have glowing things to say about a game when they think it will get their site mentioned in a major marketing campaign. It's almost like tagfishing on here.

It's not that I have a problem with games getting great reviews - there is just a part of me that wonders about this whenever I see commercials like that on tv.


As far as Bioshock: Infinite, I am excited as hell that it's out and am glad to hear it's getting good reviews because it's on its way to my house as I type this...
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Big budget games with lots of talented people on them tend to be of good quality. When they're not, like Aliens AC, Duke Nukem F, Homefront, and Warfighter, they're received accordingly.
 
Clear said:
I honestly wish the reviews were less positive.

Bioshock was extremely overrated, yet it seems few reviewers want to cop to the fact that its entire third act is mediocre and as such it never deserved the plethora of 10's it enjoyed.

Because of this I remain skeptical, despite really hoping that Infinite is as good as they say it is.
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It was a game critics game. Nothing against Bioshock, it's just that game critics, being who they are, don't represent gamers as well as they could.
 
I think people easily confuse criticism and cynicism. The role of the critic is not to act the strangely embittered, neckbeard-stroking forum dweller. It's like people expect a Middle American caricature of a restaurant critic. Most film critics not named Armond White don't approach a film wanting to dislike it. The greatest living film critic, Jonathan Rosenbaum, doesn't walk into a showing of a Michael Haneke film, gleefully rubbing his hands together exclaiming, "I can't wait to pick this apart!" Too many people seem to want nothing more than a takedown, or artificial negativity, in order to validate their cynicism in lieu of an honest write-up.

The games press is increasingly critical of big budget games. So, people should worry about more important things, such as the aforementioned honesty (and I do believe most outlets are honest) and the quality of the writing itself, which is pretty poor as compared to other fields of criticism.
 
Zia said:
I think people easily confuse criticism and cynicism. The role of the critic is not to act the strangely embittered, neckbeard-stroking forum dweller. It's like people expect a Middle American caricature of a restaurant critic. Most film critics not named Armond White don't approach a film wanting to dislike it. The greatest living film critic, Jonathan Rosenbaum, doesn't walk into a showing of a Michael Haneke film, gleefully rubbing his hands together exclaiming, "I can't wait to pick this apart!" Too many people seem to want nothing more than a takedown, or artificial negativity, in order to validate their cynicism in lieu of an honest write-up.

The games press is increasingly critical of big budget games. So, people should worry about more important things, such as the aforementioned honesty (and I do believe most outlets are honest) and the quality of the writing itself, which is pretty poor as compared to other fields of criticism.
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To speak to what Barkley's Justice was talking about, I don't think people are turned off by critics being positive and liking something. It's more the homogeneous positive response that makes people cynical.

I think a good recent example is Mass Effect 3 and its ending. As everyone knows, there was a massive backlash against it from many (and I refuse to acknowledge them as the "vocal minority", since there's no way in knowing that and serves only to discredit their opinions as saying that most people don't feel that way, which isn't even necessarily true), so much so that BioWare even went and released a patch that amended the ending.

Yet when it released, the gaming press unanimously praised the shit out of the game and the ending. So, I don't think people are necessarily bitter that people in the games press liked the ending, it's that basically everyone in the games press who reviewed the game loved it. Which was kind of a signal that, no matter the motivation behind their opinions, they really aren't representative of the gaming population as a whole at all.
 
Syrinx said:
To speak to what Barkley's Justice was talking about, I don't think people are turned off by critics being positive and liking something. It's more the homogeneous positive response that makes people cynical.
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I agree that this is the big problem, but I also think this is, to a point, what gamers want. Look at QT3 every time Tom Chick posts a negative review of a big game. Zelda TP 8.8. Or Uncharted 3 8/10 on Eurogamer (IIRC).

People spend months or years following these games, they get very emotionally invested, and out comes some website where a guy says hey this game you've been following isn't as good as you think. People go nuts.

I think the big problem with ME3 is that game reviewers were not as invested into the series as the fans were. I think those reviewers genuinely had no problem with the ending, or did not see the problem with the ending because they weren't as wrapped up in the series the way the diehards were. Different POV and neither side is wrong.
 
Syrinx said:
To speak to what Barkley's Justice was talking about, I don't think people are turned off by critics being positive and liking something. It's more the homogeneous positive response that makes people cynical.

I think a good recent example is Mass Effect 3 and its ending. As everyone knows, there was a massive backlash against it from many (and I refuse to acknowledge them as the "vocal minority", since there's no way in knowing that and serves only to discredit their opinions as saying that most people don't feel that way, which isn't even necessarily true), so much so that BioWare even went and released a patch that amended the ending.

Yet when it released, the gaming press unanimously praised the shit out of the game and the ending. So, I don't think people are necessarily bitter that people in the games press liked the ending, it's that basically everyone in the games press who reviewed the game loved it. Which was kind of a signal that, no matter the motivation behind their opinions, they really aren't representative of the gaming population as a whole at all.
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Well, I do think people are turned off by critics being "overly" positive. There's some very illogical gnashing of teeth earlier in this thread. I also think you are wrong when you say that critics aren't representative of the gaming population as a whole. Mass Effect 3 won many year's end awards and polls and sold many, many copies. I haven't played the game, and don't really have any desire to, but everyone I know that has played it loves it. Grand Theft Auto IV is a great example, as well. I constantly see it used as an example of how detached the press is from everyone else when it's actually a great example of how detached from reality tiny echo chambers scattered across the Internet are.
 
did any reviews talk about the completely idiotic save system on the PC? What were they thinking with 1 single autosave and no manual saves whatsoever?
 
Getting great reviews. I'm glad it's at least over 10hrs long. Is there backtracking like the first one? I hope it's a more streamlined experience with lots of different areas.

I really wasn't interested in this even though I knew it'd be good. But the more I see it and see review scores, looks great. I love the art style and concept of the flying city and airships. And the setting. I'd get the game for those things.
 
Zia said:
Well, I do think people are turned off by critics being "overly" positive. There's some very illogical gnashing of teeth earlier in this thread. I also think you are wrong when you say that critics aren't representative of the gaming population as a whole. Mass Effect 3 won many year's end awards and polls and sold many, many copies. I haven't played the game, and don't really have any desire to, but everyone I know that has played it loves it. Grand Theft Auto IV is a great example, as well. I constantly see it used as an example of how detached the press is from everyone else when it's actually a great example of how detached from reality tiny echo chambers scattered across the Internet are.
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Cannot possibly agree with this enough.
 
Zia said:
Well, I do think people are turned off by critics being "overly" positive. There's some very illogical gnashing of teeth earlier in this thread. I also think you are wrong when you say that critics aren't representative of the gaming population as a whole. Mass Effect 3 won many year's end awards and polls and sold many, many copies. I haven't played the game, and don't really have any desire to, but everyone I know that has played it loves it. Grand Theft Auto IV is a great example, as well. I constantly see it used as an example of how detached the press is from everyone else when it's actually a great example of how detached from reality tiny echo chambers scattered across the Internet are.
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Absolutely.
 
BillyBats said:
Paid off. What exactly do these reviewers get? Really? No jokes, no funny quips, what do they get that you know for a fact? I'm curious because I keep seeing this and seeing that guy with a Dorrito hat. Did he get paid by Dorrito's? How much? How much does a reviewer make? I'm guessing less than 30 k a year.
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I'm using 'paid off' as a catch all for any influencing factor: free trips, swag, NDAs and Embargos with really unfavorable conditions for writers, and yes even cash. Obviously unless someone does an investigative piece and exposes some of the damning details, the devil continues to be in them. But we occasionally get little cracks in the façade. The Jeff Gerstmann scandal. Tomb Raider site rebranding all over an 'exclusive' Tomb Raider review. How every AAA title, almost like clockwork, is guaranteed an 80 metacritic or more. The Polygon 9.5/7.0/4.5 shit. The list goes on forever. I don't even really have to mention Dorito Pope.

BillyBats said:
And why do so many hold video game reviewers up to this high standard? They most likely make less than all other print media and really get nothing in return. So if you're a guy making shit money, living with two buddies in a small apartment, taking the bus to work.....wouldn't you like to be "paid off". I can't believe that they get anything worth talking about.
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And this is the crux. Yes, they don't get paid lavish salaries and yes the temptation is there. I don't blame them for succumbing to the temptation, I only acknowledge that many have and therefore it's impossible to know which reviews to take seriously and which reviews to disregard.. rendering all of them pointless.

As an aside, I don't think it's a "high standard" to expect integrity with reviewers of any stripe. If you're getting paid $30,000 a year, there should still be expectations that go along with your job. And for a writer, maybe integrity is one of them expectations :P
 
Wow. So many apologists here. Open your eyes, people. The gaming industry and gaming "journalism" is a one huge stinking shithole. The standards are non-existent. Gamers are mostly children + nerds. Nobody cares about the opinion of children and nerds, that's why companies can get away with treating us like shit.
 
JanKowalski said:
Wow. So many apologists here. Open your eyes, people. The gaming industry and gaming "journalism" is a one huge stinking shithole. The standards are non-existent. Gamers are mostly children + nerds. Nobody cares about the opinion of children and nerds, that's why companies can get away with treating us like shit.
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Wow. So many cynics in here. Open your eyes, people. The internet "gamer social network" is a one huge stinking shithole. The standards are impossible to meet. And when a game does eventually come along that is by all accounts virtually a masterpiece, the cynics will simply deny it, because "it can't be. There's just no way, man. Nothing can be that good."
 
@ those who have played the game, is it as good as the reviews say or are the scores completely inflated due to hype, another case of gta4?
i played bioshock at launch, and while the atmosphere was great, the game was incredibly linear and gameplay dull. the novelty of rapture wears off about 1/4 into the game. and the metacritic/gamerankings scores are way too high for what the game was.
 
Muffdraul said:
Wow. So many cynics in here. Open your eyes, people. The internet "gamer social network" is a one huge stinking shithole. The standards are impossible to meet. And when a game does eventually come along that is by all accounts virtually a masterpiece, the cynics will simply deny it, because "it can't be. There's just no way, man. Nothing can be that good."
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Standards are impossible to meet? How about don't give PC gamers shitty ports for a start and give us products fit for our platform? Sooooooo impossible. You're so deluded it's sad really.
 
JanKowalski said:
Standards are impossible to meet? How about don't give PC gamers shitty ports for a start and give us products fit for our platform? Sooooooo impossible. You're so deluded it's sad really.
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So that's your problem with this game and why you assume the reviews must be inaccurate? Shitty PC port?
 
Twilight Princess said:
@ those who have played the game, is it as good as the reviews say or are the scores completely inflated due to hype, another case of gta4?
i played bioshock at launch, and while the atmosphere was great, the game was incredibly linear and gameplay dull. the novelty of rapture wears off about 1/4 into the game. and the metacritic/gamerankings scores are way too high for what the game was.
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It's overrated for sure, though still a good game. It's very linear but each area is pretty huge and has some scope for exploration, and the gameplay much more COD-like (two weapon limit, down-sight aiming, hordes of enemies, regenerating shield) than the original's preference for Doom (single arsenal of weapons, enemies mostly encountered in small groups). Personally, I much prefer the original's gunplay, the battles here get extremely tedious even with the exciting Skyhook mechanic allowing you to swoop around arenas as though on a rollercoaster. Columbia's internal logic is also far shakier than that of Rapture, despite being far more beautiful, and while the story gets completely overwrought in the climax and its most potent theme lost among a mess of others.

On the plus side, Elizabeth is an engaging companion, the narrative mystery works pretty well as a motivator to keep playing through the tedious shooty bits and in addition to the game's obviously stunning art direction, there's no shortage of charming little details hidden away in its corners. It's a 6/10 for me, a game I admire for its ambition and bravery more than I enjoy for its execution. Critics always surrender to hype and while I expect there will be backlash, the game should still come away with plenty of fans. I hope Levine does an interview at some point discussing his intentions in full spoilery detail, because I'm fascinated whether there's some justification to what comes across to me as very complex but messy writing.
 
Muffdraul said:
So that's your problem with this game and why you assume the reviews must be inaccurate? Shitty PC port?
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I made a general statement about the gaming industry and gaming journalism. Bioshock Infinite is a good game, but 96/100 is ridiculously "generous". The PC port is average.

The FOV slider is LOL. Max setting is something like 80 probably, which is even bigger LOL. Mouse sensitivity setting is LOL. And the most offensive thing about it is that it was exactly the same in Bioshock 1 and 2. Shows how many fucks the they give about fan feedback. Mouse aiming feels bad. There is stuttering even on high-end gaming PCs. The sprinting and walking toggles are implemented in a retarded way. That's the issues i noticed in my 30 minutes of playing the game.

EDIT: I forgot about the 2 weapon limit which is LOL in a PC shooter.
 
JanKowalski said:
I made a general statement about the gaming industry and gaming journalism. Bioshock Infinite is a good game, but 96/100 is ridiculously "generous". The PC port is average.
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Thank you, perfect illustration of what I meant about setting standards impossibly high. Jesus Christ.
 
Any good spoiler free reviews that compare PS3, Xbox and PC performance? Nothing on Lens of Truth yet. Trying to decide what platform I buy the game on.
 
JanKowalski said:
The FOV slider is LOL. Max setting is something like 80 probably, which is even bigger LOL. Mouse sensitivity setting is LOL. And the most offensive thing about it is that it was exactly the same in Bioshock 1 and 2. Shows how many fucks the they give about fan feedback. Mouse aiming feels bad. There is stuttering even on high-end gaming PCs. The sprinting and walking toggles are implemented in a retarded way. That's the issues i notice in my 30 minutes of playing the game.
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And yet even with all of that it still shits on the console versions from a great height.
 
I may gamefly this just to check it out. I LOVED the first couple of hour in the initial Bioshock, but thought it fell way off afterward. I don't believe I've tried the second one(and if I did, me not remembering should tell me something), so maybe I'll check this one out and see if it recaptures some of what I liked.
 
JanKowalski said:
No shit it's better than something running on 8 year old hardware. Those things I mentioned are BASIC standards for a proper PC game.
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From what I've seen almost all of the PC players are pretty happy with it, barring those with shitty rigs which aren't able to run it well. All in all I'd say your list is nitpicky. You definitely strike me as the sort who would take one look at the Venus de Milo and immediately bitch about the missing arms.
 
Muffdraul said:
From what I've seen almost all of the PC players are pretty happy with it, barring those with shitty rigs which aren't able to run it well. All in all I'd say your list is nitpicky. You definitely strike me as the sort who would take one look at the Venus de Milo and immediately bitch about the missing arms.
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Hype effect + the game was really cheap, you will see more objective feedback in a while.

If you think compaining about low FOV and bad mouse aiming is nitpicking then we have nothing further to discuss.
 
Twilight Princess said:
@ those who have played the game, is it as good as the reviews say or are the scores completely inflated due to hype, another case of gta4?
i played bioshock at launch, and while the atmosphere was great, the game was incredibly linear and gameplay dull. the novelty of rapture wears off about 1/4 into the game. and the metacritic/gamerankings scores are way too high for what the game was.
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It is overhyped, but that doesn't matter, because it will be overhyped on GAF too.
 
Muffdraul said:
And when a game does eventually come along that is by all accounts virtually a masterpiece, the cynics will simply deny it, because "it can't be. There's just no way, man. Nothing can be that good."
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Cynicism? Statements like these,

So, when will gaming have its Citizen Kane moment? Forget that. When will anything else have its BioShock Infinite moment?
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I don't know how else to tell you that this is the game videogames were made for. It’s the game every other designer wishes they could make. It’s a watershed moment for our industry, and I’d be hard pressed to tell you that anything that came before is better. More so, however, I can’t imagine that anything else, in my lifetime, will top this.
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If you can make it through the game without being emotionally affected - or even experiencing a bit of an existential crisis - you need to check your pulse immediately.
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are worse than fanboy drivel, and showcase a masturbatory behaviour devoid of any capacity for critical thinking. Those statements are so cringeworthy that one doesn't even need to bother investigating any evidence presented to support the statements.
 
GravityMan said:
And here's Tom Chick's review: http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2013/03/26/bioshock-infinites-infinite-space-bounded-in-a-nutshell/
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The identity mysteries of the previous Bioshocks were perfectly served by their mute and faceless protagonists. But Bioshock Infinite attempts an Uncharted style relationship between two characters. It doesn’t work as well as it needs to. Booker DeWitt, ably if also unremarkably acted by Troy Baker, would be a fine figure in a novel or a movie. But in a game driven by his relationship with Elizabeth, Bioshock Infinite snags on the issue of a third-person protagonist in a first-person game. What does Booker look like? How does he feel? How is he reacting to what Elizabeth tells him? What does he do when I press X to “comfort Elizabeth”? Is there any subtext when he makes a choice? How do they look at each other? Does he smile? An actor’s face belongs here. There isn’t one.​

This brings up an interesting point. Any FPS where I connected to the voiced protagonist or there was any depth to them, had cutscenes where I could see him from time to time.

idCJnkZhd30ku.jpg


Darkness 1 and 2, Chronicles of Riddick, Timesplitters, Deus Ex Human Revolution.
 
GravityMan said:
And here's Tom Chick's review: http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2013/03/26/bioshock-infinites-infinite-space-bounded-in-a-nutshell/

3 stars (out of 5)
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Beyond just the score, the review was pretty coherent and made interesting points. I haven't played the game yet so I can't say I agree or disagree, even though it's one of these games I want to love, but this doesn't look like a dissenting score for the sake of dissension. It's just, you know, an articulated opinion.
 
You guys want a balanced review...just read the rockpapershotgun one....no score and everything said was on point in terms of analysis without being overly positive nor destructively critical..
 
Gully State said:
You guys want a balanced review...just read the rockpapershotgun one....no score and everything said was on point in terms of analysis without being overly positive nor destructively critical..
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OP only posted the most positive reviews, so didn't get to read that one yet. Will do now!
 
Of the three big releases this year it's definitely: Crysis 3 > Tomb Raider > Bioshock for me. So IOW overrated, but not a bad game.

However while Bioshock's graphics are good, the animations make me long for Half Life 2. It's long since I played that game but they were far less creepy in my memories.
 
JanKowalski said:
I made a general statement about the gaming industry and gaming journalism. Bioshock Infinite is a good game, but 96/100 is ridiculously "generous". The PC port is average.

The FOV slider is LOL. Max setting is something like 80 probably, which is even bigger LOL. Mouse sensitivity setting is LOL. And the most offensive thing about it is that it was exactly the same in Bioshock 1 and 2. Shows how many fucks the they give about fan feedback. Mouse aiming feels bad. There is stuttering even on high-end gaming PCs. The sprinting and walking toggles are implemented in a retarded way. That's the issues i noticed in my 30 minutes of playing the game.

EDIT: I forgot about the 2 weapon limit which is LOL in a PC shooter.
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Just because we didn't get everything exactly right really doesn't mean we decided to ignore PC gamers. We did a great deal and want to learn from our mistakes every time we make them. We listened when we set out to make this and we're listening now that it's out. Framing things as though you're Alex Jones isn't necessary.
 
Lancehead said:
Cynicism? Statements like these,





are worse than fanboy drivel, and showcase a masturbatory behaviour devoid of any capacity for critical thinking. Those statements are so cringeworthy that one doesn't even need to bother investigating any evidence presented to support the statements.
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If the people who wrote those lines were being honest in their opinion, that they truly were that impressed and that excited, then that's all that counts. All they're doing is giving their opinion. If a game inspires professional reviewers to lose their shit and regress into 9th grader level hyperbole, then maybe it's a sign that the game is actually doing something right. Even if it isn't the 11 out of 10/Second Coming of Jesus Christ that they claim it is.
 
GMN said:
it's really quite sad to see people actively seek out negative reviews because everything else is just too positive.
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It speaks volumes about the echo chamber that is modern game journalism.

Muffdraul said:
If the people who wrote those lines were being honest in their opinion, that they truly were that impressed and that excited, then that's all that counts. All they're doing is giving their opinion. If a game inspires professional reviewers to lose their shit and regress into 9th grader level hyperbole, then maybe it's a sign that the game is actually doing something right. Even if it isn't the 11 out of 10/Second Coming of Jesus Christ that they claim it is.
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Then it speaks about their inability to write with restraint and maturity. Why should video games deserve any less level-headed criticism than other forms of media? Just because it's interactive? That's no excuse to foam at the mouth, whether with too much praise or too much bile. I'm not saying there isn't a room for wacky highly-snarky/fanboy journalism, but that should not be the norm in game journalism, just as in film/television/book/music criticism.
 
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