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[B!TCH]

You can't really begin to address this issue unless you are serious about reforming education and the tax code (or at least the part of it that applies to public schools). Barack Obama is the first politician in a very long time to actually try to address these issues and his own party is fighting back against him on it.

 

[Hari Seldon]

What about reinforcing positive behavior instead? Most negative reinforcement has the consequence of heightening fear and aggression in the recipient, surely traits that many associate with disenfranchised young black men? Surely in the actual home beatings don't seem to be working as well as advertised, given the preponderance of child abuse in low-income neighborhoods and families?

Sure, you can have positive reinforcement. But if a kid is not respecting the teacher and disrupting the class, what are you supposed to do, give them a cupcake? Spankings have worked for thousands of years and all of a sudden some jackass hippie decided they don't work and we don't do it anymore.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

came in to say this. will stay to say more.

I'm not sure how knowledgeable GAF-proper is regarding the layers of issues at play here. of the posts I have read, I can certainly say, "not most". As such, I'm not sure what can be accomplished in this thread. Few are in a position to implement changes. I'd assume most here are not black and have few tie-ins with the Black community. Fewer still are actually active in any sort of groups that focus on improving the condition of minorities or women.

We are good at pontificating behind keyboards, though.

That said, as a black man, a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., the National Society of Black Engineers, and Big Brothers, I'd assume I'm more active than 99.999% of our forumites will be in actually getting some shit done. Speaking right to the people being affected? Yep, I've done that. Speaking at billion-dollar corporation events in an effort to get money moving for the cause? Yep, I've done that.

What I will say is that that issues at play are multi-pronged. They cannot be adequately solved amongst forumites who are under-educated about the issues (admit it, that's what we collectively represent).

Issues include (but are not limited to): self-esteem, direction, American definitions of beauty and intelligence...and the struggle to find a place, male abandonment (that finds its roots in 300 years of slavery), societal disregard and disdain (which finds its roots in slavery, mediocre teacher support), poor home support and training, 100 years of economic oppression, white flight, racial steering, corrupt police and lack of support from emergency services, lack of trust in the medical industry (secondary to 300 years of documented corruption, experimentation and destruction of lives), dilapidated schools, overpopulated schools, classrooms being run by teachers who neither majored nor minored in the subject they're teaching, teacher corruption (changing grades, teaching to tests), lack of gainful employment opportunities in urban areas (creating huge transportation issues), lack of role models, lack of both parents, lack of inheritance and property ownership (the building blocks of wealth), role of black women, lack of political power, prison and the judicial system injustices broadly, and lack of hope.

I could go on, but those are some topics that have to be looked at in this web of challenges. Each one of those issues could have its own long, introspective thread. Each has several thick books dedicated to its study.

To be sure, there is no singular solution. There is no "just fix a and all will be well." Believing otherwise only serves to remind people like me that most have no clue about the height, width and breath of the issues you're actually attempting to discuss. Hell, you can't deal with issues like these without being able to see the whole picture...and you can't do that with limited insight. It'd be like trying to fix the global economy without ever having taken an Economics class (or at least read some books on the subject). If you recognize that scope of an economy and all of its mechanisms is one that is extraordinary and difficult to grasp in concept, how much moreso a multiplicity of people and cultures that are described as simply "black people"?

If you think about these issues and don't feel the kind of tension you'd feel staring up Mt. Everest with an idea to climb it, you don't know enough about the depth of issues to help.

I'll take my leave now. If someone would like to find out ways to help, they can PM me. Talking on the web about stuff is bullshit anyways. Regards.

couldn't of said it better myself.

 

[SonnyBoy]

came in to say this. will stay to say more.

I'm not sure how knowledgeable GAF-proper is regarding the layers of issues at play here. of the posts I have read, I can certainly say, "not most". As such, I'm not sure what can be accomplished in this thread. Few are in a position to implement changes. I'd assume most here are not black and have few tie-ins with the Black community. Fewer still are actually active in any sort of groups that focus on improving the condition of minorities or women.

We are good at pontificating behind keyboards, though.

That said, as a black man, a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., the National Society of Black Engineers, and Big Brothers, I'd assume I'm more active than 99.999% of our forumites will be in actually getting some shit done. Speaking right to the people being affected? Yep, I've done that. Speaking at billion-dollar corporation events in an effort to get money moving for the cause? Yep, I've done that.

What I will say is that that issues at play are multi-pronged. They cannot be adequately solved amongst forumites who are under-educated about the issues (admit it, that's what we collectively represent).

Issues include (but are not limited to): self-esteem, direction, American definitions of beauty and intelligence...and the struggle to find a place, male abandonment (that finds its roots in 300 years of slavery), societal disregard and disdain (which finds its roots in slavery, mediocre teacher support), poor home support and training, 100 years of economic oppression, white flight, racial steering, corrupt police and lack of support from emergency services, lack of trust in the medical industry (secondary to 300 years of documented corruption, experimentation and destruction of lives), dilapidated schools, overpopulated schools, classrooms being run by teachers who neither majored nor minored in the subject they're teaching, teacher corruption (changing grades, teaching to tests), lack of gainful employment opportunities in urban areas (creating huge transportation issues), lack of role models, lack of both parents, lack of inheritance and property ownership (the building blocks of wealth), role of black women, lack of political power, prison and the judicial system injustices broadly, and lack of hope.

I could go on, but those are some topics that have to be looked at in this web of challenges. Each one of those issues could have its own long, introspective thread. Each has several thick books dedicated to its study.

To be sure, there is no singular solution. There is no "just fix a and all will be well." Believing otherwise only serves to remind people like me that most have no clue about the height, width and breath of the issues you're actually attempting to discuss. Hell, you can't deal with issues like these without being able to see the whole picture...and you can't do that with limited insight. It'd be like trying to fix the global economy without ever having taken an Economics class (or at least read some books on the subject). If you recognize that scope of an economy and all of its mechanisms is one that is extraordinary and difficult to grasp in concept, how much moreso a multiplicity of people and cultures that are described as simply "black people"?

If you think about these issues and don't feel the kind of tension you'd feel staring up Mt. Everest with an idea to climb it, you don't know enough about the depth of issues to help.

I'll take my leave now. If someone would like to find out ways to help, they can PM me. Talking on the web about stuff is bullshit anyways. Regards.

great post man... /thread

 

[ScOULaris]

While I appreciate the qualified insight that Dreams-Visions was able to share with us, I don't appreciate his tone with regard to "forumites." Nobody in this thread is aiming to actively solve the problem by virtue of the discussion alone. A forum is for talking about issues like this with other like-minded and not-so-like-minded people of all different ages, locations, and backgrounds. Judged against that premise, this thread is doing its job and moving along nicely.

Some people come into this thread with less experience with the topic than others. As for you, we'll take your contributions into consideration along with everyone else's, but check the condescension at the door.

 

[besada]

Institutional racism probably deserves a bullet point too.

And poverty, which is dovetailed into point five. It's not black people alone who get wrapped up in drug culture, it's poor people. That black Americans are more likely to be poor than white American increases their chances of seeing the drug market as a way to survive and prosper.

 

[UnblessedSoul]

Being gangsta is how they roll, just leave them be its their loss

 

[SonnyBoy]

Some people come into this thread with less experience with the topic than others...

I don't think you specifically should take any offense to that. He's talking those who display brash and unwavering ignorance.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Being gangsta is how they roll, just leave them be its their loss

 

[CrazyDogg77]

Being gangsta is how they roll, just leave them be its their loss

Please tell me you are kidding.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I don't think you specifically should take any offense to that. He's talking those who display brash and unwavering ignorance.

although I might add, there are plenty who have shown that quality in this thread. to much of it just drags the discussion down.

Being gangsta is how they roll, just leave them be its their loss

believe it or not, this isn't an example..here we have a person just trying to hard to be funny and failing miserably.

 

[JGS]

/thread

That sums it all up. We are not going to solve this issue on this forum. We all play a very small role in the issue and need to do our part to help change the status quo.

That's the answer. There's no particular reason to attempt and digest a way to solve all of it, but the solution is simpler than what many think. It's not primarily racism, incarceration, or anything like that. It's acceptance of being an underperformer which is, again, a personal matter that not all have even come close to accepting.

Again, the only way to conquer it is individually - one black male at a time. This isn't really possible 100% since it's not possible for any race, but it can definitely be done to the norm.

 

[la flama blanca]

Being gangsta is how they roll, just leave them be its their loss

If you are serious, then fuck you for posting something so stupid after another member basically ended this thread with some truth.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Why does every article about African people I read in OT always have to be negative?

Did you miss all the booty threads? Those are not inherently negative. I would say they have a huge upside.

It's too complex to put one answer down. It definitely would help if education was a virtue. It would help if college and advance degrees were 'expected'. I can see the difference in my kid. We expect him to get all A's and expect him to do well. He has no other choice. College and advance degrees will be expected. Christian morals will be expected from him and he won't know different. Other cultures just expect their kids to do well and do not accept anything else. Just look at the expectations on Asians. When people let the kids slide or fall off onto the wrong path, they fail. You can blame divorce but I came from a divorced family and my mom just expected certain things (A's, scholarships to college, an advance degree).

 

[djtiesto]

Dissolution of the nuclear family and the high illegitimacy rate. I'd imagine the black community is still feeling the effects of the crack epidemic of the early 90's.

 

[computers putin']

I'm glad Dream Vision posted what he did. There are so many social and economic issues at hand that looking at any one issue as the root cause for the problems in the black community is a bit foolish.

 

[ScOULaris]

I'm glad Dream Vision posted what he did. There are so many social and economic issues at hand that looking at any one issue as the root cause for the problems in the black community is a bit foolish.

To be fair, in the OP I asked "What is the most significant contributing factor?"

The responses in this thread seem to suggest that lack of a nuclear family for the majority of black males in America is the most significant.

 

[samus i am]

To be fair, in the OP I asked "What is the most significant contributing factor?"

The responses in this thread seem to suggest that lack of a nuclear family for the majority of black males in America is the most significant.

And to be fair:

There are so many social and economic issues at hand that looking at any one issue as the root cause for the problems in the black community is a bit foolish.

 

[hwalker84]

As a Black man the state my people are in really pains me. What pains me even more is that the plight has made it into my own family.

My sister (12yrs older than I) and I where raised in the same environment but she decided to gravitate towards the ghetto even though we weren't raised in one. Then came the usual cycle got pregnant with a guy who has multiple kids, Kids father isn't in their life, living on welfare, now the cycle has repeat itself.

My niece who was in beauty school gets pregnant by a man who I've never met or seen since the baby has been born 1 1/2 month ago. My nephew impregnates his girlfriend who's putting herself through college while he didn't even have his GED until a few months ago (about to be 21).

There are so many problems that need fixing but I beg you ladies please stop letting these uneducated fatherless no good bums with multiple kids already from different women get you pregnant. Force these men to "step their game up". Force them to educate themselves. Cut the pussy supply line off for these men and see how long this goes on.

 

[BorkBork]

While I appreciate the qualified insight that Dreams-Visions was able to share with us, I don't appreciate his tone with regard to "forumites." Nobody in this thread is aiming to actively solve the problem by virtue of the discussion alone. A forum is for talking about issues like this with other like-minded and not-so-like-minded people of all different ages, locations, and backgrounds. Judged against that premise, this thread is doing its job and moving along nicely.

Some people come into this thread with less experience with the topic than others. As for you, we'll take your contributions into consideration along with everyone else's, but check the condescension at the door.

Agreed. I find this thread to be very useful in expanding my awareness of this issue. Obviously there is a lot to sift through, but there are enough substantive posts to stimulate some thoughtful discussion. There is also a lot of value in just the sharing of personal narratives.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Do these statistics include immigrants from Africa? I wonder how many actual African immigrants are in the US (I suppose I could just look that up). Every person I've met from Africa proper here in Seattle has come across as an extremely intelligent and hard working. Most people I've met hold college degrees or are putting themselves through school.

I suppose I don't really have anything to add to the discussion, but I guess I was just wondering what percentage African immigrants make up of the overall 'black' population.

 

[Johann]

To be fair, in the OP I asked "What is the most significant contributing factor?"

The responses in this thread seem to suggest that lack of a nuclear family for the majority of black males in America is the most significant.

I would say the biggest factor is their involuntary integration into America. If you look at the poorest performing groups in America (African-Americans and Native Americans), then you'll see that both groups were involuntarily brought into the American union. We see this throughout history, such as in colonial Africa or South East Asia. Forcibly moving people into a new environment or creating a new community for them usually has a tremendous negative on them. Slavery may have occurred hundreds of years ago but it's effects are still felt by the black community. This is a community that is extremely short-sighted in their decisions. They don't believe they have a future because they didn't have a future for hundred of years. The issues facing black Americans today, such as unwanted pregnancies rates and illiteracy, are carryovers from a slave society. In a slave society, you could be punished for being literate and your family could be sold down the river. This isn't an on/off switch that you can fix by simply freeing them from slavery.

Conversely, if you look at the best performing groups in America's history (Jews, Japanese-Americans, Hindu Indians going by median income), then you'll see that these groups actively choose to enter the United States. They are may have been domestic factors that pushed them but they did decide to voluntarily enter the United States. People from these communities tend to have a long-term plan for the future, strong family structure, and are willing to make short-term sacrifices to ensure stability and security. For example, sexual promiscuity is discouraged and arranged marriages are common. Second generation Japanese American children were praised by teachers for their good behavior and good grades. They were expected to perform well in school and misbehavior would bring shame on their family.

The power to chose to enter and be a part of America is incredibly potent. These days, the blacks who have very good grades, enter good colleges, and receive money from black scholarships are often international students from Africa or the Caribbean. These students chose to be part of America and face pressure to perform well. Once you are born into a society that is short-sighted and doesn't believe in having a future, it's incredibly difficult to break out of it.

 

[ScOULaris]

I would say the biggest factor is their involuntary integration into America. If you look at the poorest performing groups in America (African-Americans and Native Americans), then you'll see that both groups were involuntarily brought into the American union. We see this throughout history, such as in colonial Africa or South East Asia. Forcibly moving people into a new environment or creating a new community for them usually has a tremendous negative on them. Slavery may have occurred hundreds of years ago but it's effects are still felt by the black community. This is a community that is extremely short-sighted in their decisions. They don't believe they have a future because they didn't have a future for hundred of years. The issues facing black Americans today, such as unwanted pregnancies rates and illiteracy, are carryovers from a slave society. In a slave society, you could be punished for being literate and your family could be sold down the river. This isn't an on/off switch that you can fix by simply freeing them from slavery.

Conversely, if you look at the best performing groups in America's history (Jews, Japanese-Americans, Hindu Indians going by median income), then you'll see that these groups actively choose to enter the United States. They are may have been domestic factors that pushed them but they did decide to voluntarily enter the United States. People from these communities tend to have a long-term plan for the future, strong family structure, and are willing to make short-term sacrifices to ensure stability and security. For example, sexual promiscuity is discouraged and arranged marriages are common. Second generation Japanese American children were praised by teachers for their good behavior and good grades. They were expected to perform well in school and misbehavior would bring shame on their family.

The power to chose to enter and be a part of America is incredibly potent. These days, the blacks who have very good grades, enter good colleges, and receive money from black scholarships are often international students from Africa or the Caribbean. These students chose to be part of America and face pressure to perform well. Once you are born into a society that is short-sighted and doesn't believe in having a future, it's incredibly difficult to break out of it.

Exactly the kind of post I was looking for when I made this thread. Well done, sir. You touch upon an interesting wrinkle that nobody has mentioned yet.

 

[captmcblack]

Dreams-Visions, amazing post.

That is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stated in a public forum and addressed exactly if we're ever going to make any progress on even understanding the issues, much less sorting them out.

Imagine the President stating that in an address on TV, and then inviting people to discuss those ideas at length...that's what I want to see. The reality of those things are unforgiving; they are uncomfortable for pretty much everyone that isn't black (and could even be uncomfortable for black people). The reality of those things makes people run to disregard the topics, run behind the easy outs - bootstraps, and reverse racism, and "well i didn't enslave/discriminate against anyone so its not my problem" and so on.

We will never be able to grow past it for as long as we don't address it directly, and specifically, and painfully. This country was literally created on the backs of those issues, and by the hands of many of the people those issues affect. We can't turn away forever.

It's not over yet.
Until my blackness, and the blackness of others isn't unforgivable or offensive societally, it will never really be over.

(EDIT: fantastic post, Johann!)
(EDIT 2: I'm in NSBE as well, Dreams. Anyone else here in NSBE?)

 

[ymmv]

I would say the biggest factor is their involuntary integration into America. If you look at the poorest performing groups in America (African-Americans and Native Americans), then you'll see that both groups were involuntarily brought into the American union. We see this throughout history, such as in colonial Africa or South East Asia. Forcibly moving people into a new environment or creating a new community for them usually has a tremendous negative on them. Slavery may have occurred hundreds of years ago but it's effects are still felt by the black community. This is a community that is extremely short-sighted in their decisions. They don't believe they have a future because they didn't have a future for hundred of years. The issues facing black Americans today, such as unwanted pregnancies rates and illiteracy, are carryovers from a slave society. In a slave society, you could be punished for being literate and your family could be sold down the river. This isn't an on/off switch that you can fix by simply freeing them from slavery.

So why is that the black family structure has only started disintegrating since the 1970ies? What we're now seeing is a recent development.

 

[Devolution]

To be fair, in the OP I asked "What is the most significant contributing factor?"

The responses in this thread seem to suggest that lack of a nuclear family for the majority of black males in America is the most significant.

Dwindling it down to the most significant factor is pointless. Racism, economic warfare, self-hatred issues within the community, oh hell just read Dream Visions post, should just be the end of the thread right there.

 

[Takuan]

Exactly the kind of post I was looking for when I made this thread. Well done, sir. You touch upon an interesting wrinkle that nobody has mentioned yet.

Really? I think it's full of nonsense, for reasons that have already been touched upon in this thread.

 

[MikeTyson]

believe it or not, this isn't an example..here we have a person just trying to hard to be funny and failing miserably.

I thought it was funny.

 

[JCX]

Captmcblack and dreams-visions have the best posts in these kinds of threads.

 

[DY_nasty]

Dreams-Visions, amazing post.

That is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stated in a public forum and addressed exactly if we're ever going to make any progress on even understanding the issues, much less sorting them out.

Imagine the President stating that in an address on TV, and then inviting people to discuss those ideas at length...that's what I want to see. The reality of those things are unforgiving; they are uncomfortable for pretty much everyone that isn't black (and could even be uncomfortable for black people). The reality of those things makes people run to disregard the topics, run behind the easy outs - bootstraps, and reverse racism, and "well i didn't enslave/discriminate against anyone so its not my problem" and so on.

We will never be able to grow past it for as long as we don't address it directly, and specifically, and painfully. This country was literally created on the backs of those issues, and by the hands of many of the people those issues affect. We can't turn away forever.

It's not over yet.
Until my blackness, and the blackness of others isn't unforgivable or offensive societally, it will never really be over.

(EDIT: fantastic post, Johann!)
(EDIT 2: I'm in NSBE as well, Dreams. Anyone else here in NSBE?)

Right here.

Dreams is a better man than me though. I was involved with community work and big brother programs for 4 years before I couldn't take it anymore. No matter what I did, those kids had to go back home at the end of the day and get fucked all over again.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

You can't bear the burden of all your peers - but you and people that are going through what you have been through can repeat catchy salient memes such as - You gotta play the game to beat the game (i.e. a counteract to the retarded anti-intellectualism meme).

On one hand, it still rallies a sense of black pride; us versus them thing - but it's basically exploiting simple instincts to stem damaging and counterproductive beliefs within the community.

Can you explain what that first comment about playing the game means a little more?

 

[DY_nasty]

So why is that the black family structure has only started disintegrating since the 1970ies? What we're now seeing is a recent development.

That's not true at all. I don't know where you're pulling that from.

 

[Ripclawe]

Change from embracing the *igga culture, family structure back to normal are two big steps in the right direction.

 

[ScOULaris]

Change from embracing the *igga culture, family structure back to normal are two big steps in the right direction.

That's not gonna happen on its own. Having a nuclear family is "acting white" in a lot of social circles.

 

[RevDM]

So it sounds like Black women are doing okay for the most part. Sounds like it would be more of a cultural construct than a socioeconomic one. Men should be encouraged to perform as well as their female counterparts.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

That's not gonna happen on its own. Having a nuclear family is "acting white" in a lot of social circles.

True and the nigga culture is presented more in the media. Those are the guys seen as successful not men who take care of their families and hold down a job to support them.

 

[Devolution]

True and the nigga culture is presented more in the media. Those are the guys seen as successful not men who take care of their families and hold down a job to support them.

Was going to say this. Media portrayals of black families are pretty shit. At least Family Matters and Fresh Prince showed nuclear families (as well as having hilarious writing). Hughleys sucked.

 

[captmcblack]

Almost any quasi-positive, non-hood thing you do can/is considered "acting white" in black American culture...which is funny, because literally using makeup to lighten your skin or straightening your naturally-kinky hair is not regarded with the same venom.

Even the idea/phrase "acting white" is absurd; it raises whiteness as superior and at the same time removes logical, normal things like going to school or speaking properly from the realm of being black...as if it should be out of the ordinary to want to go to school and do well, or speak proper English or something.

It's funny how much we hate ourselves sometimes.

(EDIT: don't get me started on media portrayal. We don't have The Cosby Show. We don't have A Different World, or Living Single. We don't even have My Wife and Kids anymore. Where could we see successful black people in the black community in the media? There's so much more than being Lebron or Drake, but that's not covered.)

 

[Devolution]

Almost any quasi-positive, non-hood thing you do can/is considered "acting white" in black American culture...which is funny, because literally using makeup to lighten your skin or straightening your naturally-kinky hair is not regarded with the same venom.

Even the idea/phrase "acting white" is absurd; it raises whiteness as superior and at the same time removes logical, normal things like going to school or speaking properly from the realm of being black...as if it should be out of the ordinary to want to go to school and do well, or speak proper English or something.

It's funny how much we hate ourselves sometimes.

It's just sad. I've watched my best friend struggle with the whole "oreo" bullshit. I used to think the name was funny and cute when I was ignorant of just what it really meant. He says he doesn't care anymore but I can tell it still grates on him that what he considers to be acting like a decent well rounded person is "being an oreo."

 

[Something Wicked]

As some of you have already pointed out, certain trends of "anti-intellectualism" within the African-American communities arouse during the 1970s- after the Civil Rights Movement.

As I've stated in a previous thread the main reasons are:

A) the federal, state, and local governments encouraging generational poverty via excessive or more so, unregulated/unchecked welfare subsides

B) the drug trade- kids would rather make money buying and selling drugs versus staying in or paying attention in high school

Both of which primarily commenced during the 1970s- though the oil embargo and economic stagnation of the US did not help either.

Having national advertising campaigns of trying to guilt-trip teenage fathers into staying with and helping raise their children are not going to have a major effect en masse by this point. Such campaigns actually already do exist- along with many "scared straight" and "stay in school" messages as well. These campaign slogans go in one ear and right out the other for many of the teenagers/young people in their early 20s that are apart of this "generational poverty" cycle. The temptations of drug money and even highly subsidized housing/welfare checks are too high for many of these kids to motivate themselves to improve their lives via education, which everyone the United States today has the opportunity to initially receive such education for free.

Solutions: We need to turn down or turn off the sources that create the generational poverty cycle. Legalizing all drugs will not happen- marijuana perhaps at some point, but certainly not heroin, crack, oxy w/o prescriptions, and meth. Thus, we must need to continue tackling the major sources of drug production- Colombia (cocaine), Afghanistan (heroin), and the good ol' US of A (meth/prescription painkillers). Also, we need much greater regulation in the types of products welfare recipient purchase with their welfare checks/EBT cards. This will require far greater vigilance from state welfare department employees, which is not all-too-present currently throughout the US.

I will also add that the problems above are not exclusive to African Americans. Similar problems exist within many Latino communities and rural and urban white communities as well. Europe is increasingly seeing similar problems within new immigrant groups and other communities too.

Lastly, to those saying "what about some positive stories about black America?," I suggest you look up and post articles on the more recent rise of the African American middle class. Look at places particularly in or around Atlanta, New York, Boston, or LA and you'll that many African Americans are noticeably wealthier today than the early 1990s. It's cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, Buffalo, parts of Chicago and Philadelphia, and regions like central California are the most in trouble with crime and generational poverty.

 

[SleepyJohn11]

Ugh, being a black college student, these threads depress the hell of me. I may want stop reading this so I can not feel down enough to stop doing my schoolwork.

But I am curious about something:

That's not gonna happen on its own. Having a nuclear family is "acting white" in a lot of social circles.

Definitely seen that used around. But I have a question for you guys, non-Black Gaf particularly "What is Black?" or "What is acting/being Black?" to you guys? If race is social construct, I want to see this get ..."deconstructed".

 

[CrazyDogg77]

Almost any quasi-positive, non-hood thing you do can/is considered "acting white" in black American culture...which is funny, because literally using makeup to lighten your skin or straightening your naturally-kinky hair is not regarded with the same venom.

Even the idea/phrase "acting white" is absurd; it raises whiteness as superior and at the same time removes logical, normal things like going to school or speaking properly from the realm of being black...as if it should be out of the ordinary to want to go to school and do well, or speak proper English or something.

It's funny how much we hate ourselves sometimes.

This is a really great post. And sometimes it something as small as how you talk and what sports you play. I've been having to deal with this bs as I prepare for college because of the schools I'm considering. The logical thing would be for black people to support a young black guy reaching for success but he gets beat down the most by them it seems.

 

[speedline]

Being gangsta is how they roll, just leave them be its their loss

I'm not saying this is the correct response, but it is becoming frustrating for the educators and leaders who have been trying to help. At some point people will begin to wash their hands and not trouble themselves with it. The "not my problem" approach.

 

[Devolution]

Ugh, being a black college student, these threads depress the hell of me. I may want stop reading this so I can not feel down enough to stop doing my schoolwork.

But I am curious about something:

Definitely seen that used around. But I have a question for you guys, non-Black Gaf particularly "What is Black?" or "What is acting/being Black?" to you guys? If race is social construct, I want to see this get ..."deconstructed".

People tend to conflate acting "ghetto", unintelligent, illiterate etc with black. As someone who's met people of all races who act this way, I find it stupid but I realize it happens.

 

[iamblades]

That's not true at all. I don't know where you're pulling that from.

It is true, but it's also true for white families as well, just that the numbers for black families dropped farther.

It's also true that the crime rate among blacks didn't spike until around then either, and the black crime rate climbed higher than the crime rate for the rest of the country.

Which is not to say that events prior to that have no relevance, they certainly do. It's just worth noting that in certain ways blacks have gone backwards and to examine why.

IMO the drug war and the resultant/simultaneous white flight and ghettoization of american inner cities is a far more influential factor in causing the current situation in the black community than all the years of slavery and oppression. Slavery and Jim Crow didn't turn black people into a defacto criminal underclass, the war on drugs did that.

Point being it might be worth looking at some actual policies that are continuing to cause real lasting damage to this day instead of dwelling on hundreds of years of history that can't be changed or undone.

 

[Dali]

Almost any quasi-positive, non-hood thing you do can/is considered "acting white" in black American culture...which is funny, because literally using makeup to lighten your skin or straightening your naturally-kinky hair is not regarded with the same venom.

Even the idea/phrase "acting white" is absurd; it raises whiteness as superior and at the same time removes logical, normal things like going to school or speaking properly from the realm of being black...as if it should be out of the ordinary to want to go to school and do well, or speak proper English or something.

It's funny how much we hate ourselves sometimes.

(EDIT: don't get me started on media portrayal. We don't have The Cosby Show. We don't have A Different World, or Living Single. We don't even have My Wife and Kids anymore. Where could we see successful black people in the black community in the media? There's so much more than being Lebron or Drake, but that's not covered.)

Are We There Yet? The Game? C'mon man, The Game!!

The Game is like Living Single only replace responsible business professionals with pro-athlete, man-children... successful pro-athlete manchildren. How you gonna say black community aint got successful media representations? Oh yeah and don't forget House of Pain? Check. Mate.

 

[ScOULaris]

This is a really great post. And sometimes it something as small as how you talk and what sports you play. I've been having to deal with this bs as I prepare for college because of the schools I'm considering. The logical thing would be for black people to support a young black guy reaching for success but he gets beat down the most by them it seems.

It's comparable to how overweight people try to get their coworkers to eat junk food with them every other day and get offended/make fun of them if they refuse a piece of cake. I'm only slightly kidding here.

 

[Devolution]

Are We There Yet? The Game? C'mon man, The Game!!

The Game is like the Living Single only replace responsible business professionals with pro-athlete, man-children... successful pro-athlete manchildren. How you gonna say black community aint got successful media representations. Oh yeah and don't forget House of Pain? Check. Mate.

Speaking of which, one of my friend's has a love hate relationship with Tyler Perry. He loathes his shit but is happy to see someone putting black actors, actresses, MPTs to work.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

As some of you have already pointed out, certain trends of "anti-intellectualism" within the African-American communities arouse during the 1970s- after the Civil Rights Movement.

As I've stated in a previous thread the main reasons are:

A) the federal, state, and local governments encouraging generational poverty via excessive or more so, unregulated/unchecked welfare subsides

B) the drug trade- kids would rather make money buying and selling drugs versus staying in or paying attention in high school

Both of which primarily commenced during the 1970s- though the oil embargo and economic stagnation of the US did not help either.

Having national advertising campaigns of trying to guilt-trip teenage fathers into staying with and helping raise their children are not going to have a major effect en masse by this point. Such campaigns actually already do exist- along with many "scared straight" and "stay in school" messages as well. These campaign slogans go in one ear and right out the other for many of the teenagers/young people in their early 20s that are apart of this "generational poverty" cycle. The temptations of drug money and even highly subsidized housing/welfare checks are too high for many of these kids to motivate themselves to improve their lives via education, which everyone the United States today has the opportunity to initially receive such education for free.

Solutions: We need to turn down or turn off the sources that create the generational poverty cycle. Legalizing all drugs will not happen- marijuana perhaps at some point, but certainly not heroin, crack, oxy w/o prescriptions, and meth. Thus, we must need to continue tackling the major sources of drug production- Colombia (cocaine), Afghanistan (heroin), and the good ol' US of A (meth/prescription painkillers). Also, we need much greater regulation in the types of products welfare recipient purchase with their welfare checks/EBT cards. This will require far greater vigilance from state welfare department employees, which is not all-too-present currently throughout the US.

I will also add that the problems above are not exclusive to African Americans. Similar problems exist within many Latino communities and rural and urban white communities as well. Europe is increasingly seeing similar problems within new immigrant groups and other communities too.

Lastly, to those saying "what about some positive stories about black America?," I suggest you look up and post articles on the more recent rise of the African American middle class. Look at places particularly in or around Atlanta, New York, Boston, or LA and you'll that many African Americans are noticeably wealthier today than the early 1990s. It's cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, Buffalo, parts of Chicago and Philadelphia, and regions like central California are the most in trouble with crime and generational poverty.

I see what you are saying about cutting off drug sources,but the people that will sell the drugs are the problem. It's a mentality of not caring about the effects your actions have on the community and doing whatever you think will make you successful. Even if drugs aren't there the people are and the people's mentalities are the real problem in my opinion.

 

[ScOULaris]

Definitely seen that used around. But I have a question for you guys, non-Black Gaf particularly "What is Black?" or "What is acting/being Black?" to you guys? If race is social construct, I want to see this get ..."deconstructed".

It's just as ridiculous as black people being accused of acting "white."

Essentially:

Acting white = Speaking with correct diction and grammar, pursuing education, being mindful of how your behavior impacts those around you, being reserved or soft-spoken.

Acting black = Loud and brash, anti-intellectual, thug-like interest in quick-fix means of making money, rude and aggressive... etc.

No matter which side is using either of those labels, it always favorites the "whites." Ridiculous, but especially so when black people shoot themselves in the foot with this sort of thinking.