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[ScOULaris]

Urgh. I shouldn't have wasted my finger muscles. Having read the whole thread, its clear the majority of this thread consists of people trying to impress their own misguided opinions on one another rather than actually listening to the people who actually have real insights on the situation and intelligently debating what can be done to change things. Its always the same when this subject comes up, even amongst black people. It makes the debate pointless.

im out.

I want to make a joke about "dropping out" of the thread, but I refrained for fear of banishment. The mods are definitely watching this one.

 

[SonnyBoy]

If "all of it" consists of blaming slavery for black dads not sticking around for their kids two hundred years later, then no.

and...there you have it.... LMAO

I want to make a joke about "dropping out" of the thread, but I refrained for fear of banishment. The mods are definitely watching this one.

That was a good one. I laughed. lolol

 

[la flama blanca]

The question is, do people really want to discuss all of it?

YES CONTINUE, waiting for someone to drop an N bomb before the thread is locked and he is banned.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

This this this this this. I remember a guy i knew at medical school said another black guy acted white, i am still pissed off with myself for not checking him because that corny black guy if shit ever went down in the medical field his "acting-white ass" would probably be more likely to help you for because for guess what "you're both black".

it's kind of similar when black people accuse white people of being "wiggas", because it kind of implies that there is a way of "Acting black" which kinda sets things back as well.

/random observation.

 

[Renmei]

What is the point of this post? If you have no intention of contributing anything to the discussion besides "Hur! My people had it harder!" or even considering for a second that black people in the United States have a unique history that just might have contributed to their current social/economic standing why even bother?

I would think that the point is obvious, many different people have had a rough history in the US, yet Blacks are on the bottom. I'm all for discussing why, but using slavery as a crutch irritates me and makes me think that is why things won't be changing any time soon.

 

[SmokyDave]

Rather than give the same armchair analysis that has probably been given time and time again, Ill point out some of the factors that go ignored from the perspective of a black man that grew up in a inner city area. Granted, life is alot easier where I live (U.K) than in the states for black males for many reasons, but the same allegories apply to a certain extent.

1) No concept of opportunity. This is far different from not having opportunity, This relates to the fact that for some black males, the opportunities that are available are not for them and they wont be accepted for them even if they try. there is a cultural view that "the man" is always going to try and hold them down no matter wehat they do and that people will ALWAYS discriminate against them because they are black. It is very common for another black person to tell you that you have to work twice as hard to get anything in life than your white counterpart and are the easiest to let go/kick out. While in my experience this is true in some cases, the majority of time its simple perception and more likely if an opportunity fails through for a black male, its because something they have done or not done which they should have. What happens over time, instead of seeing failures as feedback and looking at the areas that they are deficient in, they begin to fail back the time tested "those white people are rasist" excuse.

2) Wearing their blackness as a badge of honor. Black men, more than any other race I have encountered, have this thing about the fact that they are black makes the special in some way and they must share it with the world. I am just as guilty as any black man in overly promoting my culture and background in damn near everything I do. While in the right company, this is perfectly fine, there are times were it is goddamn inappropriate. Most of the time its something that is more subtle than others, like playing the most profanity ladden rap, when your driving up to work or with white co-workers in the car sometimes, its like you are daring people to have an issue with what you are doing just so you can call them rasist, when in actuality you are just being an asshole. I understand, part of it is just style, the natural extravagance and braggadocio that some black men have etc. But to someone who hasn't been brought up in the same culture, you just seem like you are being a cunt. You aren't "selling out" if you take other peoples feelings into account. which brings me to my third point.

3) An irrational fear of anything that isn't seen as "Black" as a black man, there are some cultural norms that you just shouldn't do, for no damn reason whatsoever. It varies from social circle to social circle, and alot is more tied to common sense more than anything, But even when taking that into account, almost every black male I have ever come across has at least one belief that he cannot do something on the sole pillar of logic that it is "just not what black people do" like I said some have more basis and some are harmless, like one i subscribe to:- "black people don't let animals sleep in their bed with them or lick their face", when these beliefs relate to bettering themselves or looking and making the most of opportunities, it holds them back. It is more pronounced in inner city circles and it tends to be the poorer you are and less educated, the more judgemental you are of anything that isn't within your own spere of influence and opportunity.


There are actually 4 more main ones that I can think of, but they require a bit more depth because they aren't easy topics to identify and fix. the ones listed above could be dealt with a simple attitude change. I do respect that some of this stuff is definitely not exclusive to black males, but for me, in my experience. this is the group where the problems are more pronounced. Another point id like to make is that I am not in anyway suggesting that is solely black males fault, there are plenty things that don't work in their favour that they cannot change, but for me. its pointless to worry about those things until we as race start to get the simple stuff down.

This was an interesting post to read, cheers. I'm often grumbling that we don't hear enough about these issues from Black UK-GAF (except for the ever awesome Bleepey & Mecha_Infantry).

Edit: And Refige_Kru. Can't forget him.

 

[Dali]

YET AGAIN

Please differentiate between racism today and slavery effects

Racism today does play a major role in the structure of society. It is terrible, but true. It is slowly changing, but I do not think it will ever go away entirely. It happens in every society with people of differing looks. It wouldn't even have to be skin color. If there was a minority of people missing their left ear they would be looked at differently.

Are you really saying there's no trickle down effect of generations of mental and physical subjugation and abuse? It was illegal to even teach a black person to read. I'll repeat: education was not just frowned upon, it was freakin' illegal. Children were born as property, lived as property, and had parents that were property. You have people of all colors today that still think stuff like the the crust of the bread has more nutrients. You're honestly trying to say the miseducation of black people throughout the US's history and even before it was a country has absolutely no bearing on modern day black people?

 

[Esch]

I beg you. I really want to know we can have real talk on GAF about shit like this.

Well as a guy from Saint Louis and Memphis, i've had plenty of interactions with the black communities in both cities. I've done tutoring of underprivileged children in high school, and volunteering in burn and trauma wards in university in bad areas. I've seen many sides to the black community. I've seen moments of incredible humanitarianism and endless self-sacrifice for black youth contrasted with the worst shit- the kind of stuff that almost immediately illicits racist responses from even rational, egalitarian thinking and acting people.

I'm gonna have to say that the #1 factor is still the home and community. I'd give homework assignments to these kids and a lot of them just didnt have anyone on their asses. They're not encouraged to read. They have no role models in or outside the home in a lot of situations. They're not that different from a lot of the white kids i grew up with really- except that they're surrounded with terrible influences.

The level of teaching is obvious. Inner city schools are objectively shit. Some of the staff is good and caring, others are lazy and lack ability, confidence, and really even solid educational groundings of their own.I wont even get into stuff like diet, television babysitters, and fathers. That's just obviously fucked up.

IMO everyone with open eyes can see the problems of the black community. The question is does anyone care? Black people or otherwise? Like everywhere else, people are trying to just get by on what little they have. Community rebuilding is something most don't have time for. Or resources. And a lot of educated black people who have made their money don't really seem to care a lot about helping the ones left behind, IMO. For a variety of reasons.

 

[Escape Goat]

Its systemic problem arising from home life which is a result of decades of social engineering. I can't even begin to think of how to fix it or where to begin, but there is no 1 stop shop solution here.

 

[gutter_trash]

The slavery of the past and the racism of today are two totally different topics.

The slavery has no effect today, but there is still an effect of racism

racism of today is passed down from the past and is not a different topic

a father who is racist will likely have a somewhat racist son... now imagine that line of racism being transmitted from generation to generation

 

[SonnyBoy]

Are you really saying there's no trickle down effect of generations of mental and physical subjugation and abuse? It was illegal to even teach a black person to read. I'll repeat: education was not just frowned upon, it was freakin' illegal. Children were born as property, lived as property, and had parents that were property. You have people of all colors today that still think stuff like the the crust of the bread has more nutrients. You're honestly trying to say the miseducation of black people throughout the US's history and even before it was a country has absolutely no bearing on modern day black people?

Wow, you took me back. I was actually told that as a child and I was born in 84.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Urgh. I shouldn't have wasted my finger muscles. Having read the whole thread, its clear the majority of this thread consists of people trying to impress their own misguided opinions on one another rather than actually listening to the people who actually have real insights on the situation and intelligently debating what can be done to change things. Its always the same when this subject comes up, even amongst black people. It makes the debate pointless.

im out.

I just read your post and it pretty much boiled down to these are the problems that come with a complex history and heres a simple solution: change your attitude. I mean, yeah thats the jist of it but where do we start when people don't want to listen? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, at least not without some ingenuity. And then there is always a problem of trying to force a culture on people.

 

[samus i am]

the Ghetto Cycle

-Poor neighborhood
-Poor Social Environment
-Poor Schools
-Poor neighborhood + Poor Social Environment + Poor Schools = Poor Education
-Poor Education = Poor Paying Jobs
-Poor Paying Jobs = Affordable Housing
-Affordable Housing = in most cases in Poor neighborhood

Yea, some have escape this cycle, but its not the norm.

Great post, this is the real answer. And when programs that are designed to help blacks get ahead are designed, it is denounced as "reverse racism" (as if that was really a thing).

 

[Londa]

Well as a guy from Saint Louis and Memphis, i've had plenty of interactions with the black communities in both cities. I've done tutoring of underprivileged children in high school, and volunteering in burn and trauma wards in university in bad areas. I've seen many sides to the black community. I've seen moments of incredible humanitarianism and endless self-sacrifice for black youth contrasted with the worst shit- the kind of stuff that almost immediately illicits racist responses from even rational, egalitarian thinking and acting people.

I'm gonna have to say that the #1 factor is still the home and community. I'd give homework assignments to these kids and a lot of them just didnt have anyone on their asses. They're not encouraged to read. They have no role models in or outside the home in a lot of situations. They're not that different from a lot of the white kids i grew up with really- except that they're surrounded with terrible influences.

The level of teaching is obvious. Inner city schools are objectively shit. Some of the staff is good and caring, others are lazy and lack ability, confidence, and really even solid educational groundings of their own.I wont even get into stuff like diet, television babysitters, and fathers. That's just obviously fucked up.

IMO everyone with open eyes can see the problems of the black community. The question is does anyone care? Black people or otherwise? Like everywhere else, people are trying to just get by on what little they have. Community rebuilding is something most don't have time for. Or resources. And a lot of educated black people who have made their money don't really seem to care a lot about helping the ones left behind, IMO. For a variety of reasons.

I have to agree with you on the bolded part.

 

[la flama blanca]

Some people just don't understand. No amount of literature would give the kind of insight of actually being a black person in modern society. I like how some people act like they know even than a black dude would on how it is to be black today.


Also, my best friend is Jamaican and it's very interesting to hear his perspective on not necessarily connecting with African Americans as he sees things in his own way because of having a different culture.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

And a lot of educated black people who have made their money don't really seem to care a lot about helping the ones left behind, IMO.

So true, someone actually said this in the black culture thread. I was pretty upset.

 

[Dunk#7]

Are you really saying there's no trickle down effect of generations of mental and physical subjugation and abuse? It was illegal to even teach a black person to read. I'll repeat: education was not just frowned upon, it was freakin' illegal. Children were born as property, lived as property, and had parents that were property. You have people of all colors today that still think stuff like the the crust of the bread has more nutrients. You're honestly trying to say the miseducation of black people throughout the US's history and even before it was a country has absolutely no bearing on modern day black people?

Are you saying that a black child born today does not posses the same mental ability to learn?

The way you phrase your argument you make it sound like african americans are biologically bound from birth to hold onto educational traits from their ancestors


What a terrible belief. I believe everybody is born on an equal footing with an ability to learn, but are hindered by their surroundings.

 

[ScOULaris]

Most of us seem to agree that it's a cultural problem that starts with bad parenting, which is probably because the black people having kids didn't have good parents as role models either when they were growing up. It's a vicious, well-documented cycle with no clear solution in sight.

That being said, why the FUCK is there so much teenage pregnancy within the black community? I don't care how absent your parents were or how shitty your friends are, what would ever make a teenage black girl want to have a kid that young? Especially if they're raised to think that they have no opportunities?

And don't try to blame their education. It's common fucking sense how to avoid pregnancy if you live in this country. I might get flamed for that comment, but most teenage pregnancies are most likely not the result of ignorance or misinformation. They're the result of two teenagers wanting to "risk it" instead of using protection because it feels better and they think they'll get lucky every time.

 

[Escape Goat]

Some people just don't understand. No amount of literature would give the kind of insight of actually being a black person in modern society. I like how some people act like they know even than a black dude would on how it is to be black today.


Also, my best friend is Jamaican and it's very interesting to hear his perspective on not necessarily connecting with African Americans as he sees things in his own way because of having a different culture.

So you're saying the only people who can help black people is a black person?

 

[Esch]

*shrug*
Mute me if you want, keep in mind that it is *you* who allow your "history" to dictate and excuse your failures. A few generations ago my half my relatives were put in internment camps and treated as enemies of the state and a threat to national security and the other half were part of the only group ever to be denied entry (Chinese Exclusion Act). I suppose I could use that to feel victimized and hated in the US.. or not.

You were victimized, no question. But do not attempt to equate the damage done to asian groups in the US to anything like what has and is continually done to black people even after slavery on the easternside of the country. Jim Crow laws. The KKK. The way police treat them(even now!). There is no comparison between even the general attitudes people have regarding blacks and asians.

 

[Londa]

*shrug*
Mute me if you want, keep in mind that it is *you* who allow your "history" to dictate and excuse your failures. A few generations ago my half my relatives were put in internment camps and treated as enemies of the state and a threat to national security and the other half were part of the only group ever to be denied entry (Chinese Exclusion Act). I suppose I could use that to feel victimized and hated in the US.. or not.

So currently you believe asians are hated in the US? wow

 

[Dunk#7]

Wow, you took me back. I was actually told that as a child and I was born in 84.

You were told that as a child just as I was.

It was TOLD to you not engrained in your brain from birth and passed biologically from your ancestors.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Are you saying that a black child born today does not posses the same mental ability to learn?

The way you phrase your argument you make it sound like african americans are biologically bound from birth to hold onto educational traits from their ancestors


What a terrible belief. I believe everybody is born on an equal footing with an ability to learn, but are hindered by their surroundings.

So your saying that there surroundings can't develop a mental hindrance of some sort? I think that you underestimate what the environment can do to mental development as a child.

 

[dave is ok]

and...there you have it.... LMAO

My not believing your opinion on the cause of a problem does not mean I am unwilling to discuss the problem. You haven't even considered that you might be wrong, you only think that white people don't want to talk about it because it makes them uncomfortable or something.

 

[Dunk#7]

So your saying that there surroundings can't develop a mental hindrance of some sort? I think that you underestimate what the environment can do to mental development as a child.

WTF you just repeated my point

I am agreeing with you.

I believe your surroundings affect you and that you are not biologically bound to the educational misfortunes of your ancestors.

That was my point

 

[AndyD]

So true, someone actually said this in the black culture thread. I was pretty upset.

I think as others echoed, they probably try to distance themselves from the other aspect of black culture mentioned, the "ghetto" and "being black" part of it. They probably think they beat the odds, and see past a racial unity that may actually hold them back from progressing further.

I have friends who are black and successful and we have discussed this issue and they said that they are even told by some of their family that they are not acting black and whatnot.

 

[la flama blanca]

So you're saying the only people who can help black people is a black person?

Nope, I'm simply reacting to some people's overwhelming sense of "I am white, but I know exactly what it's like"

 

[Esch]

So currently you believe asians are hated in the US? wow

Not hated, but minimized and quite often emasculated. You have no idea how mad I would get as a kid from kids who thought it was okay to make cracks about curry, rice, my people being smelly, etc. East asians especially are always given crap about their eyes, their language(herp a derp ching chang chong), penis size, kung fu, being good at math etc. And yes, with anti-Chinese/NK sentiment rising you will only see more of it. Black people, while definitely spurned, tend to acknowledge the hardships they go through and not acknowledge anyone elses. That's part of the reason why Asians tend to dismiss you guys one way or another- because for us we have managed to rise to prominence economically in this country despite our struggles. And then you say, 'what struggles'?

 

[dskillzhtown]

The question is, do people really want to discuss all of it?

No, because it would be a 5-day conversation. People want a quick answer and find quick and easy solution. There is no quick answer. There are alot of factors here to consider and understand. The biggest obstacle to a legit discussion is the fact people cannot understand that realities during slavery and post-slavery still effect people today. That is a fact that cannot be discounted. The fact that the legal, state-run discrimination that took place until the 60s still effects people today cannot be discounted.

Too many people want to act like that shit didn't happen and won't open their eyes to the fact the shadows of the past is cast on the present. People need to research the bullshit that went on after slavery ended. Dude, it was hunting season on black people with no police force to stop it.

 

[aktham]

<-Young (26) black male

My parents are still married (28 years)

I've been an honor roll student for all my life.I never went to an all black school, or where the majority was black students. I wasn't an anti social nerd or anything like that. I was athletic, smart and popular.I wasn't the only black kid in school like that either. There were at least 3 black kids like me (the i knew personally), one was my high school GF.

We had black kids who simply didn't care about school. Straight Fs. I've seen the report cards with my own eyes. They would quit any sport as soon as the coach yells at them. I've seen it happen in Football and basketball. I was one 2 on the soccer team, but the other black kid had good grades, so he could play. I can't speak for what is going at those kid's homes, but it just seemed like they didn't have any sense of responsibility or any plans for the future.

*Ghetto* Black girls gave me a hard time in middle school, thank GOD I was good at sports, otherwise I can only imagine the harassment. A lot of it was anti-intellectualism. They would be mad that I got good grades and that I didn't really hang out with them or date any of them. Some of them were actually cute, but I was afraid of the rejection and humiliation.

I don't think the rap music is to blame. I watched BET/MTV all the time just like everybody else (big tigga and the basement etc). Rap and hip-hop is my favorite music and that's what I listened to for most of my life. I just think most of them have dead beat dads that aren't there in their life to discipline them. There's a lot of instability. And guess what? those people will reproduce and more kids than me and the other stable black kids. The numbers will simply continue to grow with each generation.

 

[The Technomancer]

Nope, I'm simply reacting to some people's overwhelming sense of "I am white, but I know exactly what it's like"

The opposite attitude is also a problem. "You're not of [insert repressed group] so you could never even conceive of any aspect of my life, so dialogue between us is useless" is an attitude I've run into.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

WTF you just repeated my point

I am agreeing with you.

I believe your surroundings affect you and that you are not biologically bound to the educational misfortunes of your ancestors.

That was my point

Yeah but doesn't that hindrance come from ancestors who were slaves? I thought you were arguing against the fact that our ancestors have something to do with the way the culture is now.

You were saying that people use this as a crutch, which I can agree with, but that doesn't make it a non-issue.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I just read your post and it pretty much boiled down to these are the problems that come with a complex history and heres a simple solution: change your attitude. I mean, yeah thats the jist of it but where do we start when people don't want to listen? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, at least not without some ingenuity. And then there is always a problem of trying to force a culture on people.

Yes and no.

By and large, yes black males, especially in inner cities individually need to go through some form of attitude change.

No because the only way to steam and reverse the tide is people who do know better, actively engaging with black males and challenging these beliefs. This si something all races can do, not just black people. I'm just guilty of it as anyone else, but we as a people need to start checking these guys when you are talking to them and they start saying some ignorant or misguided shit. Its easier to just nod your head and laugh along, but it isnt helping them in the long run.

Before you can have an attitude change, you have to know and see there is another way of looking at things that is actually beneficial for you. Referring to your analogy, Its not a case of of forcing the horse to drink, its more a case of helping the horse to realise that the water is actually safe to drink and will benefit them, because all they have drunk their entire life is brown muddy water from puddles.

Just because things are self evident to you, doesn't mean it is to everyone.

 

[Bleepey]

East Asians have our own problems, mainly the Glass Ceiling where getting hired isn't that big of a problem, but we aren't seem as natural managers. But our culture's emphasis on family involvement and education seems to put us ahead of American blacks in terms of the whole graduating high school and not going to jail for drug dealing thing, even though we come to America with far more actual disadvantages and less physical resources. I'm convinced it is yourselves holding yourselves back for the most part. If you want to have a dick-measuring contest over who has the most fucked up history I'm sure Asia has you'all beat.

Just wondering what type of asians are immigrating. i wish ChiTown Buffalo was not banned cos maybe he might give an insight into this, but is it mostly educated parents or is it those that are poorly educated. How do the Hmong groups in the US compare to say the Koreasn. How do the different genders compare.

 

[Londa]

To all those people trying to say "well its not like that in Africa (or any other place outside of the US)" You are not following the OP.

What does African American issues have to do with anything outside of the US? You are derailing the thread when you bring up the UK, Africa, or Asian. So please get a clue.

 

[Renmei]

So currently you believe asians are hated in the US? wow

*facepalm*
Hooked on Phonics~ I was saying that I could allow myself to feel victimized for unjust acts done in the recent past.. or not. Try it sometimes.

 

[Ducarmel]

So true, someone actually said this in the black culture thread. I was pretty upset.

I don't think successful black people don't want to help poor black folks its just that its extra work to create an environment to even attempt to help.

There are programs dedicated to helping black communities by successful and educated black people, its just very slow process and not much money being put into it. Usually these are people we never hear much about local businessmen, doctors, lawyers, etc.

The very rich black people don't want to get their hands too dirty they give just enough money to put there names on to something, get good press, then go about their lives.

 

[Londa]

*facepalm*
Hooked on Phonics~ I was saying that I could allow myself to feel victimized for unjust acts done in the recent past.. or not. Try it sometimes.

and you would be allowing yourself to be outright wrong (you said asians have it worse). Hooked on Phonics? I think you might need it more since you are in a thread about African American's but you rather talk about Asian issues. Go make a thread on it instead of derailing this thread.

East Asians have our own problems, mainly the Glass Ceiling where getting hired isn't that big of a problem, but we aren't seem as natural managers. But our culture's emphasis on family involvement and education seems to put us ahead of American blacks in terms of the whole graduating high school and not going to jail for drug dealing thing, even though we come to America with far more actual disadvantages and less physical resources. I'm convinced it is yourselves holding yourselves back for the most part. If you want to have a dick-measuring contest over who has the most fucked up history I'm sure Asia has you'all beat.

bolded proves that you are trying to say asians have it worse.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Some people just don't understand. No amount of literature would give the kind of insight of actually being a black person in modern society. I like how some people act like they know even than a black dude would on how it is to be black today.


Also, my best friend is Jamaican and it's very interesting to hear his perspective on not necessarily connecting with African Americans as he sees things in his own way because of having a different culture.

This is HUGE problem. So many different black people hate on one another because of the background of each person, there is no such thing as a unified "black people", even within one country.

To all those people trying to say "well its not like that in Africa (or any other place outside of the US)" You are not following the OP.

What does African American issues have to do with anything outside of the US? You are derailing the thread when you bring up the UK, Africa, or Asian. So please get a clue.

This is bollocks my friend. No matter where you go, you can find similar situations around the world when discussing the topic. They all have common reasons as well as differences.
You would actually be surprised how much communality two black people from opposite ends of the world have, even when separated by language. It amazes even me.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

I think as others echoed, they probably try to distance themselves from the other aspect of black culture mentioned, the "ghetto" and "being black" part of it. They probably think they beat the odds, and see past a racial unity that may actually hold them back from progressing further.

I have friends who are black and successful and we have discussed this issue and they said that they are even told by some of their family that they are not acting black and whatnot.

Yeah, I said this in the other thread but them beating the odds was not 100% from their own ability. Just as we can now all agree that environment is the reason for problems within the black community but it can also be the reason for going on to be successful. A push in the right direction from a parent, uncle, or teacher could be all that a lot of people need to better themselves and its insulting that some successful black people refuse to help others out because they became to good for them.

 

[ScOULaris]

Going on the discussion in the thread so far, the Top 5 answers for question #1 are as follows (listed in order of severity):

1. Absence of father and/or just shitty parenting overall
2. Anti-intellectualism that permeates the entire subculture
3. Still hasn't been enough time passed since the civil rights movement. Change takes a long time.
4. Lack of positive black male role models in the media and latent notions of low self-worth as holdovers from the days of slavery.
5. Drugs entering inner-city communities and derailing progress for a large proportion of the community

Does that seem accurate?

 

[Ducarmel]

Does that seem accurate?

Yeah 1 and 4 probably the biggest factor imo.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Yes and no.

By and large, yes black males, especially in inner cities individually need to go through some form of attitude change.

No because the only way to steam and reverse the tide is people who do know better, actively engaging with black males and challenging these beliefs. This si something all races can do, not just black people. I'm just guilty of it as anyone else, but we as a people need to start checking these guys when you are talking to them and they start saying some ignorant or misguided shit. Its easier to just nod your head and laugh along, but it isnt helping them in the long run.

Before you can have an attitude change, you have to know and see there is another way of looking at things that is actually beneficial for you. Referring to your analogy, Its not a case of of forcing the horse to drink, its more a case of helping the horse to realise that the water is actually safe to drink and will benefit them, because all they have drunk their entire life is brown muddy water from puddles.

Just because things are self evident to you, doesn't mean it is to everyone.

First of all, no it wasn't self-evident to me.

For your first paragraph as others are discussing we are noticing that black people don't want to help other black people, which is a huge problem. And for the bolded, nicely said, its so true.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

People who say "I was raised in a single parent home and I turned out fine" are fighting statistics with anecdotes.

I was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan before moving here to Indiana. I have a cousin, lived there his entire life, grew up on poverty. Pork chops and rice for dinner and off brand corn flakes for breakfast nearly every day of his life. Graduated from Wayne State University with a degree in engineering. Now works for an electric company in his field. I've always told him that I was proud of him for rising far above the standard that was set for him. His reply was just that he wanted more out of life. Every person living encounters moments in their lives where they can become greater than they already are. You either chase the moment or you cower from it. So, while it is anecdotal evidence to say people like my cousin and I 'made it'. It is a disservice to say that far more black males couldn't have done the same.

 

[AndyD]

Yeah, I said this in the other thread but them beating the odds was not 100% from their own ability. Just as we can now all agree that environment is the reason for problems within the black community but it can also be the reason for going on to be successful. A push in the right direction from a parent, uncle, or teacher could be all that a lot of people need to better themselves and its insulting that some successful black people refuse to help others out because they became to good for them.

I agree.

But I think they try to avoid the behavior Aktham described above. The teasing and denigration for being successful. It's easier to not have contact sometimes, than to have contact and bear through it even though you may do some good.

That applies to all people though. Some successful white people have no contact and distance themselves from their lesser fortunate relatives as well. And others don't.

I think its more human than necessarily attributable to any particular race.

 

[Esch]

Going on the discussion in the thread so far, the Top 5 answers for question #1 are as follows (listed in order of severity):

1. Absence of father and/or just shitty parenting overall
2. Anti-intellectualism that permeates the entire subculture
3. Still hasn't been enough time passed since the civil rights movement. Change takes a long time.
4. Lack of positive black male role models in the media and latent notions of low self-worth as holdovers from the days of slavery.
5. Drugs entering inner-city communities and derailing progress for a large proportion of the community

Does that seem accurate?

You're obviously missing out on the obvious factor of racism post civil rights era, but sure, thats not bad.

 

[beast786]

I am not black.

But my favorite leaders have been black leaders of the Civil rights movement of the 60's. What they accomplished is unheard of in the entire human history. Unbelievable achievement and using such a future vision, where instead of separatist mentality they had a long vision of changing people mind . Even though that gives nothing to people who were alive , but sets the success for the future generation.

It hurts me to see/hear and read about this. Those great leaders of the past would be turning in there graves. In my eyes, it hurts to see how the mighty have fallen. When I say mighty, i mean strong individuals, strong cultural presence and people who have revolutionized this nation based on its will power like never been done before in the history of mankind.

 

[Goron2000]

I blame rap music. Kids these days are too concerned with what ho Puff Daddy is smacking, What "mad" chronic LL cool J is smoking and what pants MC Hammer is rocking.

 

[The Librarian]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm not claiming to be an expert on this issue, but based on The Wire, ending the War on Drugs would do a lot. Obviously that wouldn't fix everything, but it would really help those in the city. I think I saw a figure somewhere that showed more black people in jail than in college. That's a shame. Something needs to be done about it.

 

[SmokyDave]

Going on the discussion in the thread so far, the Top 5 answers for question #1 are as follows (listed in order of severity):

1. Absence of father and/or just shitty parenting overall
2. Anti-intellectualism that permeates the entire subculture
3. Still hasn't been enough time passed since the civil rights movement. Change takes a long time.
4. Lack of positive black male role models in the media and latent notions of low self-worth as holdovers from the days of slavery.
5. Drugs entering inner-city communities and derailing progress for a large proportion of the community

Does that seem accurate?

Institutional racism probably deserves a bullet point too.