Black males most consistently under-performing demographic. What can be done?

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Measley said:
Sorry, I just can't defend that type of behavior anymore and then pin it on slavery. I understand slavery, and its effects. But slavery isn't causing black youth to roam the night beating the shit out of people for no reason. Slavery isn't causing black students to act like animals in the classroom when a substitute teacher is in the room. Slavery isn't causing black women to open their legs for numbskulls who won't be there in nine months.

The problems are getting worse and worse, and all I keep hearing is "Slavery", or "other people do it too!" excuses. Sorry, that's not good enough anymore. The rates of illegitimacy, incarceration, unemployment, and drop outs are INCREASING not decreasing.
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Actually you can trace these things back to slavery. If you truly understood it's effects you wouldn't have such an ignorant opinion. The experience of slavery and the post-slavery years had effectively emasculated African-American men in many ways (socially, economically, politically).
Measley said:
I never said it was a black thing.

However its mostly a black thing. The incarceration rates back that up.
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False. Institutionalization racism is a factor. It is proven black people are disproportionately targeted by police at a higher rate. and face harsher sentences than their white counterparts.

I have mostly given up with arguing with people like you on GAF because no matter what proof you put in front of them they are going to hold fast to their ignorant views.
 
beast786 said:
If slavery was the main reason. Then how come the peak of black history was in 60's. I am not saying slavery is not an underline issue. All I am saying is the highest peak of black community was at the time when civil rights was still in question.

When I talk about peak. I mean in respected leaders, family structure and self pride.
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Post Civil War there were black business owners, inventors, stock traders, merchants, millionaires, black state senators, and I believe some even made it to Congress. Then the Klan and Jim Crow and rampant terrorism basically destroyed all of that. Entire townships were burned in some cases, and so much killing and death. That was their revenge that lasted up until the 60s, but did you know about any of that? 1876 to 1965.
 
akira28 said:
Post Civil War there were black business owners, inventors, stock traders, merchants, millionaires, black state senators, and I believe some even made it to Congress. Then the Klan and Jim Crow and rampant terrorism basically destroyed all of that. Entire townships were burned in some cases, and so much killing and death. That was their revenge that lasted up until the 60s, but did you know about any of that?
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Then 60s and on you had white flight.
 
If in a thousand years nothing has changed is still going to be acceptable to blame slavery? What I'm saying is, where do you draw the line on excuses? And before anyone gets angry, it's more of a question than an argument.
 
beast786 said:
If slavery was the main reason. Then how come the peak of black history was in 60's. I am not saying slavery is not an underline issue. All I am saying is the highest peak of black community was at the time when civil rights was still in question.

When I talk about peak. I mean in respected leaders, family structure and self pride.
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This is kind of one of the other falsehoods that I dislike in the sense that there's this belief that the 60s were the start of the civil rights movement and was the peak of black culture. The Niagra Movement existed long before the modern civil rights era and influenced it to some extent. I'm white, but blacks just didn't sit around for 100 years before the 60s. They finally gained civil rights in that time, but many of the finest minds this nation has ever produced were fighting for equality long before then.
 
reggie said:
If in a thousand years nothing has changed is still going to be acceptable to blame slavery? What I'm saying is, where do you draw the line on excuses? And before anyone gets angry, it's more of a question than an argument.
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I guess it's a question we'll ponder 800 years from now.

But as of right now slavery and legalized discrimination make up for the vast majority of the black experience in the United States. It simply can't be swept under the rug like certain people in this thread want it to be.
 
The reason this problem exist and has for so long, is the emergence of crack cocaine. Crack changed families, neighborhoods, generations, as well as the black median income. I'm a Los Angeles native, born the year 1975. Suddenly my block and the surrounding blocks changed. I didn't know that I was growing up a block and half from Ricky "Freeway" Ross, who helped start the crack epidemic. During the 70's the black family was strong, they were buying homes, starting businesses and sending they're kids to college. Crack came and turned dads in to thieves, moms in to prostitutes, teenagers into drug dealers, murderers, young single mothers, boys in to bastards. We have a generation of crack babies, that are now adults having children which are more than likely giving birth to crack babies. The family has set back three generations....probably more.
 
GillianSeed79 said:
This is kind of one of the other falsehoods that I dislike in the sense that there's this belief that the 60s were the start of the civil rights movement and was the peak of black culture. The Niagra Movement existed long before the modern civil rights era and influenced it to some extent. I'm white, but blacks just didn't sit around for 100 years before the 60s. They finally gained civil rights in that time, but many of the finest minds this nation has ever produced were fighting for equality long before then.
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I am not sure where I said they sat for 100 years. You can have good people, but 60's brought some iconic black leaders that are respected and known world wide. And in my own opinion , they were the best the world has ever seen. What they accomplished has never been done before in modern history.

Not saying that there were not good leaders in past. But that class of people have changed the way a civil revolution is done.
 
akira28 said:
Post Civil War there were black business owners, inventors, stock traders, merchants, millionaires, black state senators, and I believe some even made it to Congress. Then the Klan and Jim Crow and rampant terrorism basically destroyed all of that. Entire townships were burned in some cases, and so much killing and death. That was their revenge that lasted up until the 60s, but did you know about any of that? 1876 to 1965.
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I think you completely miss the point.
 
beast786 said:
I think you completely miss the point.
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I thought you did.


k...so who was phone?



edit:
slavery - war over slavery - revenge over losing war over slavery - campaign of terror and nationwide culture of oppression toward former slaves, to keep them in their "place", below white people.

This isn't a cavalcade of stars here, it's bad community theatre, with only a handful of stage players. Major factors being...well...racism and slavery. Slavery and the world it created.
 
MWS Natural said:
Actually you can trace these things back to slavery. If you truly understood it's effects you wouldn't have such an ignorant opinion. The experience of slavery and the post-slavery years had effectively emasculated African-American men in many ways (socially, economically, politically).
False. Institutionalization racism is a factor. It is proven black people are disproportionately targeted by police at a higher rate. and face harsher sentences than their white counterparts.

I have mostly given up with arguing with people like you on GAF because no matter what proof you put in front of them they are going to hold fast to their ignorant views.
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As a fellow black person, I can't agree with just about anything you've posted in this thread.

Do you honestly believe that black fathers abandon kids/women/responsibilities because of slavery?

It must be because of institutionalized racism and slavery that I'm one of 2 black people in my section in Law School. 2 out of 56.
 
MWS Natural said:
False. Institutionalization racism is a factor. It is proven black people are disproportionately targeted by police at a higher rate. and face harsher sentences than their white counterparts.
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even if true they still did SOMETHING wrong
you can't end up in jail being a nice guy doing nothing wrong
(for the most part)

harsher sentences then normal?....possible
point is there would be no sentences (harsh or otherwise) if they didn't do stupid shit
 
Although I feel there is a link between the legacy of slavery and institutionalised racism, and although I accept that slavery left black people way behind in 'the race', I can't quite fathom how it directly affects people born today.

My parents parents were broke as fuck (and one of them was clinically insane) and that has had an effect on my life (I started out poorer than my friends and had to prove myself more because I lived on a scum estate in a rented house) but if you go back any further than that, the people involved and their circumstances are utterly irrelevant to my life today. Sure, I could hold them responsible for making my grandparents poor* which fucked up their lives and led to a host of problems (including suicide) which were then imprinted on my father and, through him, on me, but there's too much water under the bridge for me to have any conviction in blaming them.

*In as much as they didn't accumulate any wealth to pass on to my grandparents.
 
People seem to forget that blacks have had their rights for maybe fifty years...
 
Well, first off, I think that young black males have a very dangerous element in their life, in the form of gangs. Granted, young white males can fall in with this crowd, but it's an unfortunate influence.
 
How do black Americans fare in relation to other marginalised minorities? Are they worse off or about the same? If there is to be some conclusion about the role of slavery and its impact I think it is important to disentangle the variables as much as possible.
 
I gotta say the acting white phenomenon is a real one. Growin up in the hood and livin a thug life earns cred in the local communities. I can't imagine that being the case with any other racial group. To do well is almost to distance yourself from your local black peers, which I doubt many would want to do if they make up most of your friends.
 
Future said:
I gotta say the acting white phenomenon is a real one. Growin up in the hood and livin a thug life earns cred in the local communities. I can't imagine that being the case with any other racial group. To do well is almost to distance yourself from your local black peers, which I doubt many would want to do if they make up most of your friends.
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Which of course goes back to house n@&&ers
 
IMO, the problem with linking everything to slavery is that while it may be sociologically correct, there's nothing actionable there.
 
gkryhewy said:
IMO, the problem with linking everything to slavery is that while it may be sociologically correct, there's nothing actionable there.
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There is that too. So everyone agrees, then what? It may help heal some wounds, but does it actually create any solutions?
 
MWS Natural said:
Actually you can trace these things back to slavery. If you truly understood it's effects you wouldn't have such an ignorant opinion. The experience of slavery and the post-slavery years had effectively emasculated African-American men in many ways (socially, economically, politically).
False. Institutionalization racism is a factor. It is proven black people are disproportionately targeted by police at a higher rate. and face harsher sentences than their white counterparts.

I have mostly given up with arguing with people like you on GAF because no matter what proof you put in front of them they are going to hold fast to their ignorant views.
Click to expand...

I'm a descendant of slaves, and the legacy of slavery hasn't affected me at all. If it has, it hasn't stopped me from getting college degrees, never having a prison record, being upper-middle class, etc. My great-grandfather was one of the first black doctors in the area, and his father was born a slave. Never stopped either from achieving great things and making something of themselves, and they lived in areas and times of American apartheid. Maybe the legacy of slavery didn't affect me because I didn't get involved with idiots in my neighborhood doing dumb things? Maybe because I came from a two-parent household? Maybe because my parents HIGHLY valued education?

Again, I just can't agree that a black male born in the 1980s or 1990s could be affected by slavery. Its simply an excuse to take the blame off of the people actually doing the damage.
 
Dead Man said:
There is that too. So everyone agrees, then what? It may help heal some wounds, but does it actually create any solutions?
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So telling people to "buck up" is the better solution?
 
Blackace said:
So telling people to "buck up" is the better solution?
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I don't believe I have ever said that, or even insinuated or hinted at that. Telling people to bootstrap is a failed methodology in almost every facet of life. My asking a question is hardly an enthusiastic support of racism.
 
Sigh... it's not linking it back to slavery, if slavery never truly went away. Blacks in America have been oppressed clearly since about 50 years ago, only 10 years later did drug use become a serious felony. Also around the same time manufacturing shifted to outsourcing, the one foundation black americans had gained solid experience in (look at Detroit now).

The other thing to consider is that once you get in prison you don't get out, in the sense that you throw away tremendous advantages you once had, like the right to vote. It's just not right in my opinion. To have the cards stacked up against a minority, give them equal rights, then enforce drug laws that are prone to target the poor and minorities (racist cops, planting evidence, poor/oppressed people needing to get high/escape their problems)... the reason why the drug war continues despite having absolutely no effect on drug production and abuse is to continue to oppress generations of poor/black/hispanic families, preventing them from having equal footing in the job market, separating parents, continued segregation in public schools. Prison industrial complex is no accident. The War on Drugs is working but not for the purpose of eliminating drug use.

What should have been done in 1970 was a focus on treatment for drug users, so minorities and poor could get off drugs and get back on track in life.

If you can look at the current policies today and conclude they are just and moral, then I can see why you might think a black person isn't affected by slavery...

693px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg.png


Whites and African Americans report using and selling drugs at similar rates, but African American go to prison for drug offenses at higher rates than whites. In 2002 African Americans were admitted to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of whites in the 198 largest counties in the country.

The results of the national longitudinal survey of youth showed that 13% of African American youth reported selling drugs (compared with 17% of white youth), however in 2003 African American youth were arrested for drug abuse violations at nearly twice the rate of whites.
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Measley said:
I'm a descendant of slaves, and the legacy of slavery hasn't affected me at all. If it has, it hasn't stopped me from getting college degrees, never having a prison record, being upper-middle class, etc. My great-grandfather was one of the first black doctors in the area, and his father was born a slave. Never stopped either from achieving great things and making something of themselves, and they lived in areas and times of American apartheid. Maybe the legacy of slavery didn't affect me because I didn't get involved with idiots in my neighborhood doing dumb things? Maybe because I came from a two-parent household? Maybe because my parents HIGHLY valued education?

Again, I just can't agree that a black male born in the 1980s or 1990s could be affected by slavery. Its simply an excuse to take the blame off of the people actually doing the damage.
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It has affected you greatly. The fact that you have achieved so much is amazing. There are just as two parent households that have failed under similar conditions... It is fantastic that you came from such a wonderful pedgriee but your great great grandfather could have been something great but instead was property, so his son got a break that most sons or daughters of slaves didn't get and ran with it... The fact is that blacks just got their rights in 1964 which of course is a result of slavery and you would be blind to not see people affected by slavery and industrialized racism...

Blacks have to take more responsibility for their actions and what not, but saying that the affects aren't real is flat wrong imo
 
DOO13ER said:
I think what he's saying is that, "Hey, my ancestors were slaves" isn't a solution at all, true as it may be as a statement.
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It isnt a solution but it is the root of the problem..
 
SmokyDave said:
Fixed.

Edit: although I don't agree with your statement, I'm just fixing it for accuracy.
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Fuck that waiting for Admiral Sir John Hawkins to say sorry
 
SmokyDave said:
I thought William Wilberforce delivered the apology on his behalf.
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Cleaning up his trash isn't really considered an apology...
 
Shurs said:
That it's used as an excuse? Yes.
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It isn't an excuse it is a fact.. 13 years before I was born blacks didn't have the rights as their white counterparts.
 
Blackace said:
Cleaning up his trash isn't really considered an apology...
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I'd say it was a definite statement of intent though.

William Wilberforce said:
Let us not despair; it is a blessed cause, and success, ere long, will crown our exertions. Already we have gained one victory; we have obtained, for these poor creatures, the recognition of their human nature, which, for a while was most shamefully denied. This is the first fruits of our efforts; let us persevere and our triumph will be complete. Never, never will we desist till we have wiped away this scandal from the Christian name, released ourselves from the load of guilt, under which we at present labour, and extinguished every trace of this bloody traffic, of which our posterity, looking back to the history of these enlightened times, will scarce believe that it has been suffered to exist so long a disgrace and dishonour to this country.
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Crazy to think that was 220 years ago.
 
SmokyDave said:
I'd say it was a definite statement of intent though.


Crazy to think that was 220 years ago.
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William Wilberforce is one of history's heroes who don't get enough love without a doubt, but Admiral Hawkins was still a tool..
 
Blackace said:
It isn't an excuse it is a fact.. 13 years before I was born blacks didn't have the rights as their white counterparts.
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Sure.

Now you do.


My comment was about using slavery as a crutch.

Obviously where you came from had an impact, but to keep going back to that as an excuse seems like one of the reasons why things are like they are today.
 
Shurs said:
Sure.

Now you do.


My comment was about using slavery as a crutch.

Obviously where you came from had an impact, but to keep going back to that as an excuse seems like one of the reasons why things are like they are today.
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No one here is as a crutch, but acting like 400 plus years of slavery plus the decades of industrial racism doesn't affect the black race as a whole is ignorant...

Yeah we have rights now. But are still behind in wealth, businesses, landownership which is directly related to the past..
 
Blackace said:
No one here is as a crutch, but acting like 400 plus years of slavery plus the decades of industrial racism doesn't affect the black race as a whole is ignorant...

Yeah we have rights now. But are still behind in wealth, businesses, landownership which is directly related to the past..
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Right, but again, I feel that this is being used to lower the expectations of the race, which is (obviously) holding it back.
 
Shurs said:
Right, but again, I feel that this is being used to lower the expectations of the race, which is (obviously) holding it back.
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Not really.. Fully educating why there is such a gap in wealth and education would help to put blacks on the right path IMO.. But that means pointing fingers and nobody wants to rock that boat.
 
Blackace said:
Not really.. Fully educating why there is such a gap in wealth and education would help to put blacks on the right path IMO.. But that means pointing fingers and nobody wants to rock that boat.
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Sure, dude.

It's not single-parent homes.

It's not anti-intellectualism.

It's not the "good enough" attitude.

It's not the lowered expectations.

It's the man.

We are the 99%
 
in here we have people that are not directly effected pretend to be experts about something they do not really understand. They use what they see on TV to gauge their understanding and anyone who is directly effected that tells them their wrong is making excuses.
 
Shurs said:
Sure, dude.

It's not single-parent homes.

It's not anti-intellectualism.

It's not the "good enough" attitude.

It's not the lowered expectations.

It's the man.

We are the 99%
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White people dont have single parent homes?? Snap! Wow you won.

Where do you think the lower expectations cone from? The fact that there is such a gap. If people were taught why, they could see that we need to work harder, being free doesn't make us equal yet.. Having rights didn't end the civil rights movement....

But it's all a crutch.. smh...
 
Blackace said:
William Wilberforce is one of history's heroes who don't get enough love without a doubt, but Admiral Hawkins was still a tool..
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No doubt, no doubt.


Blackace said:
Not really.. Fully educating why there is such a gap in wealth and education would help to put blacks on the right path IMO.. But that means pointing fingers and nobody wants to rock that boat.
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But what does that involve? Who do we point the fingers at? White people? White Americans? White Americans with ancestors that can be directly linked to the slave trade?

Once those fingers are pointed, what then? Do we approach those people for an apology? For financial restitution / compensation?

I'm not sure how it 'rocks the boat' either. Is there a single American alive today that isn't aware of the slave trade?


Londa said:
in here we have people that are not directly effected pretend to be experts about something they do not really understand. They use what they see on TV to gauge their understanding and anyone who is directly effected that tells them their wrong is making excuses.
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Better that than standing on the sidelines calling names and pointing fingers. Your contributions pretty much all boil down to 'get a clue'.

How does Measley fit into your little rant?
 
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