ryutaro's mama
Member
samus i am said:
MWS Natural said:
Oh dear.
Black males most consistently under-performing demographic. What can be done?
- Thread starter ScOULaris
- Start date
- Status
Oh dear.
Mammoth Jones
Member
A ghetto child's best chance at a successful education and life is to get the fuck out of dodge at a really young age, which essentially means leaving friends and family behind as a goddamn toddler.
I'm not black, but am I wrong in asserting that the chances of succeeding while living in the ghetto are slim to none? Invariably, people find a way to get out of the ghetto, and that's almost always on the parents. With the lack of stability at home, the poor quality of education and the external negativity that comes with living in the hood, is even possible for a kid to grow up and succeed without first finding an out?
That pretty much destroys the "black people need to stop crying and work harder" argument, doesn't it? The way I see it, a ghetto child could work his damndest and not get anywhere at all in life if he isn't first taken OUT of the ghetto, and while I don't have figures to back this up, but am assuming that doesn't happen the majority of the time. The brightest, most industrious and motivated child has practically zero chance to succeed spending his lifetime in that environment.
I'm not black, but am I wrong in asserting that the chances of succeeding while living in the ghetto are slim to none? Invariably, people find a way to get out of the ghetto, and that's almost always on the parents. With the lack of stability at home, the poor quality of education and the external negativity that comes with living in the hood, is even possible for a kid to grow up and succeed without first finding an out?
That pretty much destroys the "black people need to stop crying and work harder" argument, doesn't it? The way I see it, a ghetto child could work his damndest and not get anywhere at all in life if he isn't first taken OUT of the ghetto, and while I don't have figures to back this up, but am assuming that doesn't happen the majority of the time. The brightest, most industrious and motivated child has practically zero chance to succeed spending his lifetime in that environment.
samus i am
Member
ryutaro's mama said:
Oh dear is right. He is the embodiment of what MWS Natural was talking about.
Measley said:
Why are you asking why people don't have jobs in 2011? Did you not forget that we are in a bad economy? Seriously its like you have no thinking skills what so ever.
You know.. it isn't just black women who have sex before marriage is basically acceptable for anyone of any race to have sex before marriage. If they haven't had sex before marriage they are look at as strange and weird.
And yet you still think the way you do. I honestly can't understand it.
I mean, it's great that you turned the direction of your life around. It really is. Some of us have been there, and it definitely takes gumption. But that you could turn such a cold shoulder to the people who grew up in similar circumstances who maybe didn't have the positive influence that you had to reach that crucial turning point...well, it makes me well and truly sad.
Takuan said:
No. At a certain point, you make a choice about what type of life you want to lead. The end result of a self-destructive lifestyle isn't a grand mystery. Neither is the result of getting an education and going to college. So you can choose to go one way or the other, and if you choose the self-destructive lifestyle, then all the consequences that result from that choice falls upon YOU.
royalan said:
Everyone I grew up with had the same opportunities I did. They just didn't take advantage of those opportunities and made terrible decisions. Maybe others didn't have a great-grandfather who accomplished something extraordinary, but there's plenty of examples of black success immediately following slavery and during Jim Crow. Hell, you could read Frederick Douglass and get inspired. So I don't view my experience as anything out of the ordinary. I just made the right choices instead of the wrong ones.
Any black kid can do the same.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Measley said:
Guess what?
My mother is American; my father an immigrant--they both valued education for my family.
I'm doing pretty well in life and yet I realize that everyone isn't me.
Look at it like this, if you are born into a nurturing environment that values education, future planning and pragmatism, then you will be more inclined to at least have a voice in your ear (in your case, your mother was that voice) that will give you the correct advice. Her ability to
Now imagine being born into a place where the exact opposite happens. Not everyone is mentally strong enough to "make it out".
Like I said before, using your own personal example as a way to disqualify the larger issue is pretty pompous of you.
Takuan said:
excuse me, but it isn't just black women who do these things. I think you are not worth talking to only for the fact that you focus on one group when everyone is doing it. How about just saying females instead of black females? No, that wouldn't work towards the black woman hate that some of you have in here. I really think the ones who have this hateful thinking are mentally sick.
Blacklace, why is it ok for users on these forums to say hateful things against women? I just really want to know the answer to this.
Realistically though, a child doesn't have that choice. He's fucked from the moment he's out the womb. The earliest age that you can expect a kid to be able to actually take action and survive on his/her own is what, 18? Is it at all realistic to expect an 18 year old kid to leave family and friends behind and start his own life? To know that you're literally abandoning everyone you've known and loved to make a future for yourself... that's too much for 99.99% of humans, and it's far too much to ask of a child.Measley said:
Being born in the ghetto isn't a choice.
C'MON, SON.Londa said:
samus i am
Member
royalan said:
Probably cause it happens so much in the black community it isn't treated as a big deal.
Takuan said:
Yes its realistic. Most people stop talking to their middle and high school friends within a year or two of graduation. They end up making new friends, and having new experiences.
If you're too much of a coward to leave the baggage behind, then you accept the consequences of your cowardice.
ryutaro's mama said:
They aren't mentally strong because they've been told their entire lives that nothing is their fault. They've been told that whatever happens its someone else's fault. They've bought into the lie that prosperity is a dunk, touchdown, or rap lyric away. They've been fed constant bullshit to the point where they believe they're entitled to things they aren't entitled to.
To top it off, they're men raised by women who aren't really mature enough to be mothers themselves. So they have no personal responsibility, no morals, and no direction. They live their lives as if there are no consequences or repercussions, because they're constantly given passes for being gigantic screw ups. In the end, when they finally fall flat on their faces, they have hordes of apologists waiting to pat them on the back and begin the cycle all over again.
If they're still alive that is.
Falseenzom21 said:
Black American teenagers have higher pregnancy and out-of-wedlock birth rates than their White and Hispanic peers. However, since 1980 these rates are rising faster among Whites.
Poverty appears to lead to early childbearing. 60 to 80 percent of the 500,000 teenagers giving birth each year live in poverty and come from low-income families. The children born to teenage mothers in poverty are more apt to suffer poor health, perform poorly in school, be neglected or mistreated, and engage in antisocial behavior (when compared to children born to mothers in their 20s and 30s).
^ Yeah, seems like my info is outdated. Fact remains, though - it's a problem, and I have no idea how you can label someone as a hater of black women for identifying it as such. But that's Londa for you.
Could've sworn one of the articles in here said it was. I apologize if that's actually false. I was under that impression, and was defending Measley's comment about teaching young black women to practice safe sex when Londa took offense; that's why I felt that (imagined?) statistic was appropriate, because while it isn't exclusively a black issue, it's still very prevalent in black populations. That still stands, unless I've been brainwashed by the media and that it's actually not a problem that requires attention at all.enzom21 said:
How old is this article?SSJ1Goku said:
Hispanics have the highest teen birth rates in the US.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_01.pdf
Takuan said:
I took offense because its funny how you take one issue that effects all races and stick it on blacks only. Anyone doing this has to be truely twisted in the head to do this.
But don't get me wrong, safe sex is important and I don't support teen pregancy. However I'm not blinded by hate to only blame it on one racial group.
Oemenia said:
Push the importance of family, children, and the future. Everyone involved needs to tighten up. Parents, teachers, the kids themselves, the system supporting them all. Of course we KNOW we need this. Know who says we don't? Or has constantly sought to block funding or lowball any and all efforts for social programs to help parents, students, and teachers?
Conservatives. The same people who supported slavery and Jim Crow coincidentally.
That's what I say when I mention the world coming in from the outside to make a bad situation worse.
Children need to be bolstered so they learn not to make bad choices that will hurt them in the future. It doesn't always come from two parents. Remember "It takes a village?" It was a joke in the media for years, but that was a serious attempt at he problem for ALL children, not just black ones, but look how it was rejected by sick American culture, not black, but snide, American, we see no problems here but an uppity woman, telling us how to raise our kids, culture.
But you have the separate players blaming each other instead of working with each other. Teachers blame the parents, or they blame the goddamn kids which makes me want to commit violence upon those teachers. Parents blame the teachers, or they blame the kids. And the kids are just victimized by either lack of control or lack of proper guidance, so they are guided the media, and yes the media is there to deliberately guide their thoughts towards consumerism and celebrity worship. And the people involved don't realize they've been played by rich old men sitting on a hill somewhere, because guess what? Some people don't want blacks to do as well.
No, you misunderstood what he was saying. Measley was discussing it as a black problem, but not one exclusive to black people. He never framed it the way you've described.Londa said:
I don't think anyone disagrees it's a significant issue that affects the black population, and no one is putting teen pregnancy exclusively on black people here. It's just recognized as one of the prevalent issues that helps explain the breakdown of family structures and household stability in black populations.
That's an extremely bold judgment to make of an 18 year old kid.Measley said:
Takuan said:
I disagree. At 18 you're a legal adult. Some 18 year olds leave everything behind and join the military, or go to college. Its not an easy decision to change you life, and it takes courage. However, too many young adults want to be coddled and held well into their 30s.
neutralgamer02
Member
enzom21 said:
Yeah, that is what I always thought.
Anyway, I am surprised this thread is still going on. This discussion seems pretty pointless since it really isn't going to lead to the problem being solved. There are a lot of things that could be done to help the situation, but I doubt many of those actions will be taken with the state that the US is in right now.
Yes, I'm making a sweeping generalizations about criminals being dumb :/. If that's banworthy, my apologies & I'll try not to bring up the truth again.enzom21 said:
I actually should have made it more general since criminals are dumb altogether for getting involved in an illegal trade, it's just the ones who stand on street corners in front of cops selling their illegal wares are just at the pinnacle of it.
Did you miss all the posts where I make it clear that blacks are successful or are you really a defender of criminal activity and the dummies who practice it?
Karma Kramer
Banned
This whole conversation has turned ridiculous and anecdotal. The idea that blacks are dumber criminals therefore they get arrested 10 times as often despite using/selling drugs just as much as white dealers/users is ridiculous in many ways, but it doesn't even refute the main point I was trying to make. These drug laws have no affect on drug production/use... for the thirty years we have been having this war, there has been no improvement. It is an immoral policy and only leads to continuation of addiction through generations. If blacks, who have been oppressed clearly as of 50 years ago, are being affected by these laws by a larger margin, it does not matter the circumstances that led to their higher incarceration rates... what matters is these unnecessary and ineffective laws are continuing to oppress a minority that is still trying to become socially equal to whites. That is why the continuation of the drug war is a continuation of slavery... because it doesn't do what it intended (stop drugs).
The rebuttal to this will be of course, well they shouldn't break the law and should clean up their act. Interesting point, and I agree... however the method currently being used does not help to solve this. Black and white people use drugs equally... drug use comes down to social conditions and economic stability. Poor people use drugs, it has nothing to do with the color of your skin, but environment. And if current drug laws do nothing to fix these environments, continuing them is admitting support to oppression.
The rebuttal to this will be of course, well they shouldn't break the law and should clean up their act. Interesting point, and I agree... however the method currently being used does not help to solve this. Black and white people use drugs equally... drug use comes down to social conditions and economic stability. Poor people use drugs, it has nothing to do with the color of your skin, but environment. And if current drug laws do nothing to fix these environments, continuing them is admitting support to oppression.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Measley said:
You're mistaking being an apologist for basically recognizing the fact that there is no simple fix--and it sure as hell isn't as simple as saying, "I did it, so can you!"
All of the things you mention above are things I never had to deal with at a very early age.
Holy fuck man, we (society at large I mean) make jokes about people being a "crackhead". I have never seen a crackhead, never seen people get shot, drugs sold, etc. I have no idea what kind of stuff happens in places of extreme poverty, tbh.
However, there are places in the country that a miserable cesspools. Places that I would never want to venture into but there are some that have to live in that. And it's not as simple as just "finding a way out".
That's not apologizing, that's having perspective.
http://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/LongDescriptors.htmSSJ1Goku said:
Don't get hung up on the insult. It was a flippant comment. Let's say that black criminals are just as smart as their white counterparts since I don't want to be banned and I also have no stats to back that up- purely anecdotal. Let's say they don't sell drugs in obvious ways with a bigger staff(probably 20-30 times more than their white counterparts, but I digress). The point is that they are in trouble because, immoral laws or not, they are breaking them. I will never get how anyone things the drug trade overall is anything but immoral, but I'm in the minority on that one.Karma Kramer said:
Anyway, how on earth is it more ridiculous to say that catching blacks is easier since they are in plain view (If someone doesn't believe that, they have never been in the inner city) than saying that the ENTIRE justice system made up of all races and classes is favored heavily against black people as if they are merely standing around doing nothing like their white counterparts? You answer that and I'll back off of it.
The reality is clear as daytime crack selling on 5th & Jefferson. Again, not realizing the truth about something is what causes blacks to be exactly where they are in the inner city.
Racism exists in the justice system for sure. I mentioned before that I was pulled over on a charge of carrying grapefruit juice at 3 in the morning during finals. That was the only time it happened and I was never in danger of spending time in jail for it (I wish since I could have used the lawsuit money). But systemic and universal? No way. Racism can't be blamed for legitimate bad behaviour even if one choose to not define it as bad behovaior. That's not your call.
This is true because the drug trade is more lucrative (For some at least) than the risk of prison time involved. However, this does not mean that one immoral policy is going to be able to improve the lives of people/victims of another immoral policy. Allowing drugs to flourish legally in the black community will destroy that black community as easily as the liquor store on every corner does.
This is simply not true. No one is slaves to the drug war. It's a voluntary army. You don't blame the voluntary circumstance for the state you're in. It insults the people living a decent life in the inner city, the ones who escaped that life (Many friends and family are only 2-3 generations out of poverty), and totally ignores the reasons for the high incarceration rates- the method of distributing.
It ignores a real solution and replaces it with a reason for mediocrity that isn't shared by a large portion in the black community- so it in turns insults them as if we're freaks for actually living the American (White?) dream when it is easier to do in the 21st century.
Drug addiction is rampant across all races and classes, so addiction is not primary reason. Criminal activity is. Inner city though has a huge abundance of supply that will only get larger with the abolishment of laws. It will not help the black community beyond the drug business owner who doesn't even live in the community.
Well, the breaking the law part for sure. Don't be an idiot and break the law. That's a no brainer. However, the clean up your act part is not easy at all and I never indicated it was. How could it be considering how easy it is to stay addicted? No one is saying people should get arrested soley for being addicted to drugs. But they should definitely be arrested with whatever years are tied to the crime for distributing it.
Doing anything else does not help the black community at all which is kind of what I thought the thread was about, not whining about why black criminals are incarcerated more as if a freed crack dealer is anything to cheer.
Karma Kramer
Banned
JGS said:
You are aware drug use and abuse goes down with decriminalization? At least Portugal has shown clear evidence to support this since they have decriminalized drugs.
ryutaro's mama said:
Those places are cesspools because the people living in them make them cesspools.
I'm supposed to have pity for adults who purposely screw up their lives, the lives of their children, and their own neighborhoods? I understand that everyone can't be successful in this society, but everyone can at least show some pride and respect for their own community and not tear it apart just because they're broke or willfully ignorant.
Its like a family member who continues to fuck up and make wrong decisions after you give them love and support over and over again. There comes a point when you just have to cut the chord and let them sink or swim. If they sink, its no one's fault but their own, even if they wind up dead or in prison.
As for crackheads, I had a few on the paternal side of the family.
Londa said:
No. Blacks have the highest illegitimacy rate among all races in the U.S.
http://savannahnow.com/news/2010-11-07/blacks-struggle-72-unwed-mothers#.TqCigrLULpw
I never said anything about the teen birth rate.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Measley said:
How you think those places got to be that way?
Years and years of continued marginalization, "white flight", major businesses pulling, etc. Those places are forgotten zones man. Places that no one wants any part of and more important, places where people with low income, educations live. And there has to be a sense of helplessness that sets in over time. Not for all but for many.
Things weren't always like that, my friend. You make it seem like lower income areas just magically became that way overnight. Like the Ghetto Wizard waved his magical wand and there were suddenly inner city projects. How realistic is it to be upwardly mobile in communities where major businesses have closed shop and bailed? How easy is it to "get a job" for them? Sure, some flee but how does that fix the problem for those that remain? A "project/ghetto" system is doomed to fail man.
Ok, for the "Black family" that we are talking about, where is the "love and support they are given, over and over again" coming from?
The US government? (you better not say welfare/food stamps)
Other well to do Black people? (based on your posts, you certainly aren't one of those people)
The schools? (where Black kids get thrown into Special Ed classes at a higher rate than other races?)
Please, tell me where all that "love and support" is coming from that these ungrateful people seem to be ignoring...
Ok.
Captain Sparrow
Banned
Londa said:
I don't know why we changed the discussion to teen pregnancies. That is abolustely a huge problem, but it's not exactly what we are talking about today.
Don't veer from the true problem, 67% of African Americans are raised by a single parent.
- Status