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[Horse Detective]

Solutions? Bootstraps. Church. Hard work. Stop actin ghetto.

How would church solve that problem? Haha

 

[royalan]

How would church solve that problem? Haha

Jeezus, of course.

 

[Devolution]

I think some people get frustrated because it seems there is lots of talk about how it got this way, but not a great deal on how to fix it.

Have you watched the recent documentary about Harry Belafonte Sing Your Song? It was fairly interesting about his life and at the end goes into a community outreach project he did recently to try to get youth more aware of issues involving incarceration being the new form of slavery.

"Artists should be gatekeepers of the truth," Belafonte said. "Stop behaving like a commodity and start exerting yourself, and use your power…Be an instrument of a greater truth."

Sing Your Song

 

[samus i am]

How would church solve that problem? Haha

In all honesty, people use church as a way to guilt you into doing the morally "right" thing. Not saying it's the best way to go about things but..... yea

 

[Dead Man]

When everyone currently over 60 in the southern states finally kicks the bucket, I think we will see real results! Don't you?

Quite possibly.

Well, its kind of hard to start discussing solutions when people don't seem to want to actually dissect the problem. You have to consider the many factors that contribute to black people being where they are in society.

Yeah, that's fine, but it has been discussed to death. Most people with half an ounce of empathy or social awareness know, and those that don't, probably won't.

At some point it needs to be about more than identifying historical causes. Identifying immediate causes, identifying opportunities for improvement, identifying ways of creating social engagement. These are what need to be done, not beating people over the head because they don't want to talk about history some more.

You can argue with people for years about history. People cannot deny the current situation without looking like idiots.

Edit:

Have you watched the recent documentary about Harry Belafonte Sing Your Song? It was fairly interesting about his life and at the end goes into a community outreach project he did recently to try to get youth more aware of issues involving incarceration being the new form of slavery.



Sing Your Song

I have not, thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

 

[Measley]

Of course to you, the world is pretty simple in black and white, so you don't have to worry about any of that anyway. Not your job. Just keep passing and failing those kids, man.

The world is truly that simple. Just look at a minority group that tends to value education and personal responsibility versus a minority group that tends to not value education and personal responsibility.

The Asian-American poster made a very good point. They have also experienced discrimination and racism from the white majority. What did they do? They educated themselves and took advantage of the opportunities that were presented before them, and now as a group they have a median income that exceeds the white majority. They also have the lowest incarceration rate of any minority group in the U.S.

Education is the key. Too many blacks reject education as selling out, and as a group they have suffered for it.

 

[coldvein]

How would church solve that problem? Haha

by teaching morals?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I really hope that Measley isn't taking this attitude he has displayed here with some of his harder to reach students.

"My family valued education, why can't you?"

"It's your own fault that you're failing."

"Make better decisions, kid!"

 

[JCX]

How would church solve that problem? Haha

Church has pretty much always been a strong rallying point in black communities. While I think it has some nasty side-effects (anti-gay and other views that can come with evangelical churches), it does provide structure and an extended family in the absence of a close biological one.

One bigger issue are the numerous storefront churches in poor areas. These churches should combine and pool resources to better serve the community, but egos and tradition likely get in the way.

 

[Horse Detective]

by teaching morals?

As if they are not teachable without it? Seriously people. We are not acknowledging that a typical person SHOULD be able to distinguish right from wrong. The best thing that can be done is have parents teach morals.

Church has pretty much always been a strong rallying point in black communities. While I think it has some nasty side-effects (anti-gay and other views that can come with evangelical churches), it does provide structure and an extended family in the absence of a close biological one.

One bigger issue are the numerous storefront churches in poor areas. These churches should combine and pool resources to better serve the community, but egos and tradition likely get in the way.

I agree in that it is a positive thing in terms of community and structure. I do not, how ever agree with the narrow minded attitude that usually is occupied by the older church goers.

 

[JCX]

The world is truly that simple. Just look at a minority group that tends to value education and personal responsibility versus a minority group that tends to not value education and personal responsibility.

The Asian-American poster made a very good point. They have also experienced discrimination and racism from the white majority. What did they do? They educated themselves and took advantage of the opportunities that were presented before them, and now as a group they have a median income that exceeds the white majority. They also have the lowest incarceration rate of any minority group in the U.S.

Education is the key. Too many blacks reject education as selling out, and as a group they have suffered for it.

Even if they came here poor, they chose to come here. With that, comes the family pressure to succeed and emphasis placed on education. If you just took a bunch of Chinese people, forced them through the conditions that black people went through, the end result would probably be similar to the situation of black people today.

 

[weepy]

Loaded question, but I'll try and be brief.

I think the single biggest contributing factor holding black men back are themselves. The hood mentality featuring all the usual elements like self-hate, making kids they have no intention of fathering, marginalizing education, anti-establishment, etc etc. etc.

Yes, black people have had an unceremonious start to life here in the United States, but there comes a time that we (yes I'm black) need to look in the mirror and have a sense of personal responsibility to ensure we are educated, supporting our families, and being a constructive influence to our communities instead of being destructive. While there are systematic institutions and laws that disproportionately affect black men, we need to stop taking the cheese of looking for shortcuts to success. Slangin a dime bag, jacking someone, or running hustles are short term monetary solutions with long term consequences.

As a quick anecdote, I work as a Career Counselor for a school and I service students that are primarily people of color. When I offer job opportunities and internships to students and/or graduates, the sense of urgency and initiative is not there. For the ones that do wish to move forward, they expect me to write their resumes and cover letters without even giving a honest effort to do it themselves. When I point out a real world job expects you to handle your shit without being coddled, I catch shade and have at times been accused of being an Uncle Tom. This isn't a one off either, the tone of entitlement is ridiculous. I work in the field I do because I want to make a difference, but sometimes hearing shit like that makes me wonder why I should even bother.

This is just scratching the surface. I try and influence the younger ones I can that look up to me as an someone that "made it" and teach them values that will benefit them as young men. I look at my life where I went to schools in South Central LA and I believe the "secret" to my accomplishments was making sound choices on those crossroad moments. My dad was partially around as a cocaine addict, and seeing him in tough spots over the years really embedded a fear of failure that still drives me today.

What can be done? That's a whole other thread and an even longer response...

You sound like a family member of mines...

Quick question: For the kids that do want help but can't help themselves, do they actually know where to began? Most kids like them are ill prepared for college and/or the working environment because of their up-bring. These kids probably hear from their parent(s), mentors, and teachers to stay in school and get an education, but there's only so much that system could teach them, especially if they're coming from a public schooling system. Point is, even if they are trying hard to get an education or a least get a legit career, they haven't received the right tools necessary to advance in their goals.
No wonder they're frustrated...

Education is the key. Too many blacks reject education as selling out, and as a group they have suffered for it.

Call me willfully ignorant, but how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[akira28]

Education is the key. Too many blacks reject education as selling out, and as a group they have suffered for it.

I'm sure that you can find a way to approach them on a level where they would respect education and learning. In fact, I know you can.

 

[coldvein]

As if they are not teachable without it? Seriously people. We are not acknowledging that a typical person SHOULD be able to distinguish right from wrong. The best thing that can be done is have parents teach morals.

well yeah, ideally "thou shalt not steal" etc. etc. should be taught by parents.

 

[Nesotenso]

Yes. I was born in the Midwest, but my family comes from the South (Mississippi and Virginia).

Maybe I confused you with some other poster from the UK.

I guess you do speak from your experience. But it's important to keep in mind that its probably not a universal truth.

On the topic itself, I am not knowledgeable enough about the extent of slavery's impact on the status of African American today but a good strong parental influence goes a long way in molding the future of a young man.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Education is the key. Too many blacks reject education as selling out, and as a group they have suffered for it.

To put it bluntly, you aren't doing your job.

 

[Measley]

Even if they came here poor, they chose to come here. With that, comes the family pressure to succeed and emphasis placed on education. If you just took a bunch of Chinese people, forced them through the conditions that black people went through, the end result would probably be similar to the situation of black people today.

Again, blacks had a similar attitude during Jim Crow and immediately following the CRM.

The high incarceration, illegitimacy, and dropout rates are a fairly recent phenomena.

 

[royalan]

Yeah, that's fine, but it has been discussed to death. Most people with half an ounce of empathy or social awareness know, and those that don't, probably won't.

At some point it needs to be about more than identifying historical causes. Identifying immediate causes, identifying opportunities for improvement, identifying ways of creating social engagement. These are what need to be done, not beating people over the head because they don't want to talk about history some more.

You can argue with people for years about history. People cannot deny the current situation without looking like idiots.

I see what you're saying, but again how can you properly discuss solutions when people don't even want to acknowledge factors that contribute to the problem?

The effects of slavery are obvious to you and to me, but they aren't to everyone. Hell, there are even people in this thread (some of them even black, sadly) who want to outright dismiss slavery (and the following decades of Jim Crow) as having absolutely nothing to do with the social status of the majority of black people in this country.

I'm not suggesting we get hung up on slavery. What's done is done. It just can't can't be dismissed as part of the problem.

 

[Measley]

To put it bluntly, you aren't doing your job.

No offense, but you've never taught at an inner-city school in a major American city.

Until you have, you have no clue about my job, or how its done.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

To put it bluntly, you aren't doing your job.

I said this:

I really hope that Measley isn't taking this attitude he has displayed here with some of his harder to reach students.

"My family valued education, why can't you?"

"It's your own fault that you're failing."

"Make better decisions, kid!"

 

[Horse Detective]

No offense, but you've never taught at an inner-city high school in a major American city.

Until you have, you have no clue about my job, or how its done.

You should not have put "no offense" at the beginning. People should learn not to comment about things they have never experienced.

 

[Measley]

I'm sure that you can find a way to approach them on a level where they would respect education and learning. In fact, I know you can.

Not when the overriding culture views education as a product of "the man", and peers who embrace education as "sellouts".

 

[Sutton Dagger]

No offense, but you've never taught at an inner-city school in a major American city.

Until you have, you have no clue about my job, or how its done.

You also haven't taught underprivileged Aboriginal children in low socio economic areas, but I would expect you (as a fellow educator) to pull me up if my attitude was 'well if the kids don't want to learn it's their fault'.

 

[weepy]

No offense, but you've never taught at an inner-city school in a major American city.

Until you have, you have no clue about my job, or how its done.

This thread grew too fast for me to actually read everything but what is your job exactly? Teacher? Counselor?

 

[Dead Man]

I see what you're saying, but again how can you properly discuss solutions when people don't even want to acknowledge factors that contribute to the problem?

The effects of slavery are obvious to you and to me, but they aren't to everyone. Hell, there are even people in this thread (some of them even black, sadly) who want to outright dismiss slavery (and the following decades of Jim Crow) as having absolutely nothing to do with the social status of the majority of black people in this country.

I'm not suggesting we get hung up on slavery. What's done is done. It just can't can't be dismissed as part of the problem.

Yeah, and it must be massively frustrating when people do that. But I don't know of a way to change peoples ideas of historical causes that would be more effective than talking about immediate causes and problems. I do have no idea what it feels like to be in the situation of a black youth in America. But I do have some idea about the ways to fix social problems, and it does not include expecting everyone to admit there is even a problem. People are shite, that never changes.

Fake edit: I just re read that, sorry if sounds patronising. I am not very elegant with my phrasing!

 

[Antiochus]

Clean up the lead paints

Ensure adequate intake of omega acids, iodine, trace minerals

Testosterone receptor blockers/modulators for males 13-22 with proven records, perhaps micro-dosage for those genetically at risk

 

[akira28]

When Mease fails a child, he REALLY fails them.

 

[weepy]

When Mease fails a child, he REALLY fails them.

So he's a teacher?

 

[Steelrain]

Smh. I was hoping this thread wouldn't devolve into ad hominems.

 

[akira28]

Smh. I was hoping this thread wouldn't devolve into ad hominems.

From when? Page one?

So he's a teacher?

depends on if you're capable of learning or not.....


...

 

[Measley]

You also haven't taught underprivileged Aboriginal children in low socio economic areas...

Correct. Which is why I don't have the knowledge (and arrogance) to question your ability to do your job.

 

[foodtaster]

Black people need a hyper influence. Basically one of the following:

1.) Ridiculously rich black man. Say, top 5 richest men. He gives some iconic interview on the state of black men and black culture. Puts money out there to crush the problems.

2.) MLK redeux. Some charismatic influential speaker does a series of events and gives a memorable speech on what black people need to do to get better.

3.) Introduction of a new rapper. Ideally a graduate from a top 10 school. With a masters, and all that good stuff. Has awesome rap, awesome music. Becomes out of the best musicians/celebrities of all time and incorporates educational shat in his rap.

etc.

 

[Shiggie]

Not when the overriding culture views education as a product of "the man", and peers who embrace education as "sellouts".

Jesus, where do you teach? I went to school in Crown Heights from elementary and all throughout high school. And Never have I encountered and such mentality. Most of the kids who slack off simply weren't being reached by the teacher and simply needed more discipline in the class room and a teacher that knew what they were doing. One thing kids can smell is weakness and they go right for it if your guard is down. Also, I personally know kids who were in gangs (crips), as hood as you can get and were on the honor roll getting A's and shit and went to college. Nerdy kids get teased but when one of the cool, gangsta kids get A's its suddenly not "white" anymore. No one back then was calling it selling out. Some kids simply needed attention and acted out when it wasn't present. And dont dont get me wrong there were some kids who simply didn't make it. They weren't heroes or anything. This is just my experience.

 

[Londa]

Black people need a hyper influence. Basically one of the following:

1.) Ridiculously rich black man. Say, top 5 richest men. He gives some iconic interview on the state of black men and black culture. Puts money out there to crush the problems.

2.) MLK redeux. Some charismatic influential speaker does a series of events and gives a memorable speech on what black people need to do to get better.

3.) Introduction of a new rapper. Ideally a graduate from a top 10 school. With a masters, and all that good stuff. Has awesome rap, awesome music. Becomes out of the best musicians/celebrities of all time and incorporates educational shat in his rap.

etc.

rap is not the voice inside every black person telling them what to do. Black people are not simular to the Borg. goodness...

 

[DominoKid]

Black people need a hyper influence. Basically one of the following:

1.) Ridiculously rich black man. Say, top 5 richest men. He gives some iconic interview on the state of black men and black culture. Puts money out there to crush the problems.

2.) MLK redeux. Some charismatic influential speaker does a series of events and gives a memorable speech on what black people need to do to get better.

3.) Introduction of a new rapper. Ideally a graduate from a top 10 school. With a masters, and all that good stuff. Has awesome rap, awesome music. Becomes out of the best musicians/celebrities of all time and incorporates educational shat in his rap.

etc.

i think i'd shoot myself if number 3 happens. that would suck on so many levels.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Correct. Which is why I don't have the knowledge (and arrogance) to question your ability to do your job.

How about you read the entire quote without dissecting it, it makes much more sense that way. Essentially you're of the mentality that these kids don't want to learn so you aren't responsible in any way for their education. Call me arrogant for questioning your teaching philosophy if you want, but this mindset is half the problem, you don't realise the difference you could make (to the children in your care).

 

[akira28]

i think i'd shoot myself if number 3 happens. that would suck on so many levels.

???

I rather enjoyed the 'knowledge rap' period. I wish that it was more popular.

I'd prefer a severely angry and loud black man with a vocabulary that would dwarf a normal MC. It could so work.

 

[Measley]

How about you read the entire quote without dissecting it, it makes much more sense that way. Essentially you're of the mentality that these kids don't want to learn so you aren't responsible in any way for their education. Call me arrogant for questioning your teaching philosophy if you want, but this mindset is half the problem, you don't realise the difference you could make (to the children in your care).

Every truth has four corners: as a teacher I give them one corner, and it is up to them to find the other three.

That corner is all that I'm responsible for.

 

[foodtaster]

rap is not the voice inside every black person telling them what to do. Black people are not simular to the Borg. goodness...

lol, are you kidding? The vast majority of the blacks that "aren't succeeding" listen to rap.

 

[foodtaster]

i think i'd shoot myself if number 3 happens. that would suck on so many levels.

why? it'd be pretty subtle.

maybe something like:
"i'm a superstar, a supernova. I'd begin, but it's already ova."

 

[SleepyJohn11]

Solutions? Bootstraps. Church. Hard work. Stop actin ghetto. Stop with all the hippty hop. Stop having sex before marriage, and pull up ya damn pants! You want solutions?! I just gave you a list!

This is what working-class, above poverty line black christian communities are giving though. Not so helpful and doesn't do good job outreaching others.

Black people need a hyper influence. Basically one of the following:

1.) Ridiculously rich black man. Say, top 5 richest men. He gives some iconic interview on the state of black men and black culture. Puts money out there to crush the problems.
We already got plenty of those. It's the specific attitude and outlet on life that needs improvement

2.) MLK redeux. Some charismatic influential speaker does a series of events and gives a memorable speech on what black people need to do to get better.
As real social activist defying and explanding culture/societal norms, yes. As simply a speaker/preacher who acts more politically, hell no. We don't need another Jesse Jackson or Al Shaprton. And I'm afraid Cornel West is head towards that too.

3.) Introduction of a new rapper. Ideally a graduate from a top 10 school. With a masters, and all that good stuff. Has awesome rap, awesome music. Becomes out of the best musicians/celebrities of all time and incorporates educational shat in his rap.
When it comes to music in culture, rap and r&B has too much attention, there are other "black music" expressing more things that needs more spotlight. Unless you mean more alternative/conscious/other styles of hip-hop than ... say Wiz Khalifa and Drake.

 

[foodtaster]

How many ridiculously black men have made their money in something that's not entertainment related? Exactly. And yeah it wouldn't be another Cornel West. That would be pointless. And maybe someone like Drake, but again, a positive influence. Drake isn't well, a positive influence at all.

 

[akira28]

This is what working-class, above poverty line black christian communities are giving though. Not so helpful and doesn't do good job outreaching others.

/sarcasm I was doing my Herman Cain impression.

 

[royalan]

How many ridiculously black men have made their money in something that's not entertainment related? Exactly. And yeah it wouldn't be another Cornel West. That would be pointless. And maybe someone like Drake, but again, a positive influence. Drake isn't well, a positive influence at all.

Yo, that dude is ridiculously black!

 

[Shiggie]

How many ridiculously black men have made their money in something that's not entertainment related? Exactly. And yeah it wouldn't be another Cornel West. That would be pointless. And maybe someone like Drake, but again, a positive influence. Drake isn't well, a positive influence at all.

Obama?

And yeah,

Yo, that dude is ridiculously black!

lol

 

[akira28]

Every truth has four corners: as a teacher I give them one corner, and it is up to them to find the other three.

That corner is all that I'm responsible for.

And the ones that don't get it?

What does the four corners quote mean to you?

 

[foodtaster]

Yo, that dude is ridiculously black!

Hahahaha, I meant ridiculously RICH.

Obama?

I'm talking Buffett/Gates type money here.

 

[Blackace]

1) Bootstraps
2) Get over it
3) My grandfather was the first black doctor in his area so everyone else can do it too
4) Slavery effects no one.. at all!


things I have learned in this thread..

 

[ryutaro's mama]

1) Bootstraps
2) Get over it
3) My grandfather was the first black doctor in his area so everyone else can do it too
4) Slavery effects no one.. at all!


things I have learned in this thread..

5) Pull your pants up from around your ankles
6) We don't have to sit in the back anymore
7) You too can be ridiculously black

 

[Blackace]

5) Pull your pants up from around your ankles
6) We don't have to sit in the back anymore
7) You too can be ridiculously black

8) Close your legs black woman!
9) White criminals are geniuses
10) It's your fault