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[SmokyDave]

Can we get a poll on how many posters feel that slavery had no effect on the current status of African-Americans?

I keep reading that 'nobody' will accept that but that's plainly wrong as plenty of people in this topic seem to accept that. Seems to me that only a small minority don't accept that.

Once we arrive at a consensus and we all agree that slavery really fucked black people over, we can talk about rebuilding families and improving education.

Edit: or we could make lists lampooning Measleys comments because it feeds into the perception that 'nobody gets it, nobody ever will get it, why bother trying'.

 

[Dead Man]

11) Lists are fun.
12) A few idiots means we should give up on anything that isn't snarky lists.
13) ... got nothing.

 

[Blackace]

Can we get a poll on how many posters feel that slavery had no effect on the current status of African-Americans?

I keep reading that 'nobody' will accept that but that's plainly wrong as plenty of people in this topic seem to accept that. Seems to me that only a small minority don't accept that.

Once we arrive at a consensus and we all agree that slavery really fucked black people over, we can talk about rebuilding families and improving education.

again. this is a serious education and race issue. White people don't want to feel guilty for something they didn't do.. The truth is no white people here had anything to do with it.. so the stance is it was long time ago.. move on.. some blacks even believe it as well.. but it is impossible for that to be the case..

 

[speedline]

No American alive today has ever owned a slave. No American alive today has ever been a slave. The problem with the black community is responsibility. The Black leaders are teaching that someone else is responsible for the black problems. The leadership is the problem. The Bill Cosby's of the world are ridiculed while the Al Sharpton's are exhalted. There is your problem.

 

[royalan]

14) Stop using that broken ass english!

Yeah, and it must be massively frustrating when people do that. But I don't know of a way to change peoples ideas of historical causes that would be more effective than talking about immediate causes and problems. I do have no idea what it feels like to be in the situation of a black youth in America. But I do have some idea about the ways to fix social problems, and it does not include expecting everyone to admit there is even a problem. People are shite, that never changes.

Fake edit: I just re read that, sorry if sounds patronising. I am not very elegant with my phrasing!

I fully agree with you as far as the national discourse goes. But, in this thread, it seems that a lot of people who choose to remain ignorant and believe that the past has absolutely zero to do with the black experience today carry that same ignorance into discussion of the solutions...i.e. "Just buck-up and get the fuck over it!"

 

[Blackace]

No American alive today has ever owned a slave. No American alive today has ever been a slave. The problem with the black community is responsibility. The Black leaders are teaching that someone else is responsible for the black problems. The leadership is the problem. The Bill Cosby's of the world are ridiculed while the Al Sharpton's are exhalted. There is your problem.

Yeah.. but what about the people alive who are in power and voted against the 1964 civil rights act? Robert Byrd (who is dead now...) was one such man stayed in power until his death in 1964... Just owning or being a slave isn't where it ended.. but that's been talked about throughout already and your comment has already been taken apart..

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Hey SmokyDave, it's all your fault I got involved in this thread today.

 

[SmokyDave]

again. this is a serious education and race issue. White people don't want to feel guilty for something they didn't do.. The truth is no white people here had anything to do with it.. so the stance is it was long time ago.. move on.. some blacks even believe it as well.. but it is impossible for that to be the case..

But I'm a white person and I don't feel that way. If you punch me and blame slavery, we got a problem. If you tell me that slavery (& Jim Crow) restricted generational wealth transfers amongst black people for generations, damaged the black family unit, turned black people against other black people, left black people behind in property and business ownership etc, I'm going to nod and agree with you.

Where we might disagree is on the relative importance of slavery today in comparison with anti-intellectualism or institutionalised racism or single-parent families or lop-sided drugs laws or any of the other factors in play here.

No doubt there's a section of the white population that really don't want to hear about any of this but you don't focus on them, you focus on the folks that are listening. Reach the deaf ones through the education system.

Hey SmokyDave, it's all your fault I got involved in this thread today.

I really appreciate that though. I shouldn't have bitten your head off yesterday.

 

[Blackace]

But I'm a white person and I don't feel that way. If you punch me and blame slavery, we got a problem. If you tell me that slavery (& Jim Crow) restricted generational wealth transfers amongst black people for generations, damaged the black family unit, turned black people against other black people, left black people behind in property and business ownership etc, I'm going to nod and agree with you.

Where we might disagree is on the relative importance of slavery today in comparison with anti-intellectualism or institutionalised racism or single-parent families or lop-sided drugs laws or any of the other factors in play here.

No doubt there's a section of the white population that really don't want to hear about any of this but you don't focus on them, you focus on the folks that are listening. Reach the deaf ones through the education system.


I really appreciate that though. I shouldn't have bitten your head off yesterday.

This is pretty much what I have been saying the entire time.. but you get a lot of bootstraps and other off the wall comments..

 

[speedline]

14) Stop using that broken ass english!



I fully agree with you as far as the national discourse goes. But, in this thread, it seems that a lot of people who choose to remain ignorant and believe that the past has absolutely zero to do with the black experience today carry that same ignorance into discussion of the solutions...i.e. "Just buck-up and get the fuck over it!"

NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST. So yes, buck-up and get over it would be a good way. Actually, it's the only way because you know what, NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST. You want to spend the rest of your life complaining about something that can't be changed, thats your choice. The rest of us will go out and live productive lives and try to let bygones be bygones. No matter how much guilt is placed on white people, we can't change what happened hundreds of years ago. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the overwhelming majority of whites have next to zero advantages stemming directly to slavery. No one I have EVER met is wealthy because of some past family slave driven income. I'm sure there are some left out there, but not many.

What would you like for society to do exactly? Pass out checks? It's not gonna happen. So, yes, it would be in the best interest of the Black Community to get past the slavery issue. Seriously, it's the same as a rape victim never getting past the rape incident. Entire lives ruined over something that can never be undone. So, so sad.

 

[akira28]

Dave and Deadman:

Aside from lampooning that one person, there have been a few solutions referenced. The question is will anyone do any of the things proposed, and at which level?


I say that the world that people live in has to change first. Counties, cities and towns, communities, to meet the aspirations of the people within them. The climate for improvement will be there, the negative environment challenged at multiple levels. Social progams need to stop being the first things on the chopping block, let them do what they're designed to do, and you'll see that change.


It can start with the individuals, acting for their individual selves. You can break it down to the personal level, and move on up and outward. It CAN start at home, but the entirety of the group trying to solve the problem doesn't have to stop there. But self hatred and personal responsibility can be addressed. Headstart programs are proven to help, but when kids grow older and age out of those programs, they no longer have that support and it shows in the statistics. Children after school go home and have the TV to keep them company, or they stay out to socialize with their peers and there's a serious lack of guidance there as well. It's not like people have no ideas on what to do. It's not like the will is lacking in the community. Support is lacking, though, both from those who need help, and those who could do the helping.

 

[GamerSoul]

Can we get a poll on how many posters feel that slavery had no effect on the current status of African-Americans?

Just to put my two cents in I think slavery did have an impact in some way. I don't know how anyone can really deny it. This is why History, although biased at times, is very important. Sometimes you have to go to the beginning to understand the present.

And thanks for the list guys, it's a good summary of the thread. lol

 

[Blackace]

NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST. So yes, buck-up and get over it would be a good way. Actually, it's the only way because you know what, NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST. You want to spend the rest of your life complaining about something that can't be changed, thats your choice. The rest of us will go out and live productive lives and try to let bygones be bygones. No matter how much guilt is placed on white people, we can't change what happened hundreds of years ago. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the overwhelming majority of whites have next to zero advantages stemming directly to slavery. No one I have EVER met is wealthy because of some past family slave driven income. I'm sure there are some left out there, but not many.

What would you like for society to do exactly? Pass out checks? It's not gonna happen. So, yes, it would be in the best interest of the Black Community to get past the slavery issue. Seriously, it's the same as a rape victim never getting past the rape incident. Entire lives ruined over something that can never be undone. So, so sad.

how is the fact the by race wealth is lopsided because of slavery sad? or learning about that sad? ignoring the past completely in an attempt to buck up and move on is sad.. acknowledging the position you were dealt therefore making you more prepared for dealing with the reality of the situation is not sad nor unproductive..

 

[royalan]

NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST. So yes, buck-up and get over it would be a good way. Actually, it's the only way because you know what, NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST. You want to spend the rest of your life complaining about something that can't be changed, thats your choice. The rest of us will go out and live productive lives and try to let bygones be bygones. No matter how much guilt is placed on white people, we can't change what happened hundreds of years ago. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the overwhelming majority of whites have next to zero advantages stemming directly to slavery. No one I have EVER met is wealthy because of some past family slave driven income. I'm sure there are some left out there, but not many.

What would you like for society to do exactly? Pass out checks? It's not gonna happen. So, yes, it would be in the best interest of the Black Community to get past the slavery issue. Seriously, it's the same as a rape victim never getting past the rape incident. Entire lives ruined over something that can never be undone. So, so sad.

You know, if you want to actually take part in this discussion it would be wise to actually read the thread.

 

[SmokyDave]

NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST.

It's not about changing the past. It's about recognising the past and realising what effect that has on the present.

This is pretty much what I have been saying the entire time.. but you get a lot of bootstraps and other off the wall comments..

I know, I guess I just want people to ignore the bootstrap stuff and keep posting because there's so much else to learn / discuss on this subject. I can understand why that isn't easy though, the posts come in waves like a fucked up Space Invaders machine.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST. So yes, buck-up and get over it would be a good way. Actually, it's the only way because you know what, NO ONE CAN CHANGE THE PAST. You want to spend the rest of your life complaining about something that can't be changed, thats your choice. The rest of us will go out and live productive lives and try to let bygones be bygones. No matter how much guilt is placed on white people, we can't change what happened hundreds of years ago. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the overwhelming majority of whites have next to zero advantages stemming directly to slavery. No one I have EVER met is wealthy because of some past family slave driven income. I'm sure there are some left out there, but not many.

What would you like for society to do exactly? Pass out checks? It's not gonna happen. So, yes, it would be in the best interest of the Black Community to get past the slavery issue. Seriously, it's the same as a rape victim never getting past the rape incident. Entire lives ruined over something that can never be undone. So, so sad.

This sort of reasoning has be dealt with enough already, I suggest you read some previous posts.

 

[Purexed]

You sound like a family member of mines...

Quick question: For the kids that do want help but can't help themselves, do they actually know where to began? Most kids like them are ill prepared for college and/or the working environment because of their up-bring. These kids probably hear from their parent(s), mentors, and teachers to stay in school and get an education, but there's only so much that system could teach them, especially if they're coming from a public schooling system. Point is, even if they are trying hard to get an education or a least get a legit career, they haven't received the right tools necessary to advance in their goals.
No wonder they're frustrated...



Call me willfully ignorant, but how did you come to this conclusion?

I don't think lack of resources is a problem in the scenario I'm talking about. A distinct lack of will and/or initiative are the root causes. Public schools are less than perfect, but I came from a public school system and I made the best of the lemons I had.

 

[MWS Natural]

It's not about changing the past. It's about recognising the past and realising what effect that has on the present.


I know, I guess I just want people to ignore the bootstrap stuff and keep posting because there's so much else to learn / discuss on this subject. I can understand why that isn't easy though, the posts come in waves like a fucked up Space Invaders machine.

 

[royalan]

Re-adding my opinion to the mix, I think exposure is the key. Exposing kids at a younger age to the world outside of the communities they live in, and introducing them to opportunities that instill the belief that there is more out there and that they can achieve more than what they know. It seems crazy but a lot of black kids truly don't know that there is more out there to be had.

More funding for after-school programs and more hands-on, in-class learning. It's really hard to develop an appreciation for learning in children when you have teachers who've given up hope (*cough*) teaching to a test, deferring most of their job to lengthy homework assignments, and not being interactive. Though I guess this is more of a general idea. When I was in school it was always the teachers who genuinely seemed to care about their students who got the most respect. Inner-city schools need to stop being a dumping ground for the unqualified who don't give a fuck.

As far as what the community can do for itself...a few people touched on it much earlier in the thread, but black people need to ease up on segregating ourselves. I never really considered it, but a lot of black kids really don't feel like they can look up to people who aren't black. Sticking to our own was beneficial during the years immediately following slavery, but now I feel that the mentality heavily contributes to the subconscious idea that blacks aren't a part of the world at large. Almost like we're not allowed to be.

 

[Renmei]

how is the fact the by race wealth is lopsided because of slavery sad? or learning about that sad? ignoring the past completely in an attempt to buck up and move on is sad.. acknowledging the position you were dealt therefore making you more prepared for dealing with the reality of the situation is not sad nor unproductive..

I'm that pesky Asian again, welcome to the problems of every immigrant group who has come to the US. The vast majority of us don't sail over with boatloads of cash, we all started at the very bottom (washing dishes in my grandparent's case). And some immigrant groups have done alright for ourselves to varying degrees, so why are blacks still at the very bottom? IMO American blacks would do well to study how other immigrant groups have pulled themselves up and take some notes while putting your own spin on it.

It's not about changing the past. It's about recognising the past and realising what effect that has on the present.

Of course slavery and the Jim Crow laws have had a stunting effect, because blacks let them. It's like that crazy gf who just won't let past wrongs go and will bring them up over and over again. Let it go and save the relationship and everyone's sanity~

 

[royalan]

I'm that pesky Asian again, welcome to the problems of every immigrant group who has come to the US. The vast majority of us don't sail over with boatloads of cash, we all started at the very bottom (washing dishes in my grandparent's case). And some immigrant groups have done alright for ourselves to varying degrees, so why are blacks still at the very bottom? IMO American blacks would do well to study how other immigrant groups have pulled themselves up and take some notes while putting your own spin on it.



Of course slavery and the Jim Crow laws have had a stunting effect, because blacks let them. It's like that crazy ex who just won't let wrongs go and will bring them up over and over again. Let it go~

You haven't said anything new or added anything worthwhile to the discussion. Why do you feel the need to continue posting? This post is just a rehash of the borderline racist crap you've been repeating.

And now you've compared hundreds of years of discrimination to a crazy ex...wow. You're just trolling at this point.

 

[Blackace]

I'm that pesky Asian again, welcome to the problems of every immigrant group who has come to the US. The vast majority of us don't sail over with boatloads of cash, we all started at the very bottom (washing dishes in my grandparent's case). And some immigrant groups have done alright for ourselves to varying degrees, so why are blacks still at the very bottom? IMO American blacks would do well to study how other immigrant groups have pulled themselves up and take some notes while putting your own spin on it.

first all.. immigrant that came over.. did just that come over by their freewill... being able to retain their identity and culture.. Blacks have being treated like as cattle and even divided by skin tone, and having everything about their history and cultures erased are even comparable to be honest..

 

[SmokyDave]

Of course slavery and the Jim Crow laws have had a stunting effect, because blacks let them. It's like that crazy gf who just won't let past wrongs go and will bring them up over and over again. Let it go and save the relationship and everyone's sanity~

Pretending that this was a decent analogy, I once had a crazy girlfriend. She was so crazy I left her, about 6 years ago. She still harasses me to this day (she jumped out of a moving car once when she saw me on the street) and occasionally tries to fuck things up between me and my missus. How is this my fault? How do I stop her doing it?

People don't have absolute control over all external stimuli. Black people didn't 'let' this happen, they were powerless to stop it.

Edit:

Appreciated.

 

[reggie]

again. this is a serious education and race issue. White people don't want to feel guilty for something they didn't do.. The truth is no white people here had anything to do with it.. so the stance is it was long time ago.. move on.. some blacks even believe it as well.. but it is impossible for that to be the case..

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, are you saying white people should feel guilty about slavery or they shouldn't?

 

[Blackace]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, are you saying white people should feel guilty about slavery or they shouldn't?

they shouldn't exactly... but not accepting the fact that it happened and is still damaging is wrong

 

[The Incarnation]

Black people need a hyper influence. Basically one of the following:

1.) Ridiculously rich black man. Say, top 5 richest men. He gives some iconic interview on the state of black men and black culture. Puts money out there to crush the problems.

2.) MLK redeux. Some charismatic influential speaker does a series of events and gives a memorable speech on what black people need to do to get better.

3.) Introduction of a new rapper. Ideally a graduate from a top 10 school. With a masters, and all that good stuff. Has awesome rap, awesome music. Becomes out of the best musicians/celebrities of all time and incorporates educational shat in his rap.

etc.

I'd say that people's worship of fame and money is part of the problem in many Black communities.

The worship of vanity and greed is never good.

 

[Londa]

I'm that pesky Asian again, welcome to the problems of every immigrant group who has come to the US. The vast majority of us don't sail over with boatloads of cash, we all started at the very bottom (washing dishes in my grandparent's case). And some immigrant groups have done alright for ourselves to varying degrees, so why are blacks still at the very bottom? IMO American blacks would do well to study how other immigrant groups have pulled themselves up and take some notes while putting your own spin on it.



Of course slavery and the Jim Crow laws have had a stunting effect, because blacks let them. It's like that crazy gf who just won't let past wrongs go and will bring them up over and over again. Let it go and save the relationship and everyone's sanity~

You have no idea what you are talking about, at all. It's kind of sad that you refused to consider a different view, yet you say you want to understand. All you really want to do is have a "woe is me too!" view. Asians had it bad! Why you blacks can't do right? It isn't hard to do it, see me, a Asian American has?

You really just don't get it. I'm assuming now that you just want to troll this thread.

 

[Zzoram]

I'd say that people's worship of fame and money is part of the problem in many Black communities.

The worship of vanity and greed is never good.

It's fine if the path to money they worship makes sense.

Not everyone can be a rapper or sports superstar. There needs to be a shift towards role models in more plentiful professions.

People always joke that Asians all want to be doctors, engineers, and scientists, but there are certainly a lot more of those so the goal is more realistic than becoming a multimillionaire football star or rapper. Those careers don't make as much money and don't have much prestige, but they're solid careers that lead to comfortable living.

Put a lot of black scientists and professionals on TV and in movies, a disproportionately high amount, maybe it'll change perceptions about what black kids should be striving for in life. Right now the most famous black people are sports athletes, rappers, and other media stars, not exactly viable career options for 99.99999999999% of people.

Yes this won't solve all the problems that exist, but a serious effort to change the portrayal of blacks in the media is important to changing the perceptions of black children.

 

[The Incarnation]

It's fine if the path to money they worship makes sense.
Not everyone can be a rapper or sports superstar. There needs to be a shift towards role models in more plentiful professions.

Well once people's Fathers start working in these more respectable professions then maybe their kids will look up to them. If they're not around or on drugs then there's very little that can be done.

Family and work are two of the main foundations of a functioning society.

Put a lot of black scientists and professionals on TV and in movies, a disproportionately high amount, maybe it'll change perceptions about what black kids should be striving for in life. Right now the most famous black people are sports athletes, rappers, and other media stars, not exactly viable career options for 99.99999999999% of people.

They're only famous because that's what people put value in, otherwise they'd just be like everyone else.

 

[SmokyDave]

Well once people's Fathers start working in these more respectable professions then maybe their kids will look up to them. If they're not around or on drugs then there's very little that can be done.

Family and work are two of the main foundations of a functioning society.

Hell, they don't even need to be 'respectable' professions, as such. My Dad worked a shit job and got mad respect from me because I knew he didn't want to work such a shit job but he had hungry mouths to feed. Just a present father with a solid work ethic can make a tremendous difference in life.

 

[Blackace]

Well once people's Fathers start working in these more respectable professions then maybe their kids will look up to them. If they're not around or on drugs then there's very little that can be done.

Family and work are two of the main foundations of a functioning society.

And I tell you that a lot of gang bangers or drug dealers start out looking for that decent job but have no real chance at getting it... A lot put out a bit of an effort. Even a half way decent union cashiers job can be hard to get...

 

[Half and half]

C'mon, black folks. We know better than to take the bait on this weak sauce troll thread!

OP was way obvious.

 

[Blackace]

C'mon, black folks. We know better than to take the bait on this weak sauce troll thread!

OP was way obvious.

? So we aren't behind? Problem solved!

 

[akira28]

whyareblacksstillatverybottom/crazyexgfstuff

Anyone can have an opinion, just don't expect the really insensitive ones to be taken very seriously by everyone. Your tone implies that you feel obligated to share these statements with us. But when the root of your message is that black people should just forget centuries of active suppression, and if it affected them negatively, it was because they allowed it to? I'm sure they allowed those people not to give them jobs or sell them homes as recentlt as 20 years ago. And when evidence of systematic discrimination is still found, for those people unaware of why they didn't even get an interview, let alone a job; I'm sure if they knew, they'd still allow it to affect them. They want to be victims after all. If all one has to do for economic equality is say "I'm taking responsibility for myself. I won't let the past hold me back.", great. All the good intent in the world still can't prevent a broken back. But I admire your optimism, good luck, and try and get a head start, running from that invisible hand.


Immigrant groups trend towards being insular, they also deliberately keep their resources within the community to help elevate members into business and home ownership. They help each other within their community, to make that community stronger, and often maintain strong supportive ties with their homelands.

Immigrant groups generally aren't trolled(latino exception), and don't have a historical stigma tied to them like black communities do, but there are some similarities. (Brown ppl steal our jerbs, black ppl steal our women, tvs, manhood) Black communities used to excel at the above things mentioned, community chests and the like, back when they were only allowed to live in small insular circles anyway. It doesn't happen as much, there used to be mens groups and church groups that the communities centered around but that infrastructure didn't seem to make it past the 80s-90s. A jackass might(and has) blame social services for this, but I'd blame the Drug War, the stalled economy, and its subsequent assault on black America and resulting breakup of the black family. Drug war never stopped, and only half the Clinton presidency had the economy looking up.

Today all Americans are expected to stand on their own. Communities are broken up. Neighbors don't even speak to each other. Everyone works their job, makes their pay, and goes home. That's modern life. Very few people do it like their grandfathers did. But some communities are more affected by that lack than others. Especially when it made up for what those communities were prevented from having in the first place.

 

[Dead Man]

Dave and Deadman:

Aside from lampooning that one person, there have been a few solutions referenced. The question is will anyone do any of the things proposed, and at which level?


I say that the world that people live in has to change first. Counties, cities and towns, communities, to meet the aspirations of the people within them. The climate for improvement will be there, the negative environment challenged at multiple levels. Social progams need to stop being the first things on the chopping block, let them do what they're designed to do, and you'll see that change.


It can start with the individuals, acting for their individual selves. You can break it down to the personal level, and move on up and outward. It CAN start at home, but the entirety of the group trying to solve the problem doesn't have to stop there. But self hatred and personal responsibility can be addressed. Headstart programs are proven to help, but when kids grow older and age out of those programs, they no longer have that support and it shows in the statistics. Children after school go home and have the TV to keep them company, or they stay out to socialize with their peers and there's a serious lack of guidance there as well. It's not like people have no ideas on what to do. It's not like the will is lacking in the community. Support is lacking, though, both from those who need help, and those who could do the helping.

Yeah, I guess I got side tracked by the angst too. Thanks for the post to point that out. I like what you have said here. Communities may be a group of individuals, but it IS very hard for individuals to have an effect that they can see or deem worthwhile. Support needs to come from higher levels too.

It's not about changing the past. It's about recognising the past and realising what effect that has on the present.


I know, I guess I just want people to ignore the bootstrap stuff and keep posting because there's so much else to learn / discuss on this subject. I can understand why that isn't easy though, the posts come in waves like a fucked up Space Invaders machine.

Bloody right. To both.

Re-adding my opinion to the mix, I think exposure is the key. Exposing kids at a younger age to the world outside of the communities they live in, and introducing them to opportunities that instill the belief that there is more out there and that they can achieve more than what they know. It seems crazy but a lot of black kids truly don't know that there is more out there to be had.

More funding for after-school programs and more hands-on, in-class learning. It's really hard to develop an appreciation for learning in children when you have teachers who've given up hope (*cough*) teaching to a test, deferring most of their job to lengthy homework assignments, and not being interactive. Though I guess this is more of a general idea. When I was in school it was always the teachers who genuinely seemed to care about their students who got the most respect. Inner-city schools need to stop being a dumping ground for the unqualified who don't give a fuck.

As far as what the community can do for itself...a few people touched on it much earlier in the thread, but black people need to ease up on segregating ourselves. I never really considered it, but a lot of black kids really don't feel like they can look up to people who aren't black. Sticking to our own was beneficial during the years immediately following slavery, but now I feel that the mentality heavily contributes to the subconscious idea that blacks aren't a part of the world at large. Almost like we're not allowed to be.

Good post too. I never thought about the segregation of role models in those terms, it does pose an interesting problem. Obviously you want kids to see a variety of successful people of their own ethnicity to look up to and emulate, but there is also nothing wrong with finding a person of another ace admirable.

 

[Capitan Futuro]

Well, first off we need to close the intelligence gap. I think this could be done by some kind of unconditional affirmitive action that will allow disadvantaged black children in any facility regardless of former achievements. In fact they should be prefered over other children as some kind of rescue plan. Only this way this gap can be closed and from there on the rest will fall into its place. They'll gain higher social status which allows for more stable families and better educational opportunities for their children. That's the only way.

 

[Busty]

I stayed well away from this thread expecting a cluster fuck of unparalleled proportions.

But I have to admit it actually looks interesting. I'll have a gander at it later on.

 

[samus i am]

I stayed well away from this thread expecting a cluster fuck of unparalleled proportions.

But I have to admit it actually looks interesting. I'll have a gander at it later on.

No no no no nono. Save yourself, stay away!

 

[reggie]

Another question. Lets say for a moment everyone agreed that slavery was the main cause, what does this suddenly change that makes it any different? While the people downplaying slavery may be wrong, does it really matter what they believe, and if so, how?

 

[JGS]

Another question. Lets say for a moment everyone agreed that slavery was the main cause, what does this suddenly change that makes it any different? While the people downplaying slavery may be wrong, does it really matter what they believe, and if so, how?

Slavery would have to be the main cause even if it's not the current cause, but it doesn't matter unless reparations are expected then it probably does some good.

 

[Blackace]

Another question. Lets say for a moment everyone agreed that slavery was the main cause, what does this suddenly change that makes it any different? While the people downplaying slavery may be wrong, does it really matter what they believe, and if so, how?

Things like AA for schooling or grants start to become in danger if people really believe to paying field anywhere near equal...

 

[Bleepey]

Black people need a hyper influence. Basically one of the following:

1.) Ridiculously rich black man. Say, top 5 richest men. He gives some iconic interview on the state of black men and black culture. Puts money out there to crush the problems.

2.) MLK redeux. Some charismatic influential speaker does a series of events and gives a memorable speech on what black people need to do to get better.

3.) Introduction of a new rapper. Ideally a graduate from a top 10 school. With a masters, and all that good stuff. Has awesome rap, awesome music. Becomes out of the best musicians/celebrities of all time and incorporates educational shat in his rap.

etc.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/20/cambridge-university-franklyn-addo-rap

J Cole got great grades summa cum laude or something like that

Oh and this guy even has some street cred /sarcasm

 

[JGS]

1.) Ridiculously rich black man. Say, top 5 richest men. He gives some iconic interview on the state of black men and black culture. Puts money out there to crush the problems.

Not sure how that one would work.

 

[Dead Man]

Things like AA for schooling or grants start to become in danger if people really believe to paying field anywhere near equal...

I don't think (hope, I guess) that just because someone thinks there are no direct effects of slavery that the playing field is even. I don't believe one follows from the other. People may believe both, but I don't think that is anything that will change no matter what you do.

 

[Captain Sparrow]

Re-adding my opinion to the mix, I think exposure is the key. Exposing kids at a younger age to the world outside of the communities they live in, and introducing them to opportunities that instill the belief that there is more out there and that they can achieve more than what they know. It seems crazy but a lot of black kids truly don't know that there is more out there to be had.

More funding for after-school programs and more hands-on, in-class learning. It's really hard to develop an appreciation for learning in children when you have teachers who've given up hope (*cough*) teaching to a test, deferring most of their job to lengthy homework assignments, and not being interactive. Though I guess this is more of a general idea. When I was in school it was always the teachers who genuinely seemed to care about their students who got the most respect. Inner-city schools need to stop being a dumping ground for the unqualified who don't give a fuck.

As far as what the community can do for itself...a few people touched on it much earlier in the thread, but black people need to ease up on segregating ourselves. I never really considered it, but a lot of black kids really don't feel like they can look up to people who aren't black. Sticking to our own was beneficial during the years immediately following slavery, but now I feel that the mentality heavily contributes to the subconscious idea that blacks aren't a part of the world at large. Almost like we're not allowed to be.

I agree with pretty much everything that was said here.

But instead of looking at inner-city schools as a "dumping ground", do you think teachers would prefer to work there? You'll find that they generally have a lot of newer teachers because they are desperate to get their feet wet and start their career. It is a stressful job.

Combine that with the fact that our governments are all broke, and that inner cities aren't the most profitable either, this is a hard one to fix.

 

[samus i am]

I don't see rap music as an issue at all. It is all just there for entertainment. I was born in 83 so I pretty much grew up with "gangster" rap. It is similar to trying to blame violent video games or violent movies. If you are impressionable enough to start selling drugs because lil wayne mentioned it in a song, you probably didn't have a bright future to begin with.

 

[Blackace]

I don't think (hope, I guess) that just because someone thinks there are no direct effects of slavery that the playing field is even. I don't believe one follows from the other. People may believe both, but I don't think that is anything that will change no matter what you do.

But if there were no direct effects then why is the playing field uneven?

 

[Dead Man]

But if there were no direct effects then why is the playing field uneven?

Historical effects, and plenty of other shit that is not directly a result of slavery, but a result of the same thing that caused slavery to be acceptable: racism in general.

I feel some people are overstating the effect of slavery and missing other things that were not caused by slavery, but had the same root. Slavery was an effect as much as a cause.

Edit: For instance, I think it is more useful to talk about studies like the one that found it was harder for black sounding names to get interviews. Direct issues that demonstrate an uneven field and continuing missed opportunities.

 

[Blackace]

Historical effects, and plenty of other shit that is not directly a result of slavery, but a result of the same thing that caused slavery to be acceptable: racism in general.

I feel some people are overstating the effect of slavery and missing other things that were not caused by slavery, but had the same root. Slavery was an effect as much as a cause.

I don't believe that in the history of the United States it is possible to overstate the effects of slavery. It isnt possible...

 

[speedline]

I don't see rap music as an issue at all. It is all just there for entertainment. I was born in 83 so I pretty much grew up with "gangster" rap. It is similar to trying to blame violent video games or violent movies. If you are impressionable enough to start selling drugs because lil wayne mentioned it in a song, you probably didn't have a bright future to begin with.

I would generally agree with you on that, but after seeing countless numbers of people quoting and imitating Tupac over and over, there is much more to it than simply entertainment. He is lifted up as almost God-like. Hip Hop is like a religion to a lot of people, persuading everything from how women are viewed, celebrating drugs and a thug mentality to political alignment. It's way more than purely entertainment, it's a lifestyle and a destructive one at that.