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Black people can't be racist?
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vas_a_morir
Banned
The 'so well spoken' thing is actually something I understand. It is subtly insulting and mildly infuriating. I get it all the time because of my background and it is always telling IMO.
PhantomHound
Banned
So you're saying there's no "white hive mind" perception?
This is actually exactly what I'm saying.
But! The solution isn't "well let's all just pretend everyone's the same and everything's copacetic then". That'd be bullshit. Our society isn't post-racial. Maybe one day, but not yet. I don't believe in race because race isn't real. However, racism and oppression are real and do matter, so I recognize and try very hard to correct for them.
I didn't say that. I'm actually very interested as to where you're going with this. Not another "technically everyone experiences this and that" argument, I hope. Unless that's where it should go. I'm too stupid for all this.
RoninChaos
Member
That's a pretty shitty defense on her part. Hope you called her out. Cause that's some ignorant shit.
Incandenza
Banned
Precisely what I was going to say. Structural racism does not really exist towards whites in the Western world but racial prejudice does.
Hypemaster
Member
What the hell are you talking about? Please read what you just posted.
White people can't jump/dance is the equivalent of black people can't swim or Asian's are good at math. That's not comparable to a black person calling someone a nerdy white boy. The equivalent is nerdy black boy.
I'm sorry, but you cannot compare blacks being racist (or any minority for that matter) to whites. It doesn't work that way. In no way have white people been oppressed, but minorities have by whites.
What you've said is more like minimizing the effects of racism and slavery on the black community by trying to make the issues equivalent.
soul creator
Member
I'm starting to think that this is the racial version of The Great Agnostic vs. Atheist debate
shit ultimately comes down to definitions
gutter_trash
Banned
black people can be racist.
Rwandan Genocide: Hutu hating on Tutsi so on and on
Rwandan Genocide: Hutu hating on Tutsi so on and on
Yeah dude, keep coming up with backwards ass logic to defend hating or believing you're better than someone else because they share a different skin color to the one you're wrapped in. Anyone can be racist. Being on the shorter end of the stick throughout history isn't a fucking fee pass.
Vermillion
Banned
There's no other way to do it, friend. Race is largely a social construct, yes, but that doesn't make it any less real. If you're going to bring attention to the injustices that minorities face, you need to point out that these things are happening with specific groups. Otherwise you're left with a situation where people assume racism is over just because they don't talk about it anymore.
Race is real because it has been made real. Not talking about it will solve nothing. You'll be further from understanding, if anything.
PhantomHound
Banned
No group faces the same challenges as another. It would be dishonest and wrong for me to say that, "White people face the same challenges as black people." Obviously, black people face more injustice in American society.
However, the comment I was trying to fight against originated with, "Why does 1 black person = all black people said that." I was arguing that this "hive mind" mentality applies to all groups of people. It applies to white people, asian people, hispanic people, indians, british, french, german, japanese, chinese, korean, whatever.
I know that it doesn't equate perfectly. But unfortunately, in our society, people will continue to judge people based on the actions of the few and not the actions of the many. A few pro gun nuts are carrying assault rifles in public right now = all pro gun people want to wield assault rifles in public... and that's not true.
Furthermore, I'm too stupid for this... I want to be 5 again.
Nonsense. You originally asked why does 1 black person equate to being all black people said this. I said that this implies to others but in no way is it an equal representation of race.
I'm not minimizing the effects of racism and slavery.
Deified Data
Banned
Is your friend Tumblr, OP?
old
Member
"I can't disprove what they said so here's my feeble attempt to dismiss it."
Angelus Errare
Banned
If the white hivemind assumption operated at the same level and rate as black hivemind, guns would have been banned a long time ago because all white people love shooting up schools and shit when a girl breaks their heart. (As I roll my eyes).
Let's not act like they're at all comparable given the media and position of power relative to each group.
Back to the example of school/mass shootings. Every time they occur no one on Fox or CNN makes sweeping statements about white people or "white culture" they chalk it up to mental illness, family issues, school life, etc. Generally the narrative is that it's an individual issue and not a societal/white cultural issue.
Now flip the news to anything pertaining blacks and the suggestions aren't nearly as individualistic. It's usually a bunch of people who have probably never met a black person making shit points about black culture, the music indoctrinating all of us, the hand outs, welfare queens, and all kinds of hilariously obvious dog whistles that the rest of America never notices. Shit look at how demonized Trayvon Martin was because he had Facebook pictures of him flippin the bird. News reporters the country over suggesting he was a thug because of black culture, because of music, etc. For black people, the "problem" always pertains to something in the culture, music, or something that we apparently all had a collective hand in doing. Never a mental illness, never something individualistic. Shit is wack as fuck hearing 24/7.
I mean really just look at media treatment of Obama versus any other President ever. Obama fistbumped Michelle when he won? Cue Fox asking if it was some urban thing, a sign or something, then calling Michelle his "baby mama". Fuck outta here.
Please stop the "us too" shit, it's so played out.
PhantomHound
Banned
This has nothing to do with my point.
Where did you get the idea that I believe that using "white boy" or "nerdy" to describe someone was inherently derogatory?
Unless you're saying that some descriptors can never be used as slurs, regardless of intent, what reason do you have to say that I'm, "South of Smart?"
The problem stems not from the academic repurposing of the word "racism" for usage in their writings and critiques on race relations. There's plenty of good reasons to have a more nuanced vocabulary when discussing discrimination at this sort of academic level because precision is very important. That doesn't mean it's automatically correct, though.
The problem stems from the pseudo-intelligent jackasses on the internet adopting the new definition of word as a settled fact and the only acceptable definition, as sure as 2+2=4, and then flinging said definition about as some mark of intelligence in discussions on race as a means of one-upping anyone who either 1) isn't versed in usage of the word in CRT, et. al. or 2) rejects the relevancy of the definition.
tl;dr -- bloggers suck.
The only problem though is that if you base racism on power dynamics then you would eventually have to come to the conclusion that no one can be racist since we are all just a flow of particles controlled by the origins of the universe. People can only have relative power over others, and black people are in possession of relative power in some situations just the same as white people.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Your point is white people are subjected to the "hivemind" mindset too; you're not at anywhere near the same rate as black people because white people are the majority so other white people are never going to assume what one white person does represents all of them. They're not going to suggest that a white person's problem is because there is something wrong in the white culture. Of course they're not because they would also be saying that the culture they're part of is fucked up and that they are the same as this random white person elsewhere.
Again, the "us too" shit is a stupid argument.
Black-Wind
Member
They're saying that racism = the belief that (after subscribing to the social construct that is the idea of "race") one race is greater or less than another race.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Black people most certainly can be.
BUT.
I've never met an actual black person that believed that their black skin or ethnic background made them superior to or otherwise better than someone of fair skin. That's what racism is, after all: A belief that there is a difference between races and that your race is superior, supported by actions designed to oppress, suppress, or otherwise limit those of the "inferior" races. That is racism. And no, "Black supremacy" isn't a common modus operandi in our communities. We generally don't walk around under a belief that we're *better than* anyone else. We've been looking for equality for 400+ fucking years; give us at least another 100 before we start feeling better than.
It's very possible for black folk to be bigoted or prejudiced, but racist...that's very rare. The only groups I think I've ever heard of that are black supremacists (per se) are some really weird religious groups. Maybe some in the Nation of Islam (are they still around?), maybe some in the 5 percent nation and similar extremely radical, extremely small groups.
So yes, it's possible but highly unusual. I hope people have a functioning, working, PROPER definition of what (a) racism, (b) bigotry, and (c) prejudiced are. There is some overlap, but there are some things that make each very unique and identifiable. As a socially-conscious black man, I'm perhaps more versed on these matters than some, but I expect all who would seek to participate in such a discussion at least absorb and internalize the definitions and go from there.
BUT.
I've never met an actual black person that believed that their black skin or ethnic background made them superior to or otherwise better than someone of fair skin. That's what racism is, after all: A belief that there is a difference between races and that your race is superior, supported by actions designed to oppress, suppress, or otherwise limit those of the "inferior" races. That is racism. And no, "Black supremacy" isn't a common modus operandi in our communities. We generally don't walk around under a belief that we're *better than* anyone else. We've been looking for equality for 400+ fucking years; give us at least another 100 before we start feeling better than.
It's very possible for black folk to be bigoted or prejudiced, but racist...that's very rare. The only groups I think I've ever heard of that are black supremacists (per se) are some really weird religious groups. Maybe some in the Nation of Islam (are they still around?), maybe some in the 5 percent nation and similar extremely radical, extremely small groups.
So yes, it's possible but highly unusual. I hope people have a functioning, working, PROPER definition of what (a) racism, (b) bigotry, and (c) prejudiced are. There is some overlap, but there are some things that make each very unique and identifiable. As a socially-conscious black man, I'm perhaps more versed on these matters than some, but I expect all who would seek to participate in such a discussion at least absorb and internalize the definitions and go from there.
God Dayumm
Banned
Any minority can be racist. I hope no one uses that as an excuse to be racist themselves or apathetic to their struggles
OP, black people can be racist. As an African I've heard some nasty shit said about Indians and the Chinese, and where I'm from, Bostwana, we even have derogatory term's for them and also for white people, though the term for white people is usually used out of ignorance rather than spite, since most people don't know any white people, they only see them on TV or when crossing the border into South Africa.
The derogatory terms for Indians and the Chinese however, ARE used out of spite. People REALLY aren't happy that so many businesses and shops that spring up are being run by either the Indians or the Chinese.
Yes it is, you should hear some of the nasty shit many southern Africans have to say about Nigerians.
The derogatory terms for Indians and the Chinese however, ARE used out of spite. People REALLY aren't happy that so many businesses and shops that spring up are being run by either the Indians or the Chinese.
Yes it is, you should hear some of the nasty shit many southern Africans have to say about Nigerians.
Dreams-Visions
Member
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/black-in-latin-america/
http://www.npr.org/2011/07/27/138601410/what-it-means-to-be-black-in-latin-america
Yes. In large part thanks to some power systems whites implemented in the days of colonization and slavery.
black people can be racist.
Rwandan Genocide: Hutu hating on Tutsi so on and on
That falls under tribalism not racism. Hutus and Tutsis are the same race.
soul creator
Member
shout out to the Gods doing the knowledge and trying to teach the young black youth about the Yacubian devils and their recessive traits
lol
Racism in modern American vocabulary has a far more encompassing definition, which renders the "proper" definition limiting the term to merely "belief that X > Y".
You expect people to internalize and absorb the differences in the three words. Why? It's your opinion that it's important, which is fine, but it's not some universal truth that it matters. I expect no such thing, and quite frankly, find the semantics involved in trying to say "well they can be prejudice or bigoted but not racist" to be tedious, distracting bullshit.
That in itself is interesting, as others have pointed out with the "thuggish" comment. Common white stereotypes seem to be a bit less... "damning" than minority ones. And yet still somehow treated near equally inflammatory. (I could just be imagining that) You do have the "redneck" stuff which is admittedly still highly offensive, but Jeff Foxworthy and the other apostles have been trying to take the word and culture back. Good on them.
Black-Wind
Member
Someone says "Nerdy X boy".
You decided to take that as a racist slur and call them out on it.
Leads me to believe that you assume some part of that comment is racist ...
After looking at this I come to the conclusion that you don't fully understand the meaning of the word and reading your friends logic leads me to that same stance with their understanding of the word.
Using an adjective isn't racist by it's self.
PhantomHound
Banned
I said it can be applied to other groups but it's not equal at all... I was literally just describing stereotyping. Not making a case that white people face the same injustice as black people.
Aren't you derailing the thread a little? OP's issue was with his friend saying that it's not possible for black people to be racist. Which is a flat out wrong and an idiotic thing to say.
Dreams-Visions
Member
And in my world (one where all of these things are daily realities), suggesting the difference between bigotry, prejudice and racism to be trivial is akin to suggesting the difference between a car, a boat, and a plane is trivial. Sure, they all get you where you want to go, require engines, can hold multiple passengers, etc. But anyone who'd spend any time on these matters would see that there are also places where they *do not* overlap and would consequently want to make sure they're using the proper terms to discuss the proper things in conversation.
So as to not look like an idiot.
They are not the same thing. If people have been lazy conflating all of the terms together, perhaps some cleaning is in order, rather than placating to the ignorance of the masses. Feel free to disagree. I'm all about educating. That's just my style. Also, this is a side-conversation at best, missing the forest for the trees.
The bottom line here is that it's possible for blacks to be racist. It's just not all that likely. Far more likely will one find blacks being bigoted or prejudiced...and often due to lack of exposure to _____ (pick an ethnic group) and subsequent stereotyping. Also secondary to fear of not being seen as good enough. But actually believing that your black skin makes you BETTER THAN someone of fair skin? Not very often, friends.
I won't lie. I believe my brown skin makes me superior when standing out in the sun. I can go a whole day on the beach and never get sunburn. ggwp. lol
I'll check back in on this thread later and see if conversation has improved in quality.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Black-Wind
Member
EatinOlives
Member
Your friend is stupid, OP. Anybody can be racist. I don't think "nerdy white boy" is racist, though.
Maybe I have an overly simplistic view on what racism is, but to me racism isn't only about a genuine belief that one race is inherently better than the other. To me, racism is having a particular attitude toward a person of a different race than yours differently just because of their race. This can come out of many different attitudes, and some of those attitudes aren't ones of simple superiority, but simply the primitive human notion of not liking things (in this case people) that aren't what you're used to.
Let's take, for instance, a suburban mom. She's off somewhere on a Saturday night for whatever reason, got lost finding another mom's house to pick up her kids from a birthday party or something. She ends up in a part of town she's unfamiliar and it doesn't at all look run down, but it's in an industrial districts with warehouses and shit. Basically, not high-end office districts or other upper middle class neighborhoods. She stops at a red light and spots a black man in his 40s wearing a jacket and baseball cap and sitting alone at a bus stop. Her heart races and she double checks to make sure her doors are locked. She's legitimately afraid that the man will pull out a gun and rob her.
That's being racist. She doesn't genuinely think "white" is inherently superior, but she has a stereotype in her mind that most criminals are black people and feeds into that stereotype by being genuinely afraid. Again, nothing to do with racial superiority, but she has a legitimate belief that this man is likely a criminal, simply because it's in a not-wealthy neighborhood and this black man is just sitting there in a bus stop.
Maybe I have an overly simplistic view on what racism is, but to me racism isn't only about a genuine belief that one race is inherently better than the other. To me, racism is having a particular attitude toward a person of a different race than yours differently just because of their race. This can come out of many different attitudes, and some of those attitudes aren't ones of simple superiority, but simply the primitive human notion of not liking things (in this case people) that aren't what you're used to.
Let's take, for instance, a suburban mom. She's off somewhere on a Saturday night for whatever reason, got lost finding another mom's house to pick up her kids from a birthday party or something. She ends up in a part of town she's unfamiliar and it doesn't at all look run down, but it's in an industrial districts with warehouses and shit. Basically, not high-end office districts or other upper middle class neighborhoods. She stops at a red light and spots a black man in his 40s wearing a jacket and baseball cap and sitting alone at a bus stop. Her heart races and she double checks to make sure her doors are locked. She's legitimately afraid that the man will pull out a gun and rob her.
That's being racist. She doesn't genuinely think "white" is inherently superior, but she has a stereotype in her mind that most criminals are black people and feeds into that stereotype by being genuinely afraid. Again, nothing to do with racial superiority, but she has a legitimate belief that this man is likely a criminal, simply because it's in a not-wealthy neighborhood and this black man is just sitting there in a bus stop.
In someone's (possible no one's) defense, I have heard the phrase "nerdy white boy" used in an intended-to-be derogatory manner. Though it's strange. Really, what's wrong with being nerdy, white, and a boy? That's almost a guarantee for the eventual attainment of money and power. Bill Gates. Steve Jobs. Most CEOs. Okay maybe not nerdy, but there's something in their heads doing calculations and planning.
Stupid people say stupid things, in belief of stupid things. I'm from a low-income, multiracial area, and yes, I myself have been insulted for speaking proper English or wearing jeans that fit. There are ignorant people who think that being black, white, Asian, etc. means you're supposed to adhere to stupid, racist behaviors and appearances. Don't listen to them. Don't be one of them by assuming they represent everyone.
Stupid people say stupid things, in belief of stupid things. I'm from a low-income, multiracial area, and yes, I myself have been insulted for speaking proper English or wearing jeans that fit. There are ignorant people who think that being black, white, Asian, etc. means you're supposed to adhere to stupid, racist behaviors and appearances. Don't listen to them. Don't be one of them by assuming they represent everyone.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Minorties don't have the privilege to be thought of as individuals (in the context of our opinions, history, and actions) because...we're minorities...we don't make the rules.
Also some white/straight/cis people don't always have to deal with us on a daily basis so they never get to seriously know us as individuals and they just assume that we're a stereotypical hive-mind. It doesn't help that we're usually depicted with the same old tropes (Ex: Angry jive talkin' black man, loud effeminate promiscuous gay boy) in every form of media ever.
One guy isn't every guy, but racism is in general more threatening if you're of a minority.
fair enough. In my experience, though, "white boy" is not exactly a term of endearment though, although I am not a mind reader and wouldn't jump to assumptions about people's intent.
If you're asking if black people can be hateful or intolerant of another race, then yes. I think every race has that ability. My last boss (a white woman married to a black guy) once described something similar to me as "reverse racism." I think it's just regular old racism.
Just the other weekend, my wife and kids were crossing a street to meet up with me when two black guys drove by and yelled "You fucking white crackers!" at them. I'm pretty much of the Louie C.K. philosophy as far as that's concerned, but do you really yell that at a nine year old girl? Every race has their idiots.
Just the other weekend, my wife and kids were crossing a street to meet up with me when two black guys drove by and yelled "You fucking white crackers!" at them. I'm pretty much of the Louie C.K. philosophy as far as that's concerned, but do you really yell that at a nine year old girl? Every race has their idiots.
I know this person, and I know the kind of of jokes she makes. That's how it was meant to be a racist joke. However, she believes that it's okay because no matter what she says, nobody can be racist towards white people. That lead me to make this thread to see if posters on GAF shared her opinions or knew someone that did.
It isn't like I go on a crusade against anyone who dares to describe a boy who happens to be white as a "white boy."
I think it should be clear that people use "nerdy" in a derogatory manner quite a bit (mostly in a high school or middle school environment). However, it can also be used in a positive manner.
If you think I'm incorrect in using "racist" instead of "prejudiced" or some other word,then, say that and explain why I was wrong. If I realize that I was wrong, then, I just apologize and go on about my day. There's no need to question my intelligence.
Exactly. That's why I said it's about intent.
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