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[injurai]

In making it a pure "merit" role, you then limit people who don't have the resources to compete to get these roles, especially if major actors are vying for it (of which only few actually are in the LGBT community). As such, not seeking out LGBT actors for these roles serves as gatekeeping, where LGBT can't get these big roles because they don't get these big roles.

How is that gate keeping? Having open doors for actors to audition is not gatekeeping. If they aren't getting roles because they aren't big names, then maybe they should start small and built up practice working in a professional environment, flexing their range of voice and acting.

Actively seeking out people to fill a quota and ignoring the creative and professional process is in fact gatekeeping.

 

[Iscariot]

Sorry I don't buy that. How can you prove, or disprove, unconscious bios?
Even if it is true for some, it can't be claimed that everyone hiring does that?

Through lots of testing. You can google some online self applied ones. Stanford iirc created one.

 

[big_erk]

So if both a black person and a white person audition for a black character voice acting role, but the white voice actor delivers a better performance, should the role still go to the black voice actor just because he's black? And vice versa.

I say no. Let whoever delivered the better performance do the job, regardless of skin color.

I agree with what you are saying in principal, however there are plenty of quality black voice actors out there to fill most role for characters of color. Now in this case it sounds like the actress in question took the time to work out the accent and dialect which made her the correct choice for the role.

I just know that if I were casting a game I would want white actors for the white characters, black actors for the black parts, latino actors for the latino roles etc. Unless someone came in and blew me away with their audition.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Okay? We know there's a problem, there's nothing wrong with highlighting positive examples like Garcian Smith.

isn't that a black actor voicing a black character? I never said there was anything wrong with talking about that lol. My problem is 'but phil lamarr' nonsense. It's just something people use to prop up the silly notion that there is no bias and by extension, no institutional racism.

 

[KiraXD]

Europeans and Austrailians shouldnt voice americans... they take away legitimate roles to people who DONT have accents. its an outrage in the voice acting community. you HAVE to have a person who EXACTLY represents the person theyre voicing. Otherwise... you force people out of a job, and they resort to crack... think of all that crack.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I agree with what you are saying in principal, however there are plenty of quality black voice actors out there to fill most role for characters of color. Now in this case it sounds like the actress in question took the time to work out the accent and dialect which made her the correct choice for the role.

I just know that if I were casting a game I would want white actors for the white characters, black actors for the black parts, latino actors for the latino roles etc. Unless someone came in and blew me away with their audition.

This is a very good way to make sure white people almost always come out with the leading roles in the current industry

 

[Tovarisc]

again, for probably the billionth time on gaf this month, unconscious bias leads those doing the hiring to think those who look like them to be the better person for the job, even if they aren't.

Yet idea of blind auditioning that Neiteio threw out there doesn't seem to get a lot love. Even if it was to prove racism and/or bias it also would somewhat remove those from equation of VA casting, no?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Given the bolded, you don't have a problem with actors of different backgrounds playing a role as long as they know their shit?

Your position is simply assuming that (the majority of) straight actors are less adaptable to accurate LGBT roles than (the majority of) LGBT actors are to accurate straight roles based on their respective places in our society, no? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but that seems to be what you're saying.

I'm saying that only one of the two groups being discussed is a marginalized, hated, misunderstood group that is noted for having poor representation in media often.

How is that gate keeping? Having open doors for actors to audition is not gatekeeping. If they aren't getting roles because they aren't big names, then maybe they should start small and built up practice working in a professional environment, flexing their range of voice and acting.

Actively seeking out people to fill a quota and ignoring the creative and professional process is in fact gatekeeping.

That's the most backwards logic I've ever seen. Firstly, remember that only one of us ever said the word quota. Secondly, gatekeeping refers to exclusionary behaviour, and the closest thing to exclusionary it would be is to limit the most privileged race of actors only very slightly.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Sorry I don't buy that. How can you prove, or disprove, unconscious bios?
Even if it is true for some, it can't be claimed that everyone hiring does that?

You don't have to buy it, just like you don't have to buy that the earth is round, which is apparently a thing. A little bit of looking into the matter might be in order though.

 

[Reebot]

I have. Hetero actors have a worse perspective than LGBT actors when doing LGBT roles, generally. Thus, qualified LGBT actors should be given preference for these roles.

Also, that's not true at all. A lot of LGBT people have much of their entire lives where they played straight and/or cis, day-in and day-out. Furthermore, straight people aren't in a weird place in society like LGBT people are, and thus straight people don't need explaining and generally aren't the victims of constant stereotyping/misunderstanding.

Well, again, obviously a "qualified LGBT" actor should get the role. I'm not disputing that; no one would.

Interesting point about LGBT people generally acting straight. I still think you're missing a few steps in the logical chain though. The fundamental, and still unaddressed, issue is acting's innate nature; people pretend to be things they aren't. I am, however, completely writing off your last sentence as being plain wrong. Straight people, while not discriminated or stereotyped, do "need explaining," as all humans do.

You'd have more success arguing the first point, that by simply living in a majority straight world LGBT people gain experience playing straight. But you've got to stop qualifying your answers or change the hypothetical facts: we're assuming the competency of the actors. And, all else equal, I don't think LGBT roles should go to LGBT actors by necessity.

 

[Famassu]

And who cares?

If it's okay for a Black woman to play Hermonie in Harry Potter play it's okay for a white girl to voice a black woman.

Isn't voicing this as a concern just as bad as saying a black person can't voice a white character?

Can't you people read even A LITTLE BIT of these threads before writing the same tired crap? No one is saying that a white person should never ever voice a black character. It's more of an issue when even the relatively few black characters are given to white voice actors too often without possibly even giving a chance to people who actually represent the ethnicity/minority of the character to get that role while black people don't possibly get similar opportunities voicing white characters or any roles for that matter.

It's about the BIGGER PICTURE, not a single role like this one from Uncharted 4. This is just a symptom of a larger issue. There's nothing hugely wrong with this single casting choice per se, but it's still something worth discussing in the larger context of "are black people not given equal opportunities to apply to these roles and if there are no black people applying to these roles, why is that?" There are often some social issues behind such lack of representation by particular groups in certain professions (like the lack of women in large parts of the game industry & engineering as well) and those are absolutely worth keeping in mind and bringing them up whenever it happens, even if the Laura Baileys of the world aren't personally & directly responsible for such things happening and can do an excellent performance at the job.

 

[neerg]

Through lots of testing. You can google some online self applied ones. Stanford iirc created one.

Sure you can prove trends, but you still can't claim that an indidual appointment was down to this?
It's certainly a thought provoking subject. In my role as a software development manager I have to interview for new developers, and I like to think I choose based on talent and fit for the role. I would like to give others the benefit of the doubt that they do the same but that is probably naive of me. However, should that affect how I employ people? If the answer is no, then you also have to give others the benefit of the doubt also.

You don't have to buy it, just like you don't have to buy that the earth is round, which is apparently a thing. A little bit of looking into the matter might be in order though.

I agree it happens, but as per the above, I disagree that everyone is guilty of it. How do we resolve the problem in some areas is the problem. I like the idea of blind casting suggested earlier in this current threads example,

 

[hawk2025]

I agree with what you are saying in principal, however there are plenty of quality black voice actors out there to fill most role for characters of color. Now in this case it sounds like the actress in question took the time to work out the accent and dialect which made her the correct choice for the role.

I just know that if I were casting a game I would want white actors for the white characters, black actors for the black parts, latino actors for the latino roles etc. Unless someone came in and blew me away with their audition.

If there's discrimination at the game design level or if there is a supply problem for minority voice actors, as a casting director you've just created an incentive for the writers to create even less well-written minorities.

Sure you can prove trends, but you still can't claim that an indidual appointment was down to this?
It's certainly a thought provoking subject. In my role as a software development manager I have to interview for new developers, and I like to think I choose based on talent and fit for the role. I would like to give others the benefit of the doubt that they do the same but that is probably naive of me. However, should that affect how I employ people? If the answer is no, then you also have to give others the benefit of the doubt also.

The best way to combat your own unconscious and conscious bias is to be aware of it. I'd strongly suggest looking into a little more, because it will surprise you Start with the Bertrand/Mullainathan paper I posted on the previous page IMO.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Well, again, obviously a "qualified LGBT" actor should get the role. I'm not disputing that; no one would.

Interesting point about LGBT people generally acting straight. I still think you're missing a few steps in the logical chain though. The fundamental, and still unaddressed, issue is acting's innate nature; people pretend to be things they aren't. I am, however, completely writing off your last sentence as being plain wrong. Straight people, while not discriminated or stereotyped, do "need explaining," as all humans do.

You'd have more success arguing the first point, that by simply living in a majority straight world LGBT people gain experience playing straight. But you've got to stop qualifying your answers or change the hypothetical facts: we're assuming the competency of the actors. And, all else equal, I don't think LGBT roles should go to LGBT actors by necessity.

Most consumers of media are straight, and thus do not need to have heterosexuals explained to them. Poor representation of LGBT people can do harm to the perception of LGBT people in reality. In that respect, "straight" doesn't need explaining to the audience. A poor representation of a straight person does not affect the perception of straight people.

 

[Gleethor]

Troy Baker did a hell of a Scatman Cruthers impression in Tranformers Fall of Cybertron

 

[Gotdatmoney]

There absolutely is value in giving LGBT characters to LGBT actors. A quality gay actor is always going to be preferable for a gay role to a quality hetero actor.

We would come out of it only having the evidence strengthened. We wouldn't learn anything knew, we would just have the affirmation that video game voice acting doesn't operate in a vacuum.

When it comes to acting that actually doesn't matter. The entire point of acting is trying to portray the character that the creator has envisioned. The race or the gender of the actor isn't actually relevant to this role in its fundamental purpose.

The issue is that you will have white actors gobbling the majority of the roles based on biases in every part of the industry from game concepts to directors to perceived superiority in acting people. But it's not as though by being black you are necessarily going to give a more convincing voice to the character you are voicing or you'll fit the position better. There is no "black" voice or "indian" voice (not the stereotypical shit) or "LGBT" voice.

 

[A Link to the Past]

When it comes to acting that actually doesn't matter. The entire point of acting is trying to portray the character that the creator has envisioned. The race or the gender of the actor isn't actually relevant to this role in its fundamental purpose.

The issue is that you will have white actors gobbling the majority of the roles based on biases in every part of the industry from game concepts to directors to perceived superiority in acting people. But it's not as though by being black you are necessarily going to give a more convincing voice to the character you are voicing or you'll fit the position better. There is no "black" voice or "indian" voice (not the stereotypical shit) or "LGBT" voice.

The issue with a straight actor portraying an LGBT actor is that when the creator does something wrong, the actor lacks perspective that might help to guide the character in the right direction.

 

[neerg]

If there's discrimination at the game design level or if there is a supply problem for minority voice actors, as a casting director you've just created an incentive for the writers to create even less well-written minorities.



The best way to combat your own unconscious and conscious bias is to be aware of it. I'd strongly suggest looking into a little more, because it will surprise you Start with the Bertrand/Mullainathan paper I posted on the previous page IMO.

I will do, thank you

 

[injurai]

That's the most backwards logic I've ever seen. Firstly, remember that only one of us ever said the word quota. Secondly, gatekeeping refers to exclusionary behaviour, and the closest thing to exclusionary it would be is to limit the most privileged race of actors only very slightly.

If you're intentionally seeking out LGBT actors to just give them the role, then that is meeting a quota. Don't act like it's a scary slanderous word to be applied to what you're advocating for. If it's what you think is needed then embrace it. Don't turn that back on me as if I'm misrepresenting you.

As for gatekeeping. Blind auditions, or merit based auditions are supposed to be about not gatekeeping. If you're in favor of some sort of affirmative action like mechanism in place, then fine. But it's a form of gatekeeping.

 

[conman]

Sucks as a general pattern. Is kinda cool as a one-off.

 

[plasmawave]

So a lgbt actor shouldn't play a straight character cause he has no perspective?

Building walls one at the time.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Building walls one at the time.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Coffee Dog]

The issue with a straight actor portraying an LGBT actor is that when the creator does something wrong, the actor lacks perspective that might help to guide the character in the right direction.

How is that not an issue with an LGBT actor portraying a straight character?

Or is your position just that an LGBT actor poorly portraying a straight character doesn't hurt anyone in your opinion/you can't give a shit?

 

[MMaRsu]

Yea I don't really care for what color of skin the voice actor is.

Same here, as long as they did a good job and got paid im all fine

 

[Reebot]

Most consumers of media are straight, and thus do not need to have heterosexuals explained to them. Poor representation of LGBT people can do harm to the perception of LGBT people in reality. In that respect, "straight" doesn't need explaining to the audience. A poor representation of a straight person does not affect the perception of straight people.

Oh, I read "explained" as an understand communicated to the actor, informing the performance. Not directly to the audience. Interesting use.

But, as before, you're now presupposing a poor depiction of an LGBT character. This is bad, you'll find no disagreement here. But remember that we are assuming the competency of the actor.

I am fundamentally opposed to mandating, or even strongly suggesting, default casting that conforms to the reality of the actor. While seemingly appealing, its actually quite restrictive; as I noted, the immediately obvious inverse would be only casting straight actors for straight roles. We can move beyond sexual identification or preference, look at religion or politics, to see how really limiting this becomes.

I'm never going to argue against better depiction of LGBT characters, but I'm still unconvinced this is innately served by restricting casting. The opposite might actually be true; by widening the pool of possible actors, we allow for more possible simultaneous depictions.

 

[plasmawave]

What do you mean by this?

You're only limiting minorities to act minority characters? Right now the voice acting job is a free for all.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

You're only limiting minorities to act minority characters? Right now the voice acting job is a free for all.

No to both comments. The goal of this article is was to express frustration that the few leading black characters were voiced by white people. Getting poc to voice poc most of time will fix this. Yes voice acting is free to all but not everyone has equal opportunities with white people having a obvious advantage.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The issue with a straight actor portraying an LGBT actor is that when the creator does something wrong, the actor lacks perspective that might help to guide the character in the right direction.

The voice actor is there to deliver a voice. Their job is not inherently to be delivering critique of the lines they deliver though I imagine they will in certain situations. If the dialogue writer makes a shit mistake it should probably be addressed to him by someone of the LGBT community on the writing team or an adviser. Nothing about delivering the voice talent requires you to be that. If an LGBT person gets the opportunity to voice that role that's awesome, it's not particularly preferential given a voice actor first and foremost needs to deliver the applicable voice talent before anything else.

 

[B-Genius]

Great response from LB.

Is it completely unheard of to have people of different ethnicities voicing various roles? What about narrators and characters with no physical form/design? What matters is the quality of the acting and whether we as the audience are able to believe in the role that's being portrayed.

This is another instance that makes me resentful of the gaming press at large. Of course, the new Uncharted is only being "called out" because it's huge. Lesser known studios, games and performers will obviously not bat any eyelids.

As a counter-example to such petty uproars, William Vanderpuye is a fantastic voice actor who plays the character Patches throughout the Souls series. (Incidentally, he also plays Lautrec in Dark 1.)

At the end of the day, skin colour shouldn't matter in the slightest. It amazes me that people still have the time and energy to dedicate to such a trivial thing.

 

[The Artisan]

I think the real issue is that the pool of actors chosen to do video game roles just isn't that diverse. For aaa games it is often the same familiar actors in the starring roles.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

If you're intentionally seeking out LGBT actors to just give them the role, then that is meeting a quota. Don't act like it's a scary slanderous word to be applied to what you're advocating for. If it's what you think is needed then embrace it. Don't turn that back on me as if I'm misrepresenting you.

As for gatekeeping. Blind auditions, or merit based auditions are supposed to be about not gatekeeping. If you're in favor of some sort of affirmative action like mechanism in place, then fine. But it's a form of gatekeeping.

Quotas are not a bad thing. It's been proven in many situations diversity provides better results to teams than homogeneous mixes. Requiring diversity is not some tabu thing that ultimately makes things less based on merit. It's no less about merit than it is about results which are proven to be beneficial. Keep that in mind.

 

[injurai]

Quotas are not a bad thing. It's been proven in many situations diversity provides better results to teams than homogeneous mixes. Requiring diversity is not some tabu thing that ultimately makes things less based on merit. It's no less about merit than it is about results which are proven to be beneficial. Keep that in mind.

Which is why I am telling this poster to not be adverse to the use of that word. Their solution goes beyond a fair system, and creates other problems of equal opportunity and representation. Not just for people of majority, but other minorities.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Great response from LB.

Is it completely unheard of to have people of different ethnicities voicing various roles? What about narrators and characters with no physical form/design? What matters is the quality of the acting and whether we as the audience are able to believe in the role that's being portrayed.

This is another instance that makes me resentful of the gaming press at large. Of course, the new Uncharted is only being "called out" because it's huge. Lesser known studios, games and performers will obviously not bat any eyelids.

As a counter-example to such petty uproars,

At the end of the day, skin colour shouldn't matter in the slightest. It amazes me that people still have the time and energy to dedicate to such a trivial thing.

It's completely obvious that you don't actually care or mature enough to hear these important issues so why come in this thread to write this nonsense?

 

[Laughing Banana]

kratos isn't white

But they go ahead and make him white anyways, lol

I honestly it's preferable for black characters to be voiced by black actors, vice versa, because it gives more people more chance to join in to spread diversity. Also so that we don't get the same Troy Baker Laura Bailey Troy Baker Laura Bailey Troy Baker Laura Bailey in like a million other games.

 

[Buburibon]

again, for probably the billionth time on gaf this month, unconscious bias leads those doing the hiring to think those who look like them to be the better person for the job, even if they aren't.

I'm not sure to what extent it is done unconsciously, but I agree people tend to hire those they believe/feel they'll be (comfortably) able to work with. I'd like to think most of the time race doesn't factor into the equation, but we know it sometimes does, unfortunately. In any case, it's safe to say there's always a bias of some kind tipping the scale one way or the other. For instance, my HR team avoids hiring candidates who during interviews display affinity towards certain sociopolitical ideologies we'd rather keep out of our office. Though in that case, I wouldn't call it a bias per se, but an unwritten policy of sorts.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I'm not sure to what extent it is done unconsciously, but I agree people tend to hire those they believe/feel they'll be (comfortably) able to work with. I'd like to think most of the time race doesn't factor into the equation, but we know it sometimes does, unfortunately. In any case, it's safe to say there's always a bias of some kind tipping the scale one way or the other. For instance, my HR team avoids hiring candidates who during interviews display affinity towards certain sociopolitical ideologies we'd rather keep out of our office. Though in that case, I wouldn't call it a bias per se, but an unwritten policy of sorts.

I feel like I need to dig out my old psych book and post some examples of how race and sex play a role in job interviews and perception of people. Just so we can have it out there that this is a common thing that should not be brushed over as "sometimes" or "unfortunately in the few circumstances it does occur"

 

[Famassu]

Great response from LB.

Is it completely unheard of to have people of different ethnicities voicing various roles? What about narrators and characters with no physical form/design? What matters is the quality of the acting and whether we as the audience are able to believe in the role that's being portrayed.

This is another instance that makes me resentful of the gaming press at large. Of course, the new Uncharted is only being "called out" because it's huge. Lesser known studios, games and performers will obviously not bat any eyelids.

As a counter-example to such petty uproars, William Vanderpuye is a fantastic voice actor who plays the character Patches throughout the Souls series. (Incidentally, he also plays Lautrec in Dark 1.)

At the end of the day, skin colour shouldn't matter in the slightest. It amazes me that people still have the time and energy to dedicate to such a trivial thing.

Again to you too, read the fucking thread. Pretty much no one is arguing that white people should never get black roles. This is just a symptom of a larger issue that DOES need some addressing. Minorities being shafted out of work due to systematic racism/issues where white people are preferred no matter what the situation is hardly a "trivial thing", don't be daft.

 

[hawk2025]

I feel like I need to dig out my old psych book and post some examples of how race and sex play a role in job interviews and perception of people. Just so we can have it out there that this is a common thing that should not be brushed over as "sometimes" or "unfortunately in the few circumstances it does occur"

Even before the interview process, a simple name leads to significantly different outcomes on callbacks.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Plus when looking at Neil's work on The Last of Us you have Marlene, Sam, Henry and Riley.

I just realized that all the black characters in TLOU

Spoiler

were killed

, haha.

 

[Buburibon]

I feel like I need to dig out my old psych book and post some examples of how race and sex play a role in job interviews and perception of people. Just so we can have it out there that this is a common thing that should not be brushed over as "sometimes" or "unfortunately in the few circumstances it does occur"

Do you mind sharing the name of the psych book you speak of? I wouldn't mind learning a few things on the subject.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Even before the interview process, a simple name leads to significantly different outcomes on callbacks.

Yup. Completely dumb. Another one is that when the competence of a white individual and a black individual is ambiguous, the white individual will be graded as closer toward positive and the black individual will be graded more toward negative. Despite being given the same dialogue to judge by tested individual.

Like, I expect people to somewhat educate themselves on this. just a bit.

Do you mind sharing the name of the psych book you speak of? I wouldn't learning a few things on the subject.

Yeah, I'll go dig out the textbook and post it the name and edition. It's a social psychology textbook. Lot of interesting stuff in there.

 

[Hero Prinny]

I just know that if I were casting a game I would want white actors for the white characters, black actors for the black parts, latino actors for the latino roles etc.

I'd want whoever does the best job regardless of what their skin color, gender, or ethnic background.

 

[Illucio]

It's more of an issue when even the relatively few black characters are given to white voice actors too often without possibly even giving a chance to people who actually represent the ethnicity/minority of the character to get that role while black people don't possibly get similar opportunities voicing white characters or any roles for that matter.

There's nothing hugely wrong with this single casting choice per se, but it's still something worth discussing in the larger context of "are black people not given equal opportunities to apply to these roles and if there are no black people applying to these roles, why is that?" There are often some social issues behind such lack of representation by particular groups in certain professions (like the lack of women in large parts of the game industry & engineering as well) and those are absolutely worth keeping in mind and bringing them up whenever it happens, even if the Laura Baileys of the world aren't personally & directly responsible for such things happening and can do an excellent performance at the job.

The problem isn't something easily fixed, it's solely bias on a casting director of whom he or she deems is fit for the role. If someone does a great voice work for a character and lands the role, okay. I'm sick of the conversation "everyone job needs to be diverse and if there is small minority not in the workforce there's a problem." You don't have to be a race to voice a racial character and you don't have to exclude any group of race just because you have too many white people working in the field or not.

"Oh this lady was great at voicing this character, but we have too many people in the white demographic voicing other roles right now so she can't get the part."

Yes there is people of all color in the field of voice acting trying to get parts, no one but the casting director knows if they were good for the role. By going in and saying "There needs to be more black people voicing characters." Companies think they should make a quota of how many people of different people race and gender working for them.

I have been personally turned down on jobs because of my race and gender solely because they're quota of different races and gender have been filled and they we're looking for someone to meet that quota. Who knows, maybe the person who got accepted was better then me, maybe worse. But I nonetheless I was still denied because I didn't fit their racial and gender quota. How's that any different from a black person being denied because they weren't white? It's the same principle, but instead of racial or gender hate from the company, it's in fear of hate from the public because of assumption of racial and gender inequality practices.

The attempts to fix these demographic problems is just as bad as a school saying a girl cannot wear a outfit because it will distract the boys and that she has to change. Instead of teaching every student that no one should objectify a persons body or that showing too much skin is sexual. In turn, the goal should be to teach directors to never discriminate roles for characters because of their race or gender, and to embedded that idea in their heads. Creating quotas or saying more people of one demographic should be hired just maintains the status quo and creating unfair opportunities to everyone else not meeting that quota regardless of their skill.

 

[Terrell]

The whole Nadine situation sucks.

As a black man, seeing Nadine kick ass is great, and Laura Bailey is one of my favorite voice actors; I absolutely love her take on the character. Her playing Nadine doesn't really bother me, but I can absolutely see why others wouldn't like it--mainly because it's emblematic of a much larger systemic issue of a lack of representation, both in terms of the games and the studios making them. It stands out a lot more because we rarely see characters like Nadine in big AAA productions, or in general really.

I don't think that anyone can disagree that this is a multi-faceted issue. People in and out of the industry on both sides of the racial divide (that I wish didn't still exist) have widely varied opinions on the subject because of how the issue is multi-faceted.

Voice acting as a job regardless of your race is already a tough nut to crack unless you're a big name that's already got a full-on acting gig. And the lack of diversity in the field because of there being so few big names out there to begin with helps nothing (the only African-American voice actor I could name before this thread was Cree Summer... mind you, I can't name many voice actors period, so...)

But what adds to this the most, and really what I think is the root cause of the issue, is simple: how can you expect cultural diversity in voice acting to fill roles by race when the battle for cultural diversity in the roles available to voice actors is still so incredibly small in the first place?

Sure, there are roles where race really isn't a boundary, that much I'll concede to, but why would an ethnic or racial minority typically consider working in the field, when their races/ethnicities are either depictions of stereotypes or not depicted at all? It's not exactly an encouraging thing to prospective non-white VAs to see the only roles they can feel exceptionally good about playing being primarily not human.

So really, while I understand not being happy about the situation, the only way I see the situation improving is to improve the racial makeup of the roles available. More roles, more diversity in the people who would want to take those roles. And then we can see if there's something that can be done from there.

I hate to say it, but this is one of those situations where the cart is being put before the horse. Maybe take care of the much more damaging representation issue that can be easily fixed before we start looking at fixing the workforce issue that sits behind it.

 

[Bishop89]

I'd want whoever does the best job regardless of what their skin color, gender, or ethnic background.

Yep, otherwise it's discrimination if you decide to factor in skin, gender, ethnicity.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This is such a complicated issue, as evidenced by Dave Fennoy and Phil LaMarr's quotes on the matter. Even as black voice actors who have strong opinions on the matter, they're still conflicted because it's such a huge grey area with wider reaching implications for the industry.



The essence of voice acting is performing for a character that isn't you in almost any respect, for the most part anyway. That needs to be preserved or you risk creating a house of cards where actors are gradually pigeon-holed and type-cast for voice roles based on their appearance. In an effort to get more minorities in minority roles you could accidentally foster the wrong kind of behaviour when it comes to casting.

But where's the root of the issue? Lack of colour-blind casting? Not enough diversity in the talent pool? Harder for minorities to get established in the industry? Probably all of these and many more. The issue isn't voice actors acting though.

I think the article is too reductive in its implications of casting minorities in minority roles being the magic bullet, and I'm not sure making Uncharted 4 the poster boy for the problems in the voice acting industry is helpful either. The acting/voice acting industry in LA and beyond probably needs overhaul from top to bottom with a total influx of new blood, but that's gradual and there's no one thing any casting director can do to speed up the process.

Eh, I don't really like their reasonings, to be honest, because the way they worded it they clearly didn't see it from a "so black people would have more chance to flourish in the VA field", to be honest. Basically their answer seem to be ignoring the highlighted part of your post above.

 

[Terrell]

I'd want whoever does the best job regardless of what their skin color, gender, or ethnic background.

I'm quite sure hiring quotas became a thing in the 70s and 80s because the people making hiring decisions couldn't be trusted to be unbiased in their hiring practices when they were originally instituted (and possibly still can't be, depending on how frequently management gets cycled through).

It's why people coming out of school with Human Resources training are a MUCH different breed of HR person than what you saw in the 80s all the way up to the 21st century. Many schools that teach/train people to be in HR try to beat the race, gender and sexuality biases out of prospective HR workers, so the "hiring quota" issue can be put to bed in future generations. One of the few times where I saw higher education change to meet the needs of the job market they'd be entering without ever being forced to.

But until those folks are in the positions they need to be, the hiring quota will remain a much-misunderstood necessity.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Yep, otherwise it's discrimination if you decide to factor in skin, gender, ethnicity.

Not really but people would know that if they bother to read the article which most haven't.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I just realized that all the black characters in TLOU

Spoiler

were killed

, haha.

I see this brought up often, but every character with the exception of

Spoiler

three, obviously excluding Joel and Ellie, almost everyone ends up dying in TLoU. The ones that live are Tommy, Maria, and Bill. And they all have one thing in common, they actively avoided going too far with Joel and Ellie. Bill doesn't want to leave his town because he knows it, and he wants Joel and Ellie out of there so he's not distracted. Maria never leaves the compound, and Tommy only goes a brief distance away before returning. So out of a cast of 15, including those that played major or at least named roles, five characters survived.

 

[Bishop89]

Not really but people would know that if they bother to read the article which most haven't.

If you don't hire someone because of their gender, race, ethnicity, that is workplace discrimination and is illegal. Of course there is no way to prove it unless the employer screws up.

You hire someone for their skills and possible potential (depending on the role).

I'm speaking generally, not about the article.