Support NeoGAF

[ManaByte]

The problem I was having with his race was that I kept googling and would get pictures of him as white. So I wasn't sure what was going on.

Originally Tony Masters was white in the 616 universe. But then in the Ultimate Universe they made him black (like Nick Fury, which the movies then used). Since then that's been the version of Tony Masters most people prefer and the MCU pulls A LOT of its stuff from the old Ultimate universe and Hickman's 616 stuff.

Basically the MCU is a combination of Ultimate designs and Hickman plotting. The whole "Hydra is SHIELD" story came from Hickman's SHIELD run, and a lot of the cosmic stuff (like the Black Order) is also Hickman. Most people are expecting them to use Hickman's F4 run as inspiration or the movie as well. Hell, with Krakoa Hickman even gave them an explanation for why Mutants aren't seen yet.

 

[NahaNago]

Originally Tony Masters was white in the 616 universe. But then in the Ultimate Universe they made him black (like Nick Fury, which the movies then used). Since then that's been the version of Tony Masters most people prefer and the MCU pulls A LOT of its stuff from the old Ultimate universe and Hickman's 616 stuff.

Basically the MCU is a combination of Ultimate designs and Hickman plotting. The whole "Hydra is SHIELD" story came from Hickman's SHIELD run, and a lot of the cosmic stuff (like the Black Order) is also Hickman. Most people are expecting them to use Hickman's F4 run as inspiration or the movie as well. Hell, with Krakoa Hickman even gave them an explanation for why Mutants aren't seen yet.

Well you lost me on the Krakoa. All I know of that place is that it is the island where mutants live. My comic book knowledge is very limited since I barely got back into it last year. Hydra being Shield is just an easy plot to create. Gotta go to work.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

Endgame a super feminist movie based on a 30 second shot? Are you kidding me. That shot wasn't even for feminist reasons, it was purely for fan service.

That scene was absolutely a feminist scene.

 

[R6Rider]

Just got back from seeing it. I liked it overall.

4/5 stars.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

Originally Tony Masters was white in the 616 universe. But then in the Ultimate Universe they made him black (like Nick Fury, which the movies then used). Since then that's been the version of Tony Masters most people prefer and the MCU pulls A LOT of its stuff from the old Ultimate universe and Hickman's 616 stuff.

Basically the MCU is a combination of Ultimate designs and Hickman plotting. The whole "Hydra is SHIELD" story came from Hickman's SHIELD run, and a lot of the cosmic stuff (like the Black Order) is also Hickman. Most people are expecting them to use Hickman's F4 run as inspiration or the movie as well. Hell, with Krakoa Hickman even gave them an explanation for why Mutants aren't seen yet.

That’s a simplification though. The MCU has a range of influence from the comics that is much wider than Hickman and the Ultimate Universe. Those are two ingredients of many, sure.

I also think the “whitewashing” of Taskmaster is sort of a reach and don’t follow the consensus that the Ultimate TaskMaster is the one “most people prefer”. He’s a pretty niche character in general but the 616 version is on equal footing at least to the Ultimate version in terms of popularity.

 

[99Luffy]

It didnt hit me who that actress was until the end of the movie.

Good movie. Id give it a sold 7.5/10.
It mostly gets by with some really really solid action scenes, like top tier bond type scenes. My issue is that with the intro I was expecting a civil war/bourne type movie again. Instead they get the family together and attack the villains fortress head on. Movie didn't really throw any curveballs.

And silly me when they did that whole face mask thing I thought they were gonna reveal..

Spoiler

Black Widow actually has a clone and that the one that died was the clone.

 

[YCoCg]

Mid-Tier for me, Taskmaster was butchered beyond belief, the plot holes kept pulling me out but Red Guardian was cool, prison scene was the best part.

 

[Bill O'Rights]

Folks, just a note to drop the sexism, women and twitter politics from the thread please. This is the OT for the film, reviews and GAF impressions (which are more accurate than any review in my opinion). It seems to be back on track anyway, but some posts on the previous pages will earn reply bans from this point forward. This post is just to define that line in the sand so we aren't issuing these removals without warning. This thread is for the film only, not the wider discussion of character replacements, studio agenda's, incels, sexism etc.


Thanks

 

[ManaByte]

Mid-Tier for me, Taskmaster was butchered beyond belief, the plot holes kept pulling me out but Red Guardian was cool, prison scene was the best part.

Well we're finally getting the real Mandarin in Shang-Chi (only change is that the Ten Rings aren't finger rings but instead armbands) and with how Taskmaster was handled in this movie it means we can always get a different Taskmaster in the future; especially with the Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers being built right now.

 

[ManaByte]

With the movie opening with about $90M PLUS whatever they made from selling it for $30 on Disney+, I wouldn't be shocked if Jungle Cruise isn't the last Premiere Access movie. They might do this for all of their movies going forward if the box office isn't affected that much by Disney+. There will always be people who will prefer it in the theater as well as those who will just watch it at home.

 

[Valonquar]

A ton of scenes in the movie felt like they used the Willy Wonka facial smoothing CGI on the actresses. It was really off-putting. Overall the plot was sort of weak. The CGI work had a lot of terrible moments throughout. Did they use a CGI body double for half of ScarJo's non-action scenes or something? It just looked weird a lot to me.
Plot was equally terrible.

Spoiler: SPOILERS

Taskmaster was OP, still lost without doing more "Mirror your moves stuff" which was a lot of buildup for nothing. Everyone was expecting that Taskmaster would still want to kill BW even after regaining self control. Non-mutant ninja grrls survive insane amounts of punishment that would shatter ever bone in the average 120lb woman's body....

It's a comic book I know, but goddamn.

 

[ManaByte]

A ton of scenes in the movie felt like they used the Willy Wonka facial smoothing CGI on the actresses.

Well the beginning of the movie did use some de-aging since it was set in 1995.

 

[ManaByte]

Box Office: Marvel’s ‘Black Widow’ Debuts With Dazzling $80 Million in Theaters, $60 Million on Disney Plus

"Black Widow" generated $80 million in its opening weekend, crushing pandemic-era box office records.

variety.com

Holy shit. $80M in US theaters and then another $60M from Disney+.

Holy shit. They're probably going to do Disney+ for everything now.

Final weekend figure with worldwide box office and Disney+ is $215M.

 

[jason10mm]

Not sure 80 mill is gonna knock down any doors but the 60m on D+ sure will, since that is effectively 120-150m BO since it isn't shared with the theaters. But this CRUSHES disc sales, which used to be a nice bumper crop for films for years down the road, and I still don't know how streaming "profit" is shared with cast in most cases.

I wonder about D+ premium for an "adult" film where it is competing with couple date night vs staying in and a kids film when the "in theater" experience is usually 1000x worse (IMHO). Get the kids and all their friends over to watch for $30? SOLD

But how log till BW goes to regular D+? Probably 'round October, right? I think I can wait since the wife ixnayed going to see it and the kid couldn't care less about BW minus Iron Man.

 

[ManaByte]

But how log till BW goes to regular D+? Probably 'round October, right?

Says right on the listing on the site. October 6th.

 

[CloudNull]

Box Office: Marvel’s ‘Black Widow’ Debuts With Dazzling $80 Million in Theaters, $60 Million on Disney Plus

"Black Widow" generated $80 million in its opening weekend, crushing pandemic-era box office records.

variety.com

Holy shit. $80M in US theaters and then another $60M from Disney+.

Holy shit. They're probably going to do Disney+ for everything now.

Final weekend figure with worldwide box office and Disney+ is $215M.

Good to hear. Plenty of room for theaters and streaming to exist. Good numbers overall and excited for the future of the box office.

 

[sol_bad]

Box Office: Marvel’s ‘Black Widow’ Debuts With Dazzling $80 Million in Theaters, $60 Million on Disney Plus

"Black Widow" generated $80 million in its opening weekend, crushing pandemic-era box office records.

variety.com

Holy shit. $80M in US theaters and then another $60M from Disney+.

Holy shit. They're probably going to do Disney+ for everything now.

Final weekend figure with worldwide box office and Disney+ is $215M.

They still need to see how Shang Chi goes, if that movie makes 250 million world wide on opening weekend they probably won't care about the Disney+ numbers.
I could see them sticking to the 45 day theatrical run and then releasing it on Disney+ Premium.

*EDIT*
I looked at the first weekend box office for each country for Doctor Strange and it totalled 106 million. I excluded China and about 4 countries that made less than $300,000 opening weekend. I chose Doctor Strange because he was an unknown character at the time so to me that is the lowest possible outcome at the box office. Black Widow is a much more well known character and I think the movie would have performed better if COVID wasn't around, much better than Doctor Strange anyway.
The international box office for Black Widow is a bit slim so I think that is where a lot of the Disney+ rentals are coming from. No doubt Black Widow would have easily hit over 100 million if COVID wasn't around.

This is obviously just all random guess work and speculation, one thing I think is for certain is that the world is still thirsty for MCU content.
IMO Black Widow could have easily made more than that 60 million Disney+ money worldwide if we were in a none pandemic world.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Just watched it. Loved it. One of the best in the MCU IMO. Lots of action, some genuine laughs, and the family subplot was intriguing. I kept chuckling during the last battle, hoping that Dom Torreto would swoop in with his rocket car, and save Natasha with the line, "it's all about family."

The only negatives for me is that they oversold Taskmaster in not only the trailers, but also early in the movie. Rather than a persistent stalking threat, like the Terminator, the character just kinda disappears midway through the movie.

Other than that, I have no complaints. The MCU just keeps delivering. I never thought Black Widow would be capable of carrying a feature film, and here I am trying to figure out where it ranks among the best in the collection. Great stuff. I know she's dead, but it would be nice to have a sequel.

 

[Master Of Illusion]

Sucked massive ass.

I was down for the first half of the movie. The 2nd half though was an exercise in "Just because you could, doesn't mean you should."

Also, how someone looked at the visual effects in this movie (especially the red room shit) and said "Yes, this is releasable in the year of our lord 2021" is beyond me.

 

[Neolombax]

I thought it was disappointing. The movie started off strong, I really thought it was going to be a spy movie. Turns out it was not, at all. Later on scenes started to drag and the set pieces were not as exciting for an MCU movie.

 

[Hardensoul]

Wait, so you're saying YouTube grifters were lying about the movie for monetized views?

Well Taskmaster was gender swap, seems to be one of the main reasons for the uproar. I didn't know and did not care for the Black Widow comics. So I was indifferent about it. I enjoyed the movie but I understood some of the disappointment from those fans.

 

[HoodWinked]

It's a very middle of the road marvel movie made worse knowing she died in endgame it was so inconsequential.

Taskmaster was fine. I suppose he could have been better used as a villian for a Captain America show. Probably better than the flag smasher shit they came up with.

Pugh and Harbour were great. Scarjo was decent.

 

[sol_bad]

I think I'm going to have to purchase this on Disney+, looks like Sydney's lockdown will get extended again as Covid cases aren't dropping yet.


Really didn't want my first viewing on my OLED screen but I'll see it again in the cinemas.

 

[partime]

With the movie opening with about $90M PLUS whatever they made from selling it for $30 on Disney+, I wouldn't be shocked if Jungle Cruise isn't the last Premiere Access movie. They might do this for all of their movies going forward if the box office isn't affected that much by Disney+. There will always be people who will prefer it in the theater as well as those who will just watch it at home.

Watched on Disney+, originally cancelled my Regal RPX tickets and wanted to recoop the non-refundable $6 convenience charge. Turned a $70 movie (2x adults, 2x kids) into a $30+6 movie night at home.

 

[BlackTron]

There were some pretty well done aspects of the movie. Lots was also kinda lame or mediocre. Overall worth watching.

It would have been better had it released earlier. Being a solid middle-tier Marvel movie would have done a lot more good to help fill the gaps circa Civil War than after the most impossibly over-the-top movies have been made like Endgame.

It reminded me of Deadpool when they joked in-movie about how there were only 2 X-Men in the movie because of budget constraints. The production value of BW is jarring after IW and EG. It felt like a Marvel TV show trying to punch above its weight into a movie.

I think it would have been smarter to do an actual spy movie to make it more distinctive in the MCU. It's a plot to set up a lot of hot girls fighting each other. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a bit meh after how high they've set the bar.

 

[oagboghi2]

That scene was absolutely a feminist scene.

Don’t bother. sol_bad lives in a constant state of denial

 

[The Cockatrice]

First half of the movie with the norway and budapest were nice but then it goes to absolute random shit. On the red room it was just absolute nonsense random actions shots cut nonstop like a 2003 action movie and it was meh.

 

[longdi]

The more funny a SR sketch is, the more cheezy the movie is. Guess we can chalk BW as another one of the cash in?

 

[BarringGaffner]

First half of the movie with the norway and budapest were nice but then it goes to absolute random shit. On the red room it was just absolute nonsense random actions shots cut nonstop like a 2003 action movie and it was meh.

Yeah I really loved the movie at first but the last act was pretty lazy. The perfect digital mask for both of them, the stupid ‘pheromone’ thing, etc.

 

[evolvaer]

mediocre flop. Passable to watch once but lazy and by the numbers. Not so much even feminist, just bad writing.

 

[HellforLeather]

I just cant get excited about this movie. Taskmaster could have been a cool villain but after reading the spoilers and what they did with the character, it just deflated any desire I have to see this.

 

[NickFire]

It was pretty good imo.

 

[LordCBH]

It was pretty good imo.

Agreed

 

[jshackles]

I'm just having such a hard time these days caring about the Marvel cinematic universe. Wandavision and Loki have been generally good but sometimes hit and miss. The Falcon show was awful and I didn't even finish it. I do appreciate that they have a lot more time for character development in something like Loki as opposed to giving him 20 minutes of screen time in Avengers though.

I like the Black Widow character, but I'm having a hard time caring at all about her origin story or back story or whatever this is. I'm guessing, based on context, that this is like a single one-off movie and not part of the overarching plot for Phase 4, right? Everything we've got so far after Endgame has felt like they're saying "just go ahead and choke this down because desert is coming soon".

 

[ManaByte]

I'm guessing, based on context, that this is like a single one-off movie and not part of the overarching plot for Phase 4, right?

This introduces the first member of the MCU Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers. Falcon and The Winder Soldier introduces the second.

 

[Javthusiast]

Just watched the movie. Was really good. Florence as always was amazing. Keeping her in the mcu going forward is a no brainer.

Gotta say though, the taskmaster

Spoiler

twist was very obvious, but it was intergrated into the story well and made more sense than it just being a dude who has copy powers like some mutant. Also since it was the taskmaster protocol some shady group can probably create their own if they wanted. Or they keep Antonia as a mercenary for hire going forward.

 

[Javthusiast]

 

[IDKFA]

I'm just having such a hard time these days caring about the Marvel cinematic universe. Wandavision and Loki have been generally good but sometimes hit and miss. The Falcon show was awful and I didn't even finish it. I do appreciate that they have a lot more time for character development in something like Loki as opposed to giving him 20 minutes of screen time in Avengers though.

I like the Black Widow character, but I'm having a hard time caring at all about her origin story or back story or whatever this is. I'm guessing, based on context, that this is like a single one-off movie and not part of the overarching plot for Phase 4, right? Everything we've got so far after Endgame has felt like they're saying "just go ahead and choke this down because desert is coming soon".

I actually agree.

The MCU had a single story arc, which was leading up to End Game. It was the end of over a decade of story telling and gave the MCU a satisfying end.

I'm not sure how they can possibly top that. What is the plan now? What are the next few phases building up to?

 

[Revolutionary]

You know, I was actually looking forward to this movie. I've never been a fan of Black Widow, but the Avengers game elevated her status to me because she's able to hold her own against genuine superheroes. I thought she would be a badass in this movie.

...but it's just Bad Russian Accents: The Movie

Seriously, the bad accents were the only source of enjoyment for me - there is nothing redeemable about this film. At least Captain Marvel had the excellent Sam Jackson for Larson to bounce off of - this movie has NOTHING.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

I suppose Disney+ will keep this movie at $30 until it releases on the platform for everyone.

But I wonder if they will play with that model in the future. Say, a $5 discount the week before it releases? Or are they only really concerned with those initial home-viewing sales and want to avoid encouraging people to wait.

 

[ManaByte]

I suppose Disney+ will keep this movie at $30 until it releases on the platform for everyone.

But I wonder if they will play with that model in the future. Say, a $5 discount the week before it releases? Or are they only really concerned with those initial home-viewing sales and want to avoid encouraging people to wait.

I mean, there have been three other Premiere Access movies before this and they kept all of them $30

 

[sol_bad]

I caved and bought it on Disney+ and will watch it again at the cinemas. Really well made film about family with nice emotional beats.

Taskmaster doesn't mean much to me as I have only seen him 3-4 times in the comics and he was more of a joke character in what I read.

Spoiler

Unfortunately, as soon as I saw Olga's name in the credits at the start of the film I knew she was Taskmaster. She was completely missing from any marketing material so it was obvious it was her. I have no idea why they put the credits at the start like that, it's usually at the end.

I don't understand what plot holes people are talking about.

Spoiler

The pheromone stuff didn't bother me, goes well with the mind control aspect.
I teared up at the dinner table scene when Yelena was talking about how there family was real. My wife cried at the end when they said good bye.
This movie has heart.

I'm not sure how they can possibly top that. What is the plan now? What are the next few phases building up to?

In all seriousness, why does there have to be some big overarching story?
We know that is going to happen but why can't each film be based on it's own merit. It's beyond silly to say a movie or show doesn't live up to expectations because it doesn't provide anything towards the overarching aspect of the MCU.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

I mean, there have been three other Premiere Access movies before this and they kept all of them $30

True, but it's a new format so there is still room to play.
I think it makes sense not to discourage people from bolstering your open weekend numbers, but it has to be tempting for movies that will slow down in a big way after the first weekend.

 

[jason10mm]

I'm sure we will see more variations in the theatrical/streaming windows. HBOmax puts the new film up for what, a month for "free" then it gets binned for a few months and presumably comes back for good? You can't watch GvKK on there anymore on that service, can you?

No way will Disney keep dumping their 250+ million dollar movies out for just $30. Even if you double it to match the equivalent theatrical haul, $60/film is equivalent to around 4-5 tickets which isn't gonna cut it for their big releases, especially when you consider the gutting of the DVD market. No way they get to the digital equivalent of 1-2 BILLION that way and theaters need those big family flicks to drive concession sales else they will have to take more of the BO.

Streaming works for Netflix/amazon because they spend peanuts on ads so their $200 million movies only costs them 200 million. But Disney drops hundreds of millions on ad buys to push their big releases, so their 200 million film really costs them closer to 400 million (in funny Hollywood accounting anyway, since a lot of that is buying bloated cost ad space on a sister company).

I just dont see their stuff doing nearly as well without the relentless ad campaigns. Streaming is largely commercial free and this will have a big toll on ancillary product sales, particularly to kids.

Anyway, TL;DR, I'm not convinced the Streaming market as it is right now can actually support big expensive films for much longer.

 

[ManaByte]

HBOmax puts the new film up for what, a month for "free" then it gets binned for a few months and presumably comes back for good? You can't watch GvKK on there anymore on that service, can you?

The HBOMax thing is only for their 2021 slate. The movie is posted for 31 days on HBO and then is removed to finish the theatrical run. Then it hits the home video window, and after that it returns to HBO.

No way will Disney keep dumping their 250+ million dollar movies out for just $30. Even if you double it to match the equivalent theatrical haul, $60/film is equivalent to around 4-5 tickets which isn't gonna cut it for their big releases, especially when you consider the gutting of the DVD market. No way they get to the digital equivalent of 1-2 BILLION that way and theaters need those big family flicks to drive concession sales else they will have to take more of the BO.

They keep doing the $30 Disney+ thing because they keep 100% of that $30. The reason why theaters cry about it is because they keep about 50% of the box office take.

 

[DeafTourette]

I think the next story is Secret Wars... Inspired by the incursions and Doom World

 

[NickFire]

I actually agree.

The MCU had a single story arc, which was leading up to End Game. It was the end of over a decade of story telling and gave the MCU a satisfying end.

I'm not sure how they can possibly top that. What is the plan now? What are the next few phases building up to?

I'm having a harder time getting excited for the new movies myself. Reasonable people may disagree, but I thought the cohesion of Phase 1-3 storylines added to the individual movies immeasurably. As the average person (myself included) gets to know the more obscure characters, it may feel similar.

There is still the elephant in the room that gives me hope though, and that would be the X-Men. It will be hard to see Wolverine and Professor X recast, but there's so much potential bringing them in.

Finally, I really hope they let the multiverse aspect go away. I'm all for it in the cartoons, but if it keeps building it will be hard for me to care about any of these movies. If death loses all meaning it just ruins the suspense / impact of every movie. I really liked Black Widow and Falcon too, but can't bring myself to watch Loki.

 

[jason10mm]

They keep doing the $30 Disney+ thing because they keep 100% of that $30. The reason why theaters cry about it is because they keep about 50% of the box office take.

Yeah, but is it worth it? A) that's a family of 4 worth of tickets, so larger families/viewing parties are saving $$. B) no repeat sales with streaming, which is a big part of that billion plus BO, and C) no ability to generate hype for other projects through previews.

I'm already pretty tepid for Eternals and Shang Chi simply because I have not been subjected to numerous big screen trailers. Watching a YouTube trailer in a phone is a terrible way to hype a film with a new IP. Going to streaming is robbing Disney of a lot of the PR machine IMHO because everything feels "made for TV" quality now.

 

[Kenpachii]

Never understood the character, always found her useless same as the arrow guy with the avengers. However that trailer looked mighty dope probably will check it out.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

I like the character in Winter Soldier, but it just made no sense to have her in the Avenger's movies. At least without her own Iron Man suit or something that would blemish the character anyway.