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[DY_nasty]

This may sound odd, but SSF4's scrub level is a lot more fun and accessible than BB's while at the same time being much more complex game. Anything at all above mashing, and BB is simpler by far.

Making the 'leap' is much more difficult in SSF4 than Blazblue.

 

[Fugu]

Anything at all above mashing, and BB is simpler by far.

How can it be simpler when it, again, depends on the skill of your opponents? A lot of people say things like this but it doesn't make sense; if it were truly that simple, every decent Street Fighter player would be moonlighting as a BlazBlue player on the side to pick up easy tournament money. The continued presence of a competitive scene surrounding the game makes this statement fundamentally untrue.

 

[QisTopTier]

This may sound odd, but SSF4's scrub level is a lot more fun and accessible than BB's while at the same time being much more complex game. Anything at all above mashing, and BB is simpler by far.

Making the 'leap' is much more difficult in SSF4 than Blazblue.

No just no LOL

 

[Prototype-03]

This may sound odd, but SSF4's scrub level is a lot more fun and accessible than BB's while at the same time being much more complex game. Anything at all above mashing, and BB is simpler by far.

Making the 'leap' is much more difficult in SSF4 than Blazblue.

Hmm... To be honest, I always though BB is a much more complex game than ssf4. May I ask why you think SSF4 is more complex?

 

[Nymerio]

Yup, I'm contemplating whether to go back to Rachel. She's just so fun to play with.

Are you on PSN? I don't get enough valk v. valk matches. In fact, I don't really get much practice outside of Mu, Mak and Litchi. Also, the missions are a good guideline, but usually, there are way better combos out there (ie: more dmg and/or easier).

yup, InvalidTarget. But I haven't really played BBCS online. The only time was 3 matches with Litchi when I got the game, and I played Valk the first time on wednesday.

What I really like about BB is just how good the tutorials and stuff are. I haven't played any other fighting game that does that good a job in explaining all the details like BlazBlue does.

 

[Prototype-03]

yup, InvalidTarget. But I haven't really played BBCS online. The only time was 3 matches with Litchi when I got the game, and I played Valk the first time on wednesday.

What I really like about BB is just how good the tutorials and stuff are. I haven't played any other fighting game that does that good a job in explaining all the details like BlazBlue does.

VF4 says hi. I still sucked at that game though. Also, added you.

 

[Fugu]

This may sound odd, but SSF4's scrub level is a lot more fun and accessible than BB's while at the same time being much more complex game. Anything at all above mashing, and BB is simpler by far.

Making the 'leap' is much more difficult in SSF4 than Blazblue.

In BlazBlue, a recurring scenario is that of the jump out. For most characters, jumping out of pressure is a very viable option because of how fast they occur (some jumps are as short as 3F). Therefore, it's important to consider this option in your blockstrings and you must appropriately punish it. So, do you:

1. Anti-air, because it will stuff the jump (if your opponent doesn't jump, you are probably vulnerable and you leave yourself open to pressure and possibly a CH, depending on your character)?
2. IAD grab, because it will chase the jump and if your opponent doesn't jump there's frequently not much they can do about it (techable, and if you guess the direction of your opponent's jump incorrectly you will probably be hit; there are also many characters with options in the air that will beat this straight up, and if it's read by your opponent they can probably even beat it OTG)?
3. Jump and continue your pressure in the air, which will keep you in the advantageous position (your opponent may have a considerable frame advantage depending on what you used to end your pressure and some characters can punish this very hard; as well, if your opponent doesn't jump you are in a very awkward spot)?
4. Perform a standing grab as an OTG mix-up (if they jump, you're probably going to get hurt, and if they don't jump, there's a good chance that they're trying the same thing; this will also invariably put a hole in your string unless you do a purple grab, which will get teched everywhere but online)?
5. Backdash to reset to a neutral position due to the relative strength of your character's neutral position (this doesn't really net you any damage directly and is an outright bad option against zoning characters and characters with a huge neutral advantage; this can also be punished very hard no matter who you are)?
6. IAD backwards to create distance (pretty much the same as the previous option in terms of disadvantages except easier to chase for some characters and harder for others; if your opponent doesn't jump, you're in trouble)?
7. Forward dash to extend pressure (not an option for some characters, and if your opponent doesn't jump you are now at a disadvantage)?
8. Perform an empty jump to bait your opponent (can get you grabbed if read properly, and if your opponent doesn't jump you're likely just going to land into a block string)?
9. Stand there and do nothing (Relies entirely on your opponent not predicting this because if he does, at best you'll end up neutral)?

I came up with nine potential options that are not character specific (okay, so Tager can't dash) that are all viable (specifics varying by character) responses to an extremely common scenario. All of these options can be punished if they are read, and if you use them too much, an opponent will read them. How can this game be called simple? This also relies on you knowing that your opponent can jump out and your opponent knowing that he can jump out, both tidbits of knowledge that aren't exactly easy to come by.

 

[Prototype-03]

In BlazBlue, a recurring scenario is that of the jump out. For most characters, jumping out of pressure is a very viable option because of how fast they occur (some jumps are as short as 3F). Therefore, it's important to consider this option in your blockstrings and you must appropriately punish it. So, do you:

1. Anti-air, because it will stuff the jump (if your opponent doesn't jump, you are probably vulnerable and you leave yourself open to pressure and possibly a CH, depending on your character)?
2. IAD grab, because it will chase the jump and if your opponent doesn't jump there's frequently not much they can do about it (techable, and if you guess the direction of your opponent's jump incorrectly you will probably be hit; there are also many characters with options in the air that will beat this straight up, and if it's read by your opponent they can probably even beat it OTG)?
3. Jump and continue your pressure in the air, which will keep you in the advantageous position (your opponent may have a considerable frame advantage depending on what you used to end your pressure and some characters can punish this very hard; as well, if your opponent doesn't jump you are in a very awkward spot)?
4. Perform a standing grab as an OTG mix-up (if they jump, you're probably going to get hurt, and if they don't jump, there's a good chance that they're trying the same thing; this will also invariably put a hole in your string unless you do a purple grab, which will get teched everywhere but online)?
5. Backdash to reset to a neutral position due to the relative strength of your character's neutral position (this doesn't really net you any damage directly and is an outright bad option against zoning characters and characters with a huge neutral advantage; this can also be punished very hard no matter who you are)?
6. IAD backwards to create distance (pretty much the same as the previous option in terms of disadvantages except easier to chase for some characters and harder for others; if your opponent doesn't jump, you're in trouble)?
7. Forward dash to extend pressure (not an option for some characters, and if your opponent doesn't jump you are now at a disadvantage)?
8. Perform an empty jump to bait your opponent (can get you grabbed if read properly, and if your opponent doesn't jump you're likely just going to land into a block string)?
9. Stand there and do nothing (Relies entirely on your opponent not predicting this because if he does, at best you'll end up neutral)?

I came up with nine potential options that are not character specific (okay, so Tager can't dash) that are all viable (specifics varying by character) responses to an extremely common scenario. All of these options can be punished if they are read, and if you use them too much, an opponent will read them. How can this game be called simple? This also relies on you knowing that your opponent can jump out and your opponent knowing that he can jump out, both tidbits of knowledge that aren't exactly easy to come by.

All great points and this is just jumping. I really wanted to know what dy_nasty wanted to say why SSF4 was more complex than BB though. If I heard plinking, option select and FA, I was gonna pull my hair out.

I really think that it may be a matter of not having enough players who are higher level only because SSF4 has a bigger base. I'm not saying SSF4 is necessarily a bad game, but I enjoy BBCS a lot more. I think it has more originality than SSF4... I'll give you that it IS an easier game to jump into than BB though.

 

[QisTopTier]

Makoto
+ j.2C became a deadly move if the opponent gets hit by it (lol, that's how he called it), it's fine if the opponent blocks it, though.
+ Using 236A on oki is the same as CS1, however it feels like there's more time to mix-up after it.
+ It seems like you can get 5000 corner damage. With Particle Flare, that becomes 6300.
+ Particle Flare is really simple to combo with.
+ Midscreen: "214A~CCCCC > 214A~A/B". It was said that you can make a ambiguous mix-up with this using either A or B follow-up.
+ Corner: "5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 236A~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 5CC > j.C > j.B > dj.CC > 623C~D" deals 4800 damage, gains 58 meter.
+ Corner: "2A > 5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 236A~D > 6A > j.B > dj.B > 623C~D" deals around 3800 damage.
+ "5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 2C > 236A~D > 6A > j.C > j.B > dj.CC > Corona Upper" deals 5169 damage, gains 61 meter.
+ "5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 2C > 236A~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 5CC > j.C > j.B > dj.CC > Corona Upper" deals 5106 damage, gains 63 meter.
+ It may be possible to do "j.D > 236A~D > 214B~D > 236A~D"
+ Corona, Lightning Arrow and Shooting Star are all faster than before.
+ 214A~B looks as fast as Noel's Assault Through.
+ 214B/C~D's charging speed is surprisingly fast.
+ Makoto's 3C hit has a increased hitbox, she could go under Comet Cannon.
- j.2C can't be jump cancelled any longer.
- Makoto's hitbox when doing 3C is bigger, but she could go under Comet cannon.
- "3C > 2C > 2D > Comet Cannon" is possible on some characters, but not all of them.
- Comet Cannon's startup is slower.
- 5D > 2D > j.D > 236A~D can't be done.
- 2A feels a bit slower.
- Parry cancel gone (duh)
- You can't do "2B > 6A > 5B > 2B"
- You can't do "3C > 2C > 2D" anymore.
o After reaching its maxium height, Asteroid Vision B and C feels like deacelerating while falling down. (After that, something about Asteroid C being like j.2C, couldn't comprehend really well)
o 2B follow-up's timing after airthrow is looking a little slower.
o Perhaps Comet Cannon's hitbox is bigger now.
o "623C RC > 214C~D (LV3) > 236A~D (LV3) > 214B~D (LV3)" looks all faster than before. After Asteroid B, it seems like there is not enough time for you to use 236A~D again. (Corner only?)
o 2A looks like it's around 6F startup. (according to what Spark tested for us, it was 6F on startup already, so no change here)
o j.CC's hitbox has not changed at all.
o The hitstop reduction on her moves made her look more stylish.
o Her jump's "orbit" seems to have changed. Because of that, they way you use her j.CC seems to have changed a little.
o Corona Upper floats less now. (?)
o Like always, "6B > 214A~C~A" works on Tager and Hakumen.
o 5D has less disadvantage on block (?), all the other D moves remain the same.






TOP TIER AS FUCK :lol

 

[tsurugi no mai]

+ Corner: "5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 236A~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 5CC > j.C > j.B > dj.CC > 623C~D" deals 4800 damage, gains 58 meter.
+ Corner: "2A > 5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 236A~D > 6A > j.B > dj.B > 623C~D" deals around 3800 damage.
+ "5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 2C > 236A~D > 6A > j.C > j.B > dj.CC > Corona Upper" deals 5169 damage, gains 61 meter.
+ "5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 2C > 236A~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 5CC > j.C > j.B > dj.CC > Corona Upper" deals 5106 damage, gains 63 meter.
+ It may be possible to do "j.D > 236A~D > 214B~D > 236A~D"

What the hell does this even mean?

 

[sixteen-bit]

What the hell does this even mean?

A is light attack
B is medium attack
C is hard attack
D is drive (special) attack.
The numbers correspond to a number pad on a keyboard, i.e. "5B" means neutral standing medium attack and "214C" means down, down-back, back + hard attack.

 

[tsurugi no mai]

A is light attack, B is medium attack, C is Hard attack, and D is drive (special) attack.
The numbers correspond to a number pad on a keyboard, i.e. 5 B means neutral Medium attack and 214C means Down, downback, back + Hard attack.

So, how would you input one of those attacks on a PS3 controller?

 

[sixteen-bit]

So, how would you input one of those attacks on a PS3 controller?

It depends on how you map your controls.
In the default layout, A/light attack is Square, B/medium attack is Triangle, C/hard attack is Circle, and D/drive attack is Cross.

 

[h3ro]

So, how would you input one of those attacks on a PS3 controller?

You would input the attack buttons as Dementia posted while inputting the D-Pad or Analog movement described by the numeral annotation. 214D would be a quarter circle back motion on the Dpad or analog stick with D hit at the end of it.

 

[Prototype-03]

What the hell does this even mean?

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?8396-Terminology-Used-on-Dustloop-Defined

http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs/systemGuide/notation.html

 

[DY_nasty]

Hmm... To be honest, I always though BB is a much more complex game than ssf4. May I ask why you think SSF4 is more complex?

Complex, and more odd workings. I listed it above - the Focus Attack system in itself is more complex than anything in BB, there are way more option selects, and the much stricter timings on links. The auto-correct stuff works my nerves as well...

It irks me because I was a lot better at SSF4 than BB:CS. But that game just irks me to no end.

No just no LOL

Its aesthetics and the entry point - you can hop into SSF4 and feel content throwing a few FK and a fireball here and there and feel accomplished. In Blazblue, you don't even feel like you're playing the game right and with a flow until you're ratting off a few small combos. If you play someone who's good in SSF4, you'll most often leave the match feeling that someone is simply better than you. In BB, the game just doesn't even look the same when its being played by a high level player.

In BlazBlue, a recurring scenario is that of the jump out. For most characters, jumping out of pressure is a very viable option because of how fast they occur (some jumps are as short as 3F). Therefore, it's important to consider this option in your blockstrings and you must appropriately punish it. So, do you:

1. Anti-air, because it will stuff the jump (if your opponent doesn't jump, you are probably vulnerable and you leave yourself open to pressure and possibly a CH, depending on your character)?
2. IAD grab, because it will chase the jump and if your opponent doesn't jump there's frequently not much they can do about it (techable, and if you guess the direction of your opponent's jump incorrectly you will probably be hit; there are also many characters with options in the air that will beat this straight up, and if it's read by your opponent they can probably even beat it OTG)?
3. Jump and continue your pressure in the air, which will keep you in the advantageous position (your opponent may have a considerable frame advantage depending on what you used to end your pressure and some characters can punish this very hard; as well, if your opponent doesn't jump you are in a very awkward spot)?
4. Perform a standing grab as an OTG mix-up (if they jump, you're probably going to get hurt, and if they don't jump, there's a good chance that they're trying the same thing; this will also invariably put a hole in your string unless you do a purple grab, which will get teched everywhere but online)?
5. Backdash to reset to a neutral position due to the relative strength of your character's neutral position (this doesn't really net you any damage directly and is an outright bad option against zoning characters and characters with a huge neutral advantage; this can also be punished very hard no matter who you are)?
6. IAD backwards to create distance (pretty much the same as the previous option in terms of disadvantages except easier to chase for some characters and harder for others; if your opponent doesn't jump, you're in trouble)?
7. Forward dash to extend pressure (not an option for some characters, and if your opponent doesn't jump you are now at a disadvantage)?
8. Perform an empty jump to bait your opponent (can get you grabbed if read properly, and if your opponent doesn't jump you're likely just going to land into a block string)?
9. Stand there and do nothing (Relies entirely on your opponent not predicting this because if he does, at best you'll end up neutral)?

I came up with nine potential options that are not character specific (okay, so Tager can't dash) that are all viable (specifics varying by character) responses to an extremely common scenario. All of these options can be punished if they are read, and if you use them too much, an opponent will read them. How can this game be called simple? This also relies on you knowing that your opponent can jump out and your opponent knowing that he can jump out, both tidbits of knowledge that aren't exactly easy to come by.

I wasn't talking about jump mechanics, I was talking about jumping from scrub level to decent :lol

All good points though.

 

[Fugu]

I wasn't talking about jump mechanics, I was talking about jumping from scrub level to decent :lol

All good points though.

I know you weren't talking about jumping, but I was talking about a situation where BlazBlue may be seen as dauntingly complex. Also, have you ever seen a beginner/intermediate player grapple with a corner tech chase? (Jin's unblockable loop comes to mind because you basically have to read it before it happens; Litchi's 6C staff2 DP also produces simillar effects, as well as both of her meter okis) Hell, tech chasing in general is so much stronger in BlazBlue that it can make dropping your combos irrelevant if your opponent isn't strong enough to do something about it.

Complex, and more odd workings. I listed it above - the Focus Attack system in itself is more complex than anything in BB, there are way more option selects, and the much stricter timings on links. The auto-correct stuff works my nerves as well...

Focus attacks? Barrier, bursting, guard primers, air dashes, air blocking, RC.

Option selects don't necessarily make the game more complex; I would actually be more inclined to say the opposite because they make it easier to make a decision in a guessing game.
As for links, BlazBlue has so many dash/IAD links with very strict timing that this argument is irrelevant, especially considering that the average completed BlazBlue combo takes about four times as long to execute as the average SF combo. Many of Litchi's combos (5B 2C Itsuu A dash 6kote Haku delay Hatsu Ippatsu A Riichi A Riichi B delay 2D delay j.b delay j.c iad j.c etc.) contain several consecutive short links that vary in difficulty based on size and distance from the corner; while SF has the monopoly on occasional, extremely tight links, BlazBlue demands far more consistent execution based simply on how many timed motions you must throw out to complete a combo.

 

[DY_nasty]

I know you weren't talking about jumping, but I was talking about a situation where BlazBlue may be seen as dauntingly complex. Also, have you ever seen a beginner/intermediate player grapple with a corner tech chase? (Jin's unblockable loop comes to mind because you basically have to read it before it happens; Litchi's 6C staff2 DP also produces simillar effects, as well as both of her meter okis) Hell, tech chasing in general is so much stronger in BlazBlue that it can make dropping your combos irrelevant if your opponent isn't strong enough to do something about it.

I touched on that. I've said before that if there is a big enough gap in talent between two players in Blazblue, they won't even look like they're playing a similar game. Most of the differences are exaggerated though visually. Still, the game of techs and baiting is nothing new - and its left up entirely to the player in whats still the basic, eye-level, aspect of the game. Not so for SSF4, where many times the solution to the problem isn't even something a scrub can readily identify.

Focus attacks? Barrier, bursting, guard primers, air dashes, air blocking, RC.

Option selects don't necessarily make the game more complex; I would actually be more inclined to say the opposite because they make it easier to make a decision in a guessing game.
As for links, BlazBlue has so many dash/IAD links with very strict timing that this argument is irrelevant, especially considering that the average completed BlazBlue combo takes about four times as long to execute as the average SF combo. Many of Litchi's combos (5B 2C Itsuu A dash 6kote Haku delay Hatsu Ippatsu A Riichi A Riichi B delay 2D delay j.b delay j.c iad j.c etc.) contain several consecutive short links that vary in difficulty based on size and distance from the corner; while SF has the monopoly on occasional, extremely tight links, BlazBlue demands far more consistent execution based simply on how many timed motions you must throw out to complete a combo.

My biggest pet peeve is a game mechanic that isn't readily available to the user. If a guy is knocked down and has you beaten by holding 2PK before you even make another move - something is broken.

Air Dashing and air blocking aren't that much of a foreign concept. Rapid cancels, while a bit of an advanced concept, is a only a big deal for some characters.

And the combos in BBCS are nowhere near the bs of SSF4. (I understand you play Litchi, but thats your own fault ) They're essentially gatling combos until you get into much heavier stuff. You can't even jab out a 3 punch combo in SSF4 until you've put in a bit of practice.

Guard Primers are sitting there right in the middle of the screen - unlike the invisible dizzy meter as well. Just guessing how screwed your player is and their tolerance for it is up to the player.

Bursting = get out combo free card (use wisely). But its hardly the same as take damage, ignore impact, continue with shenanigans, don't take any chip damage until your flashy meter is through refilling - its a huge step backwards from parrying, and although it was flawed, it was a working solution.

 

[QisTopTier]

Bursting = get out combo free card (use wisely). But its hardly the same as take damage, ignore impact, continue with shenanigans, don't take any chip damage until your flashy meter is through refilling - its a huge step backwards from parrying, and although it was flawed, it was a working solution.

parrying? Oh blazblue kinda has that it's called instant blocking it builds meter and lets you recover from hit stun faster. You can't do it? You will get raped that's all. Oh and focus attacking is pretty shitty and gimmicky for the most part

 

[DY_nasty]

parrying? Oh blazblue kinda has that it's called instant blocking it builds meter and lets you recover from hit stun faster. You can't do it? You will get raped that's all.

that is true :/

 

[sixteen-bit]

How does instant block work? I assume you tap back in unison with your opponents moves and if the opponent's blockstring continues for a while the game will IB for you?

 

[Prototype-03]

that is true :/

don't worry. My version of IB is... "I SEE AN ATTACK COMING!!! IB THIS!!! WOOT GOT THE FIRST ONE!!! ok... gotta block next one... OK get reaa... OH FFUU IM EATING A COMBO"

How does instant block work? I assume you tap back in unison with your opponents moves and if the opponent's blockstring continues for a while the game will IB for you?

Basically, you'll have to press back as soon as the attack hits you. You'll flash white and your char will say something. It will give you less hit stun and like... 2% meter?

 

[sixteen-bit]

don't worry. My version of IB is... "I SEE AN ATTACK COMING!!! IB THIS!!! WOOT GOT THE FIRST ONE!!! ok... gotta block next one... OK get reaa... OH FFUU IM EATING A COMBO"



Basically, you'll have to press back as soon as the attack hits you. You'll flash white and your char will say something. It will give you less hit stun and like... 2% meter?

gotcha.
how viable is IBing online though?

 

[DY_nasty]

don't worry. My version of IB is... "I SEE AN ATTACK COMING!!! IB THIS!!! WOOT GOT THE FIRST ONE!!! ok... gotta block next one... OK get reaa... OH FFUU IM EATING A COMBO"

Trying to instant block to build meter with Lambda will let you know how much of G you really are.

Spoiler

I'm not that G

 

[DY_nasty]

gotcha.
how viable is IBing online though?

If you're on a good, stable connection its just fine. If there is some lag or the connection shows to be sketchy at points, abandon the idea immediately unless you like rolling dice and picking up pieces of your face.

 

[QisTopTier]

It will give you less hit stun and like... 2% meter?

No that would be reasonable it gives freaking 3% :lol

 

[Fugu]

I touched on that. I've said before that if there is a big enough gap in talent between two players in Blazblue, they won't even look like they're playing a similar game. Most of the differences are exaggerated though visually. Still, the game of techs and baiting is nothing new - and its left up entirely to the player in whats still the basic, eye-level, aspect of the game. Not so for SSF4, where many times the solution to the problem isn't even something a scrub can readily identify.

See how many scrubs can find a way out of the Jin unblockable reset without telling them a way out. Hell, tell them a way out and see if they can do it.

My biggest pet peeve is a game mechanic that isn't readily available to the user. If a guy is knocked down and has you beaten by holding 2PK before you even make another move - something is broken.

Okay but this (and invisible stagger) become irrelevant with practice; it is bad design that these mechanics are hidden from the player but to be honest with an extensive amount of practice, you should be familiar with these concepts anyway.

Air Dashing and air blocking aren't that much of a foreign concept.

They are if you only play Street Fighter.

Rapid cancels, while a bit of an advanced concept, is a only a big deal for some characters.

What? As far as I know there isn't a single character in the game that can't extend pressure with an RC.

And the combos in BBCS are nowhere near the bs of SSF4. (I understand you play Litchi, but thats your own fault ) They're essentially gatling combos until you get into much heavier stuff. You can't even jab out a 3 punch combo in SSF4 until you've put in a bit of practice.

For most characters the gatlings are so basic that they're irrelevant. If Litchi, Carl, Taokaka, Lambda, Arakune, Hakumen (someone help me out here, I don't play as a lot of characters) relied on their gatlings, they would have a very hard time breaking 2k.

Bursting = get out combo free card (use wisely). But its hardly the same as take damage, ignore impact, continue with shenanigans, don't take any chip damage until your flashy meter is through refilling - its a huge step backwards from parrying, and although it was flawed, it was a working solution.

As previously mentioned, parrying is in BB.

Bursting is always a threat. If you are emplying a combo and you are bursted out of it in a bad spot, the match can turn around very quickly. If you have a burst, it may be baited. If they have a burst and you bait it, they may not do it. Some characters can leverage a gold burst into a win pretty easily, so that too is a threat. It is not as simple as just being a get-out-of-jail-free card (dead angle/CA is closer to that); it means that as long as your opponent can burst, your zoning strength is limited. It means that if you go all in to put your opponent in the corner but forget to bait a burst, you're in trouble. It makes the game more complicated.

 

[Prototype-03]

My biggest pet peeve is a game mechanic that isn't readily available to the user. If a guy is knocked down and has you beaten by holding 2PK before you even make another move - something is broken.

Game doesn't have to be readily available to be good. Have you tried playing SC2 without playing SC1? You have NO idea what to do even if you have played other RTS'es since it's different from others.

In fact, if you have never played SF, quarter circle motions are hard, let alone a double quarter circle and all three punches/kicks. And FAs? That FA doesn't even make sense... why does it let you "parry" one special but not another?

Also, you may have to work your timing for two jabs, but any game that has two jabs as a combo is kinda... weird. BB may let you do jabs at will, but watch your dmg get halved and your combos dropped 'cause of proration. It's not as simple as you say it is.

Now don't get me wrong... I respect the fact that Capcom was able to bring back 2D fighters... In fact, I wouldn't be playing BB without that game since I started on SF4. However, the more I played BB, the less I understood the SF4 mechanics.

 

[QisTopTier]

JPN BBS Week 1 Tier List CS2

SS: Arakune
S: Noel, Makoto
A: Lambda-11
B: Jin, Bang, Valkenhayn, Carl, Tsubaki, Hakumen
C: Platinum, Mu-12, Tager, Rachel
D: Litchi, Hazama
Bottom: Taokaka, Ragna

THE RETURN OF BEEEEEEEEEES :lol

 

[DY_nasty]

JPN BBS Week 1 Tier List CS2

SS: Arakune
S: Noel, Makoto
A: Lambda-11
B: Jin, Bang, Valkenhayn, Carl, Tsubaki, Hakumen
C: Platinum, Mu-12, Tager, Rachel
D: Litchi, Hazama
Bottom: Taokaka, Ragna

THE RETURN OF BEEEEEEEEEES :lol

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Lambda, yes

Noel??? ???

And holy hell I want no part of Hakoto now.

 

[Fugu]

JPN BBS Week 1 Tier List CS2

SS: Arakune
S: Noel, Makoto
A: Lambda-11
B: Jin, Bang, Valkenhayn, Carl, Tsubaki, Hakumen
C: Platinum, Mu-12, Tager, Rachel
D: Litchi, Hazama
Bottom: Taokaka, Ragna

THE RETURN OF BEEEEEEEEEES :lol

So Litchi is where she was in CT. Works for me.

Also this tier list is made of bunk, game has been live for two days, etc.

 

[DY_nasty]

Some of Lambda's new stuff has me kind of skeptical though. A lot of stuff is centered around 236B/C/D, gravity, and throws... Thats all nice and good, but its not like a too many good players are going to get caught in the face mid-screen with any of it. Maybe it'll make more sense when I see it in action. Surely there're gonna be some BBCS2 tournaments going on soon...

 

[kiunchbb]

JPN BBS Week 1 Tier List CS2

SS: Arakune
S: Noel, Makoto
A: Lambda-11
B: Jin, Bang, Valkenhayn, Carl, Tsubaki, Hakumen
C: Platinum, Mu-12, Tager, Rachel
D: Litchi, Hazama
Bottom: Taokaka, Ragna

THE RETURN OF BEEEEEEEEEES :lol

So the balance is even worst than CS1?!?!

Noel S tier? Finally it is my turn to tier whore. What a sad sad day for Taokaka and Ragna, they were interesting characters.

I am starting to think Arcsys doesn't understand their game, or may be they are counting on the online patching function of their new machine? Or may be I conclude a little too early.

 

[SolarPowered]

All of this activity came out of nowhere and we're in the community forum now. I've got a lot of reading to do.

 

[sixteen-bit]

BlazBlue: Continuum Shift II |OT| BACK OF THE BUS, RAGNA!

 

[Fugu]

So the balance is even worst than CS1?!?!

This depends on the variance between SS and bottom. The gap might not be that large and the tier distinctions may be small.

 

[Infinite Justice]

JPN BBS Week 1 Tier List CS2

SS: Arakune
S: Noel, Makoto
A: Lambda-11
B: Jin, Bang, Valkenhayn, Carl, Tsubaki, Hakumen
C: Platinum, Mu-12, Tager, Rachel
D: Litchi, Hazama
Bottom: Taokaka, Ragna

THE RETURN OF BEEEEEEEEEES :lol

*until more game time and possible list changes.*

 

[QisTopTier]

I'm just going to say this now, Tao and Hazama will be A tier at the LEAST that is all

 

[Fugu]

It is flabberghasting how sparse information on Litchi is. Of all of the videos uploaded to youtube, not a single one of them that I've seen contains Litchi footage and all of the information regarding her changes were general things we already knew (no wallbounce and no cancelling into itsuu).

 

[sixteen-bit]

I'm just going to say this now, Tao and Hazama will be A tier at the LEAST that is all

I hope so!

 

[DY_nasty]

Some BBCS2 vids are up on youtube
Part 1
ari ( hazama ) vs kudan ( hakumen ) [kick doesn't beat everything anymore, rejoice]
asuka ( Platinum) vs nanana ( hakumen ) [hakumen looks good]
gagaga ( jin ) vs rasuneru ( makoto ) [Q's mak is better]
nanashi ( arakune ) vs taimu ( Lambda ) [dat air backdash]
danna (Valk ) vs feito chuu ( jin )
Part 2
Luciferin ( noel) vs kudan ( hakumen ) [optic barrel putting in work???]
gagaga ( jin ) vs sukima ( tager) [this tager is free]
joshu ( makoto ) vs tamanegi ( platinum ) [plat seems like a handful....]
aiueo ( hazama ) vs koko ( ragna ) [trollzama lives]

many more on the sidebar, i'm much too lazy and tired to post them all right now. suffice to say, lambda looks pretty fuckin gdlk

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I welcome back bees if only to troll trollzama. THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS BEES!

 

[ZealousD]

THE RETURN OF BEEEEEEEEEES :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU

 

[Teknopathetic]

Lambda-11 A-Tier?

Could this be a Teknopathetic comeback?!

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Lambda-11 A-Tier?

Could this be a Teknopathetic comeback?!

GUTS > Tiers!

BE MORE HOT BLOODED!

 

[akachan ningen]

Lambda-11 A-Tier?

Could this be a Teknopathetic comeback?!

She was already really good in CS.

 

[SephirothRK]

Hazama plays like ass , will adjust when update comes.

 

[remz]

Hazama plays like ass , will adjust when update comes.

Noticed he seems... strange from a lot of the vids.

 

[QisTopTier]

Hazama plays like ass , will adjust when update comes.

He's not stiff like a board anymore he's all flash now, that's a good thing :lol He's also A SHIT TON FASTER overall

Lambda-11 A-Tier?

Could this be a Teknopathetic comeback?!

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?8432-BB-CS-Match-Up-Chart

She was never bad to begin with, outside the top 3 should could pretty much man handle the cast. They just made her way way more technical. Her gameplay style is still pretty similar in cs2 heavy air back dash abuse and cancels she just is able to use gravity wells now again abusively like before.

Also that chart is pretty damn funny cause that's almost exactly the order I put the characters in when the game came out XD *not mak she wasn't out yet* xD I can analyze arc games too damn good, just give me the data on paper! :lol

BTW the new announcer is horrible.... maCOWto moooo

 

[DY_nasty]

More is up

Lambda is lookin so tasty right now.

Its not in this vid in particular (4 more on the sidebar), but 236A can crossup now. Also, C attacks got beefed up a lot. 236D is a lot more useful now too.

Edit: Wow. I love the new Tsubaki

Edit2: DAT MU