IFireflyl
Gold Member
Nerd.
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Blizzard VP On Bringing World of Warcraft to Console "Of course we're talking about it, we're Microsoft now"
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Nerd.
Laieon
Member
I LOVE AoE 4! Great game.
The vast majority of the existing community is, at best, doing LFR or normal, so realistically it wouldn't do "big damage" at all. Anyone doing M+ or higher tier raids are a minority.
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Might well be the worst post I’ve seen here in a while. Not every game is an FPS or MMO. Tons of people are getting to play together in Minecraft, Roblox et al. My guys are having the time of their lives playing Street Fighter 6 between PC and console, and even games like FiFA.
Even before Xbox fans were pushing cross-console play, PlayStation owners were happily playing SFV across PC and console.
Aces High
Gold Member
That's not true at all. Go read forums for any crossplay game. People complain about different netcodes on different platforms, low-level console operating systems handling packages much more efficiently than windows, activated cheats to overcome differences in controls, etc. I've never ever heard any gamer say "Good god, I finally can play with people from *insert random platform*". Crossplay is a feature pushed by Microsoft. PC gamers never wanted it. PlayStation never wanted it. It was Microsoft who pushed it because there were not enough active players in Xbox online multiplayer games.
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Krappadizzle
Member
You can literally go find anything to confirm your bias. Crossplay is an idea not a product. Crossplay is a great idea, it's execution isn't always great. All the other bullshit you said about it is simple console warring and whining.
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Mortisfacio
Member
Crossplay works for some games. Blizzard wise, Diablo for example works great because control schemes for a controller are actually good. On PC, I majority play with a controller for example as it just feels good and I can sit back and relax. Especially since they finally fixed the horse speed on controller issue. I still do inventory management with mouse + keyboard, though. Roblox and Minecraft are other good examples. WoW, to play well, often requires packed hotbars. Especially in PvP. My actionbars are full of spells + targeting and situational macros. I at no point want to PvP with a teammate using a controller. They could be on mouse and keyboard and just be a bad player, but you're not going to be competitive with a controller and I don't want to have to waste my time playing with those people. As long as there's options like "Queue solo shuffle - M + KB only" then I'm fine with it.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
This. It is even less profitable to do it now assuming they keep it on Xbox.
Aces High
Gold Member
It is not. Crossplay destroys true diversity in online gaming by faking options.
We have different platforms with different strengths and weaknesses. A game that is build for the strengths of a single platform can be a better game. We see this all the time in PC online multiplayer games that are usually superior to console multiplayer games due to the unrestrictive nature and the communication possibilites of the platform.
On consoles we can have superior single player experiences due to the high software optimization potential.
Crossplay ignores the strengths of the different platforms and levels the experience down to the weaknesses. That has negative impact on creative output. Crossplay is a business decision, not a creative one.
Gaming is in an awful state because of business decisions. Companies are making more money every year, but gaming experiences are getting worse and worse.
This has nothing to do with console warring at all only because I voice critique towards your favorite brand.
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AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Not happening.
Happy to eat crow on this if it ever does, but people have been suggesting this for literally well over a decade at this point. There's already controller support baked in for weirdos.
But to release it as a console experience creates an expectation of user experience. The raids/dungeons in modern WoW are simply not designed to be ran on a console, they almost require third party addons to play at Mythic level and controller players would get absolutely flattened in PVP against KBM. It would be horrible. You'd be kicked out of groups the second anyone realised your were a controller player.
Happy to eat crow on this if it ever does, but people have been suggesting this for literally well over a decade at this point. There's already controller support baked in for weirdos.
But to release it as a console experience creates an expectation of user experience. The raids/dungeons in modern WoW are simply not designed to be ran on a console, they almost require third party addons to play at Mythic level and controller players would get absolutely flattened in PVP against KBM. It would be horrible. You'd be kicked out of groups the second anyone realised your were a controller player.
March Climber
Member
This is not a crossplay issue. This is a developer issue. You don’t hear co-op/PvE-only game communities whining about crossplay, only PvP audiences and mainly those from the shooter communities.
JMZ555
Member
I have played ff14 on controller for years. It works perfectly and is my preferred way to play.
From memory though doesn't WOW have much more button bloat?
I'd source it out to a team to create a ground up UI system for WOW classic first. Have the game part of game pass with console only fresh servers.
Then once its improved to the excellent standard , open it up to retail and crossplay.
From memory though doesn't WOW have much more button bloat?
I'd source it out to a team to create a ground up UI system for WOW classic first. Have the game part of game pass with console only fresh servers.
Then once its improved to the excellent standard , open it up to retail and crossplay.
Aces High
Gold Member
You hear competitive game communities whining. WoW is a competitive game. Being better than the guy next to you is the primary carrot in the game.
If Bloodkillerx can't get his itemlvl 9000 weapon because Nancy wipes the group with her slow gamepad movement skills then people will complain. It is a bad situation for both Bloodkillerx and Nancy.
My brother is a huge fighting game fan. I don't know exactly what's going on as I only like MK and he plays mostly SF and GG, but he hates crossplay like crazy. So it's not only shooters where people complain.
People who are happy now about crossplay because they can finally do online matches against real humans on their Xbox again will look stupid when they get teabagged by Zoomers that play Modern Warfare 6 on their iPhones.
MScarpa
Member
IMO bundling it with GP or something like that would get a huge boost from player base. The game is still pretty popular. I would start playing again if it came to console.
LordBlodgett
Member
I have been saying this for a while but having a "cheap" Gamepass bundle for WOW makes a ton of sense. Offer something like $5 more than Gamepass ultimate to get both your WOW and Gamepass subscriptions. I think this would convert many people who would love to get Gamepass for PC for just a slight increase over what they pay now just for WOW, and even more if you had the game running on console. WOW subscribers are some of the stickiest subscribers in the world too, I have several friends who still have subscriptions but rarely play.
You’re conflating crossplay across consoles with crossplay between console and PC. It’s also crazy to claim PlayStation and PC gamers don’t want it, when FIFA and Street Fighter players near unanimously support it.
Sony happily advertised PC-Console crossplay, and their efforts to stymie cross-console play was always about not providing a leg up to Xbox. Not necessarily about being opposed to PS-PC crossplay.
whether or not MS pushed it, it’s a clear fact that cross play is a pro-consumer feature and I’m glad it’s becoming standard.
March Climber
Member
Maybe old WoW. I’m not sure when you last played but times have changed, including difficulty. Actually, I suspect many here are applying these issues to a version of WoW from years ago, but I’m trying not to make heavy assumptions.
Then those people will just not bother
. They can simply not invite the Xbox icon players to their team. There are high performance guilds in other crossplay MMOs that do this, and there are those who don’t. The good news is that both those MMOs and especially WoW, have a huge enough playerbase to where this literally doesn’t matter. I don’t know why you’re pointing towards the high performance players specifically and are using them as an example as to why things won’t work. These players were already extremely picky about raid groups to begin with so not much is changing. That never affected the rest of the playerbase.
Need more context here. What exactly is he complaining about?
March Climber
Member
Honestly this has become another thread where I’m extremely thankful that GAF posters aren’t in charge of the industry. We literally just had a doom and gloom thread about Fortnite before they just recently had a huge boom in playercount. So many out of touch and bad takes back to back here.
hinch7
Member
Welp good luck finding end game content on controllers, never mind playing them. Can already see mods being released to recognise controllers used. No chance of being invited in all but the most casual guilds.
May work if they released specific console only servers. And dungeons/bosses and mechanics tuned for them.
May work if they released specific console only servers. And dungeons/bosses and mechanics tuned for them.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I dont play WOW, but it sounds like that game has a million buttons and commands to do which i dont see how it can play on a gamepad effectively.
Then again, Diablo 3 and 4 play great on a gamepad. I didnt think a twitchy PC based game could play so smooth on console, but it is. You'll just have to sacrifice some speed using gamepad combo buttons or a UI wheel instead of keyboard controls.
Then again, Diablo 3 and 4 play great on a gamepad. I didnt think a twitchy PC based game could play so smooth on console, but it is. You'll just have to sacrifice some speed using gamepad combo buttons or a UI wheel instead of keyboard controls.
Mortisfacio
Member
It does, if you want to play well, especially in PvP.
All this button bloat down bottom is your standard rotation + cooldown based abilities. All those question marks on the right are focus target and other macro based ability combos for certain situations. Notice repeats, such as the closed eye icon mapped to the "y" key down bottom, but also on the right side. One is to cast it on your target while the other is to cast on your focus target. You're not going to compete to the level you can with M + Kb on a controller. An MMO with a simplified toolbar and less button bloat, sure, but WoW is not one of these games. I don't want to be stuck in an arena with a guy standing around going through a radial menu trying to find his macro'd abilities. Just let me opt out of playing with those people.
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Mattdaddy
Gold Member
I have no clue how they would make this work without dramatically changing the core gameplay lol. There might be a couple specs you could make work with specific context, like theres a feral druid streamer that plays arena on a controller and I think he's made it to like Gladiator... but even then his setup looks really complex and he's dedicated a lot of time to making his schtick... I cant imagine casual players could be fucked to figure that out.
Yeah theres just too many buttons man they'd have to come out with a wow-lite or something.
Yeah theres just too many buttons man they'd have to come out with a wow-lite or something.
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Krappadizzle
Member
Blizzard barely gives a shit about PVP. MOST of the player base in general is almost always doing PVE content anyways, whether that's hard mode versions of giant raids or runs for transmogs/collecting/pets battles/raid gear. WoW isn't a PVP focused game and hasn't been for a very long time. It's an option, but it's far from the majority of players. I'm sure Blizzard would love to change that in some form, but it's not a factor affecting their intentions/development moving forward in any real way.
There's is button bloat and overall, the game in general is just bloated. There's def. other major issues to address before worrying about button rotations for PVP players that want to compete at the very high end of PVP.
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Ammogeddon
Member
Hey circa 2007 wants it’s thread back.
CamHostage
Member
Do you ever go read forums expecting anything but complaints?
How often do people stop what they're enjoying to go onto forums and post, "I enjoy this!"
It's how gaming should be, really. Call of Duty or Street Fighter or Forza or Fortnite or whatever is 'the game', and whatever you play it on (be it a console or a phone or a good PC or a bad PC) is the player's run-quality box of choice, but the game is still 'the game'.
Not that execution has not left a lot to be desired in many cases, unfortunately...
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CamHostage
Member
There's already a situation to contend with there thanks to SteamDeck and the boom of handheld PCs. (However, WoW isn't on Steam and doesn't run Linux; sideloading is an option but it's probably not a hot issue for Blizzard just yet. Also Deck and most portaPCs have touchscreens, despite the interface being miniscule, so that goes beyond just a controller.)
WoW mods like ConsolePort and AzeriteUI and DynamicCam and Immersion help give the game more visibility for what would work in a console version. It's still a potentially confounding number of keystroke combinations depending on how you set up your macros (although console MMO players are probably used to having a bazillion combos to get to all their spells and commands,) but Steam Deck players have been giving it a thumbs-up as a way to play.
(Also, BTW, Xbox allows for K&M in supported games. Still not ideal though, since most would be playing Xbox on a couch instead of at a desk.)
What you don't want is for Blizzard to "dumb down" the gameplay to meet the console players' access level, and that's a fair concern. FFXI and FFIX were both made for simultaneous console/PC play, so while the player base doesn't seem to be miffed over being mixed there, they never had it different. Not many other MMOs have come over to console, those that have have AFAIK still focused on their core PC community and graft on console controls as best as possible to mixed results, but WoW is such an institution that any changes would be questioned, while the prospect of making money off the console space now has a higher demand from the owner (not that Activision Blizzard wouldn't have liked having that money added to their take.)
WoW though is so old and operated on so many different levels by players of widely varying skills on vastly different PCs and with a range of mods applied, and with long-term players so intrenched in their processes and groups, I'm kind of surprised there's so much pushback of potentially more players. The game has growing pains either way every time it draws a new player base in, and it's up to Blizzard to design well-rounded mechanics so that everybody can enjoy at different phases of play. There are generally ways of playing with people you like and are at your level, and if you're raiding for itemlvl 9000 weapons, I'm not sure why the players you'd surround yourself with would suck at the game with whatever control device they've decided to play with?
I generally think this is still never going to happen (...what's the rush?) even with MS eyeing the possibilities, but I'm not seeing that this would ruin WoW if it ever did. It would just have to be done well and mindfully.
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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Release on consoles and then add Native Controller Support on the PC version.
Then maybe I'd actually play Retail WoW.
I guess something stopping WoW on consoles is add-ons/mods but the simple solution is to just ban all addons/mods.
Then maybe I'd actually play Retail WoW.
I guess something stopping WoW on consoles is add-ons/mods but the simple solution is to just ban all addons/mods.
hinch7
Member
Worst thing they can is dumb down the experience for accessibility. Which they'd have to do if they design a game around controllers. They'd lose a lot more subscibers than they can get.
They already have enough on their plate to satisfy the core player base for WoW. Never mind the casual and console players.
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CamHostage
Member
There is nobody at Blizzard under the impression that they have all the players right now that they will ever want/need and that the future is just in making sure nobody they have right now ever leaves. Retention is an important part of the strategy as it moves into the future, and the big spenders are a key demographic to protect against any other WoW development, but they will never give up experimenting with ways of attracting new players.
Freeman76
Member
Its no more complicated than FF14 or BDO. They work fine. There might be a lot of skills in WoW but you dont use more than around 12 of them really, other than situational skills that rarely need using. Utility skills could be on a pull up ring like a weapon select, whereas your hotbar skills could easily be mapped to controller buttons. I played Warlock for years and could easily manage with 12 available skills.
Targetting etc could be a problem, especially for healers, but they managed it in FF14 without a problem.
Controls arent the issue in and of itself, its more how they can make controls as efficient as KB+M, which will seperate the playerbase and cause a whole other set of problems.
hinch7
Member
The grass isn't always greener. We've seen how fickle customers and gamers can be especialy when it comes to live sevice games and MMO's. I mean have you read the Blizzard forums. There'd be a riot lol.
As I said they'd lose millions of subs if they intergrate console players into WoW. Considering they have half the amount of subscribers left, it wouldn't be smart to piss off your remaining customers.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I’d prefer World of StarCraft come to consoles first.
Mapping 5 commands into one button intelligently, unless they market it with the elite controller or just supporting mouse and keyboard which is probably the case cause it's a complex game.
Aces High
Gold Member
Here's what will happen:
Microsoft suits get paid to increase revenue. So they're gonna do the math: if a console port of WoW will make 2m players quit but introduce 3m new players to the game, they will force it through because they will see it as a net increase in monthly subscribers.
Microsoft suits own Blizzard so they can do with it whatever they want. And since Microsoft suits don't play these games themselves, they don't understand the consequences of their decisions outside of excel sheets. Let's be real: if they knew their stuff they would be succesful on their own without having to buy entire publishers.
Once these 3m console players understand that 99% of all M+ and PvP endgame content is dominated by PC players, they will start to complain and many of them will cancel their subs. The primary goal of WoW has always been to equip your character with the best possible gear and mounts possible. But Xbox characters will be inferior to PC characters all the time even though they pay the same subscription price. After the 1000th easy mode dungeon run these players will get bored and they will be unhappy that they can't do the content with the best rewards.
That's when the development team will get under pressure because they can't afford to lose these 3m console players because they already made 2m PC players quit and they need the revenue for their new Microsoft bosses. What will they do? Activate cheat modes for console players? Dumb down content? Put the best items in the real money shop? They will do whatever is necessary and eventually the game will be a watered down experience and complete rubbish.
And before people start again with "but but but FF14!!!": Like other have said multiple times in this thread, FF14 is a completely different situation because they grew both their console and PC audiences simultanously. The entire game design and every gameplay mechanic was developed with both gamepad and m+kb controls in mind from the very start.
A comparable situation would be if Square Enix got bought by Apple and suits publicly discussed porting FF14 to iPhones.
killatopak
Member
This would require serious overhaul as most bosses are designed around 3rd party UI mods. Maybe they can start on Classic WoW?