I am sure police need improving almost everywhere. Canada is no different.
If you want to compare Canadian and US police though, Canadian police killed 23 people in 2015. American police killed 1140.
Canada has about 1/9th the population of the US.
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BLM Activists have a Sit-In at Toronto Pride to Fight for a More Inclusive Pride.
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
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I am sure police need improving almost everywhere. Canada is no different.
If you want to compare Canadian and US police though, Canadian police killed 23 people in 2015. American police killed 1140.
Canada has about 1/9th the population of the US.
It actually makes me a bit sad, seeing as many police around during pride, in pride colours. There were these little vehicles some drove in that were covered in pride stuff. I saw one officer giving a dude a piggy back ride. It feels weird suddenly thinking they shouldn't have representation during pride. They were all over the place, being very nice, polite and there to keep the peace and keep people safe... I don't want to adopt the same relationship with the police here that people have with them in the US.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Hate group? Got some stories to share about the Ontario police?
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Doesn't police exclusion just encourage the Us vs Them mentality?
This is what the police float looked like in 2015
Some of their activites at previous pride parades
Some of their activites at previous pride parades
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
This is what the police float looked like in 2015
Some of their activites at previous pride parades
Holy shit! Is that pepper spray?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Couldn't you just have looked up this information before proposing it? They look like locals based on basic searches.
I believe the request for the removal of the police float in the parade is from recent protests that BLM TO have had at the Toronto HQ after the death of Andrew Loku
As far as I can tell, the request is just the removal of the float, not removal of police from the parade venue at all. You couldn't remove police presence from such a big event anyways.
It's always possible that people fighting for a good cause could have bad ideas or bad proposals, one doesn't exclude the other. I don't know enough history about the various groups here to make an informed opinion.
I will say that the exclusion of mentioning Black Transmen is odd. Saw the exclusion on Twitter too.
As an aside: This tweet at the top of BLM Toronto's twitter gave me a headache lol
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's pretty darn cute.
That said, it's unfortunate that BLM-TO feels that way about the Toronto police (or police in general). I'd like to see them meet with the Toronto police and work to establish trust between one another.
That said, it's unfortunate that BLM-TO feels that way about the Toronto police (or police in general). I'd like to see them meet with the Toronto police and work to establish trust between one another.
They are committing the dastardly deed of tossing dihydrogen monoxide at the bystanders.
It is a chemical that is known to cause asphyxiation and death in large quantities.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I lived 2 blocks from pride, and cops just stood around hanging out watching literally naked people dancing in the street, joking around with everyone. Plenty of cops are openly gay.
I'm pretty sure nobody saying the cops are bad in Toronto in this thread actually lives there. Like, the chief of police is black. People complained about racial profiling and they actually stopped. The force is incredibly racially diverse.
There has been one police shooting in the last two years, and it was a guy in a mental home who ran at them with a hammer - and witnesses backed them up. That's the one that BLM are protesting, and it almost feels like they're doing it out of habit. There have already been civilian government investigations that found no wrongdoing. The government has already bent over backwards by releasing 10 pages of the report, something they never do. BLM want the full unredacted report released but it can't be, because the Special Investigations Unit isn't allowed to release information that will identify witnesses.
Killings by law enforcement are so rare in Canada you can fit them all on one wikipedia list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_Canada
Keep in mind Toronto is the third largest city between the US & Canada. Bigger than Chicago or Houston. If Toronto has a force that represents a problem, literally the whole world is fucked.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The problem from what I read was that they didn't release witness testimony even just with the names removed (which is allowed by the law). Problem is that witness testimony is bad so cameras should always be on person.
It wasn't really a mental home, but an apartment building leased by the Canadian Mental Health Association which provides apartments for people with mental illness. The bad thing was that apparently the police were not aware of this fact. Andrew Loku was also drunk which might have made things more problematic.
The Toronto Police Force isn't perfect but I don't think their exclusion from such an important and positive event is a very good way to go about this.
I agree with their other demands but this sticks out to me as being rather unnecessary and feels anti-police for the sake of being anti-police.
While I do appreciate BLM's persistence, it just feels misguided in this instance.
I agree with their other demands but this sticks out to me as being rather unnecessary and feels anti-police for the sake of being anti-police.
While I do appreciate BLM's persistence, it just feels misguided in this instance.
Prototype Viktor
Member
Canadian pepper spray that comes in soaker form. Super soakers are in talks of being banned
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Right, I don't know what the actual term for that sort of place is.
Yeah, the Canadian Mental Health Association isn't allowed to provide that information, they're legally bound to protect their clients' privacy. They also just wanted the house to be anonymous in the neighbourhood for their clients' sake.
Not sure how to feel about this. I was there, actually, and I find myself very much trusting of the police here in Ontario, specifically the Toronto and Peel regions.
The last thing I would want is a sowing of an anti-police sentiment, because our situation is a vast improvement over our neighbors down south.
The last thing I would want is a sowing of an anti-police sentiment, because our situation is a vast improvement over our neighbors down south.
Seems more attention seeking than anything.
If both these groups are so interested in progress and equality, then why didnt they arranged a meeting beforehand to make this march more inclusive?
Theres only so much staging a protest or sit is going to achieve before people start switching off.
If both these groups are so interested in progress and equality, then why didnt they arranged a meeting beforehand to make this march more inclusive?
Theres only so much staging a protest or sit is going to achieve before people start switching off.
ClosingADoor
Member
Nothing wrong with protesting, but did they try to get together with the organisation beforehand and sort their problems out? Since they agreed to all the demands pretty quickly, was there even a problem?
Seems strange to stop police from having their own float. Why exclude them? Shouldn't we strive for better LGTB representation in the police department and this contributes to that?
Seems strange to stop police from having their own float. Why exclude them? Shouldn't we strive for better LGTB representation in the police department and this contributes to that?
Idk that's a good point and I won't even pretend to know the relationship between the police force in Ontario and lgbt community there. However if the police are responsible for the killings of and violence towards black lgbt people in there then I'm not surprised if an activist group feels away about them having a float at a pride parade.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
The policy about police is certainly more exclusive than inclusive.
Dandy Lyin
Member
It feels like BLM-TO is looking Southward and screaming "ME TOO!"
And by what metric is this to be measured? When will police officers be "good enough" to participate in Pride, and who will be making this decision?
You don't have to love the cops, but as a gay man living in the GTA, I call absolute bullshit on excluding them from the parade. If the black community has a beef with the Toronto police, then please sort it out in a way that doesn't senselessly hurt members of the LGBT community.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I wish people would at least google...I don't know, anything before posting stuff like that. I posted the list of police shootings in Canada above. Straight or gay, black or white, nobody's getting shot in Toronto by police at all.
Church street, the main gay neighbourhood, is totally left alone by the police. BLM just have a blanket "we don't like cops" policy absorbed from the US, and Toronto Pride caved. It's embarrassing and a backwards move for the whole city. The very best thing about Pride is that it already is something for everyone. Everyone goes, whatever orientation or colour. Nobody was being excluded by anyone. It honestly feels like local activists using one of the city's biggest events to garner attention.
I never said the cops in Canada were in fact systematically killing black people just that if it was happening then I wouldn't be surprised BLM TO are not comfortable with them having a float there. I also admitted that yes I was ignorant on this issue and agreed with the poster I quoted who said excluding the officers may not be the best idea for that community. Like Trojita said it may be possible for a good organization that have good intentions to sometimes suggest not so good policy. Either way this looks like a win to me.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
You're not the only one doing it in this thread, but it's bad because it's signal-boosting for things that aren't actually happening.
I don't think I'm doing any of that and I'm not going to apologize for the post
LiveFromKyoto
Member
"I know my opinion has no basis, but here, let me triple down on it."
You must lack reading comprehension
Dusk Soldier
Member
I feel this way too.
chaobreaker
Member
The thread on /r/toronto makes it sound like BLM TO literally halted the parade and forced PrideTO to sign their demands under duress. Sound like it was all planned from the beginning and was taken positively.
BLM TO is really despised on /r/toronto. The sub is a shithole, though. One of the worst city subs on reddit IMO.
BLM TO is really despised on /r/toronto. The sub is a shithole, though. One of the worst city subs on reddit IMO.
It was planned ahead. BLM informed PrideTO that it would be happening well beforehand.
Anyways, hopefully they can compromise on the police float. I don't think they should be completely gone, but maybe having something like six of them like this year may be a bit much.
Well, Pride is now denying that they have agreed to the police ban (thankfully), even though they signed the demand list agreeing to ban police, lol.
Pride Toronto denies it has agreed to ban police floats from future parades
BLM now backtracking saying that the police ban was only intended for police in uniform (why?), but officers are still free to participate as citizens.
In an earlier defense of their demands, BLM also threw out the "wrong side of history" argument, although the original quotes from the article were deleted when it was updated at 1:35 and just again at 1:40 (I don't know if people can recover old versions of the articles or not).
Complete nonsense.
Pride Toronto denies it has agreed to ban police floats from future parades
BLM now backtracking saying that the police ban was only intended for police in uniform (why?), but officers are still free to participate as citizens.
In an earlier defense of their demands, BLM also threw out the "wrong side of history" argument, although the original quotes from the article were deleted when it was updated at 1:35 and just again at 1:40 (I don't know if people can recover old versions of the articles or not).
Complete nonsense.
I don't care about the police not being able to have a float. They're not saying the police can't be there, just that they can't have a float, right? And if they want to be nonuniformed citizens, they probably could have a civic group of gay policemen float with zero complaints from anyone.
so true.
While the situation here is not nearly as bad as south of the border, we have our own issues too. It might seem weird looking in from the U.S. but we simply expect better.
This is very troubling, I like seeing the police, in uniform, marching in solidarity. It shows institutionally that they support Pride. I don't support the idea of telling a uniformed gay officer then can't march in their uniform on a day that is supposed to be about inclusiveness.
I agree with this. There are obvious concerns to be addressed about police responses, but making demands of Pride seems an odd way to go about it.
This is what the police float looked like in 2015
Some of their activites at previous pride parades
Look at all that hate from the police.
What did he mean by this?
Member
What if a ambulance had to get through that parade protest? BLM is admirable but they need to be more considerate of LBGT ambulances and people going to fireworks
metalslimer
Member
why not try to be more inclusive?
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Excluding the Toronto Police from the Pride Parade seems counterproductive. Thankfully it doesn't look like anyone is taking that part seriously.
Bearjewpiter
Neo Member
I don't see it linked yet so I will. A letter from a gay Toronto cop on how he feels about the situation.
Lots of good things said but I think the last line is the most important.
(Read: an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind)
Lots of good things said but I think the last line is the most important.
(Read: an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind)
What did he mean by this?
Member
Doubl post now filled with new, original content.
His reading comprehension is fine. Your inability to discern facts is the problem.
Good that they got shit done. I dont agree with the removal of the police from the pride parade though, especially after theyve been more more progressive in recent months(the chief apologizing for the bath house raid for example). I would at least give them a chance since they do seem to be getting better and police are at least seeming to be held more accountable for their actions as well if that Sammy Yatim conviction was anything to go by.
This is coming from someone that generally hates the police btw.
This is coming from someone that generally hates the police btw.
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