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[jim-jam bongs]

What you call "free marketing" i call informing fellow forum users about where to find the elements of the game they are most intrested in.

No other images? what if i want to know what the game looks like without going to google? its the same complaint some have about release dates.

Link to previews? Link to videos? Link to screens? All the pre-release material is bullshot anyway, so why actually help publishers to create an unrealistic view of their game?

 

[Koodo]

Damn, that Assassin Creed's OP is a glorious stanning masterpiece. :bow

 

[state-of-the-art]

The AssCreed OT is atrocious.

 

[renitou]

An OT should ideally be a place to create a community around a game, it's not meant to be free marketing.

Ad clicks make GAF money. Bloated threads draw in people that are wowed by artificial depth, that might click ads.

Follow the money!

 

[Barack Lesnar]

From the perspective of someone who really doesn't know anything about the series, it tells me jack squat. I get that the art is nice, and the new gameplay features sound kind of interesting out of context, but there's nothing at all that tells me why a bajillion people are hyping this game through the stratosphere. It doesn't have to be much, but what's the big hook? Why is this game so great?

And sticking the release date at the bottom of the post next to all of the platform logos no one ever looks at probably isn't a great idea either.

RE: the bolded

Ask yourself this... why would you go into an OT of a game that's the 4th in a series (a heavily story-focused one at that) if you know nothing about the series and want to learn more?

 

[NBtoaster]

The AC OT certainly looks very good, but it is overkill.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Name me one OT that is not Dark Souls or BF3 that has new people coming to it all the time after the first few weeks. The truth is they almost exclusively get a subcommunity of five to fifteen people who don't give a crap about what the OT says because they're talking to each other in the thread.

OTs shouldn't be a compendium of all the information that exists on the game because there are other sites whose only point is exactly to host that information. OTs should contain the bare essentials of what one needs to know on a game, like when it releases, a picture or two, what consoles it is on and a few distinguishing features, and then be updated for updates on the game. If you can keep this information, with updates, within a single post, then you probably have all the important information that currently exists for the game packed efficiently.

No one who's thinking "I missed this whole Assassin's Creed thing, I wonder what it is" will go read up on the AC: R thread to get that information. They'll google it or something. The people who'll read the OT are people who already know all the ridicously superfluous information in it. It's not worth the time people are taking.

Its their choice.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Ad clicks make GAF money. Bloated threads draw in people that are wowed by artificial depth, that might click ads.

Follow the money!

Personally, I would rather see GAF grow larger as a result of it being somewhere that isn't all about style over substance, which I believe is a pretty big part of why it's as big as it is today.

 

[RoboPlato]

Have any of the mods or Evilore weighed in on this? I'm curious to hear what they think.

 

[iNvid02]

There's a difference between an OT being informative and it being pornography for fans of the franchise to circle jerk to.

apart from the extras section which is about the guide, soundtrack and merchandise, the rest is all needed. the series is pretty complex, some people play all the games and have no clue whats
going on. this is also the last chapter for 2 major characters so a recap on the previous games i perfectly justified. people saying "pr fluff pr fluff" dont know what the fuck they are talking about.

 

[Rapstah]

Its their choice.

For every bloated post-everything-about-series OP being posted there's a good one full of only relevant information on the game not being posted.

 

[Littleberu]

the series is pretty complex, some people play all the games and have no clue whats
going on. this is also the last chapter for 2 major characters so a recap on the previous games i perfectly justified.

And you think an official thread first post is where they should get that information from?

 

[Alex Connolly]

Agree completely. If it were up to me the rules for OTs would be:

- One banner and no other images. If you can't explain what the game is all about with words then you shouldn't be making the OT.
- Only one post, with the second reserved so that the OP can add patch notes/links as they come out.
- Zero marketing information; no links to amazon, no advertising of preorder bonuses from retailers etc.

An OT should ideally be a place to create a community around a game, it's not meant to be free marketing.



They can still serve this purpose just as well without being advertorials.

I agree, especially having put together a couple of OTs, although I've learned from my RUSE effort that there's really no need for such a huge amount of writing on factions.

Blacklight: Tango Down
Lost Planet 2
Off-Road Drive - This one is a victim of formatting and a little too much in the way of pictures, but there's not much more to the game than its driving model and looking good, so I dunno.
RUSE
Sword of the Stars 2

Information Thread that will eventually morph into OTs due to the majority of NeoGAF not giving two hoots on account of taste.
Men of War: Vietnam
Wargame: European Escalation

Agreed, as always, with ghst. I appreciate the artistic commitment, but holy hell, if it doesn't come off as a shaft-stripping PR jerk-off.

 

[Koodo]

The AC OT certainly looks very good, but it is overkill.

Eh, to be fair, the OT is basically the first two posts and the rest is just a compilation of information. Want more? Don't need to leave Gaf to go looking for it.

The entire thing becomes very manageable once you realize critical information is in the first two posts, and that the first post has an index to everything else. The only problems I see are that the index doesn't immediately look like an index and the release date (IMPORTANT) is small relative to the other images.

Maybe the index should have also provided a link to where actual posts start? That way people don't have to scroll forever.

 

[Fjordson]

Name me one OT that is not Dark Souls or BF3 that has new people coming to it all the time after the first few weeks.

I do it a lot when I play games well after release and appreciate comprehensive OT's when I do, but I guess that's anecdotal evidence at best. I see what you mean.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

How many hours did your BF3 OT take CR?

I couldn't say... would have at least been more than 48 hours in total over the last 4 days before I put it out, and I had been working on it solidly for 3 months leading up to launch, but only like two hours here and there every second day.

So I'd say more than 100 hours easy.

 

[Pranay]

Have any of the mods or Evilore weighed in on this? I'm curious to hear what they think.

I agree with Loud Ninja said. Its the person who how he wants to create an ot.

Evilore has created "Dragon Age 2 " OT which was great ? Yes

But it had no info regarding to the game

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I couldn't say... would have at least been more than 48 hours in total over the last 4 days before I put it out, and I had been working on it solidly for 3 months leading up to launch, but only like two hours here and there every second day.

So I'd say more than 100 hours easy.

Holy crap :O

 

[Kyoufu]

I agree with Loud Ninja said. Its the person who how he wants to create an ot.

Evilore has created "Dragon Age 2 " OT which was great ? Yes

But it had no info regarding to the game

It did. It had "Shit Mountain" in the title, and that is all you needed to know.

 

[fernoca]

For every bloated post-everything-about-series OP being posted there's a good one full of only relevant information on the game not being posted.

More like for every 1 "bloated" there are 5+ that aren't. Which contradicts the whole point about "this threads becoming a plague".

Even less when you ask people around for "bloated threads" and they reply with the same:
-Metal Gear Solid 4 (posted years ago)
-Mortal Kombat (posted on April)
-Battlefield 3 (posted last month)
-(and now) Assassin's Creed Revelations! (posted today)

Heck, most people only think that MGS4 and Assassin's Creed are the "bloated threads"...and this entire thread is full of examples of threads that aren't "bloated"; yet because of those 4 threads "it's a plague".

 

[Rapstah]

I agree with Loud Ninja said. Its the person who how he wants to create an ot.

Evilore has created "Dragon Age 2 " OT which was great ? Yes

But it had no info regarding to the game

He did the Dragon Age: Origins OT too (picture-filled) but that is almost as loosely related to the game as the second one's.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Man, it's sweet how you can quote the relevant portion of a post using the forum's quote feature. Except, you know, when the post was submitted as an embedded image instead of text.

 

[Special J]

being pornography for fans of the franchise to circle jerk to.

you say it like its a bad thing.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

For every bloated post-everything-about-series OP being posted there's a good one full of only relevant information on the game not being posted.

Where is your proof? I mean if these mythical truth filled picture-less OT's exist then where are they?

Not posted because someone has poured alot great deal of time and effort into making an OT fans of the franchise appriciate and posted it first? Tough luck post quicker next time.

If someone was going to make the OT then why not ask if anyone is making the OT in a previous discusion thread and offer to work together? I out right asked Takao to work together when i made the DBZ UT OT. Im sure like minded fans of the series would be willing to do the same

 

[Sciz]

RE: the bolded

Ask yourself this... why would you go into an OT of a game that's the 4th in a series (a heavily story-focused one at that) if you know nothing about the series and want to learn more?

I don't know that it's a story-focused game because I haven't been following the series at all.

I don't necessarily know that it's the fourth in a series because it isn't numbered. Regardless, this would hardly be the first series where the best point to jump in is a later entry as opposed to earlier ones.

If I have to go elsewhere to learn why the series as a whole is popular, fine, but at that point I'm left wondering why there isn't a single paragraph in the massive OP explaining that for me if it can cover so much else.

Have any of the mods or Evilore weighed in on this? I'm curious to hear what they think.

As I recall from the BF3 OT backlash thread, Evilore said that he isn't really a fan but doesn't want to step on people's toes for doing what they enjoy, either. Working off the top of my head here, might be paraphrasing that wrong.

 

[butter_stick]

apart from the extras section which is about the guide, soundtrack and merchandise, the rest is all needed. the series is pretty complex, some people play all the games and have no clue whats
going on. this is also the last chapter for 2 major characters so a recap on the previous games i perfectly justified. people saying "pr fluff pr fluff" dont know what the fuck they are talking about.

The Assassin's Creed story isn't worth the time it would take to read the OT.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

The Assassin's Creed story isn't worth the time it would take to read the OT.

Opinion as fact? I like the story and appriciated the OT.

 

[butter_stick]

you say it like its a bad thing.

At least post the big tit assassin chick so we can all enjoy it.

 

[Jamesways]

The Assassin's Creed story isn't worth the time it would take to read the OT.

Keeping it classy.

 

[TheSeks]

This is all amir0x's fault btw.

Amir0x! *shakes fist in every direction*

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

apart from the extras section which is about the guide, soundtrack and merchandise, the rest is all needed.

Really?

UPlay achievements are necessary information?

Or an Italy only special edition full boxart and contents?

Bios for multiplayer characters some of whom you don't even have names for yet are necessary information?

You cant see a single part of those 15 posts where there was some room for editing down to keypoints?

I know you probably feel singled out by this topic, when really you're just a part of a problem of increasingly insubstantial hype-based OTs, but you can't honestly see why some people feel like despite all the glitz of your OT it is lacking in information people might be interested in and oveflowing with information most people aren't?

 

[iNvid02]

The Assassin's Creed story isn't worth the time it would take to read the OT.

just as i expected, half of the people in here have no interest in the story. they wandered into the thread, saw it had a lot of info and immediately assumed all of it was pr fluff.

 

[sixteen-bit]

http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=301558

NG2 OT still the best

a Master Ninja did a hell of a job.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

More like for every 1 "bloated" there are 5+ that aren't. Which contradicts the whole point about "this threads becoming a plague".

Even less when you ask people around for "bloated threads" and they reply with the same:
-Metal Gear Solid 4 (posted years ago)
-Mortal Kombat (posted on April)
-Battlefield 3 (posted last month)
-(and now) Assassin's Creed Revelations! (posted today)

Heck, most people only think that MGS4 and Assassin's Creed are the "bloated threads"...and this entire thread is full of examples of threads that aren't "bloated"; yet because of those 4 threads "it's a plague".

There are a ton of OT's that read off like PR.

 

[vazel]

I don't know what tone the thread has taken but I agree with the OP. I first started noticing this with the bf3 OT; I thought it was too much.

 

[Fuzzy]

you say it like its a bad thing.

We all know the circle jerk thread is supposed to be the review thread.

 

[Zeliard]

a Master Ninja's NG2 OT is the one they should all aspire to approach.

 

[Rapstah]

Where is your proof? I mean if these mythical truth filled picture-less OT's exist then where are they?

Not posted because someone has poured alot great deal of time and effort into making an OT fans of the franchise appriciate and posted it first? Tough luck post quicker next time.

If someone was going to make the OT then why not ask if anyone is making the OT in a previous discusion thread and offer to work together? I out right asked Takao to work together when i made the DBZ UT OT. Im sure like minded fans of the series would be willing to do the same

OTs are usually agreed upon before being posted, so I'm not saying people are trying to post small great ones and being beaten by the enormous ones. Have a look at the two links in this thread's OP for two one-post original thread first posts.

And obviously this isn't a digital issue. There's no point where a thread goes from being great to suddenly being horrible and drowning in all of its information. Threads are more or less bloated. It's not as if there is a lack of them as suggested above either, there's the MW3 OT on the first page sticking out (not as bad as the AC: R one) and we have the DOTA 2 one on the horizon bound to be ridicolous.

I'm not saying these threads are bad from a design standpoint, I could never do that amount of work in design or information collection for this cause. I'm saying they're inefficient.

Leaving the discussion to go to sleep if I don't answer to answers to this.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

As I recall from the BF3 OT backlash thread, Evilore said that he isn't really a fan but doesn't want to step on people's toes for doing what they enjoy, either. Working off the top of my head here, might be paraphrasing that wrong.

There was a BF3 OT backlash thread?

 

[fernoca]

There are a ton of OT's that read off like PR.

Yep, and most of them are relatively small, so people don't mind. They seem to mind when threads are "big" and assume that everything is copy-pasted PR; because otherwise if said person actually wrote that much information; said person has no life.

And because of those 4-5 threads, it is now a plague.

 

[iNvid02]

There was a BF3 OT backlash thread?

i think the news thread turned into "this it taking too long" thread, dont remember there
being a backlash after you posted it. not like this anyway lol

 

[etiolate]

The gaming forum has become a giant billboard for game companies. People here like to bitch and moan about how Game Reviews and Previews are mostly just regurgitated PR, but the same thing is done here with OTs.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

OTs are usually agreed upon before being posted, so I'm not saying people are trying to post small great ones and being beaten by the enormous ones. Have a look at the two links in this thread's OP for two one-post original thread first posts.

And obviously this isn't a digital issue. There's no point where a thread goes from being great to suddenly being horrible and drowning in all of its information. Threads are more or less bloated. It's not as if there is a lack of them as suggested above either, there's the MW3 OT on the first page sticking out (not as bad as the AC: R one) and we have the DOTA 2 one on the horizon bound to be ridicolous.

I'm not saying these threads are bad from a design standpoint, I could never do that amount of work in design or information collection for this cause. I'm saying they're inefficient.

Leaving the discussion to go to sleep if I don't answer to answers to this.

I dont see a need for communist esq efficiency to me an OT is hub for game information, If all that infomation is displayed anything else is gravy. Release date and platforms should be at the top of the post just after the initial banner written in plain text so they can be found via ctrl+f everything else can be as big and flashy as the creator wants because fans will more than likely appriciate it. Should a OT cater to fans or non fans?.

After 1 month if the OT is popular its going to community and if you wish you never even have to see the link to it anymore, their it will has a social hub for fans much like the gears and halo OT's do and these are very much appriciated.

People are complaing about being given optional free info, its crazy your not being forced to read these topics or even enter them and yet this thread is 16 pages of complains against hard work.

People calling OT's horrible and hilariously bloated ect, thats plain mean die hard fans have obviously devoted a great deal of time towards them and your mocking their work. Shame on you.

I really fail to see an issue, if you dont like what your looking at dont look at it. Just remember alot of people will like what they see. AC:R OT is great i commend the creator on his work.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

The other recent thread where a bunch of people are getting sick of over-hyped OTs and the use of fucking jpeg-text

 

[jim-jam bongs]

The gaming forum has become a giant billboard for game companies. People here like to bitch and moan about how Game Reviews and Previews are mostly just regurgitated PR, but the same thing is done here with OTs.

They're even worse actually, because at least people writing reviews have actually played the game people are going to be buying.

I dont see a need for communist esq efficiency to me an OT is hub for game information, If all that infomation is displayed anything else is gravy. Release date and platforms should be at the top of the post just after the initial banner written in plain text so they can be found via ctrl+f everything else can be as big and flashy as the creator wants because fans will more than likely appriciate it. Should a OT cater to fans or non fans?.

After 1 month if the OT is popular its going to community and if you wish you never even have to see the link to it anymore, their it will has a social hub for fans much like the gears and halo OT's do and these are very much appriciated.

People are complaing about being given optional free info, its crazy your not being forced to read these topics or even enter them and yet this thread is 16 pages of complains against hard work.

People calling OT's horrible and hilariously bloated ect, thats plain mean die hard fans have obviously devoted a great deal of time towards them and your mocking their work. Shame on you.

I really fail to see an issue, if you dont like what your looking at dont look at it. Just remember alot of people will like what they see. AC:R OT is great i commend the creator on his work.

I come to GAF to take part in an information exchange, not a passive consumption of information. There are plenty of places on the internet where I can do the latter. And to be quite honest, there is a reason Livejournal-style posts are frowned upon.

 

[Irish]

It's shameful how people who don't go 'meh' at every game are treated like criminals on GAF. I didn't know enthusiasm was such an unwelcome trait here.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

It's shameful how people who don't go 'meh' at every game are treated like criminals on GAF. I didn't know enthusiasm was such an unwelcome trait here.

Enthusiasm != Hype

Get a grip.

 

[Kintaro]

Friends, this is Kagari's OT to the Japanese release of FF Type-0.

BOOM done. Rules for OTs should be exactly this at maximum. Everything you need, nothing you don't. Perfection.

The Ultimate Marvel OT that just went up is like a PR booklet/website for Capcom.

 

[fernoca]

The gaming forum has become a giant billboard for game companies. People here like to bitch and moan about how Game Reviews and Previews are mostly just regurgitated PR, but the same thing is done here with OTs.

Tell me how a game reviewer, that receives the press kits, games, interviews, put in airplanes to play games at the publisher's HQ; among other things; before posting a review (which is the basis of most when it comes to not trusting some sites)...

...can be compared to a random forum-user that decided to take a few hours/days to make an official thread for a game he/she likes; just because "it is too much" for some or "too copy pasted" for others.

I can agree with those that don't like the threads, because of the size, overuse of images, etc. But assuming we're corporate chills, receive gifts, money and other incentives as this thread has shown is just nonsense.

BOOM done. Rules for OTs should be exactly this at maximum. Everything you need, nothing you don't. Perfection.

The Ultimate Marvel OT that just went up is like a PR booklet/website for Capcom.

I might have to look around, but as much as I loved Kagari's thread and even said it on that same thread; weren't a few here earlier complaining about how it wasn't that good because it was all images,and links and no texts or how the formatting was messed up in smaller screens. ..or something. Looking to see if was in this thread at least. ( Unless it was just sarcasm.)

EDIT:
Bah, can't find the comments. Now I wonder if it was in this thread...or even today. XD

 

[Glix]

As long as we are bitching about |OT|...

Can we implement a new system? Like, |hype| thread until launch day, and THEN the |OT|? When I look at an OT, especially a week or so after the game launches, it is really freaking annoying to try and find where the hype posts end and the actual impressions of the game start.

Just an idea.