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[Alex Connolly]

It's shameful how people who don't go 'meh' at every game are treated like criminals on GAF. I didn't know enthusiasm was such an unwelcome trait here.

I don't think that's true at all. GAF is, sadly, one of the top-tier showcases of internet gamer binary positions a lot of the time. You're either a slavering fanboy or you're a sour, snarky shit. 'Meh' is being reserved in this spectrum, and it's perhaps something that should be fostered slightly more.

I'm usually quite positive when talking about particular games and don't need a choir of yes or no men to validate my position.

 

[The Hermit]

Does anyone actually read those insane OPs?

I think the only one that was appropriate was the MGS4 by BruceLeroy because to play that game you must know the convoluted history behind it.

 

[Haunted]

Wow, that AC thread is a bit much, I agree.

I mean, enthusiasm is great. We need enthusiastic people and fans. But that OP... it's too much.

Kinda creepy.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

I vote for, I really like them and read them.
I also have seen people in other forums and this gaining design jobs for OTs and other similar things.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

And here is my opinion. I don't see why people have a problem with them. Why are they a plague? What is wrong with them? Why are they so bad? Why do you have a problem with them?

Is it because if you are going to do an OT that you feel that if you don't live up to these monstrosities that you're going to be seen as 'inadequate'?

I cannot see the problem with doing such big OT's.

I am a fan of big OT's. I personally only visit GAF for my gaming information. I don't have a lot of time to go visiting everywhere for all of my information here there everywhere, so I love the fact that a person has gone to the effort (PR or not) to put together all possible information about a game in ONE place and if I want to read it I can, if not, I don't.

THIS is what I believe the purpose of a GAF OT is.

GAF is a place where people come to find out about games. I consider GAF to be the PREMIER gaming website on the internet, the TOP site, the best site, the number 1 gaming website, therefore official threads for games upon their releases should be 'monstrosities' simply for the fact that they should represent the game's significance as a game in the industry, the scene, GAF's fan-base and user-base in particular and most of all, to service it's members.

The complaining being made about the OT's here I feel is almost completely absurd and irrelevant. How can you complain about something that you can simply skip over and not read if you do not wish to? How is it harming you?

Why is it a problem if there is a SINGLE source for ALL information about a game?

Granted, I do believe that a table of contents is certainly a requirement if the post is going to be a very big one, so in future if I do any more HUGE OT's like my BF3 one I will be putting in an INDEX with links so that people don't have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll to find the information that they need.

My policy for my BF3 OT was ALWAYS about trying to put in as much USEFUL information about the game as possible. I wanted the OT to be the one stop spot for anyone to go if they ever wanted to find out stuff about the game.

In my opinion - and this is what I think the purpose of OT's are. If I want to know something about a game, anything, I go to a GAF OT.

Perhaps it is time for things to become more 'organised'. Perhaps the Mods should set a specific 'template' for each OT to follow, because OT's are made by members and they are CHAOS with everything in different orders all the time and it can be hard to find things, and I think this is the problem a lot of people have, perhaps if there was a particular 'layout' that had to be followed each time, that looked however it needed or wanted to look for each game then that might change things.

If a mod would like me to, I would be happy to create an OT layout template - please PM me if you so desire.

I did this in some parts of my OT, but I think it perhaps wasn't the best idea - and while it looks better for certain things, putting almost the entire text of the thread into images is probably something that should be changed as well.

OBVIOUSLY this is a hotly debated issue and the Mods are going to have to come up with some rules. I like making OT's, and I'd like to continue making more for games that I care about, so I'd like to be involved in this decision making process if I can be if it ends up having to change or rules be made about them... hopefully they can just stay the way they are and allow them to be freedom of expression but perhaps some layout / template ground rules should be followed for the sake of consistency and ease of use to find things.

Edit - someone in the other thread said that they would believe that EA may have paid me for the BF3 OT. HAH, i'll take that as a compliment

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I vote for, I really like them and read them.
I also have seen people in other forums and this gaining design jobs for OTs and other similar things.

Hopefully not web design jobs if they're using jpeg-text.

 

[iNvid02]

Does anyone actually read those insane OPs?

I think the only one that was appropriate was the MGS4 by BruceLeroy because to play that game you must know the convoluted history behind it.

the assassin's creed series is pretty damn complex, this game will also be the last for 2 major characters so yeah i think it was justified.

Hopefully not web design jobs if they're using jpeg-text.

except this is a bbcode forum with a fixed design, you can stick with its font and go on and on vertically or put it in images and spread it out

 

[JWong]

Does anyone actually read those insane OPs?

I think the only one that was appropriate was the MGS4 by BruceLeroy because to play that game you must know the convoluted history behind it.

I liked the Killzone one.

I think a lot more people know the MGS history than the Killzone, so, for the same reason, I like reading the Killzone 2 OT.

the assassin's creed series is pretty damn complex, this game will also be the last for 2 major characters so yeah i think it was justified.

Sure, but some segments that take up a shitton don't need to be in there. Like the multiplayer character section which even has the bottom two characters with empty boxes yet taking up half the screen.

http://www.abload.de/img/mp16n3i9.jpg

 

[DidntKnowJack]

I find it kind of hard to criticize any thread someone put so much work into. Even if I understand some of the criticisms leveled at them.They may be overdone at times, but I don't think they're a plague.

 

[SykoTech]

Meh. As long as the thread memorable and fun to gaze at, I don't care how long (or short) it is.

Looking at the AssCreed one, I'd say the problem is more about clutter than length. All the images, images with texts, and backgrounds just seem sorta messy to me. Could use a more clean look like the MGS4 |OT|. That one is still a joy to scroll through.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Wow, that AC thread is a bit much, I agree.

I mean, enthusiasm is great. We need enthusiastic people and fans. But that OP... it's too much.

Kinda creepy.

See that's the thing, people go, "Oh but how much time they put into the thread!" Yeah, well, that dude on BioWare's forum spent a lot of time figuring out Tali's sweat for the "benefit" of others, and I'm not patting him on the back for his effort.

In an age where search engines are built into browsers and phones, I can just type "bf3 eng" and have the info I want within seconds, without loading and scrolling past multiple 1,100x1800 JPGs with awkwardly written PR-style blurbs and pictures of guns.

 

[Amir0x]

I certainly don't read any OP that massive. And personally, I think an OP that big spoils so much about the game in question it potentially ruins the thread period.

I prefer the more direct and useful OTs, like the recent Super Mario 3D Land topic or even the Skyrim topic for something I might skim. That's the way my Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword topic is going to be.

 

[stupei]

I wasn't around in 2007 or whenever MGS4 came out but from what I've read, most people were in awe of the OT and saying how great it was. It wasn't till years after the fact that people started making light of it.

Also, BF3 isn't a forum darling. I wouldn't really consider Uncharted one, either, as it's a PS3-exclusive. Skyrim and Batman would be good examples.

Gaf Trends: Official Thread OPs that resemble Official Game Websites (Yay or Nay?) was created 5 months after the MGS4 thread was posted.

And I'm not sure why anyone would think that the series that produced GAF's 5th most popular game of 2009 and 12th most popular game of 2010 is somehow the target of massive trolling and derision on a larger scale than any other major release. GAF does not hate Assassin's Creed and people who bothered to click on an Assassin's Creed thread in order to discover that they don't really like its format aren't necessarily trolls. Shocking, but true.

 

[mr stroke]

Wow, lot of butt hurt people here. I agree some of the OP's are insane and too long. But who cares, if you don't like it go past the first page. Let fans have there fun.

 

[fernoca]

Edit - someone in the other thread said that they would believe that EA may have paid me for the BF3 OT. HAH, i'll take that as a compliment

Well, in this thread too..quite a few times too. Just in the first page (GAF Gold 100 per page):

What I really like is when the person that creates an OT receive gifts from the PR person handling that game like it's no big deal.

..I'm still waiting for my Mortal Kombat, Skylanders, Solatorobo and Motoheroz gifts. Must've been lost in the mail.

 

[Haunted]

See that's the thing, people go, "Oh but how much time they put into the thread!" Yeah, well, that dude on BioWare's forum spent a lot of time figuring out Tali's sweat for the "benefit" of others, and I'm not patting him on the back for his effort.

In an age where search engines are built into browsers and phones, I can just type "bf3 eng" and have the info I want within seconds, without loading and scrolling past multiple 1,100x1800 JPGs with awkwardly written PR-style blurbs and pictures of guns.

yup yup


Also, if we're posting embarrassing great OTs: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342049

 

[Aselith]

I find it kind of hard to criticize any thread someone put so much work into. Even if I understand some of the criticisms leveled at them.They may be overdone at times, but I don't think they're a plague.

The problem is that there's so much bloat in them. The MW3 one has the fucking controller layout. Like, really? I think people interested in a MW3 OT know how the goddamn controls work.

Part of putting in the work on something is making it audience-focused and succinct. Clearly, people are putting in the work on word-vomit but not putting in the work to think about what could be left out.

Although ironically, that's only a one post long OT so it's not too bad.

 

[Zeliard]

See that's the thing, people go, "Oh but how much time they put into the thread!" Yeah, well, that dude on BioWare's forum spent a lot of time figuring out Tali's sweat for the "benefit" of others, and I'm not patting him on the back for his effort.

That guy should be given some sort of medal given the ample amount of comedic material he's bestowed to the Internet.

 

[Glix]

Also, incredibly comedic OT OP's are awesome and should never be stopped.

The KH:BBS OT made me cry.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

 

[Raonak]

I like a happy medium. that Assasins Creed 2:3 OT was bad.

MGS4 and UC3 ones i liked. informative, but not to the point of redundcany.

 

[Seda]

Also, incredibly comedic OT OP's are awesome and should never be stopped.

The KH:BBS OT made me cry.

Bebpo's re:coded OT was awesome too.

 

[pakkit]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

Nice Assassin's Creed OP, Hitler.

 

[Amagon]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

 

[Mr. Robot]

Just came here to say that the Skylanders OT is my favorite one, since it has useful info but the OP made it look good, also it started as a small simple post but kept getting bigger and better...

 

[SapientWolf]

I think the biggest plague on these boards is whiners. Nothing is ever good enough. Even free stuff gets denigrated. It's unbelievable at times.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

 

[fernoca]

Just came here to say that the Skylanders OT is my favorite one, since it has useful info but the OP made it look good, also it started as small post but kept getting better...

Thanks.
Too bad the information is kinda hard to come by, so I also appreciate the responses and updates from everyone.

 

[Tallshortman]

Heh, I like how people are now complaining about the time others put into their game. If you're too damn lazy to do an OT then don't complain because someone else put a lot of time into making theirs look good. If you want really fast info on the game just do a damn wiki or google search.

If they're such a plague I challenge the whiners to do better themselves instead of being armchair quarterbacks.

 

[etiolate]

Tell me how a game reviewer, that receives the press kits, games, interviews, put in airplanes to play games at the publisher's HQ; among other things; before posting a review (which is the basis of most when it comes to not trusting some sites)...

...can be compared to a random forum-user that decided to take a few hours/days to make an official thread for a game he/she likes; just because "it is too much" for some or "too copy pasted" for others.

I can agree with those that don't like the threads, because of the size, overuse of images, etc. But assuming we're corporate chills, receive gifts, money and other incentives as this thread has shown is just nonsense.

the principle of not being schills applies to both consumer and reviewer

In case you are unaware, the gaming public has a large problem with its consumerism overriding its self-interest. If you don't think these giant advertisements of OTs are schilling then I dare ask what you consider to be schilling? If someone wanted a discussion topic for a new game, they could provide a simple link to the game's website, a synopsis of what the game is and then follow with some discussion topics relating to this particular game. (How does this release compare to others in the series? Do people care about the single player part of this franchise? Do you feel the purely visual aesthetics match the gameplay?) So the discussion thread can be an actual discussion thread.

 

[Aselith]

I think the biggest plague on these boards is whiners. Nothing is ever good enough. Even free stuff gets denigrated. It's unbelievable at times.

I agree to a certain extent. However, OT's are a big part of the board and searching through a huge one for important information because it's huge and bloated is annoying. Important info only should be the rule when you make one. It's great that people are willing to put the time in but that does not make them above criticism just like the games that they're about. If people see certain thing constantly and it bothers them, there's no reason not to try to address that especially when a lot of people are bothered by the same issue.

That's how we improve the board.

I would like it very much if all OT OP's saved one post after the OT for quoting posts with important information that they forgot but that's just me.

 

[Haunted]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

 

[Sixfortyfive]

If you're too damn lazy to do an OT then don't complain because someone else put a lot of time into making theirs look good.

No, they typically put a lot of time and effort into making them look bad and borderline unreadable.

 

[Deadbeat]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

 

[Hellsing321]

Heh, I like how people are now complaining about the time others put into their game. If you're too damn lazy to do an OT then don't complain because someone else put a lot of time into making theirs look good. If you want really fast info on the game just do a damn wiki or google search.

If they're such a plague I challenge the whiners to do better themselves instead of being armchair quarterbacks.

Its been said in this thread before but this kind of logic is awful. So no one is allowed to have an opinion on anything until they can produce a great work in that field? Didn't like the game you just played? Well I bet you couldn't make a better one! This mentality stifles discussion and casts everyone with criticism (constructive or not) as a "whiner" with nothing better to do with his time and no accomplishments in their life.

 

[Sinatar]

I'm glad someone decided to say something, I was wondering if I was alone in this.

Honestly if it takes more then 1 post to convey what you're saying then you've gone overboard.

You aren't getting paid to post these things, don't feel obligated to do the PR departments work for them.

 

[enzo_gt]

BOOM done. Rules for OTs should be exactly this at maximum. Everything you need, nothing you don't. Perfection.

The Ultimate Marvel OT that just went up is like a PR booklet/website for Capcom.

..is it really? I don't think it's even in the same league as any other threads, I tried to tend it not to be anything even close to a PR booklet and to focus it on informing people of the important stuff.. Anyone share these sentiments?

But yeah I just put up the UMvC3 OT and would love constructive criticism on it, it's my first gaming-side OT.

Yes, it's three posts, but hear out my rationale first, the last two are just a comprehensive breakdown of the changes from MvC3 and are pretty much what the hardcore MvC3 folk care about most and will be referring to the most. So I thought it was important to constrict the OT to one post (text as images unfortunately being a crutch in the character section to avoid it being two posts) and keep the change log for the next two. Again, any comments or criticisms are welcomed.

 

[iNvid02]

the principle of not being schills applies to both consumer and reviewer

In case you are unaware, the gaming public has a large problem with its consumerism overriding its self-interest. If you don't think these giant advertisements of OTs are schilling then I dare ask what you consider to be schilling? If someone wanted a discussion topic for a new game, they could provide a simple link to the game's website, a synopsis of what the game is and then follow with some discussion topics relating to this particular game. (How does this release compare to others in the series? Do people care about the single player part of this franchise? Do you feel the purely visual aesthetics match the gameplay?) So the discussion thread can be an actual discussion thread.

then rules would have to be introduced so OT's are only allowed to contain a link to the game website (the acr site has fuck all apart from a few trailers and pics to build hype, just like almost all official sites, my OT actually had relevant info) and have a short synopsis.

then you would also not want OT's to be made before a game is released, because everything up to that point will most likely be hype building by fans - its just what happens. the real discussion starts after the game releases because people have actually played it.

 

[SapientWolf]

I agree to a certain extent. However, OT's are a big part of the board and searching through a huge one for important information because it's huge and bloated is annoying. Important info only should be the rule when you make one. It's great that people are willing to put the time in but that does not make them above criticism just like the games that they're about. If people see certain thing constantly and it bothers them, there's no reason not to try to address that especially when a lot of people are bothered by the same issue.

That's how we improve the board.

What's considered to be important info? Gamefaqs might be a better place for easy to access facts. The conversation is really the centerpiece of the OT. The OP is just nice decoration.

However, I do think that the first post should be updated with relevant news. Because that aids the discussion.

 

[Shanadeus]

I agree with the title of this thread.
Feels like a fucking PR job, only it is worse because I know there are people willing to do that shit for free.

I'd rather this board be filled with cynical hipsters than consumerist fanboys.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Heh, I like how people are now complaining about the time others put into their game. If you're too damn lazy to do an OT then don't complain because someone else put a lot of time into making theirs look good. If you want really fast info on the game just do a damn wiki or google search.

If they're such a plague I challenge the whiners to do better themselves instead of being armchair quarterbacks.

If you're only allowed to criticise things you've personally done better with shouldn't you be busy optimising idtech 4?

 

[stupei]

I think the biggest plague on these boards is whiners. Nothing is ever good enough. Even free stuff gets denigrated. It's unbelievable at times.

I think the biggest problem with this board might be this kind of hyperbole that suggests that any criticism or commentary that isn't absolute adoration or praise is crybaby whiners who don't really enjoy games ridiculing other people who love games and are still capable of feeling joy, unlike the hard hearted bastards who judge others for their hard work.

 

[Massa]

I love how people ask for pricing information on the OT. Really, that's the useful stuff you long for?

Anyway, if you block images the AC: Revelations thread is actually quite good. Nice work there.

 

[Boney]

the holocaust took a lot of effort too

it did?

 

[fernoca]

the principle of not being schills applies to both consumer and reviewer

In case you are unaware, the gaming public has a large problem with its consumerism overriding its self-interest. If you don't think these giant advertisements of OTs are schilling then I dare ask what you consider to be schilling? If someone wanted a discussion topic for a new game, they could provide a simple link to the game's website, a synopsis of what the game is and then follow with some discussion topics relating to this particular game. (How does this release compare to others in the series? Do people care about the single player part of this franchise? Do you feel the purely visual aesthetics match the gameplay?) So the discussion thread can be an actual discussion thread.

I'm not unaware of that. But for example, I made the Mortal Kombat OT "like that" for a few simple reasons:
-Been a fan of the series since the 90s (1992)
-The game was a reboot but also had connections not only to the previous main games, but to some of the spinoffs.
-The series was mostly criticized around here for been "same ol..lol".
-Most MK threads dissolved into "MK sucks since MK2 lolol"

So, I decided to make "something special"; to celebrate if anything the return of the franchise (even when I didn't liked many aspects of it; mostly because I made it on a small-ass screen).

If that makes others assume that I'm a corporate schill, just because I really like MK, well so be it. But the same can be said for every other OT for that matter; or the "I love this game, buy it" kind of threads posted for many games. Is 'Dartastic' one too because he made a thread called "Dear GAF, buy Sonic Generations. ...no seriously."; even when there's an OT discussing the game? Nope. He played the game, he really liked it and wanted to spread the word around for others that might ignore the OT because of "lol Sonic cycle".

 

[Parallax Scroll]

..is it really? I don't think it's even in the same league as any other threads, I tried to tend it not to be anything even close to a PR booklet and to focus it on informing people of the important stuff.. Anyone share these sentiments?

But yeah I just put up the UMvC3 OT and would love constructive criticism on it, it's my first gaming-side OT.

Yes, it's three posts, but hear out my rationale first, the last two are just a comprehensive breakdown of the changes from MvC3 and are pretty much what the hardcore MvC3 folk care about most and will be referring to the most. So I thought it was important to constrict the OT to one post (text as images unfortunately being a crutch in the character section to avoid it being two posts) and keep the change log for the next two. Again, any comments or criticisms are welcomed.

I've already made my opinion on jpeg-text clear, but besides that I'd say it's still a bit heavy on character bios to scroll past. Naturally the thread should highlight the new characters, but I would prefer it done with less screen real estate, such as by using smaller/thumbnail character images and plain text bios. After that I really dig the OP. It links to a lot of good stuff, and the section headers made me chuckle, though they're mostly in-jokes.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

..is it really? I don't think it's even in the same league as any other threads, I tried to tend it not to be anything even close to a PR booklet and to focus it on informing people of the important stuff.. Anyone share these sentiments?

But yeah I just put up the UMvC3 OT and would love constructive criticism on it, it's my first gaming-side OT.

Yes, it's three posts, but hear out my rationale first, the last two are just a comprehensive breakdown of the changes from MvC3 and are pretty much what the hardcore MvC3 folk care about most and will be referring to the most. So I thought it was important to constrict the OT to one post (text as images unfortunately being a crutch in the character section to avoid it being two posts) and keep the change log for the next two. Again, any comments or criticisms are welcomed.

It's not nearly as offensive as most of the ones I bitch about simply because most of the content is actually worthwhile information on some level, and it has an appropriate amount of in-forum humor and references that are appreciated.

Text-as-images is absolutely the worst offense you can make in an OP, though. Doing it to circumvent the character limit doesn't make it better. A list of links to Youtube clips of the new characters would be far better than what you have in there now. A list of release dates would be better than an image (why???) of release dates.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I'm fairly sure that I'm one of the most mean, cynical jerks on GAF and yet I play and enjoy video games nearly every day of my life.

What tangled webs.

 

[Hyuga]

I like these big lOTls

 

[Aselith]

What's considered to be important info? Gamefaqs might be a better place for easy to access facts. The conversation is really the centerpiece of the OT. The OP is just nice decoration.

However, I do think that the first post should be updated with relevant news. Because that aids the discussion.

Release date, characters, weapons/maps (for multiplayer shooters) car types/models (racers), other relevant game customization options, basic synposis of gameplay/setting. That should all be straight text and first on the OT. No images of boxart and shit like that until after all that information is on display. Instead it's like HUGE DEVELOPER INFO picture, HUGE BOXART EXTRAVAGANZA, HUGE CHARACTER PICTURE SECTION, SCREENSHOT HOLY SHIT SECTION. Then we get to weapons and you have to hunt for it.