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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]

Has anyone considered that the "nightmare" and "dream" realms aren't really dreams, but the gods/cthulhu friends dimension?

Considering Rom's area was grey and all dreamlike, and it in itself was called a halfway between worlds to keep the illusion, it would seem somewhat fitting for a similar place, the Hunters Dream, to simply be a dimension that is either of the Gods, or something closer to the Gods than the human world to keep tabs on the Hunters as they go through the night.
 

Ophelion

Member
Interesting bit of dialogue from gattling gun man if you befriend him.

Says something about how he used to dream and there is nothing more horrific than hunt.

Then "Go. You have all night to dream. Best make the most of it."

I wonder if this means you have all night to be in the dream (like as in the whole setting is enveloped in dream) or if he means the connection to the Hunter's Dream will only last for the night.

It'll make me sad if it turns out the whole thing is just a dream state, but that could definitely be evidence pointing toward that.
 

GorillaJu

Member
Replaying through the beginning now on NG+, some of the notes are a little clearer.

The general sense that I am getting is that the game takes place within a communal dream, with additional paths to and from other dreams/nightmares, but because of the significance of dreams to communing with Elder Gods in the Lovecraft universe, the dream is still important and doesn't mean it's disposable. It's likely everyone in Yharnum experiences this on the Night of the Hunt.

The first vision we're granted after the man with bandaged eyes injects us with Yharnum blood is a werewolf emerging from a pool of blood, approaching, and then bursting into flames. After that, the Messengers come to claim you as a Hunter. The initial wolf may represent the inner human beast that's now corrupted with Yharnum's blood, and its approach is the sense of it taking over, which most fall victim to. But because you do not, you are fit to be a Hunter.

The game announces "Nightmare Ended" rather than "Prey Slaughtered" both for Mergo's Wet Nurse and Moon Presence kills, but Mergo's the normal/false result, while the Moon is the complete/true result. The other optional Celestial bosses are there for flavor and setting, and develop more about the Healing Church and other areas of Yharnum and its blood.

In the shortest route to the end, the only required bosses are Father Gascione; Vicar Amelia; Shadows of Yharnam; Rom, the Vacuous Spider; The One Reborn; Micolash, Host of the Nightmare; and Mergo's Wet Nurse. By only being exposed to the minimum amount of information through the game and not collecting enough Cords, it would seem that is sufficient to end the Night's Hunt. With your task complete, Gehrman offers to return you to reality, and refusal means the Moon keeps you in the dream world as his replacement. The Hunt is over either way, but the cycle is not broken.

To break/transcend the cycle, you have to collect the Cords and confront Paleblood. In the beginning in Iosefka's Clinic, the first thing the player encounters is a note that the only way to transcend the Hunt is to seek Paleblood. Much later, in the Lecture Hall (F2), there are two notes toward the end, with one being a simple "Three third cords," and the other being a note linking Paleblood to the Moon. By collecting the Cords and confronting the Moon, you ascend to godhood and end the Hunt.

If Paleblood is the Moon Presence, why do you ask the doctor in the intro about it? You wouldn't know about it until later, no? That part confuses me but the rest seems very sound.
 

StMeph

Member
If Paleblood is the Moon Presence, why do you ask the doctor in the intro about it? You wouldn't know about it until later, no? That part confuses me but the rest seems very sound.

There's a note in the clinic at the beginning of the game that says, "Seek Paleblood to transcend the hunt." Since you don't know anything about it, you ask Gilbert, the first friendly NPC, who says he doesn't know anything about Paleblood either, but points you toward the Grand Cathedral because it's the home of Blood Ministration and they have many kinds of unique blood. That starts your journey.

In the Lecture Building, a note states, "The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood." That's the strongest association together, but it could also mean that Paleblood is what beckons the Moon Presence, who otherwise has no name. In this case, the PC is Paleblood, sought out specifically to engage the Moon.

The third of Cord's flavor text (Abandoned Workshop) reads "Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate. The Third Umbilical Cord precipitated the encounter with the pale moon, which beckoned the hunters and conceived the hunter's dream." The others all have a similar vein.

Arianna's: "Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate, and Oedon, the formless Great One, is no different. To think, it was corrupted blood that began this eldritch liaison."

Mergo's Wet Nurse: "Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate. This Cord granted Mensis audience with Mergo, but resulted in the stillbirth of their brains."

Iosefka: "Provost Willem sought the Cord in order to elevate his being and thoughts to those of a Great One, by lining his brain with eyes. The only choice, he knew, if man were to ever match Their greatness."

The conclusion is that there are multiple Outer Elder Gods, and this is their means of reproduction. Arianna's child is Oedon's, and Yharnam's is Mergo's, but was stillborn. It also suggests that finding and using a Cord also is a way to communicate directly with that God (Pale Moon; Iosefka's God is unclear, but that was the function).
 
Does anyone knonw who "Laurence" is? Before he was even mentioned in the after Vicar cut scene you could hear Gehrman talk about him in his sleep. Later near the end of the game he mentions him again sounding even sadder. Other then that I think he is only mentioned in a note that claims that the Moon Presence was beckoned by him, and his associates. Is that all the hints of him in the game or did I miss something?
 

Korosenai

Member
Who is the Hunter with you in the very beginning of the game? And is that Iosefkas Clinic? Still not sure of the significance behind the werewolf showing up and those messengers crawling on you before you pass out.
 

StMeph

Member
Does anyone knonw who "Laurence" is? Before he was even mentioned in the after Vicar cut scene you could hear Gehrman talk about him in his sleep. Later near the end of the game he mentions him again sounding even sadder. Other then that I think he is only mentioned in a note that claims that the Moon Presence was beckoned by him, and his associates. Is that all the hints of him in the game or did I miss something?

Laurence is Willem's student in Byrgenwerth, the two people seen talking in the cutscene after Vicar Amelia's death. Laurence splinters off from Willem and Byrgenwerth after its closure. What he does isn't totally clear, but it's suggested that he founds Yahar'gul and its cult to perform a ritual with the Moon, which we interrupt with The One Reborn.
 
Laurence is Willem's student in Byrgenwerth, the two people seen talking in the cutscene after Vicar Amelia's death. Laurence splinters off from Willem and Byrgenwerth after its closure. What he does isn't totally clear, but it's suggested that he founds Yahar'gul and its cult to perform a ritual with the Moon, which we interrupt with The One Reborn.

I gathered that much, and was mostly asking to see if I missed anything else with him. He seems to be such an important person in the history of the game and I expected to see/hear more about him. I don't even think he shows up in any item descriptions. Unless he ends up being Laurence Ludwig or something.
 

Listonosh

Member
ENB's videos are slowly shining a light on all the more cryptic stuff that's hard to piece together. Which is quite nice. The answers are there, it's just hard to make sense of them, I suppose.

Yeah, he can't really reveal everything though. If you notice, he usually skirts around a topic and says something like, "that might be important later" or "I'll let you guys figure this one out"

I mean he's most certainly doing this for two reasons. One, he wants threads like these to exist and people to engage in jolly conversation. But secondly, and probably more importantly, all the secrets and reveals are in the guide he helped write, which I'm sure he wants to sell well, so revealing everything in his videos would go against what he's been working on for such a long time.
 

HeelPower

Member
Godamn the lore and atmosphere of this game.

FROM is not only the best at gameplay but they're probably the best at stories too lol.
 
Godamn the lore and atmosphere of this game.

FROM is not only the best at gameplay but they're probably the best at stories too lol.

They are by far the best developer to nail down tone and atmosphere.

The stories are always great too, with the exception of Dark Souls II which was a bit too hamfisted with "Hey, this item is from the other game, hey this soul is a great soul, hey if you didn't get it the first time NG+ will literally tell you this is the old soul of Izalith"

But yea, this is probably the coolest story yet, the twist halfway is something I wasn't expecting. Who know we aliens would be in a Souls game?
 

Brydo0

Neo Member
So after killing the moon presence, you become the next "Great One". What are the general thoughts on the effect it has on Yharnam?

Also this is a bit OT related, but spoiler heavy so I wanted to throw it out here.. What were everyone's favorite boss fights?

Daughter of the Cosmos, Father Gascoigne and Rom were mine. Also loved the concept of Witches of Hemwick, wish it had proved a bit more challenging though.
 

Neoweee

Member
So after killing the moon presence, you become the next "Great One". What are the general thoughts on the effect it has on Yharnam?

Also this is a bit OT related, but spoiler heavy so I wanted to throw it out here.. What were everyone's favorite boss fights?

Daughter of the Cosmos, Father Gascoigne and Rom were mine. Also loved the concept of Witches of Hemwick, wish it had proved a bit more challenging though.
Ebrietas is the only boss that I feel like I have to " learn". The rest I could cheese or instantly melt with Tonitrus. Rom is a nifty design, and can take a few minutes to kill (if you aren't using Tonitrus. Otherwise he dies in like 12 hits.)
 

Coconut

Banned
So after killing the moon presence, you become the next "Great One". What are the general thoughts on the effect it has on Yharnam?

Also this is a bit OT related, but spoiler heavy so I wanted to throw it out here.. What were everyone's favorite boss fights?

Daughter of the Cosmos, Father Gascoigne and Rom were mine. Also loved the concept of Witches of Hemwick, wish it had proved a bit more challenging though.

I really liked the way Amelia moved and looked all the dangling cloth looked good.
 

Brydo0

Neo Member
Ebrietas is the only boss that I feel like I have to " learn". The rest I could cheese or instantly melt with Tonitrus. Rom is a nifty design, and can take a few minutes to kill (if you aren't using Tonitrus. Otherwise he dies in like 12 hits.)

Exactly why I liked Ebrietas, it was challenging and varied. Most of her attacks were super quick leading to some heavy twitch dodging and finding the right moments to strike.

I think for Rom I used Ludwig's Holy Blade, great design as you said and challenging to not get hit. By the end when there are 30+ Spiders on screen it got pretty hectic and dangerous.
 

vwluke

Neo Member
Me and a friend were discussing beast form and this is what we have come up with


Hear me out

We know that lower insight causes the beast meter to raise faster. Father gasgcoine and the begger both wear wraps over their eyes and they both transform into beasts. (covering eyes means you dont see, or have insight)

We also know that one of the npcs you fight in the unseen village is naked, has covered eyes and also uses the beast claw.

What if going beast has something to do with 0 insight, beast runes, and using beast claw nude? Throw in beast pellets for good measure.
 

BeeDog

Member
Is there any lore reason why Forbidden Woods and Moonside Lake are not affected by the change in time of day (after beating Rom)? I figured it's because of game limitations/the game being unfinished, but still curious.
 

HeelPower

Member
They are by far the best developer to nail down tone and atmosphere.

The stories are always great too, with the exception of Dark Souls II which was a bit too hamfisted with "Hey, this item is from the other game, hey this soul is a great soul, hey if you didn't get it the first time NG+ will literally tell you this is the old soul of Izalith"

But yea, this is probably the coolest story yet, the twist halfway is something I wasn't expecting. Who know we aliens would be in a Souls game?

Yeah DS2 is the weakest.

But man BloodBorne is so heartbreaking.

There is something about the portrayal of human frailty in these games that just always gets me.Very morose and dark ,but also quite thought provoking.

When I saw the prostitute give birth at the cathedral it was such a sad and strange situation.
 

Auctopus

Member
So after killing the moon presence, you become the next "Great One". What are the general thoughts on the effect it has on Yharnam?

Also this is a bit OT related, but spoiler heavy so I wanted to throw it out here.. What were everyone's favorite boss fights?

Daughter of the Cosmos, Father Gascoigne and Rom were mine. Also loved the concept of Witches of Hemwick, wish it had proved a bit more challenging though.

Only in Nightmare of Mensis, a bit of the game left to go and haven't fought all optional bosses but Priest Gascgoine just sticks with me. Really well placed, challenging and fair fight.

Priest Gascgoine, Vicar Amelia, Cleric Beast & Micolash.

Shadow of Yharnam was my least favourite mainly due to frustration, can't stand banks quads.
 

StMeph

Member
Is there any lore reason why Forbidden Woods and Moonside Lake are not affected by the change in time of day (after beating Rom)? I figured it's because of game limitations/the game being unfinished, but still curious.

Moonside Lake is, ostensibly, another dimension or dream zone. I don't remember if the moon changes in the Forbidden Woods post-Rom though.
 
Is there any lore reason why Forbidden Woods and Moonside Lake are not affected by the change in time of day (after beating Rom)? I figured it's because of game limitations/the game being unfinished, but still curious.

The moon warps when you get to the college,it feels like another example of time not being correct in Yharnam. The first noticeable one being Old Yharnam is still burning.
 
Moonside Lake is, ostensibly, another dimension or dream zone. I don't remember if the moon changes in the Forbidden Woods post-Rom though.

Forest doesn't change, but it's a forest so it doesn't really receive much moonlight anyways. I chalk it up to simply an artistic choice to keep that shit spooky.
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
Anyone else thinks that the MP created the Dream to oppose the Nightmare Great Ones? It wouldn't be so surprising considering that the C'thullu Mythos have deities battling each other all the time.
 

Coconut

Banned
Anyone else thinks that the MP created the Dream to oppose the Nightmare Great Ones? It wouldn't be so surprising considering that the C'thullu Mythos have deities battling each other all the time.

Which ones are the nightmare great ones in this game?
 
Anyone else thinks that the MP created the Dream to oppose the Nightmare Great Ones? It wouldn't be so surprising considering that the C'thullu Mythos have deities battling each other all the time.

Hmm, intersting idea, but I'm gonna need some more stuff to back that up before I run with that.

It would explain why the hunt ends with the killing of the baby at the end..., purhapes MP was pulling strings so the next Great One wouldn't come to fruition.

Which is why when we eat and consume the cords, we are then hostile to MP, we are going to be the embodyment of the next Great One.
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
Where does it say that they are opposing other great ones?

It doesnt, I'm just speculating. But you have to ask that MP created the Dream for a reason. And ultimately the Dream Hunters goal is to destroy the Nightmare. At least this is how i'm interpretating.
 

Coconut

Banned
It doesnt, I'm just speculating. But you have to ask that MP created the Dream for a reason. And ultimately the Dream Hunters goal is to destroy the Nightmare. At least this is how i'm interpretating.

Id need to see so item description or something that would imply a schism or opposition between great ones. I'm of the opinion that most of the great ones come from the dimension referred to in game as the nightmare or that the nightmare is Yarnham far in the future.
 

Gun Animal

Member
Is it possible that Rom is Willem and the spiders his students, his body now an empty vessel? It would explain why Willem was braindead on the balcony. Also ties Migolash's dialogue with the description of the rune that Willem drops on death.
 
Is it possible that Rom is Willem and the spiders his students, his body now an empty vessel? It would explain why Willem was braindead on the balcony.

I think I remember reading or hearing how Rom was "given sight" or something. While Rom has status of a Great One, I wonder if he's actually a Great One. I mean, his status is literally Rom the stupid.

Great Ones needed a way to mask their presence, they could have used the dudes who made first contact like "hey, thanks for talking to us, we're gonna use your essence to make a being that masks your kind from seeing us, oh and you're gonna be brain dead"
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
I think I remember reading or hearing how Rom was "given sight" or something. While Rom has status of a Great One, I wonder if he's actually a god. I mean, his status is literally Rom the stupid.

Not necessarly. Vacuous has several different meanings. One of them being 'idle'; Which i think fits Rom better
 

Gun Animal

Member
I think I remember reading or hearing how Rom was "given sight" or something. While Rom has status of a Great One, I wonder if he's actually a god. I mean, his status is literally Rom the stupid.

An older (and more literal) definition of Vacuous is "empty of matter" and considering how many archaic words and spellings are used in BB (like spelling it Gaol instead of Jail) I think that's the intended use.

edit: honestly, you could devote an entire thread just to analyzing the etymology in this game.
 

Jaeger

Member
Godamn the lore and atmosphere of this game.

FROM is not only the best at gameplay but they're probably the best at stories too lol.

Agreed. This is seriously one of the best games I have ever played. I am engaged in this, and I want more.
 
God damn it.

Why the fuck didn't I read this shit earlier.

Madmans Knowlage: Skull of a madman touched by the wisdoms of the Great Ones.

Man, talk about foreshadowing this stuff, wonder what other stuff was giving off major hints early on in the game that most of us ignored.
 
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