Possibly the BB's universe version of Azathoth?
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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
Possibly the BB's universe version of Azathoth?
Zomba13
Member
Also it's full of stars (the cosmos) coming out of the skull and shaped like a slug (phantasm)
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Also it's full of stars (the cosmos) coming out of the skull and shaped like a slug (phantasm)
Lovecraft: The Game
Its much more Cthulhu Mythos: The Game. It owes a lot more to/borrows a lot more from the expanded Cthulu mythos that Lovecraft started rather than being true to the actual nature of his stories. The game doesnt really explore or rely on the same themes nor the same style of horror, it has some of the surface trappings but really takes more from later mythos writers like Lumley and Derleth (and the expanded "unified" mythos from Chaosiums RPG). The levels of gore and body horror in the game alone mark it as much closer to the work of later mythos writers as well as more obvious links to derivative "late period" cthulhu mythos material.
The Hunter has too much agency over themselves, their fate and the basic nature of the world theyre in. The Hunter has more or less full agency throughout. They are never powerless and are never robbed of either personal nor species agency, two elements prevalent in Lovecraft's horror work. They constantly confront the unknowable, defeat it (by punching it in the face) and move on to the next challenge. No matter the horror presented to them the player characters sanity is never questioned, it is the world that is presented as mad rather than the character. The basic play cycle of the game re-enforces this and most of the games mechanics are about empowerment.
The character also has a stable base of operations and a group of NPC's that confirms the characters agency and view of the world. All of this runs contrary to the existential horror brought about by mans insignificance on a cosmic scale which was the keystone of Lovecraft's horror. There's other core elements of the game that are clear odds with the core tenets of Lovecraftian horror, e.g. the empowerment one gains from madness/Insight. The Hunter suffer's no personal consequence no matter how "mad" they get, they simply see the true nature of the world which is at odds with both the treatment of insanity in Lovecrafts works and the "flow" if you will of information i.e. in Bloodborne you go "mad" and see the world for what it is whereas in Lovecraftian fiction you see the world for what it is and go mad. The idea of "seeing the world for how it truly is" owes a lot more to post-modern horror (and older stuff like Gnosticism) etc.
Similarly the interest the great ones/etc. take in humanity is entirely at odds with Lovecraft's original work where humanity simply wasnt important enough for them to even notice (the one exception being Nyarlathothep who was the only one of the Outer Gods to take an interest). In fact the importance of humanity in general to the setting is also at odds with these themes.
Dont get me wrong, the games great and I love the feel of the horror in it and its clear derivation from the Cthulhu mythos. I just dont think you can call it Lovecratian horror per se.
Its interesting to note that the in game description of the Insight stat "The Insight stat represents the depth of inhuman knowledge. Needed to ring special bell, but induces frenzy." is basically identical to the description of the Cthulu Mythos skill from the Call of Cthulhu rpg
Someone want to test this for me? I dont really want to be the one who has to do tests
Screw it, doing this for you guys
ARE YOU HAPPY
Primethius
Banned
Can I get a link to where ENB said that something more was there instead of just the Beast meter and pellets?
I want to believe but I feel like... I don't know. I guess the guide will reveal all.
I want to believe but I feel like... I don't know. I guess the guide will reveal all.
What guide is this? The official one?
theSlacker
Member
Check out the statues in the start of the church leading up to the Vicar Amelia fight.
He said it in a video.
Im going to test it, someone needs to tell me how to max my beast bar fast though....
Using the claws you get from the chalice dungeons and a beast pellet?
Zomba13
Member
He definitely hinted that there was something to them in a way like "maaaybe you should buy that guide I worked on." Or in a "I know what is going on here but won't tell you because I want you to buy that guide or keep watching my stuff in case I say something about it in video 30 or something".
Can't remember what video it was in though, it's when he first gets a pellet. How soon in the game is that?
piccio_ssl
Member
in which dungeon can i find the beast claws?
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Loran, Layer 2
piccio_ssl
Member
thanks a lot
GwyndolinCinder
Member
So in the isz dungeonyou come across a bell and spiders with human heads, are the bells how the church made contact with the great ones?
Yes, but that terrible moment when you realize you dont have the +50 beasthood rune :/
Beelzebufo
Banned
Who the hell is the guy that makes you sign the contract at the beginning of the game?
What the hell's up with the snakes?
What's the theme of this game? Fight your nightmares? Self control? Blood for blood?
What the hell's up with the snakes?
What's the theme of this game? Fight your nightmares? Self control? Blood for blood?
I'm still researching, but who are the Old Lords? They are clearly separate entities from the Great Ones.
The Watchdog Of The Old Lords (Chalice Dungeons)
Keeper of the Old Lords (Chalice Dungeons)
Gehrman.
The Watchdog Of The Old Lords (Chalice Dungeons)
Keeper of the Old Lords (Chalice Dungeons)
Gehrman.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Olds Gods vs Old Lords?
Who knows, we do know that the city was built on the ruins of an Old God, which was where the blood came from.
Zomba13
Member
Maybe the Pthumerian lords?
piccio_ssl
Member
i have it, but i must find those claws first
I can fill the bar, Im just doing it on enemies that hit like crazy, sooo i died at 70%
Don't his clothes look kind of scholarly/church-ish though? The guy in the intro.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Muscle Wizard
Banned
So do we become a baby old god at the "true end" after the Moon Presence fight?
Beelzebufo
Banned
Yeah I thought so too, but then I actually looked at Gherman and realized. Who the fuck is that lol.Cant be. This is Gehrman
This is Wheelchair Guy
I guess the rest of the game after the first scene isn't real. You imagine the beasts, the messengers, you create Gherman based on the wheelchair guy, and you keep imagining paleblood because that's the condition you have. Everything else is your imagination. That's why you have amnesia (even though you remembered your backstory and name before the transfusion) and how you made it isn't Yharnam in the first place.
Yharnam is actually just a very reputable healing city with weird styles.
Yeah, this is definitely all a dream.
Trophy says it.
Unless Wheelchair Guy is Gehrman in the "real world", though the "Its all a "real" dream!" is my least favourite way to interpret the game
Beelzebufo
Banned
I mean there are a lot of old dudes in wheelchairs. He doesn't have any connection to Gehrman haha.
Unless they have the same voice actor?
Do you ever find out what paleblood is? The way he mentions it, it sounds like it's your disease.
Karsticles
Member
I have posted how to max the bar several times:
1) Beast Claws.
2) Fire gem to reduce damage.
3) L2 spam on giants outside of Cathedral.
Okay guys- I tested for you with 0 insight
weird things to note
when i spent 95 insight at once, my bar was 60% filled and long. I dont know why.
If you use a pellet, you bar resets when it wears off.
My physical defense went from 244->97, and my attack went from 240->385
I couldnt find this. I did it a diff way XD
weird things to note
when i spent 95 insight at once, my bar was 60% filled and long. I dont know why.
If you use a pellet, you bar resets when it wears off.
My physical defense went from 244->97, and my attack went from 240->385
I couldnt find this. I did it a diff way XD
All dudes in wheelchairs are Gherman! So obvious to me now
Beelzebufo
Banned
That would be weird since you haven't seen Gerhman yet
She might be talking to the weirdo wheelchair guy who talks to you at the beginning though. Or maybe she's talking to the messengers, since you've already started dreaming at that point.
Oooh the whole game being a dream also explains why there's no "let's explain the world" opening a la Demon's and Dark Souls. There's no world for the voice to explain when the game starts because you haven't dreamed it up yet.
theSlacker
Member
The messengers, is another possibility. They are the ones that pop up and "find" you after all.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
Catching up with the thread while listening to this awesome ost track: Bloodborne Soundtrack OST - Gehrman, The First Hunter
So before I found the back entrance to Iosefka's clinic, I knocked on the door and she thanked me for sending a guy to the place and gave me an item (forgot if it was just a vial or something else) in return. I didn't send anyone to the clinic and as far as I know there isn't even a male character who you can send anywhere.
Who was she talking about?
Who was she talking about?
Cloud Strife
Member
So goood, been my study music all day
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
There is a male beggar in Forgotten Woods that you can send to Iosefka or the chapel.
So Gherman is basically the one enslaved by the Moon Presence (since he is the most powerful hunter) to recruit hunters and and shape them to be the most powerful in order for the moon presence to consume their essence and gain "power"?
That's why Gherman gets so pissed when you abuse your power, because that means he'll get replaced.
That's also why he feels bad for us and want's to kill us, so that we can be freed and forget it all and live in ignorant bliss (the Matrix much?).
I think this is why there are hunters all over battling eachother, to be the best/most powerful.
This is how I take the Gherman and moon presence relationship.
But god damn, this fucking story is just as deep and heart wrenching as Dark Souls. It's so deep, dark, emotional and thought-provoking that the possibilities are seriously endless.
There is just SOMETHING so humbling about humans being in an endless loop and greater beings using or tricking us for some great, divine and cosmic purpose. It's so dark and depressing, like Gwyn's story and replacing him.
I will say this though, I definitely did not reach the emotional height I did from Gherman's theme than I did with Gwyn's theme or even the Sif fight.
That's why Gherman gets so pissed when you abuse your power, because that means he'll get replaced.
That's also why he feels bad for us and want's to kill us, so that we can be freed and forget it all and live in ignorant bliss (the Matrix much?).
I think this is why there are hunters all over battling eachother, to be the best/most powerful.
This is how I take the Gherman and moon presence relationship.
But god damn, this fucking story is just as deep and heart wrenching as Dark Souls. It's so deep, dark, emotional and thought-provoking that the possibilities are seriously endless.
There is just SOMETHING so humbling about humans being in an endless loop and greater beings using or tricking us for some great, divine and cosmic purpose. It's so dark and depressing, like Gwyn's story and replacing him.
I will say this though, I definitely did not reach the emotional height I did from Gherman's theme than I did with Gwyn's theme or even the Sif fight.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Theres always one there,in the room you get the transfusion i assume she means that one. She also seems to forgot you later and asks again if you are indeed a hunter.
Yeah regarding the whole game being a dream, that was my immediate suspicion when the guy in the opening says "whatever happens, you may think it all a just a bad dream." Also, in the 'submit' ending which I saw earlier it seems like Yharnam is not all fucked up anymore, what with all the bells ringing? At least that's what I thought. So it would also fit with that.
I do hope it isn't the case though
I do hope it isn't the case though
But the pre-transfusion talk lets us know Yharnam exists in the world the "dreamer" comes from, unless we suppose Yharnam is oneiroic realm that one accesses via the blood. Or Yharnam is a "between" place akin to something like Leng / Kadath.
I think I prefer to think of Yharnam having a real existence in the world of Bloodborne that "the wheelchair guy" is from but all the blood/worship/shennanagins have made it a focal point for the dreams of the old ones and that all these overlapping dreams have warped the reality of it, or something, need to think on it some more.
Reminds me of a "Matrix" scenario, which ties into the whole "spider hiding all the lies from us".
We're basically being harvested while not even knowing.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I'm pretty sure Yharnam is just a really good boring medical city, everything else is a fever dream. Your idea is great, but it doesn't explain why the wheelchair guy disappears.
Like you just imagined what Yharnam looked like based on your nightmares. That's why you forget who you are too, it's a bad dream. The real Yharnam is nice.
Karsticles
Member
Step 1 of understanding this game:
Stop assuming dreams and reality are necessarily opposites, or mutually exclusive.
Stop assuming dreams and reality are necessarily opposites, or mutually exclusive.
Beelzebufo
Banned
They obviously are. That's why the wheelchair guy exists in one or not the other, and why beasts and messengers and dolls and shit exist in one but not the other.
Yharnam is a real place, hence you being able to visit the area of Hunters Refuge in the actual non-dream world. It also explains why picking up all those items (hair braid thing) and giving it to the doll back in the dream, she starts to say stuff like "what is this strange feeling of familiarity", etc like she's actually remembering her emotions and then cries and gives you an item.