Until the guide comes out and they two can be contrasted the ambiguity about the "officialness" of his opinion just muddies the water for me (Leaving aside the validity of authorial intent vs audience interpretation of course)
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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
Until the guide comes out and they two can be contrasted the ambiguity about the "officialness" of his opinion just muddies the water for me (Leaving aside the validity of authorial intent vs audience interpretation of course)
Yeah but it's still interesting to hear what he has to say. It'll make more sense when we know more. In the mean time I still wanna know what his thoughts are.
Indeed, its still interesting
Kojirospath
Member
Is there any significance in Rom not attacking you? It does not seem evil even striking it once, while summoning spiders, does not make it hostile. I wish I knew how to get the contact gesture before killing him. Might be possible or something.
I assumed it was a tie in to the whole vacuous thing. Do you keep your gestures in NG? You could try it then
Kojirospath
Member
Wort a shot. Anyone else on ng+ en route to Rom willing to try it?
Hmm maybe Gherman was waiting for Laurence to end it all or something like that?
There's some speculation that Laurence tried to become a Great One to fuck up the Great Ones from the inside, and Gehrman is killing hunters and restarting the hunt to give Laurence time to finish his mission.
If Laurence is the skull on the altar, then Gehrman doesn't realize Laurence is dead.
I really think we'll see Laurence DLC regardless. He seems a lot like Artorias: an important character that is strangely absent.
InternHertz
Member
Wait, you sure it was an "OLD GREAT one coldblood", and not just a "GREAT one coldblood"?
Did you perhaps use it? Did it give you 50.000 or 40.000 blood echoes?
I haven't seen the "old great" variant in my dungeon, and unless it was a root dungeon, we should have the same items :/ Problem is I have just expunged that dungeon and don't want to experience it again for no reason
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know what y'all are expecting from the guide but I'm pretty sure it's not gonna have a total breakdown of "okay, here's what's REALLY going on". These games are obscure for artistic reasons. I highly doubt the guide's gonna say "YO THIS IS LAURENCE'S SKULL FROM TOLD US 100%". Nah. If you're looking for definitive, 100% answers, you're not going to get them.
This game's lore makes me feel dense. I didn't have a problem grasping anything from the Souls games, but after a single playthrough of Bloodborne I feel as though I have more questions than answers. Or maybe I'm just craving more depth than the game provides...?
Does anyone have exhaustive insight into Vicar Amelia's lore?
Does anyone have exhaustive insight into Vicar Amelia's lore?
I think there's something I don't get about the third ending.
You're supposed to end the Nightmare when you kill the Moon Presence, right? but why you're still there after beating it? Should the nightmare be done?
Also, It kind of bothers me that they show the chaarcter all well standing up after beating the boss, and in the next scene you're something totally diferent. Like, how that happened? You don't even die, and suddenly, you're reborn.
I always though Gerhrman is just doing whatever the Moon Presence wants to accomplish. In the bad ending, you get grabbed by her/it (whatever that think is) and then you're shown as the new "Gerhman" so I assume what happens to the MC in the bad ending also happened to Gehrman once.
You're supposed to end the Nightmare when you kill the Moon Presence, right? but why you're still there after beating it? Should the nightmare be done?
Also, It kind of bothers me that they show the chaarcter all well standing up after beating the boss, and in the next scene you're something totally diferent. Like, how that happened? You don't even die, and suddenly, you're reborn.
I always though Gerhrman is just doing whatever the Moon Presence wants to accomplish. In the bad ending, you get grabbed by her/it (whatever that think is) and then you're shown as the new "Gerhman" so I assume what happens to the MC in the bad ending also happened to Gehrman once.
and any idea about the grave the Doll is seen praying at sometimes?
I suspect it's going to be the DLC's portal
yeah that was my line of thinking
are all the Great Ones even connected? They all look like different species to me
Ebrietas and the giant Smurf are obviously connected in a way, and Ebrietas was seen next to Rom's corpse.
but I dunno, how could one fuck with them?
I suppose our hunter did what no one could ever dream of doing by fucking wiping them all from existence "Science and blood spinning? I'll fucking KILL them all instead and transform into a slimy cosmic squid"
I suspect it's going to be the DLC's portal
yeah that was my line of thinking
interesting!
are all the Great Ones even connected? They all look like different species to me
Ebrietas and the giant Smurf are obviously connected in a way, and Ebrietas was seen next to Rom's corpse.
but I dunno, how could one fuck with them?
I suppose our hunter did what no one could ever dream of doing by fucking wiping them all from existence
"Science and blood spinning? I'll fucking KILL them all instead and transform into a slimy cosmic squid"They are also all around the forbidden wood.
That area is weird to me. You're there for like 2 seconds, and never need to return except for the girl's story.
I really expected there to be a whole sewer level terminating there. Just as there were sewer levels in prior Souls games. Especially considering the Yharnam is notably built on a river.
Why are those enemies there? I don't know: they're just freaky. They are also in water areas in the forbidden woods.
I think Great One is a collective term for extra-terrestrial (or extra-dimensional if you prefer) beings of a certain power level and "Insight", they share some common traits (an inability to reproduce, at least on earth/in our dimension) but they arent the "same" the way we commonly understand two members of the same species to be the "same". The term Great One seems to be a rather obvious analogue to the Great Old Ones in the Chtulhu Mythos who functioned similarly. The idea of "infiltrating" them doesnt really work for me because once you become like the Great Ones are for all intents and purposes you're as divorced from the human condition as they are and likely as obvilous to humanity because you realise humanity simply doesnt matter.
^Good points
but it's possible to still care about humanity, based on the True Ending's trophy description, no?
maybe we can make a connection between his story and Lawrence of Arabia? Or Laurence Fishburne in The Matrix. I wouldn't put it past From
but it's possible to still care about humanity, based on the True Ending's trophy description, no?
maybe we can make a connection between his story and Lawrence of Arabia? Or Laurence Fishburne in The Matrix. I wouldn't put it past From
The thing with Laurence isbthat he clearly play major role with event of the story. But somehow information related to him is so minimal. We don't know for instance why Willem feel betrayed while Laurence himself didn't so.
^Good points
but it's possible to still care about humanity, based on the True Ending's trophy description, no?
maybe we can make a connection between his story and Lawrence of Arabia? Or Laurence Fishburne in The Matrix. I wouldn't put it past From
I took the true ending to simply mean you'd fired humanity into a post-human state, which seemed morally neutral I suppose but didnt seem to really indicate you cared
Beelzebufo
Banned
I'm pretty sure the Celestial Emissary creatures come from those flowers, or leave them behind. You first see them in the forest, the cave beneath the clinic is littered with them, that's where you fight the boss, etc.
Because Willem taught people to not use blood I guess? Laurence took his knowledge but added in the forbidden parts.
Because Willem taught people to not use blood I guess? Laurence took his knowledge but added in the forbidden parts.
HORRORSHØW
Member
it is definitely "OLD GREAT..."and is a tier higher than "GREAT ONE..."Wait, you sure it was an "OLD GREAT one coldblood", and not just a "GREAT one coldblood"?
Did you perhaps use it? Did it give you 50.000 or 40.000 blood echoes?
I haven't seen the "old great" variant in my dungeon, and unless it was a root dungeon, we should have the same items :/ Problem is I have just expunged that dungeon and don't want to experience it again for no reason
InternHertz
Member
Grimløck;158845354 said:
Mh....question is, do I really want to re-do that dungeon just for that item...
Was it in the regular chalice and not a root one?
If you two found it there, it means I wasn't thorough enough...ugh
piccio_ssl
Member
That would be great.
CMojicaAce
Member
So what happens if you decide to sacrifice yourself? I refused because I didn't trust Gerhman.
He was trying to save you a terrible fate.
If you accept, he frees you from the dream and you (presumably) get the hell out of town.
If you refuse and kill him, you take his place and continue the cycle.
If you refuse and kill him after having consumed a bunch of grody great one bits, you become an ascendant worm. Woo.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I just realized Amygdala isn't the spider that actually picks you up lol. Is the voice you hear that asks Amygdala to have mercy on you the big spider then? Does that mean Patches appears as a giant spider in Yharnam, but as a man-faced spider in the Nightmare? Does that mean the other man-faced spiders are giant Yharnam spiders too?
I guess Amygdala is one of the Old Great Ones then? It's a girl, so it could be seen as a mother to all of the others. It has a statue at the Gaol lamp, suggesting its older. And it's only seen in the Nightmare, which I believe some of us believe may be in the past?
Also! A developer note in the Gaol says there is a "Paleblood" sky, and you see the shining moon. Pretty sure it refers to the moon.
I guess Amygdala is one of the Old Great Ones then? It's a girl, so it could be seen as a mother to all of the others. It has a statue at the Gaol lamp, suggesting its older. And it's only seen in the Nightmare, which I believe some of us believe may be in the past?
Also! A developer note in the Gaol says there is a "Paleblood" sky, and you see the shining moon. Pretty sure it refers to the moon.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
Has anyone tried switching to another(non-english) language when fighting with Micolash?
That "Ahh, Kos, or some say Kosm... Do you hear our prayers?" line is just puzzling...
Does he mean Cosmos? (Ebrietas, Daughter of Cosmos) or is it something else?.By saying the exact line in another language,we can assume that it wasn't just mispelled...
Btw found this article about a creepy message that only shows, when you try to change language into French...bug or intentional?
Bloodborne Has a Secret Creepy Message Hidden in the Title Menu
That "Ahh, Kos, or some say Kosm... Do you hear our prayers?" line is just puzzling...
Does he mean Cosmos? (Ebrietas, Daughter of Cosmos) or is it something else?.By saying the exact line in another language,we can assume that it wasn't just mispelled...
Btw found this article about a creepy message that only shows, when you try to change language into French...bug or intentional?
Bloodborne Has a Secret Creepy Message Hidden in the Title Menu
Beelzebufo
Banned
Ebrietas is daughter of the cosmos, as in the sky are cosmos are one. You could assume that Kos (or some say Kosm) is the Old One that represents the cosmos.Has anyone tried switching to another(non-english) voice language when fighting with Micolash?
That "Ahh, Kos, or some say Kosm... Do you hear our prayers?" line is just puzzling...
Does he mean Cosmos? (Ebrietas, Daughter of Cosmos) or is it something else?.By saying the exact line in another language,we can assume that it wasn't just mispelled...
Btw found this article about a creepy message that only shows, when you try to change language into French...bug or intentional?
Bloodborne Has a Secret Creepy Message Hidden in the Title Menu
Man Micolash has a cool voice.
Cant imagine it was mis-spelled, seems to reference a being called Kos/Kosm/Kosmos, who is implied to be Ebrietas father, along with his ability to procreate and the fact he uplifeted Rom one could speculate that he's of an order of being higher than Great One, basically Azathoth to the Great Ones Cthulhu
Karsticles
Member
I am actually unclear on the whole Amygdala thing. Some people talk like all of the creatures are called Amygdala, but that would be very odd. Patches talks to the one guarding the door as though its name is Amygdala. Then you fight a boss called Amygdala. Could it be the same creature, but it never actually dies? Or are they just generic creatures called Amygdala? I find it odd that this is the only "generic" boss in the game, if so. Nothing in the game refers to them as Amygdala as a whole, either.
Are we certain that Patches and the spider guy in the lecture hall are the same? They look really different, as you suggest.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Oh, I was talking about the giant spider in the chapel that sends you to the lecture hall. Unlike the boss Amygdala, it doesn't have tentacles. I guess they could all be called Amygdalas like you're saying? But then why doesn't the boss one have a special title or something haha. I've never actually seen Spider Patches in the Nightmare Frontier, just the lecture hall. The one in the lecture hall though says he's responsible for bringing you there which made me think he might be a giant spider in Yharnam. I think he's the same as the Frontier one because when you come around to the back of Spider Patches after clearing the frontier, he gets scared and apologizes.
I know it's a huge stretch, but if the spider head-human bodies was the Nightmare Avatar of the giant Yharnam spiders, it would explain why you can't see but can hear the Patches voice, and why the door guy takes credit for sending you there. I guess that could be tested by just killing him thoufh in the lecture hall lol.
That might not make any sense.
The one that's a boss definitely seems to be special though, it's the one with a statue in the Gaol, and j think most of the statues are tentacle-less actually.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
Either Micolash line is misspelled or it's "Ebrietas, Daughter of Kosmos".OR it's an entirely new name that starts with "Kos/Kosm".
We could see the names/actors in the credits to make sure...
No, it doesn't
Beelzebufo
Banned
Haha fair enough.Either Micolash line is misspelled or it's "Ebrietas, Daughter of Kosmos".OR it's an entirely new name that starts with "Kos/Kosm".
We could see the names/actors in the credits to make sure..
No, it doesn't
And I don't think "Cosmos" is supposed to be a creature/being. That's why its daughter of the cosmos.
I dont think its that cut and dry, it seems odd to assume Micolash's line is wrong all of a sudden. He mentions how Kos (some say Kosm) uplifted Rom, which would seem to place Kos apart from the other Great Ones in terms of potency. During the same tirade Micolash also mentions the cosmos in a manner where it could arguably be a synonym for Kos. This paints Kos as some kind of parallel to Azathoth, who shares a similar place as a symbol of the cosmos in the games inspirational materal. Given those elements it doesnt seem a stretch to see Ebrietas name as an implicit reference to her being the offspring of Kos.
Possibly Kos is one of the "Old Great Ones" as the game does mention "left behind Great Ones" in a few places so maybe thats what the great Ones we encounter in game are.
Yeah the things on the building look slightly different from Amygdala and dont get directly referenced, I assumed they were all "echoes" of the same Great One, in this case Amygdala. Bi(multi)-location doesnt seem much of a stretch for a Great One. Or possibly theyre meant to be Amygdala's offspring? Sort of Star-Spawn to her Cthulhu (though that seems unlikely given the games constant repetition of the fact that Great Ones only seem to have one offspring)
Aztechnology
Member
No one else is thinking possibly Amygdala is literally just the physical manifestation of fear in the dream? I mean the heads of the Amygdala are literally modeled after the one in the human brain as far as I can tell. It's possible that the Amygdala as a collective is just symbolically present to represent our growing level of fear as we gain knowledge.
Has anyone tried switching to another(non-english) language when fighting with Micolash?
That "Ahh, Kos, or some say Kosm... Do you hear our prayers?" line is just puzzling...
Does he mean Cosmos? (Ebrietas, Daughter of Cosmos) or is it something else?.By saying the exact line in another language,we can assume that it wasn't just mispelled...
Btw found this article about a creepy message that only shows, when you try to change language into French...bug or intentional?
Bloodborne Has a Secret Creepy Message Hidden in the Title Menu
Spanish dub also says Kos/Kosm.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I like that idea! But that still doesn't explain why one Amygdala is different from the rest, right?
Was the doll really Gherman's wife ?
Why would he say "You're free to use anything in the workshop,even the doll should it please you(whispering in a sinister manner)" at the beginning of the game though ?
Was he maybe out of his mind or is she not really directly related to him ? Did he simply cease to care about her after so much time and shit he's been through ?
Why would he say "You're free to use anything in the workshop,even the doll should it please you(whispering in a sinister manner)" at the beginning of the game though ?
Was he maybe out of his mind or is she not really directly related to him ? Did he simply cease to care about her after so much time and shit he's been through ?
I think it's a joke, he says that when she's inanimate so we assume he's being pervy, then when she comes to life and let her level us up we find out what he actually meant.
If It is indeed a joke,then its really out of character.
.
A fromsoft game having placed someone as a joke that was to signify hes weird or pervy?
Nope. Nooope.
S-sorry, just not seeing it >.> FROM puts way too much detail into everything for that.
I see this repeated from time to time, but luckily it isn't true.
I'd probably have to add "amateur self-lobotomizing" to my interests if it were.
I find the most awkward part is when youre having a conversation with someone and the amygdala sticks its foot out the left ear and its tentacles out the right